(upbeat music) - It is Knock Central on a Tuesday post game seven. Satyar Shah with Biknazar coming to you live from the Kintek studio. Kintek, Kanda's favorite orthotics provider, powered by thousands of five-star Google reviews, sore feet, what are you waiting for? A lot coming up on the show today, Yannick Hanson, making a appearance on our show, coming up next segment, and we're gonna talk to Irfan Gaffar a bit later on, Dan Richeo, a short stint on the IR, but hopefully he's gonna be back soon. - He wanted to watch the Canada Peru match. - Yes, and we watch- - I joke, I joke. - Well, I mean, I wouldn't put a past, Dan. - He's definitely tweeting about it. - Yeah, he is tweeting about it, but yeah. Listen, you can be on, you know, not feeling 100%, but you still, you know, be able to watch things. - When you're sick, do you still tweet? - I try not to, I don't. - I don't, because then I'm like, "Oh, people are gonna think I feel good." - I know, that's what I'm saying. He's out here tweeting about it. - Yeah, I usually, I try to avoid it as much as possible, usually, when I'm not feeling well. So, and here we are, like going after Dan Richeo's show as an Instagram. - Yeah, I feel bad. Nevermind, could you? - Yeah, well, Riche, get well. I mean, I was just trying to say he'll be back soon. - All right, we have a lot to get to today, because, well, the Stanley Cup was handed out yesterday. There's a smattering of news around the Bank of Reconox, but also some trade, some action, some movement in the National Hockey League. So, let's get to the Open. (dramatic music) - Welcome to the Open. - Oh, that's your home! Are you too good for your home? Answer me! - So, the Stanley Cup was awarded game seven between the Edmonton Oilers and the Florida Panthers. The Panthers, after getting to the Stanley Cup final last year and losing, they win it this time around. And, honestly, when you look at the ratings, it was a massive hit. - Yeah. - You know, in the US and in Canada, the average audience in Canada was 7.55 million, million, in the US it was like 7.66 million. So, - 7.7. - 7.7. - 7.7, even better. - 15 million Canadians to an end. - To an end to watch it, that's like a 40% of the population, essentially. - So, it's a fantastic evening, right? And a Stanley Cup doesn't come home to Canada. I don't care. I know you don't care. Some care. - Not at all. - If you're an Oilers fan, of course, it's tough to lose in game seven. - What a great outcome. - The Oilers fans lost twice in 14 days. Great outcome. They had to come to the realization, "No, we're not gonna do it." And then, the hope comes back. - And then you lose again. - Confirmation we lost. - Which one do you think hurts more? Definitely the second one. - Oh, definitely. - 'Cause, like, you get to game seven, like that one 100%. - That's like, walking up Mount Everest, slipping and falling 400 feet, getting back near the top and falling again. - Yeah, and it's like, what? - That's brutal. - It is brutal. It's tough. It's a tough one too. - You've got all the injuries. You're like, you know what? I persevered and I made, no! - But I thank Edmonton for making it into our memorable series. It brought a good game seven, and I think it was good for the game. - It was an awesome game. - It was an awesome game. - I know there's concerns. We're like, oh, McDavid, dry something in show. That was an awesome game that was played at such a high-- - 100%. I completely agree with that. The only thing I felt like was an unfortunate missed opportunity was Conor McDavid not having a big game seven. - Sure. - You know, you had so many eyes on him, new eyes, but not just because of new eyes, but these are the moments legends are made. I mean, we were talking on the show yesterday, and the reason I decided to bet on Edmonton to win the game was, hey, I'll go with the story guy. If Conor McDavid is gonna do Conor McDavid things, the story is too good. - It's too good, right? And I'd rather bet on the story and want the story to happen to some extent, even though I don't want Edmonton to be like, you know what? That story to me is compelling. And like, that's how you gain immortality in the National Hockey League. If you're the greatest player of a generation that has a magnificent game seven and you win, like, it's done, it's over in terms of like, how high you're gonna be on that pedestal. And it just wasn't there. - I've been using a phrase recently on the show. Life's cruel. They're like, yeah, that story sounds great. Dude, life's cruel, man. - Yeah, I know how to say it. - Life just kicks you in the teeth sometimes. It's like, oh, that cool story, that would've been awesome. Doesn't happen. - Life's cruel. - Life is cruel. And it's too bad. That's my only gripe about, not even gripe, 'cause it's like, it's not like McDavid wasn't trying. It wasn't like McDavid didn't want to ring it. - 25 minutes of ice time last time. - Like, what else can you ask of the guy? And they had a couple of chances where he was in the middle of it. - Boy. - If it goes in, right? - He's gonna be thinking about that one for a long time. 'Cause you know, he just does that in sleep. - 100%, right? So that's my only real big unfortunate part of the game. 'Cause otherwise, I thought it was a tremendous display between two teams for the Stanley Cup in a winner take all situation. The other thing I was thinking about was, like what are our big takeaways? Did you have one takeaway about generally speaking hockey today or what it takes to win a Stanley Cup? - Yeah, I like to do the final four kind of breakdown, 'cause it's chaos after that, right? I think there's lessons you can do from Dallas, Edmonton, Rangers, and Florida, right? And maybe too often we get a bit too myopic about the one team that wins and what's the way to get there. But it is an interesting final four, 'cause it's kind of choose your own adventure of how you want to build moving forward. I don't know if there's a common trend amongst them, because it's free agency victories for the Rangers. It is trade victories and slow build with Florida. It is tank and succeed with Edmonton, and it's kind of do the draft and develop with Dallas. You can go either which way, but with Florida winning it and confirming that it's them, I think one of the things I'm willing to kind of ease up on is goaltending spending. I'm a big proponent that you want to limit the spending of what your goalie is. And we've talked about Dr. Demko and the value of a five million dollar deal. I'm big of keeping that number under like eight, nine percent of the cap. Babrowski, $10 million. Plus they got Spencer Knight, right? They spent a lot of money on goal and they won. - It's an oversimplification, what I'm about to say, but I think in many ways it's true. It's, you're right, every team did it differently. There's no real rhyme or reason for which one you should follow. The one that makes sense to me and more than anything is you had a plan and you had full buy-in into it. - Yeah. - And then you filled holes to support your plan. And I think that's the most important thing here about how the game gets played. All of these teams play the right way, but any one of these four finalists, like even Edmonton, for all the time. - They maximize their version of what they are. - Right. Now Edmonton, even Edmonton, who we saw how horrible they were to start the season. By the end of the season and by the playoffs, they were stout defensively. They played a great team game and their PK was the best in the playoffs. There wasn't a single team you would say was flawed in terms of how they played the game. They may have played it differently, but they weren't flawed in terms of an overall team game. - Yeah, like they had flaws within the roster. - Sure. - Everyone has to, of course. - Of course. - In terms of the plan, you didn't look at any of those teams to say, man, these guys don't know how to play the right way. - I like that too. - I think it better system, need a better structure. You gotta play, they executed their style and they had a chance to win. - And I like the diversity too. I don't like it when it's just monochromatic across the board, which is something I hate about the NBA right now. Like everyone's just trying to be 3 indeed right now. It just like every game looks the same. - Yeah. - I like the element of almost like old school UFC. It's like, well, let's take this fighting style versus this fighting style and let's see how it works. I like that these teams play different. I like that the Florida Panthers, yeah, they keep up a lot of breakaways at times of the series, but they were aggressive on the fourth tier. - They were 100%. And I think even a team like Vancouver, for instance, they were not quite as expansive in how they played compared to some other teams, but they probably defended and protected the middle of the ice as well or better than any team in the playoffs this year. I think Florida has pretty close high up there too, right? And obviously they win the Stanley Cup, but I think Vancouver did a tremendous job with that, where they lacked both that overall pressure and that generation. But obviously they were right there, lost by one goal in Game seven in East Edmonton, you know? In a different universe, do the Canucks get to the Cup final, right? I'm not saying they're gonna win it, but can they get there? When you lose by one goal in Game seven of a second round, you're allowed to entertain those ideas. - I think so too. - But the other thing that stands out to me too is every team that wins has gone through some struggle to get there. Florida has gone through years of they lost against Tampa, they lost in the Cup final last time they won this time. Edmonton didn't win it, but how much failure have they had to get there before? And just go through the list of Cup winners all the way back to the Pittsburgh Penguins winning the Cup in '09 after they lost at Red Wings in 2008. The only outlier team to me is the Blackhawks, 'cause they went from like conference final one year to winning the Stanley Cup, and then, you know, reeling off their kind of dynasty. But LA went through missing the playoffs, losing to Vancouver, having a series lead, coughing up other playoffs before. The Boston Bruins win in 2011. The Boston Bruins coughed up a three nothing series lead against the Flyers in 2010. And it was like, these guys are cooked, these guys are losers, they're never gonna win. This is the most embarrassing moment in hockey history, and they rebound the next year and win the Stanley Cup. The Tampa Bay Lightning gets swept in the first round against the Columbus Blue Jack, 'cause after having a historic president's trophy winning season, they get swept. Every team has to go through a level of pain to get there. The question is, has Vancouver gone through enough pain to really be able to close the deal the next time they're there? - Yeah, I think so. I think these guys in particular have, right? There's a mini bubble run, which we can discount, but then the season's in between. It's been unusual pain, and then, throwing a, being there for game seven. It's, I don't love the, you gotta lose to win idea. I'm a big fan of, if you're qualified, you've got the experience necessary. If you don't, your work will show no matter what. But I think that they've taken enough steps that, it's time, it's time for them to ascend to the next stage pending what the organization can do. - Well, that's gonna be the big thing. I heard you snickering, you're laughing at the Dunbar Lumber Texting in box. - I love it, yeah. - 656.50. A lot of reaction here, our pond says, the team Vancouver is most similar to it is Florida. Smart management inherits a team after crappy management spell. Look at how many trades, signings, transactions. They won, getting guys with Upside, Montor, Reinhardt, Bennett, Verhagie, Forsling, and so on. That's a good point too. - Yeah, I bet most teams would like to be the Dallas version where it's your Johnson, your Stankovins, your Robertson's, your Hins, your Auttingers. Obviously, there's- - 100%. - Band and say again, but you're right. Like, they're probably shaping up most to be a team that was kind of a sleeping giant and it was a term that I used to say and it makes sense for Vancouver too 'cause you and I chatted a lot too of when that management coaching change happened, it was an attractive job. A lot of people would love to have stepped in to say, well, I've got Patterson and Hughes and Demko already sorted it out and I'm taking over this team. All I really gotta do is deconstruct what's here and then build back up. - Yeah, it's not a full deconstruction. It was just like on parts of it and this is the other part of it. - Deconstruct? - Deconstruct, yeah. - And then you build it up afterwards. But in terms of how to build a team and this is something that we debated quite passionately on these airwaves about a year and a half ago, a year ago, two years ago. And I'm with you, I think in an ideal world, who would like to have the youngest roster possible, the highest picks possible, the most cap space possible? Sure, you'd love that and you'd love to build a team through the draft and in an academic way, that's the idealistic way of doing so. But what did you say about life just about 10 minutes ago? - It's cruel. - And the reality of life is the idealistic academic way is usually not the way, it's just not how it goes, but that's not the only way. And yes, you'd love to be able to open up a five to 10 year window, but it can't just be like, hey, we have to have a 10 year dynasty or nothing. It's like, that's a very hard, you know how hard it is to have a 10 year dynasty? You have to hope that you build something that evolves and blossoms into that over time, but the foundation always has to be better players and more star players. And I think when we look at where Vancouver's going as a team now, to me the question shouldn't be, can they fill out the roster and find good help? Can you find difference makers? They need more difference makers. That's where the Canucks lack in comparison to those teams that were top of them, especially as we see right now with a guy like Lindholm who added to that level, looking like he's not gonna be here next season. - Yeah, I know people text into the show when I'm on from three to four, and I'm sure you have been talking about Jake Gensl a lot these past two months. - Have we? - Yeah. - Like, I know it sounds ridiculous, but to me, there might not be a number where I'm uncomfortable with. For Gensl, like a realistic number. Like obviously you're not gonna go $12 million. But there's a thing to me where it's just, if like $10 million, I know it sounds a lot. Like that sounds reasonable to me because I think there's a reality that he gets $9.3 million, $9.5 million anyways. And I know it's been brought up a lot here recently. It's like, oh, do they have to pay a little bit more? Maybe it's Canada tax, whatever it is, just to bring him in. I look at that and I say like $10 million doesn't sound outrageous to me, yeah, it might be the highest bidder. But what other recourse do you have here to go get that level of player into your roster? - Yeah, listen, I'm with you. I think there's always a number. The question is, and I know you talked about this in the past too, signing her own it now to 7.25. Does that not impact how high you can go? - It does. - So how high can you go as 10 the number for you then? - Like that's like honestly probably pushing it. - Like what's the number, like is it? - Like I would still do it. - Yeah. - Because I'm trying to figure out the rest later, yeah. - Yeah, I think it's just easier to say like, I can get one great guy, or I can get, and by the way, I'd rather be right on the one great guy than try to be right on four different players. I think that task is way harder. Saying like, wait, the $5 million of Nebraska and you know, a short-term deal on a Steven Stamp Coast and Tyler Tofoli, like one of those might not work. Two of those might not work. And now you have two problems here. I'd rather just risk it on a Debrask, to be honest. - Yeah, no. - Or sorry on a Jake Genssel, to be honest. - Yeah, I'm with you. The question is, how far is Vancouver willing to go? Elliot Freeman had an update today on the 32 Thoughts podcast. And here is what Elliot had to say about Jake Genssel, especially how it pertains to Vancouver. - I had someone tell me there's a lot bubbling under the surface there. And that there are some really good teams that you wouldn't think could do it, that are wondering, how can we do it? - I'm trying to think of where I want to go. - So, hang on a second, that's what I was doing too. Like, like I wondered about Kings. You know, they cleared up a little bit of cap room. - Yep, they did. - With camper. But, you know, Carolina's still around there. I really don't know that Vancouver's going to pull this off. But, what this guy said to me is, there are some teams out there that want to know if they can get Genssel, because they want them, they're good teams, but it might mean they have to perform some surgery. - Let me throw a name out at you. - Okay. - Who's always in and around it? - You're going to say Vegas. - Bingo, where we're heading. - I don't know, you know, I honestly, I don't know. The one thing someone said to me about Vegas is, you're right, they're always around it, but you have to figure an Eichol extension. 'Cause he's two years away. So, everything you do, you have to do with the lens of that. But, you know, I'm not saying no, I'm not saying yes, I'm starting to work on this a little bit, but that's what someone said to me. There are good teams floating around him that are like, we want to know, like they said, don't be surprised if a team you're not expecting tries to trade for his rights to see what it's going to take. - Oh, I can see that, yes. - And what surgery they have to do. - That's Eliot Friedman and says he's not sure Vancouver can pull it off. Now, I mentioned last week and I reiterated at that point yesterday, the Canucks don't feel like they're favorites. They kind of felt like a lot of the discussion a week or so ago about, hey, a lot of stuff with Vancouver and it looks like Vancouver has an edge here, was to their interpretation of it, not how they felt. So, I don't think what Eliot says says the Canucks are out, 'cause I don't think the Canucks are out. I mentioned this yesterday too, I don't think the Canucks are out on Jake Hansel. The question just is, are they going to be able to go as deep as some other teams might be willing to go? - The thing is, that sounded like a lot of ifs too, of like teams that they got to do some major surgery before they try to sign Jake Hansel. - Yeah, that's an obstacle. - It is. Well, they still have to figure that out, which is not easy to do, but one team that did figure it out is LA. - Yeah, so now I would throw LA back into the mix of, hey, they can, and then look at some very attractive destination and all that. So, they're a challenger all of a sudden, but I don't lose optimism from that clip there. I think it was just, if the Canucks can get into the room, that's my big thing, is can the Canucks get in the room to make a pitch to Jake Hansel? And if that's the case, that to me is the tough bit. And at that stage, then it's kind of on you. You can't go in there with like a $7.75 million offer. - Well, hey Jake, you're not serious then. - Yeah, exactly. - You're not serious then. - If you're allowed in the room, and Jake Hansel's actually considering you, then that me tells me that there's a number that he would probably say yes to. - Yeah, the question is that if the number, like if-- - Sure, yeah. - Let's say that-- - Does another team come up to match? Like there's all sorts of complications with that. - But let's say somebody offers him 9.5, and then he says for me to come to you, it's not 9.6, it's like you have to go to 10, or something. And I would guess the Canucks are not comfortable going to 10. I think nine might be a number they're willing to go to, and I'm not into reporting this, I'm just saying. Like, I can see maybe nine, I don't know if I see 10. And I think if the discussion gets to 10, but one thing I always think about too is, we always have these discussions, and generally speaking, the guy doesn't get quite as much as what he gets talking about, right? Like, Tavar is with the exception, he got 11. - If I was like planning out my board right now, I would be preparing as if he's gonna cost 10. And if it's any-- - Right. - Penny less than that, I was like, all right, we got one more chance to get some other guy. And if it comes out to eight, eight, five, or something like that, then you're thrilled and over the moon. I know we'll talk to Yannick here in a bit, but I imagine Yannick would probably say closer to like eight million dollars, probably closer to that JT number, is probably somewhere he would love to live in if it was to bring in Jake Hansel. But I would live in the world that it might cost 65, 70 million dollars. - Which is a lot of money. So the question is, how deep is Vancouver willing to go on Jake Hansel? And we'll see what happens on his front. We saw a couple of trades today, both by the Detroit Red Wings. First was a prospect trade, a bit of an odd one. Andrew Gibson got a second round pick. Puss, who was the other prospect? - Nastenen was a fitness prospect. - Andrew Gibson. - Yes. - Was the one going to Nashville, and then Jesse Kiskinen? - Kiskinen, yeah. - In a second round pick. - To Detroit. - To Detroit. - With us, yeah. - And that second round pick got immediately flipped. - Yes, Gibson is a talented right hand defenseman, 6-4 played in the O last year, had a good season. Second round pick in 20-23. They have a few guys on the right side, Morissider, he's pretty good. And Sanding Palika is another guy they have, so maybe they felt he was expendable. But they flipped that pick and moved Jake Wollman and his $3.4 million salary this year and next year, left the defenseman who had 12 goals this past season, just to move off the salary. So $6.8 million in cash for a capable player cost a second round draft pick. - Yeah, I know there's varying opinions on Jake Wollman. Some people view him as a really star level defensive demand. And some people view him as what we see today, that you got to package him with a pick to get out of the money. - I don't think some people, I think that's a reflection of the league. I think if anybody actually valued Jake Wollman, they would have got him for free. - I just feel like there's a big range of opinions on Jake Wollman. - I think, you know what, you're right, but I think that's all external. - Yeah, I think when deals like this happen, it's a complete reflection. - But I think Steve Iserman really stunned. - Listen, I think Steve Iserman was a brilliant hockey player, no doubt, right? He was brilliant with Tampa Bay. I don't know what he's doing with Detroit. Like I really don't get the whole Detroit hype. The Iser plan in Detroit is really going well. So here you are, and this is after an off season where they spent stupid money on kind of average players. So now you feel like this early in your build, you have to move a second round pick, move a contract, 3.4 million, that to me, it's a reflection of like, to me, how poorly things have gone, that you have to sacrifice a good prospect for a team that's not even a playoff team yet, that's had years of rebuilding, high draft picks, tons of draft picks, cap space galore, and you're already paying off, paying picks? - It feels like it's deeper than just like, oh, we don't, because it's not even a big owner, it's contract, 3.4 million on a functional D-man. Like at worst, he can be your third pairing D-man, at worst, he's not, I know there's a range of pinions, but I don't think he's bad. 3.4 is like, okay, maybe he just doesn't like the gritty. So you know, I gotta get this guy out of the organization, we can't be grittying, we can't be a team that's dancing on the ice when we can't make the playoffs. So I was stunned, and to be honest, like a lot more team should have been on this. A lot more team should have been on this to drive that second round pick down, just to save themselves something, I was floored when I saw that. - Yeah, it's surprised by it too, the quick take away on the Canucks, if you think moving the K-F, you'll see that deal, and that's a defense man, lesser money. You know, it's just, the cost of moving the K-F may be more than a second round pick, if you're comparing it to that. He's owed 9 million, there's 6.4 million, 6.8 million total for Jake Walman that he's owed. The other news today, Dylan Demello, gets 4.9 million over four years. It's nearly 20 million total cash for a 32 year old defensement, 31 year old defensement. - Demello was 31. - 31 year old defensement, I liked Demello a lot, but this was his one big year, where he played over 20 minutes, he had 28 points, was very good defensively. It shows you for even guys that are, what, second pair of guys in his 30s, like you're talking 5 million. Like it's not gonna be cheap, righty defensement on free agent market. - It's a little bit of inflation on the Chris Tannev deal that he signed in Calgary. Tannnev got 5.52% of the cap and Demello gets 5.57. So it's just a bit of inflation to where we were handful of years ago, when Tannnev was also age 31. - Yeah, so yeah, it shows you where the market's going for defensement. You saw Jalen Chatfield get 3 million per season. He played 15 minutes per game this past year. And hey, I think he's a good player. It's not gonna be cheap. So even if the connects let their free agents go, you're still gonna have to pay quite a bit and take a risk somewhere to be adding players to improve your roster for next season. And it's not going to be easy. All right, it's at the Arshah with Bic Nizar and NHL draft coverage is brought to you by Oxygen, yoga and fitness, not your typical yoga studio. And NHL draft is coming up on Friday and Saturday. We have full coverage coming up here on Canucks Central throughout the first two, the two days of NHL draft, which is Friday and Saturday. Now coming up on the other side, we are gonna talk to Yannick Hanson. That's next on Sportsnet 650. Hey, it's Mike Alford and Jason Bruff. Join us for Alford and Bruff in the morning weekdays for 6 to 9 a.m. on Sportsnet 650. Or on demand anytime through your favorite podcast app.
