What's up you guys, Sean Ross Sapp. Welcome to Fightful. Here with a name you know, you know him has a few different names. Right now you're going to know him. I assume it's Donovan Dijak moving forward. Donovan Dijak that's correct, yep. Donovan Dijak, you know, before we get into the real meat of this, it's very funny to me that WWE is often known for chopping off people's names and making them as simple as possible. And they went and added like extra syllables to yours when you first showed up. Yeah, I, I couldn't tell. Well, I can tell you, I guess now. He's there. Yeah, you can tell. Yeah. So when I first came into WWE in 2017, my last match on the indies was as Donovan Dijak, which by the way, it was a, a wrestling observer newsletter five star match with Keith Lee at PWG in case you're unfamiliar with the work of Donovan Dijak. But so I came into WWE and my first few times, they, for whatever reason I wasn't on TV for like six months, it was very, that was at a time when they were kind of loading on like in detail. Like I came in with Undisputed Era and Leo Rush and so there's a bunch of people who were kind of ahead in line of me. So I, so I kind of got put on the back burner for a little bit. But once I did make it on TV, they debuted me as Chris Dijak, which is my real name. It's a funny story about that. I was standing in full sale and the, the Tron was like coming up with a thing and it like flashed up and said Dijak and I was like, Oh, just Dijak. And then it slid down and said Chris and I was like, Oh, my real name is Chris, but almost nobody calls me Chris. Like my wife calls me Chris and my mom calls me Chris and that's pretty much the end of the list. Other than that, most people, at that point, most people called me Dijak with a few people calling me Donovan, but yeah, almost everybody called me Dijak. So I was okay with that. But then the Chris came up and I was like, Oh, not in wrestling barely cracks the top three of your bad wdb names that I want, I've had a lot. So so I learned, I made a, this was back at a time when for whatever reason in NXT, you had to like, bide your time and really wait and make a bunch of pitches and nothing happened quickly. For me anyway, for most people who weren't like a, like a top, like a ring of honor world champion or something like that. So so I made a bunch of name pitches over the course of, I think it was over a year that I was in ww which is a long time in the grand scheme of things, especially when you're barely on TV and you're just at the performance center training every day, it's just the days just drag on. And I'm like 30 at this point, you know, I'm 30 years old. I'm in like the prime of my career, I'm like, let's get this thing going please. So finally, we settled on dog Dominic die Jacobic, which was how did you settle on that is what I want to know the extra syllable was not my choice. It was I'm going to try to keep names out of this as best I can. We all know who it probably was. The thought process being that I have a Croatian heritage, die Jack, the root of die Jack is deoc. And we were having conversations about how can we make this sound more European. The thought process being like a steep Amy Ochich kind of thing where it's like, you think he's going to be this sort of like European Ivan Dragunov sort of Ivan Drogo. Yeah, Ivan Drogo. Yeah. Drogo. Yeah. You combined them, which they kind of did to you. Right. Yeah, exactly. And then you hear me speak and obviously I just have an American accent, so that would be the kind of the mix of the of the of the feeling there. So yeah, I was cool with Dominic. I liked that die Jack was still incorporated. I thought Dijakovic was a mouthful. I thought seven syllables was way too long for a WWE name, but that's what was kind of presented to me. And I was like, sure, please just put me on TV, please, so they did. And then from there, we progressed to T bar, well, we will be talking about this. I'm very excited to the Croatian person that I think of is Mirko Philipovich, but they never call him that. People just think his last name is Cro-Cop because he was a Croatian cop. And they were like, that's easier, but was either like, you know what, let's make this as difficult as human. Yeah, I took I took some some inspiration from Cro-Cop more aesthetically than anything else, right? Because I'm not, you know, shoot fighting people or beating anyone up. But in terms of the look and the aesthetic, I stole some of the Croatian patterns and stuff like that. I tried to do more kicks and and can I swear? Yeah. Of course you can. Fix and shit. Shit. Now I can swear. Oh, that's a good feeling. But yeah, that was kind of the general idea with that. I think it grew on people, right? Like by the end of the Dijakovic run, most people were calling me Dijakovic as opposed to Dijak and then even obviously with the T bar switch, everyone was like, what the fuck, you know, please just call him Dijakovic. And then even a little bit after I switched back to Dijak, there was like a three or four month buffer there where people were like, I miss Dijakovic. We want Dijakovic back. And I was like, I don't think you do. I think you'll like this version better. T bar, I see when that name came up, I could have sworn that was the name of like a streets of rage guy that you just beat up, you know, the one with like the mohawk that you run along and beat up. I swore it was like a name from that. And obviously this is the stuff everybody wants to hear about, not the stuff that you announced this week. I don't want to hear about your name changes. Any pushback on your behalf, and I mean, listen, I know you're not trying to name names, but listen, some of those names might not be there. Some of those names can't hurt you anymore, not of a Dijak. A little bit more open to speak at the behest of him. So, so yeah, we got, I mean, that's a long story in its own. The whole thing, God, the whole thing is such a long story. Can I tell you what I heard about Retribution initially and see if it was right? Yes. Very rarely on the investor calls does Vince McMahon, did Vince McMahon ever get pressured about viewership or creative. And in the heart of the pandemic, he was asked, what are you doing? There's another company that is out there doing creative stuff. What are you going to do? How are you going to bring up these numbers? And I heard that Vince hastily pitched Retribution right after that group with no idea who would be in it. I don't have any anecdote to prove that being true. That was never told to me. But if that were true, it would not surprise me even slightly. The whole feel of it was we don't know. I know they didn't know because I was there speaking to him about it. So, this is such a long story and I'm going to try to condense it as much as I possibly have. Hell no. Don't condense it. Make our transcriptionists do that work. Okay. I'll try my best, man, and the timeline is going to be so fucked up. So it's 2020, right? We're coming off, Portland takeover, me and Keith have this great feud. I don't have a real solid sense of what the booking, right? Nobody in WWE has a super solid sense of the booking or the trajectory of where things are going, especially Talon. Maybe those in charge do, but Talon, even the top guys, have to get a general idea, but nothing set in stone, right? So it seems like we're building to a triple threat at takeover, wherever it would have been that year. Tampa, maybe. Tampa Bay, the WrestleMania takeover, which back then was on par with one of the top takeovers. I think SummerSlam was maybe the top, but which SummerSlam that you were supposed to be in Boston too. That would have been awesome, but that didn't happen. So I have all this brand new gear for it, which no one's ever seen, right? I did. I've released a few pictures of this, but it's all sitting in my basement, just this beautiful, like $2,000 worth of gear that says die Jacobic. It's got a big, it's modeled after, who's the emperor guy from Gladiator? I didn't watch, I know who you mean, but I didn't watch the movie. It's character, yeah, he's whatever his name was, but he has this like white thing, like this leather, white suit of armor that just looks awesome. And I have all of that for like entrance gear and it's just, it's beautiful. It cost me a fortune. I never used it because I didn't have a time to use it because takeover got canceled and shifted the USA network. Oh, yeah. Gastrophe. So yeah, COVID hits disrupts everything. I start getting, I'm trying to remember again, because this was four years ago, but I start getting like a, maybe not nobody like told me, but I start getting like a feel like people start talking to me more like I was like in the past as opposed to the future, if that makes sense. I sort of feel like more of an accessory than NXT. So I was like, oh, this is interesting. Like the, you know, the people involved in the creative department and stuff like that. So I'm like, oh, I wonder if the plan was to do something at takeover and that got shifted and maybe them, because usually guys got called up in the raw after WrestleMania that used to be like kind of when it would happen. Not so much anymore. Now we do it. I mean, that's a whole new story, but now it's more in the draft and stuff like that. But back then it used to kind of happen after the raw after WrestleMania. But I thought maybe there was something happening around then, but the whole timeline was screwed up and shifted around again, all of Raw is now at the PC for some reason and like there's no crowd and it's just very odd. Long story short of that portion, I get notified maybe a little bit before after I wrestled Johnny Gargano in a Gargano had just started being a heel with Candace. They had formed the way or like the bare bones of the way or something, but I was the first guy he wrestled as a heel in that run. So this was me turning babyface basically, because I had some back and forth, but ultimately this is my first like really solid babyface run, but yeah, I got notified at some point in that window that I was getting called up to raw and I was like, oh, great. This is wonderful. This sort of never really happened, because I started going to and again, this is such a period of confusion in WWE. >> You didn't wrestle for like on NXT for a couple of months after that. >> Yeah, there was a couple of months. >> Yeah, there was a couple of months window there, which is funny in hindsight, it feels very much like what I just went through. Whatever I get called up, it's just a fucking catastrophe for some reason. Everybody's heads just start spinning like, oh my God, but yeah, so yeah. I got called, I remember I got called back to NXT. Even though I've been called up and I had like shown up to raw, but it was weird because we were already showing up to raw because we became the fans at some point, like NXT talent with a crowd, but we're like off camera. And then there's this weird mixed message. And Heyman was writing the show for like a week, but then he got fired and Bruce came in, it was just so everything was so jumbled and weird. It was like I didn't know who the fuck to go do to talk to anyone. I'm like, I was told I got called up, but no one's approaching me with anything. I'm not even like in the locker room, like I don't know what's going on. So finally I get a call that's like, hey, we're gonna bring you back to do a couple matches and face cross who they're building up to face Keith. And we wanna introduce you with the Keith storyline cuz Keith is gonna win the championship. So I think that was my first time back was when Keith won the championship. And I gave him a hug afterwards. And then we ran the program with cross and cross killed me off. And then again, now I'm back on on raw in some capacity, sort of. Or maybe I never left raw, I don't remember, it's very unclear. But I know that we're going to raw, like we're physically there because we're like in these tents outside and then we go in and they have a sit there. And it's this whole production where Kevin Dunn's yelling at everyone in the ring. And it's just a silly mess. Through no fault of WWE's, right? They're just trying to survive COVID. So like I don't share what I think that they did like a horrific job at that. Like they maintained a product when most things just stopped, right? Like most things didn't exist for better or worse in terms of your views on COVID. And spreading COVID, which by the way, everybody in WWE got COVID. >> Yeah, I remember, I certainly remember COVID. So that was a catastrophe. We had to get tested every fucking way. It was just such a nightmare, such a nightmare. But also unique and fun in a lot of aspects. So yeah, so finally, I go straight, I'm like, I don't know what my status is. So I go straight to Vince. First impression of Vince is horrible. >> No, because man, the PC is in this weird. I don't know if anyone's familiar with the layout of the current PC. But basically- >> Probably not. >> Probably not, so like the building that you see on NXT, that's the old PC, what they now call the NXT arena. That ring that you're seeing on television, that used to be the middle ring of all those rings that were right today. So those old pictures used to see if the old PC with the weight room in the background. The weight room is basically the gorilla position now. And then the arena is that middle area where we used to train. >> Did they build on to it? Did they expand it or did they just remodel it? >> Remodel, totally remodel. >> Yeah, it's the exact same size, exact same building. It's just different, just totally different. And all of that happened while I wasn't there. So I just left and came back and it was just kind of flaky. But yeah, so during the pandemic time, they did like a makeshift model of what the current NXT arena is. And it was like kind of bare bones and looked real shitty and but it had a bunch of lights and stuff. So that area was where we were running TV, but the production of everything was over in the other building that's adjacent to it. That I think they were just renting at the time but now they own it because now that's the training facility. But at the time it wasn't a training facility, it was just a big empty warehouse they were renting with a bunch of separate rooms. And Vince's office for whatever reason was like five rooms down. So you had to like, you had to kind of like breach these levels of warehouse to get to them and like, you'd go through like the Smackdown set and then you go through like the production meeting and then you go through it. And finally it was like it was like going from like boss to boss to boss and finally like his security guard standing at one door. I'm like, is Vince in there? And he's like, yes, so I'm like, can I go talk to him? And he's like, yeah, so I, so I'm opening these doors. And I don't know what's on the other side of these doors. So like I'm opening a door because again, this is a facility that I'm not familiar with is it was just. >> Yes. >> Someone else's facility that happened to be near the BC for a long time. So I'm opening this door and I don't know what's behind it. I'm like, maybe it's Vince like sitting at a desk like, and I open it. And it's, it's like a production meeting and it's like a bunch of writers and they all stop and look at what, and look at me and Vince's talking to Jason Jordan. I'm just standing there in the doorway and I'm like, fuck. Cuz I'm clearly interrupting something and I didn't know. So now I'm just standing in the doorway waiting for them to finish. And they talked for what felt like a half hour but was probably more like eight minutes. Yeah, standing there awkwardly forever. Finally, he finishes, he like looks at me and like smiles and waves and I walk over. I introduce myself to him. I'm like, hey, it's nice to meet you, my name's, I don't remember what I said. I'm Dominic Dajko, but on NXT, I've been told that I'm called up. I just wanted to know if there's anything that you're looking for specifically. And his response was like, have you talked to Bruce Prichard? And I was like, yeah, yeah, I've talked to Bruce. And I was like, okay, well, he does the creative stuff and I was like, okay, good. And from that moment, I was like, okay, I'm fucked. Cuz he doesn't know who I am, he doesn't give a shot. Cuz like at that point, right, if you were on NXT, like there was a pretty clear idea if Vince knew who you were or not. And that kind of updated how your main roster run was gonna go. And I was like, okay, I'm fucked. So, and through the grapevine, I heard that he was not happy with that at all. He didn't like that I came into him and I approached him. >> Really? >> Yeah, yeah, I guess he, I was wearing cat cuz they told us to wear like casual stuff. As we were fans, both wearing like a tank top or whatever. So I guess he wanted me in like a suit and to call him sir and whatever. But then he gonna talk with me a month later, hilarious talk in hindsight. About professionalism and speaking to, my God, it's such a fever dream. I'm skipping ahead. Retribution debuts, it's a catastrophe. It's a bunch of writers or extras or small little people throw in things and go. >> A man waddled towards the camera at once and he's like, you better watch it out. >> Absolutely, but I viewed it as an opportunity. I said, okay, I can fix this. I can, I can make retribution a fucking awesome thing. >> Yes. >> So, so I go to Vince, I film my own pitch where I have like my own mask that I made, that kind of looks like the T bar mask, but not really. >> Yes. >> And it was meant to be an entrance mask. So I film the pitch where I'm talking like this. And I take the mask off and I'm cutting this promo and it's all dark and lit and stuff like that. And I take that video in, this is now my second time meeting, then since like a month later, I take it in to show it to him. I'm like, this is what I think retribution could be. I had a list, I wrote up a list of like names. Like I think Mickey Cross was on there, Deimo was on there. A lot of people who ended up in retribution were on there. It was like Brandon was in there, or Mason D. Madden was in there, Shane Thorne was on there. I think I put Tommaso Chi. I just listed like seven or eight people who I thought would fit this kind of like, we're angry at the company and we want to take them out sort of revolution type group. And I said, here's who I think would fit in this group. I think this is the vibe. I think this is Deim. And he watched the video and he had basically no feedback for any of that. But he gave me a five minute talk on like professionalism and like talking to people who own companies. He's like, you need to be more professional. You need to present yourself better. You need to do that. He's like, not me. I'm one of the boys. But I'm like, clearly, clearly you're referring to you. Like this is, but that's just kind of how Vince operated. He operated in this weird bubble where like, he certainly did. Out of view of himself that was not the view that he projected it. It was just all very surreal. Like, so I present it and I'm like, all right, that fucked. He doesn't care. But then, but then two weeks later, it kind of starts to happen. And like, Mason shows up in the group as a, as a hooded character. And then another person I picked shows up and the, as a hooded, and then I show up as a hooded character. Oh, I think he kind of maybe listened or somebody listened to this pitch and some because I think I sent it to Bruce and the raw team and whoever as well. So it kind of starts to happen. I'm like, oh shit, this is awesome. We're all getting called up. And we all, because at this point, there's kind of a focus on retribution. Like it's, it's like the lights go out and Rand Jorton punt kicks Ric Flair and it's like, it's integrated in the whole program. I know a lot of people weren't watching or hated watching during the pandemic for then very good reason to do so. But at that point, it's a focal point of Monday, not wrong. It's like, oh shit, this is becoming a thing. And then the more we do it, the more steam it gets. People are starting because originally it started and they were like, everyone looks like a child, you know, screaming and throwing a temper tantrum. But the more that we did it, the more actual pro wrestlers did it. And now me and, and, and, and Mason are next to each other who are big and imposing in these ski masks and we got Shane in there and he looks good and everybody's hitting each other hard and the segments are actually going, well, like we beat up Dominic Mysterio, we beat up Keith, we beat up Drew, we beat up Braun, we beat up, you know, there was a bunch of weeks in a row where I was like, this is going really well, we're on Raw and Smackdown. And then suddenly it's like, boom, and it falls off a cliff because they're like, you guys can't be on Smackdown anymore. And I don't think anyone told us, but we heard that it was because Fox did hurt. Yeah. And that's when it was like, boom, this fell off the cliff and it was before we had like officially debuted. So we're like, oh, we're screwed. They can just, they can just trash the whole thing because like, no one's seen our faces. No nothing. Know anything. How far into that like by the time that we saw the first people waddling on screen, did you know you were going to be in retribution or did that come after? No, man, no, nobody knew the first time you saw them on screen when they threw Molotov cocktails at the generator. I don't even think I was officially on Raw. I was like in a middle ground, but I don't even think I, I saw it as an opportunity because I was in this meandering middle ground where it was like, they don't know how to use me. They have no plan for me. I see this faction. I'm like, I have friends who I like who are very talented and in a similar boat. I'm just going to go for it and say, Hey, I don't think you'll permit this. Let me give you a plan. And it kind of started to work. So yeah, so you presenting that you didn't think that like they had considered you for it. You were just kind of throwing your hat in the ring. Oh, I'm a thousand percent sure that they had not answered before. I don't think they'd considered anyone. I don't think there was a plan at all. It's not. That's not watching the program. You can reasonably discern that they didn't have a place with literally just like writers and extras and nonsense. And yeah, based on everything I had heard about it, it was very hazy like the way the story was told to me was after that call, he had a meeting at some point and said, come up with something. Let's do it. And then they hastily put it together for I guess the next week, I think it was. It might have been the next day. It would have been. Yes. It was very fast. Because they didn't even talk about it until like 3 p.m. that day when they're like other group is debuting on Monday Night Raw and they call themselves retribution. I'm like, why would they send a press release? Like that's very odd for a bunch of people. None of it made sense. Why would they hire these people? No, it made zero sense. Anyway, so, so we're doing the thing. We're doing the masks. It's all getting better, right? It's not great, but it's getting better. It's trending in a good direction. And we're pitching stuff like crazy, like I think I pitched names. I wanted the names like big and capitalized, like Dijak, Dio, because Mason was Dio man at the time. So just Dijak, just Dio, just Thor, like these one name, big capital letter, impactful things. We wear these entrance masks because the company has betrayed us, right? Harry and Cross killed me off. I'm angry at the company. This guy got betrayed by his tag partner, this guy got, you know, we all had these reasons in this motivation. We presented all of this. And then just one day, just like a big fucking hammer, it just came down and it was like boom. Here's your masks. Oh, cool. They entrance masks. Nope. You wear them all the time. Oh, shit. Okay. Maybe we can make that work. Your name is going to be T bar. Your name is going to be slapjack. Your name is going to be nace and we're like, so all of you knew these guys, once you have paint your face and do all this stuff and we're like, you know, it's like in the back of our heads, we're like, okay, at least it's us, right? Because at this point, we don't have main roster contracts. And this is an appointment in WWE history where you can just, where Vince can just go, ah, fucking fire him. And just like, it didn't work and that happened all the time. So like our jobs are on the line now. So we're like, okay, at least it's still being pushed. At least it's our faces are out now. So they can't just replace us also while this is happening or a little bit after this happened. So our faces are out. So we're like, good. Now they, now they have to use us. They have to give us these contracts. Even if it's terrible and we know it's terrible, the names are terrible and all this stuff is terrible. We're talking like those with the voice changers and blah, blah, blah, blah. Even though we know it's all bad, it's like, at least we're here and we're going to get pushed and it's, it's, it's fake fighting. It's pretend nonsense. So we can, if you push us, it will get over no matter what, right? If you can, you can do the silly shit in the world, but if it gets pushed and you throw a bunch of championships on it, people will be like, Hey, that's the cool thing now. That's awesome. Yeah. Obviously that didn't happen. I will say you guys, you guys did like a shockingly, alarmingly high number of YouTube views for everything that you all did. Like we keep track of those. And like if you go back and you look, there were a lot of retribution segments that were giving like 10 million YouTube views. It was, it was insane. Like, and then when they brought Ali in, they bumped up again, like the numbers were really crazy. So visually it was just always so crazy because we put a thumbnail on YouTube and it'd be like 20 ski mask guys surrounding Braun Strowman as he stands there and that would get like 40 million, 40 million news or whatever. And then once we debuted with the masks, like people just scrolling on YouTube, we're like, fuck is this? And it clicked. And obviously unanimously it was despised, right? Like everybody hated it, but it was just the, it was at a time where, where that's the sort of fade or that, that transition from like news outlets wanting to report genuine news to like, let's just say whatever the fuck we want because people will just comment endlessly under it and it'll just gain interaction. So it started to get a lot of that. And that did they ever, did they ever approach you all and be like, Hey, these are doing pretty crazy numbers digitally for us. So that's like something you all just discover your own because like, yeah, I'm looking right now, like segments that you got or the retribution had with hurt business, drew and Keith Lee, Alexa and fiend, of course, Mustafa Ali, Braun Strowman, like all these are like insane levels of numbers. Like I encourage people to go back and look because yeah, the, the bike, like it's just so wild, the level of traffic they did. We talk about this routinely because I'm still friends with all those people. I've talked to literally all of them today, sorry to hear that, including, including Ali. But yeah, we talk about routinely how with the exception of Ali, the rest of us are mostly our biggest impact on, on the world in terms of just like anything. There is that stuff, like that's the most that anyone's ever seen out us as as a entity on on earth. And no one will ever know it was us, they'll never know it was us. And they'll never give a shit that it was us. And it it's unanimously despised, but it's just funny that like millions and millions and millions of people saw that and just like laughed at it and moved on with their lives because it's such a fleeting, unenbackable thing, but yes. So those, those numbers and stuff became part of my pitch to basically Vince at that point because he was doing a lot of the contract, or I guess he got the final say on contracts and stuff. Yeah. Because they brought us all, this is a whole nother thing. And I don't want to talk too, too much about like money and details of what the structures were of contracts at that time, but long story short, they were trying to bring me specifically up into a contract situation that didn't, it didn't make sense because there was a lack of communication between talent relation departments at that point. I think it's a lot better now, not perfect, but it's a lot better now. But at that point, there was a real lack of internal communication and and I was trying to explain that to them and they didn't like that. They did not like that I was doing that and there was, there was some, I wouldn't call them threats, but I was strongly encouraged to stop doing that, not directly indirectly through booking decisions, through meetings that I was a part of, through other people who were being brought to television as potential replacements. None of this was told directly to me, but it was all made apparent to me that like, you need to shut your mouth and accept what we're giving you or you're out of here. Again, that wasn't said to me, but the general tone of that was very much felt on my part. I was very much pressured into into signing a contract that I wasn't terribly comfortable signing. Um, but the one of the rumors I had heard back then is basically they had you all sign identical contracts on the same day. I don't know how true that is. It's not something I could ever run with. It was all of us, but most of us, yes, okay. And it I don't it was an uncomfortable situation. I can't I can't speak to the legality of it because I don't know. But it felt uncomfortable. And there was booking decisions on the same day where you can go back and watch me. It's like our first or second match and I get put in the fucking hurt lock right away and I'm tapping out and all of that was for a reason. So ultimately, we thought we got it resolved. The contracts were signed. It is what it is. I don't remember the timing of it, but maybe I'll lead joined us after that. It started to trend in the right direction again, but then it just fell off and fucking cliff and we just started to lose to everybody and it was a catastrophe and was that another abrupt thing or did they know early on that Ali would be involved or is that something you all are told like as it progresses? They didn't know. He found out. He found out that day, um, so that the hacker he found out when the hacker stuff happened or after the hacker stuff had been promoted this is way after hacker. Oh my God, after hacker, so he had no idea that those were designed for him, but what was designed for him? Like I think they did like little vignettes and things like that and a little like social posts where they had implied, you know, that the hacker was there, something like that. I believe that they he'd already joined at that point. Okay. We all that after we, I want to make something clear. Everybody who was involved in retribution with the exception of Mercedes, because she was only there for two weeks, because she was like, fuck this, I don't want to be part of this. Everybody else who was involved in retribution put their, their fucking heart and soul into making that presentable, because what they would give us every week was the most atrocious thing you would ever see in your life. What you saw on TV was so much better than what we were given. And that's not me pretending it was good, because it was not good. It was very bad. We took it from like inexplicably horrible to just bad. And we worked our asses off to make that happen. Like Ali would go endlessly into Vince's office and pitch like, please don't do this. This is going to get us canceled. This is going to get us fired. We're going to, we're going to look horrible as we'll still lose, but please let us lose this way. Don't like don't do that. Don't, you know, it was just a every week was a fucking battle as a fight for our lives, because we knew that we were one step away from just being just obliterated off the face of the earth. And everyone in that group is a fucking excellent wrestler. Everybody's really entertaining and really good. Be ourselves. Just let us wrestle. Just give us time. Just let us create this, let us, let us fix what you've screwed up and they just would not. They, everything just would get run by Vince and be like, you know, they would just have a fucking problem with everything. It was just, it was fun because I was around my friends and it was a new experience and we were on the main roster. We were on Monday night. People are talking about us, but it was super negative because going to work was just treacherous. You would, at that point, you don't have fans. So our only feedback is Twitter and Twitter is just fucking eviscerating us. Of course. Just eating us alive where every time we're on TV, we're trending number one, but it's for all the wrong reasons. It's just people just endlessly shitting on me. And I'll admit, I was in a dark place like men. I think we all were at that time, right? It's like the middle of, or the end of 2020. So we're all in this fucking fatigue where it's like, the world doesn't exist. We're all in this dark hole. We're living, I'm living on Twitter, right? Because it's the only feedback I'm getting from my job. My name is T-Bar. I'm supposed to be this part of this character. I'm trying to make it interesting. So I'm just shooting on everyone and just saying nonsense and just just, just, just, there's plenty of like regrettable things I said that were like in character, but sort of not. It's just a complete mess. A decent amount of regrets from that overall. It was a lot of fun to be around my friends and to be in the Thunderdome, which was a unique experience in its own right, but yeah, it's, it was wild, it was a wild experience. I'll tell you the most fun part of the Thunderdome was not being T-Bar, but it was, it was the fact that in Amway, especially, and then in the, because we did it in four places. Tropicana, not so much, but the two small arenas after that was some of the coolest experiences of not only my life, but I think like in the history of television, or in the history of WWE, I'll say, because what we got to experience was so cool in that it was just a big empty arena filming Monday Night Raw and as talent, we would finish our segment or whatever, which in its own right was unique. It's unique because you're wrestling in front of these screens and it's like, you know, it's like this futuristic fucking weird thing, but then even cooler than that would be like we'd finish and we'd go to catering or whatever and we'd take our food and we'd go sit up in the, in the nosebleed seats in a huge empty arena and just watch, just from the hard cam point of view, just watch Monday Night Raw as a fan for only us. And to me, that was like the coolest thing as a fan of wrestling is like, wow, I'm getting like my own personal Monday Night Raw, and I'm the only one in the arena watching it and it's like everyone's just doing the show just for us, like sitting here watching the show. And as a fan, it was probably the coolest thing you could ever experience because it was just like, it would be like if you were a trillionaire and you could just rent WWE for yourself. Yes. And I had that experience and I was like, and I remember sitting there and having these thoughts actively like this will never happen again, and this is like one of the coolest things ever. So that was a personal highlight for me, but yeah, the actual product itself is not so much. So I guess we can move on past retribution. I am the person who watches main event. I'm the guy. It's you. You're the guy. I'm the guy. I've watched every episode. You just love me. You became, I said the best five to eight minute wrestler in the world. You were there on it for like a year and there's actually a lot of fun stuff that I'm sure a lot of people didn't discover like you, you would randomly be teaming with like Shelton Benjamin one week or Akira to Zawa or like your wrestling Reggie who people had never seen work a six minute match before and then it'd be like Champa or Apollo or something like that. And you all would fit some kind of cool things into those matches. Yes. During that period, how were you feeling because occasionally you'd be putting about a royal or they'd have you get crushed by Omos, but you were working these main event matches almost weekly at that point. Was there any concern or like how did you feel? It was the, it was a dichotomy of feelings, right? Most of my, so on a personal level, I was, my, my kids were young and I got to spend a lot of time with them because I'm not on house shows. I'm not on pay-per-views, I'm not, I just end like half, maybe not half, but like a third of the rods I don't even get flown out to because they just, they can't have me on main event every single week. So it'd be like two or three in a row and then you're off two or three. So really I'm working like five days a month or whatever it happened, whatever it happened. So I'm spending a lot of time at home with my kids. So I'm super happy about that on a personal level because my daughter's a baby at the time, my son's only four years old. So I'm super happy that I get to watch my kids grow up. That being said professionally, I'm in a very dark place because I'm desperately trying everything. I'm pitching to writers, I'm pitching to Bruce, I'm pitching to Vince, I'm trying everything in the world. I'm like, please, I'm doing binders, I'm doing videos, I'm doing this, I'm doing, I'm trying everything in the world. And you just get stuck in this rut at WWE where it's like, we'll get to them later, we'll get to them later, we'll get to them later. And they just, they just, they go, he's here again, the pitches thing, he's here to pitch, you know, and it's like, it just, it starts to eat at you. And this is at a time when, you know, releases happen, right? Pretty frequently. So every, every six months, there's like a conference call or whatever. And it's like, well, here's the conference call. Yep. Two days later. Here they come. It's funny, because we all, we all start following you because you become the way that we find out, right? They don't, they don't announce them publicly anymore. No. No. So occasionally they would do, occasionally, I know they would send you guys like a talent relations memo or something. Then that stopped. I would come after though, they would say they would fire everybody and then they'd send us a list and be like, here's everybody who fired me, be like, yeah, we know we follow Sean on Twitter. Yeah. And it was a thing where one of the times I realized that I found out before some of the talent did, and I felt like real gross about that. Like, and I had a wrestler say, you shouldn't feel gross. They should feel gross. Sure. It's, it's, it's one of the most horrific business practices I've ever witnessed. And I haven't been in a lot of businesses, right? But the, I will always be publicly outspoken about this. And I don't, to my knowledge, I don't think they, no, they might still do this. They haven't, they haven't done a round of releases in a long time, but I think the last one was probably Mason Minsau, right? And weren't they in that round releases? And, well, I think last year with Ali and. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So that was the same. We still do this. So I will be very outspoken about this until it gets fixed. That's not how this should be done. And that should absolutely 100% not be how this should be done. They had the ones in April, Von Wagner and Zion and gender on them. They're going to figure out a way to contact everybody, all at once. And let everybody know all at once that this is happening, because we should not be put through this thing where you see one name come out and it's like, oh, Mustafa Ali has been released. And then we all go, okay, I know that, I know that he asked for his release and maybe they're doing that. And when I text him, I'm like, Hey, man, I'm sorry. I'm like, and he texts me back. He's like, yep, I think there's more coming and I'm like, Oh, no, and then because even though I'm in a decent spot at that time in NXT, like they can just fucking fire anyone. And it's not out of the realm of possibility that a guy from the main roster gets sent down to NXT and then inexplicably released. That's happened many, many times it was a major concern of mine. So you're just watching people drop like flies like there goes Von Wagner. There goes he was just on TV last week. He was just I'm like, fuck, you know, so it's like, why do they have to do it like that? The answer is they don't. The answer is they don't have a better way to do it. And it's it I, it wouldn't take that much thought to come up with a better way to do it. >> Especially with the access to the talent relations app, which is supposed to be pretty uniform in getting messages to talent in any situation. >> There has to be a better way to do it. But these days where we all cuz I went through 15 of them and some were worse than others. Some of them like the last one wasn't so bad because I was I was on to but also keep in mind Ali was announced for a premium live event and then released. He was planned to win the NXT North American Championship. He had gear made. >> So I'm so I'm watching this and I'm like, no, like I feel secure, but like I bet he felt secure. He was announced for a premium live event like that he wanted to leave and they didn't let him. >> Right. So like that one felt concerning but not nearly as concerning as as the the round of releases like where one word where Shane got released that was that was the one that was the one where I was I was just I remember I was in this room that I'm in right now and my wife can see it on my face. She's like what's happening and I'm looking at my phone and I'm like, it makes me upset thinking about it right now because I'm looking at my phone, Shane's texting me. He's telling me he got released and I'm looking. >> Hey guys, I'm here to tell you about eBay Auto. eBay Motors is the leading online platform for automotive dealers to get their inventory in front of over seven million ready to buy shoppers who are buying cars and trucks on eBay Motors every three minutes every single day. They make it easy to find parts for cars, trucks, SUVs, motorcycles and more. They even offer a massive selection of new and pre-owned classics. Whether it's fixing, updating or maintaining your existing vehicle or finding new and used vehicles. eBay Motors is easy to navigate by vehicle type, category of items, sales events or the brand type of car, motorcycle pickup or SUV that you have. You can shop parts on the eBay Motors app and with their eBay guaranteed fit, it is guaranteed to fit your ride every time. Head over to ebay.com and find what's right for your ride that's ebay.com. >> What does innovation sound like? It sounds like the luxury of being in the moment with your customer, client or patient. It sounds like having the right information right when you need it. It sounds like being at your best for your customers and your business thanks to Highland's intelligent content solutions that improve digital processes. Yours everywhere are able to do their thing better. Whatever that thing is. Now who doesn't like the sound of that? Highland for innovators everywhere visit hiland.com. Want a website with unmatched power, speed and control? Try Bluehost Cloud, the new web hosting plan from Bluehost, built for WordPress creators by WordPress experts. With 100% uptime, incredible load times and 24/7 WordPress priority support, your sites will be lightening fast with global reach. And with Bluehost Cloud, your sites can handle surges in traffic no matter how big. Plus you automatically get daily backups and world class security. Get started now at Bluehost.com. >> My name is T-Bar, right? I'm on main event. I can't get off main event. I'm like surely I'm at the top of this list, right? I have no credibility at this point. No one's seen me on TV, I've just been T-Bar, I've been a joke for two years. I'm just staring at my phone, my wife can see on my face. I'm starting to cry because I think I'm about to get fired and I don't have a backup plan. I don't think I'm going to be, it wouldn't have been what today is for me. Right now I'm a great spot. I'm super lucky and super thankful that I ended up with the run that I got. Back then I would have been fucked badly. Shane is still recovering. This is one of my best friends. I'm texting him right now, we talk every day. He's still recovering from what they did to him. It was a bogging, it was bad. He was fucking ripped out of his tag team, made slapjack, which is somehow a bigger joke than T-Bar and then just fucking cast aside on, maybe worse than that, just off TV for like a year and then just released. >> I wouldn't say this at that point. I would hear like, oh he's been quietly moved to this other brand and then I would reach out and they're like, we don't know, we don't have any idea what they're doing with them. And I mean, and during that period, especially when you were there, nobody was safe, like Cardona got fired, Rusev got fired. I think like when Braun got fired, I was like, what is Vince looking for? What exactly is it that he's looking for? So what you do is you're watching the names come out, I want, you know, we're all on your Twitter page, just refresh, refresh, this is what you all do, because we don't have another source, because we see one name and we go, oh no, today's the day. And then we all just go to your Twitter page and start refreshing, just waiting, just waiting for our name to pop up, because you might find out before us, that's just, we're looking at that. And then while we're doing that, we're looking at our phone, just waiting for the 203 number to pop up, because that means you're fine. So we're just, that's what our day becomes. See, that, to me, that's bad as well. When I find out the first cut, and like, I know that they have been informed because I never run them unless the person has been informed, but then they're actively making more and people are worried because the natural question that I get, and is it frustrating to hear? Yes, but it's a natural question. Are there more coming? Are there more coming? Is there be talent, staff, or fans? They always want to know are more coming, and we never have the answer to that until somebody in an official capacity in WB tell us, yes, they are. And a couple of times, they've been wrong about that too. And there have been a couple more that, like, I think Riddle's dropped after, which, who knows, maybe he was on a beach without a phone or something, who knows with him. But like, they weren't over. So it's- It's heartbreaking, the game that we're playing in our minds, our minds are just spinning while it's happening, and we're refreshing, and we're looking at the thing. And the game that we're playing as all these names are popping up is why, why have, why have. Sure. We're talking to each other like, like, like, brawn, prey, can you believe it? And then you hear through the grapevine, and it's like, oh, I heard that this guy got in an argument with Vince. I heard this guy asked for more money. I heard this guy, you know, so we're justifying it. It's like, what did I do? Did I ask for it? Did I make a mistake? Wrong way, the night. And it's just- There were definitely some of those 2019 deals they signed after AEW debuted, and all of a sudden, okay, people were talking about how much Carl Anderson and gallows are making. They talked about bronze, new deal being seven figures. They talked about what Bray was making, then they got cut. Yep. Yep. So it's just, it just becomes a nightmare. And it's, there's gotta be, I don't, I don't have the answer of what the better way is, but there has to be a better way where everyone gets notified all of them. It's a, an automated system where everyone gets called with like a, with like a message and whatever. I don't care what it is. It's better than just, we find out one name and then we have to sit and wait for a phone call. It's ridiculous. That's- Well, dare I say that them informing a guy a couple days before his deal expires, that they will not be resigning him is also not a good way, because I can tell you- A couple, a couple is unfair. I had a little more notice than that. I was not, I was not told today that, that they wouldn't be renewed. But it wasn't that long ago either. When were you told? And how does that go? I know there has been a talent relation shake up there. I don't want to get specific into the dates, but it was not that long ago. Okay. I was, I was, for one reason or other, I was told not to get into the specifics of the dates. I don't know whether it matters or not. Okay. It was, it was somewhat recently, let's, let's put it this way. I've been trying to negotiate with, with WWE, because, because when I started, and even as recently as I don't know, maybe two years ago, contracts were, were renegotiated years in advance. I, I, I've had probably five or six contracts with WWE. I've never, this, right now, because I'm still under contract, right now is the furthest, the deepest into a contract by two years that I've ever gotten. And close, I've never got on another deal before it was renewed was, was two years out. And I don't want to, I mean, I feel like that may be the reason the prior talent relations guy got the boot because I know that, I mean, Natalia is up in a few days and Becky Lynch's deal was allowed to be up, but she wanted to take time off. Yeah, I'll tell you this one, that's, that's the rumor. And I can tell you unequivocally, just from my own anecdotal evidence that they can say that, but that's not the reason that Dan got fired, because if that was the reason that Dan got fired, then they got to fire the two new guys, because they're doing the exact same thing. They go to me. Sure. Right. Well, I mean, gags. Yeah, I know that. So they're not a priest. But that can't be true. Sure. And that it's just something that many people deduced because, again, they were done so far ahead. Like, I remember when people, people were like, Oh my God, they fired Cardona and Rusev. And I was like, well, they offered them new deals and they didn't take the new deals. That's why they got fired because their 90 days had like, it was, it was almost a formality firing, like, like a public showing because their 90 days were up like a few days up before their contract was anyway. So there was no purpose, but you do not have a 90 day as yours expires. Is that correct? That's correct. Yeah. Yeah, I can, I can do whatever I want on Saturday. And how do you, how do you feel about that? Cause I know there's a lot of people that are like, Oh my God, those are gross. I know a lot of people that are like, no, I like hanging out with my family for 90 days, getting in good shape and getting paid. It's a double edged sword, for sure. Because the pros are, I can do what I did today, if you're watching this tomorrow, I guess yesterday, but which is save everything for a couple of days in advance and say, Hey, I'm free tomorrow. And then everyone goes, Oh shit, tomorrow. And then all of a sudden I'm, you know, I'm the fun new toy right away. Whereas other people, they're like, this guy's been released. They make their fun, cool video, and then everyone has to wait three months to book them or anything. So that's the pro. And it's a big pro. I'll be honest. That's a big pro. I was on WWE programming seven to eight days ago. Yeah. On, on speed, which is like, ah, speed, whatever, viewed by 2.3 million people. I, well, I look the, um, and now you can go to Uganda tomorrow if you want. I was the pinned tweet for WWE yesterday. So I thought that was hilarious. I was the pinned tweet. I'm trying to figure out a way to ask this in which you can maybe appropriately answer that. Sure. So I mean, if you found out, so I presume you found out before yesterday, so you were still the pinned tweet yesterday. So you knew while they were still actively promoting that, that you were no longer going to be in the company. Yes. Yeah. I mean, there's your window right there. If you have any sense at all, you can, you can, you can kind of figure out a, yeah, seven days that it was because I found out after I wrestled Xavier Woods, obviously, maybe not because I probably would have done it regardless. But no, we'll just state that as fact. I found out after I wrestled Xavier Woods, but I found out before everybody publicly advertised that match and it got posted and everything. So yeah, that poses the question. Why the fuck did you get drafted to Raw? That's an excellent question that no one's given me an answer to. And I've asked it, but no one's given me an answer to it. My brain, again, this is the whole thing that I was just alluding to. Why is this happening? Why is this happening in the role at X10, 12, 14 reasons? I've been in WWE long enough where I know generally how things operate and how things take place. My gut feeling is they knew they had a general idea of when my contract, I mean, they made the contract. So somebody in some capacity knows when my contract is up. I don't know whether the decision makers have that date in front of them or whatever. Maybe they do. Maybe they don't. I don't know. I think they were generally aware of when my time was coming up. My guess would be that these decisions were likely made in some capacity before I even went to NXT. And I think somebody likely looked, maybe not somebody, but I think a group of individuals likely looked at me as a whole and said, okay, here's T-bar. He's up in June of 2024. Do we release him now? Or do we try to get as much out of this contract as we possibly can? And I think thankfully, on my part, the conclusion was, let's put him in NXT and see what he can do there. >> Of course, you had some of the greatest matches of your career there. And now anybody that might have that doubt did retribution ruin this guy permanently can now look and say, no, it didn't. >> Nobody's more thankful for that than me. I've been super public, I've thanked Hunter, I've thanked Sean publicly and privately both of them number of times. Thank you so much, this saved my career, cuz it did, and I'm still thankful for that. That being said, it's disheartening to, and I don't know this to be fact, but my gut tells me that no matter what I did, the decision had already been made, cuz I didn't feel that way when I was in NXT, and NXT, I was like, fuck yes, this is my chance, I'm gonna fucking out wrestle everybody, I'm the best wrestler in the world, I know I'm losing, I don't care, I'll lose every fucking match, it doesn't matter, they did me a huge favor, I'm gonna put these guys over huge, I'm gonna have their best matches, I'm gonna have everybody's best match, every premium live event, every match, I don't care if it's two minutes on TV, Luca Crucifito, Trey Berhill, I'll give all these guys, I'm gonna do everything in my fucking power to have the best matches possible, to show them, I'm gonna prove to them that I'm the fucking best, and that I deserve this opportunity. And in my head, I was like, every time I went out there, I was like, yes, you're fucking nailed it, you're fucking nailed it, every time, every time, as recently as two months ago at Stand Delivery, yes, biggest show in my life, I fucking nailed it, I got a fucking great triple, triple threats are fucking hard as hell, and Obafemi is like, three minutes out. And everybody was watching, everyone was watching, it's WrestleMania weekend, everybody saw this, boom, the draft is coming up, everything's fucking working out, yes, and then I'm sitting there during the draft, and the draft is a shoot, right, nobody knows what's happening, and I'm sitting there during the draft, and I'm watching the names and stuff, and there's like the Angel and Demon on my shoulder, right, because part of me sitting there all grumpy because I thought it would be funny, and I'm like in character, and it's like, no, like, why would I stand and applaud for, I would digest the assassin standing, so that part of it was funny, but also internally, and like a shoot, I'm thinking to myself, I'm like, okay, you are, you've been told that there are plans for you to be in the main event picture with trick Williams for the NXT Championship, also your contract is up in a month or so, give or take. So, so there's this, this argument going on in my head, I'm like, do you want to stay in NXT with trick and have this cool feud, and will they renew you if you're in NXT? That'll be weird, that'll be an awkward conversation, because you're on a main roster contract still, so it's this weird, weird middle ground, and then I'm watching the names get listed off, and it's like, as they keep going, I'm like, uh oh, uh oh, uh oh, because I'm, because in the back of my head, I'm thinking to myself, I'm like, the further this goes, the more likely I am to be supplemental draft, and if I'm supplemental draft, I'm fucked. I don't care what anyone says, who has my back, I don't care who does what, if I'm supplemental draft, that means they've made up their mind, and I'm fucked. So, as there is a track record on people in the supplemental draft being fucked, it just means they don't care, yes, we don't care, you're on, we don't care, that's what it means. Odyssey Jones still can't get on TV, it's been drafted twice. Exactly, Von Wagner drafted, and then back on it, it's just, it means they don't care, that's what it is. So I'm watching this, and I'm watching the names, name, name, name, name, name, name. Finally, I think they get to the last name, and I'm like, okay, maybe if it's just on TV, it's salvaged, and the like, the last name from NXT, I think the last one was Blair Davenport maybe, and so her name comes up, everyone's clapping and applauding, and I'm thinking myself, okay, please just be still on NXT, please be still on NXT, please be still on NXT, and then whatever it was, Raw or SmackDown goes off the air, and they, and I don't remember who it was, maybe who was there, I don't remember, but they had someone, whoever the, who's Jackie Redmond that night or so, I don't remember who was doing the announcing or interview or whatever, but they announced to the live crowd and to us, they're like, we have one more, and I know that it's off the air, and they're like, we have one more announcement, and the second I heard those words, everything clicked together for me, and, oh my god, Wayne just connected all the dots, and I go, I am so screwed right now, fucking screw, I even texted my wife, I might have texted my wife, or maybe my friends, or maybe all of them, and said something to the effect of, because it was funny, I was texting the whole night, I was like, I had Taco Bell, I have to go to bed, you know, I'm like, I'm like, I'm texting everyone, and I'm saying, I think I'm, I think I'm completely screwed right now, because I'm connecting all these dots, I'm going, my contract is one month, they're going to call me up in the supplemental draft, that means they don't have anything for me, that means I'm going to come down to the wire, that means they're going to either try to bend me over the barrel, or just fire me all together, and I'm just connecting all these dots, meanwhile, there's cameras on me, and I have to play pretend like I'm all fucking happy and stuff, which in a sense I am, because yeah, it's cool that you're all cheering for me, and all my friends are supporting me, and Sean's there, and I'm like, I'm like, none of these people know what I know, and, but maybe they did, I don't know, but certainly not the talent, the talent, you're just happy, they're like, yeah, because we're all friends, right, and these people respect me, and I've been around them, and I've been, yeah, I didn't just go to NXT, right, I went back to the Performance Center, I said, I'm going to go all in, and I don't live in Florida, I live in New Hampshire, so I'm flying down to the PC for like weeks at a time, like leaving my family, yeah, so I can train with these people, so I can do class with fit thinly, so I can do class with the younger kids, and give back to them, and teach them training, and stuff like that, so I'm all in on this Performance Center lifestyle, and NXT, and we're all friends, and we're all comrades and stuff, so they're all, they're all shoot happy for me, but in the back of my head, I'm like, I'm fucked, I'm fucked, and then, okay, try to stay positive, you're on Raw, try to, maybe, maybe there's a plan, maybe there's some, so I'm going to Raw, and I go to- - I was going to ask about that. - I go to the first Raw, there's nothing on the sheet, I'm like, and you know, you start playing the, you start playing the game again, the WWE game where it's like, maybe it's this, maybe it's this, maybe it's this, maybe it's, maybe they're waiting for this, they're waiting for the next pay per view to end, and the more you try to justify, the more it goes deeper in your brain, you go, yep, you're fucked, yeah. - So I would, I would get, you know, I get rundowns and stuff like that, and I would hear early in the day, oh yeah, Dijak's listed for this, now he's not, that did, like, and then, I think it was maybe a month after the draft, it's like, have the fuel leave the memories, a lone song play here, your back on main event, and your wrestling, I mean, that's the one positive thing, I got to watch your wrestle piece done. - Yeah, there were so many levels to this, dissent, dissent, or this, this, where it was just like, another, another step where it's like, oh, I know, I know what's happening, I know it's happening, and everyone, I remember one time I got a, one of the bigger daggers to me was when I got a text from my writer who had been assigned to me, because he and I had a good conversation at, like, the first or second week of Raw, where it's like, I pitched all this stuff, and I was hearing through the grapevine, like, yeah, creative wants to use you, and Hunter has this plan, and he wants to, he wants you on TV every week, and I'm like, okay, good, good, I can, I can recover from this, I can, as long as I'm wrestling in the ring, I know I can make this work. And this, then, it was like a Saturday, and I was outside playing with my kids, and I got a text from my writer, I'm like, oh shit, I haven't got a text from a writer in a long time, and it's like, hey, we have you on main event versus whoever I'm wrestling in the main event. And the second I saw that, I was like, fuck, fuck. Because it's like, I know what that means. I've been here long enough, and I know what that means. That's not, that's not an opportunity. That's, that's a death sentence. And that's, and so I'm like, shit. And so, so then, I'm working with, with Paragon, which is a Mojo and Steve, and they've been outstanding. They're great. They're great. Really, I don't know what, where I would be right now without them, or where my headspace would be without them. But it would be in a bad spot right now. So, I'm very thankful to have them on board. But they're super positive. And they're like, they're both brilliant guys. Yeah, super brilliant. And, and so they're, they're stand positive. They're like, yeah, they're probably just doing this and this to, to, you know, and then online, the discourse is like, oh, they're just waiting for him to resign. They want to resign. They want to lock him in before he moves. And I know, obviously, I know, I haven't got it. I've got an offer yet. And I'm like, yeah, I don't know. And, and, and, and Mojo and Steve are reassuring. They're like, yeah, they do this all the time. They're, they're, they're just trying to get a better deal. So they're taking you down to the wire and this, that, and the other thing. And in the back of my head, I'm like, yeah, maybe, maybe. And it is, it has been remotely common. No, they're wrong or that they, they're looking at walls and roads, colored glasses. But I'm like, yeah, they're wonderful human beings. And they're looking out for my best interest. But I've been me for the past seven years. And I know how this company talks to people at my level and treats my level. And I'm familiar with, with how that works. And I'm like, it does not, it does not feel like that guys. It does not feel like that guys. And so I mean, that leads to where we are now. And I mean, I, I know for a fact that a bunch of wrestling companies, independent and otherwise are interested in you because I had people asking, is this real? Are we allowed to contact him? Etc. But when was the last contract you signed? You said that you had been through a few of them. When did you resign for this one to have expired? Was it the retribution deal or was it subsequently? There was a few after the retribution or one or two? Yeah, I don't remember the exact timeline. This deal that I want right now that ends tomorrow was signed in June on June 28 of 2021. So exactly. So that would have been like in the middle of my tag run with mace on raw. Was any part of you like, damn, they want to extend this shit? Let's go. Refres what you mean? So like when like by then retribution and kind of run its course already, were you surprised or were you expecting them to be like, yeah, we're not going to I wasn't surprised because it was a mass thing. That's how they used to be. They used to do everybody at the same time. Like, I don't, I don't know at all. Very few names have been presented to me as other people. I would not be surprised whatsoever if there are I don't want to say a number, but I would be shocked if there's not more announcements within the next seven days of people whose contracts have not been renewed because they did they basically did everybody all at the same time. So some of those people got to be cleaned up. And I mean, some of them got the same treatment as me. So I mean, it appears Natalia is one of them. I mean, she it's her stuff is pretty well out there. Oh, I have no idea. I honestly don't. There's obviously levels to this, right? That was in a time they were bringing a lot of people from NXT up all at the same time. So they had to redo all these contracts. She had already been on the main roster for, you know, decades. I don't know what chunk of her contract she was on at that point. I have no idea. I just know that they did a bunch of people all at the same time, because it was like we'd be sitting in the locker room and TR would come and be like, they want to see you. And then you'd go and be like, hey, I sent a new contract. They want to see you. And you know, we'd all go one by one and meet with whoever it was at the time. I think Karano at the time. So yeah, that's that's how that took place. And no, at that point, I wasn't even even creatively. I wasn't super shocked because at that point, we'd sort of recovered in a way because the masks were off. I was still T bar and he was still mates, but our masks were off. We're tagging. So I'm tagging with one of my best friends. We're on Monday to raw in actual feuds and stuff like we feuded with like Ali and Mansour and we're in front of the live crowds. We're getting actual feedback, rabbit actual matches and stuff. It's not quite where we want to be, but it's at least we're at least two big guys in a tag team that look kind of road warrior. Vince McMahon is calling the shots. We're like, hey, you must love big guys who beat the shit out of people. So like, we're probably in a pretty decent spot right now. And then it kind of, yeah, the draft happened. We got split up and it just it tanked for both of us. Well, not him because he got the matching mail model thing. Yeah, that fell off a cliff, which they killed. They were so good at that. They were so good at that. And I mean, as we've seen, every ingredient involved in that thing from the original four with Maxine and LA Knight and Mason Mansour are all very good. It's just man, the way that they were not propelled. It didn't help. But let's talk about a couple positives. The run back to NXT, when you found out that that was going to happen, how did you find out that was going to happen? Was that a pitch on your behalf? Because I mean, you absolutely killed it in this run. Thank you. No, it was not a pitch on my behalf because at that point, I was very scared because, again, I'm in a point in my career where two weeks prior to that, Vince McMahon was still in charge of creative. Yeah, that's true. And I'd, I might have been the last person who ever spoke to Vince in a creative aspect, because the Wednesday before the New York Whatever article came out, or that it came out on like a Wednesday or a Thursday. And the Monday before that was Monday Night Raw. And I went into Vince, Tomasso was in there talking to him, and then he came out, and I wasn't on main event. So I went in to pitch something for him. I've told this story before, but it's a really fun, funny story. Not at the time, but now in hindsight, maybe not, maybe funny is the wrong word, but it's, let me tell it. So, so I walked, it's during main event, because I know that during main event, when we're taping main event, and that's 730 window, that's the best time to talk to Vince, because he's not watching a main event. He's just sitting in the walkers. So I walk in, and I'm like, hey, sir, I have these new, I took these new, because I had had a conversation with him, maybe three or four months before this, where I was like, please, like, I want to be a top guy for you. I want to just tell me, and we had a good conversation about like, about my interests, what I'm into. I told him about my criminal justice background. He said there's something about the criminal mind that that's so I'm like, cool, great, I can get all in on this. I can do. So I did all this stuff. I put together this pitch. I wrote a backstory. I did all this stuff. I took new pictures, I have these pictures where I'm wearing kind of the trench coat and the glasses and stuff, and I have all this whole new look. I come in with this huge presentation for him, because I always did this, right? I did it just like I wrote in my little sheet, which is right here. You have two with him. I mean, Chelsea Green has spoke at length how she goes in with 20 pitches, like you got to have something there. Yeah, and none of them ever work. I would pitch everything endlessly to anyone who would listen. And so I have this binder. I have these pictures. I walk into his office in hindsight. At that point, I think he knew what was happening in his life. At the time, I didn't know. Obviously nobody knew. I walk in. I'm like, hey, sir. And he's eating his fucking steak or whatever. I'm like, sir, I have this pitch. I have these pictures. I just want to show you these new pictures. I took the feedback that you gave me and I have this new character idea. Here's the whole thing. Here's the whole presentation. I have the whole presentation for you. We're ready to go. I can do this whenever you want. It's your idea. I think it's fantastic. I think let's do this. And he looks up. It's not that hectic. You know, I do it a lot more professionally. But he looks up from his meal, and he looks at the pictures and he goes, looks good. And then he looks back down. And I'm just standing there holding these pictures and holding this presentation. I'm like, is there anything that I can do to get a chance? What do you need me to do? I will do anything. Please just give me a shot. And he looks up again. He goes, keep on, keep it on. And then he looks back down. And I look at him for like five seconds. And in my head, I go, I'm fucked. Like, I'm fired. He has nothing for me. He's not interested in ever doing anything for me. I'm totally screwed. I said, thank you. Appreciate it. And I walked out and I walked back to the locker room. And Ali was there. And I'm just staring a whole ball. And he because he knows, he knows what to stand for. He's the exact same conversation before. And so we talk about it for a little bit. And I just look at him and I say, I'm like, you and I are completely fucked in this company. I feel like you've had that revelation a few times. Yeah, no, I said, I say, we're completely fucked in this company unless the insert man either dies or retires. And he was like, yeah, that's pretty much accurate. And then two days later, the article comes out. We're like, Oh, maybe he'll retire. Well, what did you think after that emerged? And his immediate reaction was I'm on TV. What's up? Yeah. Not, not great. You know, I'm not, in WWE, there's a lot of hearsay, churns a ton of people saying this guy did this, this guy did that. I heard this happened. I heard this happen. I and you have no idea what's true and what's not. So you can't just assume everything you hear is true. I heard about that. And I saw that article. And I had heard about things like that before, not to that extent, but just like in that realm of possibility. And my brain goes, this is probably true. And so that's just seeing what it's about is like, that's not good, obviously. And then seeing his reaction to it, it's like, Ah, fuck. And so obviously over the next few weeks, there's a bunch of meetings and this and worse, Stephanie was involved somehow and how there was a mall somehow. And it's just a whole shifting and nobody knows who's in charge and blah, blah, blah, and that stuff, et cetera. Long story short, about a month goes by. Finally, it's like, okay, I have a relationship with with Hunter. So I'm gonna go, I know that everybody's been all over him, right? Because there's plenty of people who know him way better than me. I mean, numerous people said that they immediately text him, like, can I have my job back? Right. Yeah. So he's just getting bombed with stuff, right? Whether it's from us, to our wrestling now or whatever. So I'm just giving it time. I'm like, maybe something will happen. Maybe not whatever. Finally, like a month or a month and a half goes by. I'm still on main events and stuff. I think this was when you're a main event watcher. So you probably saw the best main event match in history, which was me versus Ali, where we were doing Canadian destroyers off the top rope and shit. How did that get approved, by the way? Did you have to ask anybody? Or you just do it? We just did it. We're both so we're both so untilt. I got yelled at by numerous people in the back for that, by the way. Oh my God. Both producers and talent. We're like, fuck you, you can be doing that shake. You're killing the crowd and blah, blah, blah, blah. At that point, we were just trying to rattle the cages. That's all it was. Yeah. We had been because nothing was happening. We're still on main event. I'm still T bar and I'm like, I'm like, bro, all you guys got to do is snap your fingers and I'm Dominic Dijakovic again. That's like, they did it with LA Knights. Please do it with me. Like, yes. But it wasn't. So I finally made my pitch. I made whatever. They talked about it for whatever. I got a call from Bruce. I thought for sure I was getting fired. I wasn't getting fired. He was telling me that they were moving me down to NXT for six months. I was like, Oh shit, that's awesome. Like, it's great. Also, on the other side of my shoulder, I know that almost every time someone gets sent from the main roster to NXT, they end up getting fired. It's just, it's the track record. It's what's happened. It happened with, what was Athena's name? Ember Moon. Ember Moon. Yeah. It happened with, it just had Killian Day and one of my close friends day and what happened with it. It just, it happens a lot. You get sent to NXT. You get fired. It's just what happened. So in my head, I was like, Oh, fuck, you're probably fucked or you're maybe fucked. But like, at least it's something, right? At least I get to go down swinging and dying and trying. So I had this whole pitch ready, right from the Vince stuff. I had this whole thing ready. I brought it. I, I, the second I hung up with, with, with Bruce, I got a phone call from an unknown blocked number. And I was like, Oh, who's this? I picked it up. It was very funny conversation. And I'm like, Oh, and he goes, Dominic Dijakovic. And I'm like, who's this? And he goes, Oh shit, Shawn Michaels. I'm like, Oh, hey, Shawn. Yeah. And so he's talking to me and he doesn't, he thinks I live in Orlando. So he's like, yeah, you want to come to the TV tip in the net? I'm like, I can't, I would need a flight. He's like, Oh shit, you don't, you don't live in Orlando? I'm like, no, I live in New Hampshire. He's like, Oh, I didn't, I didn't know we could use people in New Hampshire. I guess we can now. I was like, Oh shit, that's awesome. So I'm like, I guess they're gonna fly me into NXT every week. So I was the first person they ever flew into NXT. That's pretty cool. So so yeah, I meet with, I set up a meeting with him, him, Johnny Russo and Matt Bloom. I get the pitch ready. I get everything ready. The name, the gimmick. Here's the vision. Here's what I look like. Here's my gear. Here's all this stuff. I got it all mapped out. I presented it to them. And they can see it in my eyes. They can see that I presented this a million times before. And it's not anywhere. And they're like, Hey, just to let you know, like we want you to be involved and we want to hear what you have to say. And I'm like, okay, yeah, like people have told me that before. So I pitch it to them. No word of a lie. What you saw on television was exactly to a T what I presented to those three. That's incredible. They nailed it. They did exactly what my vision was. They loved it. And it was such a mutually beneficial partnership. I could not possibly be more thankful for what all of the people involved in that process and in that decision to send me there. Um, did for me. That being said, I don't think anybody knew the actual plan or what was going to happen or what could come of it. Um, I think we were all on the same page that like, Hey, let's knock it out of the park as much as we can. And then we'll get you back to the main roster. And this will be a gimmick that we can, that can translate to the main roster. And you'll have a chance up there. So up until month and a half ago, I was going really according to plan. And then it just kind of fell off a cliff for whatever reason. And I mean, during that run, we saw you have really great matches. Like everybody from, from like Von Wagner to Elia, everything from like singles matches to like underground matches, iron survivors, jail, house street, but all the, all the stuff like it really gave you an opportunity to show, no, I'm still here. I can still do this. And not only can I do this, I can do it with anyone in any type of match, whatever the ingredients might be. I mean, that had to be very, it had to be great for your confidence. It was very good. Yeah, it was, it was such an extraordinary run. Obviously there was, there was times in it where I was, like any talent, you know, you get internally frustrated because it's like, I was having lots of feuds that were ending with me losing, which is like, it's like, I'm the last person who cares about wins and losses. Like, you can ask anybody in the world, I've never complained about losing. I've never complained about booking anything like that. There's just an association in WWE specifically where if you lose, you tend to vanish off TV for a little bit. And that's just kind of what happens creatively. And if you're, if you're winning, then you're in line for championships. And if you have a championship, you're always on TV and you're always getting the first. So I was always over the mind of, you know, I just want to be on TV as much as possible wrestling in whatever capacity that is. And there were stretches in that NXT run where I'd be offered two or three weeks because I just lost a big feud. Like, Ilya beat me and then I was off TV for a little bit or there was a few premium live events in a road or in 2023 that I wasn't on. So I wasn't like the happiest camper in the world, but I was like, thankful for the opportunity and the TV time, the presentation, everything in the world. And in the back of my mind, I was like, just keep killing it, just keep killing it. Because once you get to the main roster, they'll have to you, you'll have to be a main player. They'll look at you and they'll say, he did everything we asked. And he did this, that and yet he put all these guys over. He's our guy. We're going with them. And that was not the vision. As we as we wrap up, I mean, you are contractually free. And I had tweeted a while back that yourself and Ali and Shane Hase and Mace have the opportunity to do the funniest thing of all time. Not only do you have the opportunity to do the funniest thing of all time, you can invite man Swah into the fold as well. And he can do his thing. And dare I say, you guys should invade Uganda. Maybe. Retribution's going there. They're just tilling their dirt in the wrong pattern. So WWE owns that particular IP so we can't call ourselves that. I don't think they're going to be that protective over it, Dijak. Trust me, it's written into my contract. I've reviewed a number of times. There's not a lot in there. I actually own a lot of the stuff that I say, like feast your eyes, all my catchphrase is all that stuff that they usually take because they make t-shirts, but they never made me a t-shirt. So I listen. Lord, Lord White's going to try to recruit you as white shaft. Right, maybe. My god. So, I mean, that's obviously, like, even though it was a terrible angle, terrible execution, it's still something I kind of liken it to the TNA name. After a while, people long for it. And they're like, well, we know that there was a lot of talent associated with the letters TNA. I think people know there was an awful lot of talent associated with retribution. Yeah, it's starting to encroach on the old thing good, where it's like people, people misremember the Nexus. They're like, oh, at least the Nexus, the Nexus. When the Nexus was happening, nobody liked the Nexus. For one or two weeks. And then they're like, oh, we lost Daniel Bryan. We're out. Yeah, we're out. Yeah. So yeah, listen, nobody thinks more highly of that group of individuals than me. I think if you had let us be ourselves and let us do the angle the way we wanted to, we would have knocked it out of the fucking park and we would have been the next big stable. But that didn't happen. We had to do someone else's vision. So, but now we can do it if we want. It might be a little expensive, but to get all this safe show and see match, but worth it, worth it. You'll, you'll, you'll, you're, people will watch your show just to see what it will look like. Well, listen, I, I go to black label pro shows all the time and they do 14 matches. All they got to do is scale it back to 10. And the budget will be the same. But you've got your booking info up on your Twitter. I'll ask you to recite how people can follow you because I don't know if you're going to change your handle or how that necessarily works. I had a huge issue with this when I was at T-Bar Retribution forever. Because I was in NXT for like four months before I finally was able to get a change to diejack WWE. So yeah, I'm not going to sweat over that. You know, it's when it changes, it'll change. When you type in diejack, he's the guy that comes. Well, okay, now he's one of two guys that comes up because there's another account that people think is you. And it's very well intense moment. All my socials are at diejack WWE. When that changes, I don't know what it'll change to. If maybe it'll be some other companies letters at the end, I don't know. Well, well, maybe I, I did ask Tony Khan about you today, which is the natural question. AEW, TNA, New Japan, all that stuff. He said, first off, he was floored by the question because I said, Hey, diejack's a free agent tomorrow. And also have you had any conversations with Becky Lynch or any offers? He's like, Oh, I don't want to talk about that publicly. And I mean, listen, the easy out for you would have been, he's not a free agent till tomorrow. I'm not allowed to talk about it. But he said that he greatly respects you and thinks a lot of you as a performer. So, not buried? Well, I greatly respect people of this, this, this funny idea in their head that I hate AEW and that I was this WWE show, which is not the case. I was very protective of of NXT when I was part of it, which ironically is most of AEW at this point, because black and gold just kind of shifted over brands to AEW. So for sure, if people were talking shit about about NXT, I would I would give it right back because I'm always going to feel that way about myself and about the people that I'm surrounded with and the people that I'm associated with. That being said, if you look down the AEW roster, I've wrestled probably 80% of them. And I was in between Ring of Honor and between NXT black and gold. That's like most of the roster right there, right? So I've all these people are my friends. So I'm not at no point was I ever against the idea- Hating Kenny Omega, that's what I heard on the internet. Hating Kenny Omega. So listen, I clarified this a couple of weeks or a couple months ago in a tweet. You did. Kenny and I have, as far as I know, we have no animosity towards one another. When that happened, he made the initial statement. I don't know if it was a work or a shoot or whatever. And frankly, I don't really, it doesn't bother me either way. But I heard the interview where I saw the transcription or whatever. And there were, he was taking shots at a roster that I was part of. So I took shots back because that's what I will always do. I don't care. I don't care. Vince McMahon took a shot at me. I would have tweeted at Vince McMahon, like you can go whatever, you know, I would have done the exact same thing to my boss and listen, if somebody comes at me, I'm always going to defend myself and it will always be lighthearted and light spirited. And I have the utmost respect for Kenny and everybody else in AEW. And I've never said otherwise. I've said a thousand interviews and I think he's one of the best wrestlers in the world. And that I respect both him and Cody and everybody who created AEW immensely. And I will never change my viewpoint on that. But I will also never back down from an altercation. Of course. I hope that people can respect that because that's just who I am. I respect that greatly. I do. This is probably the longest interview I've done in a long time. I want to thank you for being so generous with your time. I want to encourage everybody. Please check him out on social media. If you can't find his Twitter, just find him in the replies of Santa's apps Twitter. Just search the word ratio. Search the word ratio and he appears. Yeah, let's make it. Donovan Dijak. I want to thank you so much, man. There's still a ton of stuff I want to talk to you about. So we'll have to do another one in the future. I'm sure we're going to see each other on the road. Listen, we're probably going to be booked for the same shows. You know, I'm out there beating up people in the Indies, all that stuff. Yeah, for sure. All right, I got to go. I'm getting blown up by my wife. Guys, he's getting blown up. Until next time, we're out. Take it easy. Thanks, dude. If you're a facilities manager at a warehouse and your HVAC system goes down, it can turn up the heat, literally. But don't sweat it. Granger has you covered. Granger offers over a million industrial grade products for all your operations, including warehouse HVAC maintenance. And even better, they offer access to experts and fast delivery, so you and your warehouse can both keep your cool. Call 1-800-granger, click granger.com, or just stop by. Granger, for the ones who get it done.
