(upbeat music) Oh, Kid Doki. You ready? We good? Okay, we're rolling, then we're rolling. - So your reputation is you, you are a rule follower. (laughing) Yo, Michael'd say, I don't know what happened at the table with you, Michael'd say. So oftentimes, who know? - Oh, you know what, so here's the thing. Okay, let's get into this. Let's get into this action. (upbeat music) - This is What Now with Trevor Noah. We all know that our credit card numbers can be stolen. But you know what's harder to steal? Your face. Even though some have tried, you know, 'cause I'm famous. But with Apple Pay, all of your purchases are authenticated by you, thanks to Face ID. Yeah, it's as easy as looking in the mirror. Just double click, smile, and tap. With each tap, your card number and your purchases stay secured. Pay the Apple way, with your compatible device anywhere contactless payment is accepted. This episode is brought to you by Bogata Hotel Casino and Spa in Atlantic City. Your perfect getaway. Immerse yourself in the style and sophistication of Atlantic City's number one gaming resort, where elegance meets entertainment and luxury awaits at every turn. If you're ready for an unforgettable experience, visit the Bogata.com to book your stay today. Must be over 21 to gamble, gambling problem, call 1-800-Gambler. - This episode is brought to you by KPMG. The people at KPMG make the difference for their clients. Talented teams leveraging the right technology to uncover insights that illuminate opportunity. KPMG teams together with their clients working shoulder to shoulder to help grow and transform their enterprise. Are you ready to make the difference together? Go to visit.kpmg.us/transformation to learn more. (upbeat music) - So first and foremost, welcome. Welcome to you, the listener/viewer if you're watching this and welcome to our guests, the one and only Amir Questlove Thompson. Someone who's become synonymous with not just all things music, but I feel like all things good times, which is a great vibe. You know, when you walk through the streets, you go like, man, that person I associate with good times. - Good time, guy. - I feel like you made my time a little bit better because I was in Washington, D.C. That's where we are right now. And then I found out you're gonna be in Washington, D.C. And I'd been dying to get you on the podcast. And then as you always do, you made things happen. And I appreciate you for that genuinely. So welcome to it because we're gonna have such a great conversation today. I know it will be, you know, we're gonna be chatting about your new book, right? Hip Hop is history. We're gonna be talking about your life, your journey with music. And man, what happened at the Grammys behind the scenes? - Buckle up. (laughs) - Oh boy, I'm excited. Welcome to the podcast. - Thank you. - You know, I picked up your book and you jump into the book in maybe the most action-packed way ever. Let me tell you something. So I'm obviously biased because I was there when this was happening. But in the very- - You lost it. - Yeah, man. - Oh God, yes. That night, do you even know what was happening? - So I'll set the stage. I'll set the stage for everybody listening. So it's the Grammys, right? It is the 20, 23 Grammys, 20, 23 Grammys. - Yeah. - And this is gonna be one of the biggest years ever because hip hop is turning 50. And there's gonna be a 50th hip hop celebration that brings together almost every artist or every performer or every group from hip hop from every generation onto one stage in one mega blockbuster performance you've never seen anything like this. - Right. - And the man who is tasked with putting this together is the one and only Amir Questlove-Thompson. And you know, you talk about how you said yes before you even thought about it. They said, Amir, you wanna do this? You said yes. And just like any amazing action scene in a movie, we are completely in because we're thrust into a world where you realize very quickly that you don't just have to curate a performance that encapsulates 50 years of hip hop into like a 10, 15 minute performance, which is impossible. - Yeah, I thought it was like a whole show. I was like getting ready for it. - But then we realized you have to manage all of the egos. Please just break it down. - So one of my biggest faults is often that I'm asked to do stuff like months or years ahead of time, you know what I mean? So when someone's asking you, you know, three years before something, yeah, you're like, yeah, that'll be exciting. I'll do it three years from now. So, you know, Jesse Collins and Deanna Harmon asked me to, they have a way of pitching you that's like super exciting, like Amir, we think you should do, you know, we think you should curate the hip hop 50 thing. And I'm all like the cartoon character, you know, like when someone turns somebody into a turkey, like something salivating at the mouth and all that stuff. And instantly I got to work, I figured, okay, I'm gonna tell the story of hip hop from the break beats of 1973 to the, you know, and I'm going through all the eras and I was like, all right, maybe they'll give me a half hour. So, all right, here's my presentation. And I said, it's 31 minutes. And they, the way they laughed at me, they're like, no, no, no, no, no. They'll just give us like 10 minutes. And then once I looked at the list and realized that it was 10 minutes, I'm like, well, I'm gonna have to cut this list in half. Like I realized instantly what they really signed me up for, what they really wanted to say was, hey Amir, we would like you to be the bad cop. In this situation. And then I realized, oh, I'm gonna have to talk to people. Not only that, just go through my phone scroll, like not even the luxury of them. You're the Grammys, you can call these people. No, like I gotta get up at 5 a.m. and have a Zoom with Dr. Dre. It was the most seven intense weeks of my life of creatively cutting, whittling things down to a 10 minute, you know, standard, not to mention the amount of conversations I had to have with people that are like, wait, you want me to fly out there just to do a course? Yeah. Like I'm only doing eight bars of a course? Hell no, I ain't doing that, you know. So, and then some people are really savvy 'cause they've been in the situation before. And they'll say like, who are gonna be there? And then now I gotta be careful. Like, well, there's dada, hello, hello. 'Cause the thing is, a lot of people don't realize, some people don't wanna be in the same vicinity or on the same stage as other, 'cause it's like everyone's in hip-hop, but not everyone in hip-hop is together. Right, so then who are gonna be there was the first thing. And then now it's like, well, if I really need you to do this, then I gotta knock out these three people so that you'll show up. So there was a bunch of that. Oh man. Then at one point, there were several groups who weren't even speaking to each other. Yeah. Yo, I swear to God, when I see dada, dada, yeah. Yo, he owe me $3,000 from 1998, son. And dada, dada, dada. Look, man, I'll give you the $3,000. Oh man. So there was a bunch of that happening. So I'll jump into this part. So night off, so I've seen the rehearsals, but now the thing that people don't realize is, the rehearsals for the Grammys are broken down, right? So you rehearse when the people can rehearse. And so it isn't always chronological. You know, so like, you know, if Bad Bunny's opening the show, he might rehearse like after a whole bunch of people. And you're really doing these pieces and segments and you're doing them and you know, you got Ben Winston, who's executive producing the whole thing. And you know, you've got the director Hamish. Everyone's gonna put this together. But hip-hop 50, everyone goes, "We've never done anything like this." Everyone at the Grammys said, "We have never done anything like this." Oh, I know. And so on the night, you know, everyone is really nervous. Or like, he peering in my ear. So you had an earpiece? Yeah, I had an earpiece. I had an earpiece. So you might have known what I'm going through. Oh, I knew exactly what you were going through. But I didn't know what you personally were going through. The book, the book lays it out and it's man. So you remember, the first act, was it Bad Bunny that started the show? Yeah, so Bad Bunny started the show. So you remember that whole elaborate thing you did in the audience? Like he's coming through the audience, they're drumming, they're banging. Bad Bunny's walking through. And then all of a sudden, I hear, we need a mirror. We need, okay, guys, we've got a bit of a problem. One of the odds, we got it, we got it. And I'm like, what is happening? They're like, all right, there's too much noise on this channel. We have to switch you because something's gone wrong. So now I'm like, what's going wrong? They're like, it's not about this, it's about hip hop 50. And as soon as they say that, I'm like, oh no, what has happened? What has happened? So let me tell you. All right, so I thought my main fear, the morning up, had nothing to do with the production. I was fine with rehearsals and everything. Like creatively, we were good. There was a new problem. And the new problem was because first lady, Jill Biden was in the house, there's a more intense level of security detail than normal, which, you know, okay, I've been to the White House a few times, whatever, I understand you're gonna have to go through several stages of going through metal detectors and all that. You know, there's a few of my peers in the world of hip hop that are like, nah, son, never, like a never again thing. A never again thing. Like they see metal detectors and they're like, nope, I'm good. So just to kind of appease two of these particular figures, we had to go through hell and high water just to make sure that was cool, right? Which, once I realized the last person was finally in the house, I had two good hours of whoosh. So I got changed, you know. - Yeah, you were walking the red carpet. - Right, I went to the red carpet and, you know, mess with Taylor a little bit. You know, we took her around. - We took her around. - And then jokes to Taylor Swift, living the good life. - Right, everything was fine. And then the second they introduced Bad Bunny, suddenly I just started getting like code red, code red light, get backstage right now. And what I was told was that one of our participants is on his way back to his house in Calabasas because maybe or maybe not a security person was a little overzealous in checking our friend's date. - Yeah. - He's instantly like, no. Like it was just like this person's not coming back. So what they don't realize is that because we're on a very specific clock in terms of camera coordination, all the visuals you see. - Every cue at the Grammy. - The lights, the dancers. - Every cue are so specific. - And that person didn't drop out from the front or the back. They dropped out from the middle. - Right, it's not like a thing where I could just instantly like, hey, we're cutting that song. Now nine key people who are not in contact with each other have to be told that we're gonna lose like four minutes and 27 seconds to like six minutes and six seconds. We have to cut that part out. But the thing is, is a live show. And the show's happening already. So you gotta wait till commercials and then run to the light guy and say, look, during the hip hop 50, four minutes and 27 seconds, six minutes. Then you gotta go to the camera person, then you gotta go to the graphics person, then you gotta go to the choreographer. And then you gotta tell the dancers, take guys, I'm sorry, but that and I just dropped out. So we won't be using you. Like these people flew out, you know, told their family, I'm gonna be on TV, hey? - They've been rehearsing. - Right. So it took about 28 minutes to just tell all those people that this particular artist has dropped out. - Wow. - And I thought, okay, we're good. And then part two happens, which is-- - Oh man. - Some genius decided, and I'm being sarcastic, to present the Album of the Year award before the presentation. - Yeah. - And the thing is, it's like, look, dog, this is Kendrick Lamar's time. Like you've awarded this guy the Pulitzer Prize, you know, he's achieved things. - He's the favorites. - We already know this. You know, we already know this. - But does hip hop know it the same way? 'Cause I feel like-- - Those are part of hip hop. - That's what I mean. I feel like nobody in hip hop comes to an award show thinking that they're not gonna win the award. - Kendrick, rightfully, won that Grammy, and one of the nominees was like, psh, I'm going home. - And that nominee was in the performance. I remember this happening in my year. I got a call from Ben, he was like, Trev mate. He's like, we just lost another hip hop performer. We're gonna try and figure it out, but for now, we might need to move things around. We just gotta, and he's like, and then it was panic again. - Yo, so it's four minutes left, and we just, and we begged him as he's walking out like, yo, can you please? Can you, no, I'm going home. And so you got, we have four minutes, one to make all the edits, but then I need somebody to end this thing. And I'll tell you what I did. I found the closet. I said, I opened the closet and went in there like, I'm here, that's not a room. I'm here. And they're like, what are you doing in there? - I'm in silence. - And literally, I just sat there for two minutes, dead silence. Like, all right, what am I gonna do? - I thought you were having a mental breakdown. 'Cause I heard, I heard during the cost, they were like, things are going crazy, things are going wild. And then someone said, Amir just went into like a broom closet, and he won't come out. And I was like, well, I guess he finally cracked. - No, so this is what I learned about-- - The unstoppable force known as Questlove finally cracked. - People think that meditation is like cosmic prayer. Meditation is just, you gotta sit in silence for a long time and breathe. And the answer will come to you. Now, let two minutes go by, and you can clearly hear them outside the door, like-- - Yeah, yeah, yeah. (humming) - And I was like, I did that for two minutes. Two minutes left, Amir. And I said, I grabbed my phone. I was like, I can either text Jay-Z right now, or Little Uzi Vert. And something told me, by Jay-Z, he's not the king of known. Let me stop putting that out there. But-- - But he is the king of known. - He's been known to be-- - He's been known to be-- - No, no, no, but he is the king of known. I think in many ways, I think in many ways, Jay has understood the thing that you and I are still working on. He goes, thank you, but no. - Scare City marketing. - No. - Which I would love to, oh, I would love that. Matter of fact, during the whole Zoom thing of me having the pitch people, Dr. Dre also taught me something, because he gave me a no. And I was like, all right, I'm asking him in two weeks, and nudge him like, come on, pal, keep, can you do this for me? And Dr. Dre, in a way that I haven't seen since my father before, you know, like, when you cross that line-- - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. - And your parent wants to give you that warning before all hell breaks loose. Dr. Dre's in a very serious way which I now use on people. - Yeah. - He says, "Quest, let me tell you something." I really hate to say no twice. - Damn. - And the silence that ended. I was like, one, okay. I will never ask you to do anything in life. Two, I gotta use that, like, literally. But Jay said no, and I was just like, all right, let me just, let me hit Uzi or someone close to him. So I texted his team, and as I pressed send, - Your phone dies. - My phone went out. - And so this is crazy, 'cause on the outside, we're like, we don't know what's gonna happen. We don't know how it's gonna happen. It plays up, and I won't spoil all of it, 'cause I want people to read the book, but on the outside, yo. Let me tell you this, you nailed it though, you nailed it. You genuinely, like, and Jay Z was part of it basically. Jay Z wrapped them on to every single song. - Jay Z wound up being the star of the show. Him as audience member was better than him going on. - No, it was one of the greatest performances ever, ever, ever, ever, ever. - We're gonna continue this conversation right after this short break. This episode is brought to you by the podcast, Tools and Weapons with Brad Smith. You know, one of my favorite subjects to discuss is technology, because when you think about it, there are a few things in the world that can improve or destroy the world, like the technologies that humans create. The question is, how do we find the balance? Well, one of my favorite podcasts that aims to find the answers to these questions is hosted by my good friend, Brad Smith, the vice chair and president of Microsoft. From AI to cybersecurity and even sustainability, every episode takes a fascinating look at the best ways we can use technology to shape the world. Follow and listen to Tools and Weapons with Brad Smith on Spotify now. This episode is brought to you by Ricola. I think we can all agree that having an irritated throat is one of the worst feelings. Thankfully, there's an easy solution. Ricola cherry drops. It provides the soothing throat relief you need and even better, it's packed with flavor. So you can make every day more delicious and still feel great. Try Ricola cherry drops now to find out where to buy it near you, visit Ricola.com. (upbeat music) You know, there are few people who write a book about a topic that they are so inextricably linked to. You know, when you talk about the story of hip hop, in many ways, I feel like hip hop has had the same journey that you have had as a human being and the two of you have been intertwined, you know, like twin souls because hip hop today seems obvious. You know, I went to a Rangers game in New York. Someone invited me, they're like, "Do you wanna come watch a hockey game?" I went and the thing that struck me the most was in a stadium that was 99.99% white. Every time out, they played hip hop. And so I wanna know from your perspective, what was the first moment where you felt like hip hop was going to maybe be a thing? 'Cause you talk about being this child who was, I love how you even phrase it, you say you were eight years old and you were hearing hip hop for the first time, you're washing the dishes with your sister. My sister and I were doing the dishes and the intro of rappers delight comes on and then we hear sheaks good times. So we're just like, "Oh, it's good times." And then we started hearing people talk, rapping and we just stopped doing the dishes like, "Wait, what is this?" And you know, it was like a clock radio in the kitchen so we turn it up and we look at it. And the long of the song went on, I thought like, "Oh, I'll never hear this again in my life." So it was a decision to make. Said, "I run and get a tape recorder "and record what I'm hearing." Which is exactly what I did. Like I ran right to my room, got a tape recorder, put the tape recorder to the radio, the clock radio, recorded it and just sat there and listened. You know, rappers delight was 15 minutes, so I came in at like maybe the three minute part and I wrote that entire song down. I'm supposed to be in bed like eight, eight, 30. You know, I was eight years old. I probably stayed up. I was allowed to stay up to maybe nine, 30 and I transcribed all the lyrics and then I went to school the next day, me performing rappers delight for like all my fourth grade class members. And that's, you know, of course like adults were like, "Oh, never last, it's a fad." But when it really called to me was in 1988, so there was like a 50s themed McDonald's called Big Owls based on Happy Days and I worked there. And this is the morning that it takes a nation of millions by public enemy came out, which if you know of their production style, it was a very, they wanted to sound like music's worst nightmares. So they would just pack in like 19 samples in one song. - Right. - Just sound the like, they said that they wanted their music to sound like what crack feels like when you, 'cause it was the crack here. - Oh damn, I didn't know that. - Which is why all my chapters are based on the five year. - Yes, yes, yeah. - The first phase, cocaine, second phase or not. - You have one of the more interesting ways of breaking hip hop down. Like where most people would talk about hip hop just in a decade or most, you know, they would say this was an era, you broke hip hop down by the drug that was pervasive at the time. And you know it's one of those things, in stand up we always talk about it, we go, there's always that moment where a comedian will get on stage and they will say something so painfully obvious that you don't understand why you never saw it, but it is so genius because nobody could see it because it was right in front of them. I feel like you revealed that with the way you broke hip hop down. Like-- - Well when Chuck D said like we wanted to be music's worst of nightmare and because it was the crack era, he wanted his music to sound what crack felt like. - Right. - And then I realized, oh so when the chronic came five years later, Dr. Dre slowed the music down and that has to sound the weed. But then when the 97 bad boy era really started to kick in, that was the sexy, that's the ecstasy era. And then when the South first started coming in, that's the scissor era. And then of course with Molly, Opioids, Fentanyl, like we're going through each phase. Every five years are the drug of choice that we self-soothe on changes, that's how the music changes. - Right. - This is the numbing era. This is the era of no feelings. I don't want to feel numb. - Damn. - And some people are totally emo. So you even 12,000% emo or no feelings, which is why everyone sounds numb or so. Like that's why mumble culture doesn't make sense to my generation. Like I grew up in the crack era. - Right, because it doesn't match up with what you experienced or how you were living, how you were living that life. - I genuinely love how you find these threads, how you connect them, how you, in the book, you talk about your journey in hip hop, the roots' journey in hip hop. And I love the connection that you have with Tariq, where it's like, here we are seeing the foundations of black thought and quest love, seeing them go from boys growing up, as you say, from tweens to teens, from teens to young men. And then you're in hip hop. - See, our narrative was that we were working class musicians, which really isn't sexy. (laughing) There's nothing sexy about, hey, we're hardworking then. Because the narrative, a lot of the narrative, especially of the crack era, which is 1987 to 1992, is the idea of winning, which is why the idea of Scarface, we don't love the movie Scarface, the idea of Scarface is what we love. If anything, I think like Jay's life sort of mirrors that, like I'm a buck the system, and then I'm gonna evolve and become the system. That's pretty much how America was built, like off of-- - Oh, every one, yeah, the Kennedy's, the Rockefellas, you name it. - You grow up money, and then somehow they became the-- - Right, you become the establishment. - The establishment, the respectable establishment. For us, though, had to recognize, again, even the idea, we were really the roots of name only, because we went to high school. When you're in high school and boys to men, are boys to men in high school? (laughing) And I don't mean like this before they had a record deal, but it was like the Beatles on Sullivan. They would walk down the block and grow. (laughing) And singin' the girls in the bathroom. They're like, "Ah, they're cheap, man." Like, singin' the girls. Like, we can't do that. And so we started a group, but it was in name only, and it was only when I was coming back from my audition. I auditioned to go to the new school or a Juilliard, and coming back home to reek was with me for my audition. This real pretty girl in kind of a grapeoo pond commercial way says, "Excuse me." Are you the drummer that plays in that Spike Lee bucket commercial? Now, yes. I was the drummer in the Boys to Men Motown Philly video, but because a very popular Spike Lee commercial for the gap, where it was like a bucket drummer. We see musicians busking all the time, but back in 1991, it was weird to see a guy playing drumsticks in a bucket, and she was so beautiful. I said, "No, I'm not." And she was like, "Oh, okay." And she sauntered off and left the train, and Tariq looked at me like, "You dumb from the front, you dumb!" And so cut to the next day, we're watching Soul Train, and that Spike Lee commercial comes on. - Yeah. - And literally, it was like the Eureka, what I call the Doc Brown flex capacitor inspiration moment. Like, we just slow looked at each other like, "Yo, let's do that!" And cut to two hours later, us going to South Street, busking, and the summer of 1992 is kind of where a year later, we'll have a record deal, and we will be the roots, as you know it at least. - Right. - And the thing is, is that in our narrative, like we just never had a story of like, we won. And that's what hip hop was at the time, right? I won, I got more than you. - Right. - You know, we were telling the truth. We weren't rich, we weren't, you know-- - Put your rollies in the sky, waving sets aside. - We didn't think a lot of people. Or, I don't think it's a line of people, I think it's sort of manifesting what your future is, and then it comes. - But okay, but then what do you think, what do you think the secret to your staying power has been as a group? - When people used to ask before, I would playfully joke that, you know, the reason why the roots existed for 30 plus years is because two tour buses, and I say Slytherin and Gryffindor. But I now realize something, which is, oftentimes artists have this obsession with perfection. - Yeah. - Your Michael Jackson, like it must be perfect. Prince's world famous for a person is being like 15 hours a day, perfection, perfection. That's not the key. The key is, like when you're trying to manage your destiny or rehearse your destiny, it never works. Literally, all you have to do is left foot, right foot, left foot, right foot. And yeah, some of those times are at trepidation, there've been moments where like, I don't like the way the audience looks like, "Ah, they don't know who we are." - Yeah, yeah. - You know, and I'll overthink it. But it's just show up. So I don't think, you know, people, well, you guys are super talented. You know, you dah, dah, dah, dah. You have the ability to collaborate with whoever. Nah, we're still, we just, we show up. And that's literally, I believe that's the true answer. I tried to make science of it out of it all like, well, you know, 'cause we're responsible word, you know, we're drug free, or we're, you know-- - No, we went to count-- - Just show up. - Ah, we just, you literally show up. - But you know what I think it is? I think, I'd love to hear what you think it is as well. It's like, I think as artists, if we're honest about it, there is a great fear that comes with doing what we're doing because you are directly attached to the product that you are creating. It is a direct expression of who you are. It's a direct moment where you're exposing yourself. It's like another opportunity to be rejected. It's another opportunity for it to not go right. It's another opportunity. You know, like, let's say the music itself can go on without you, but when we talk about, let's say, life performance, every life performance is a new performance. Do you know what I mean? You step on stage, and if your timing is off, and if your drumming is off, and you know, and if thought misses some lyrics, or if he messes something up, that crowd doesn't say, "Oh no, it's fine because the album is perfect." They go, "That was terrible." - But-- - You know? - You show me someone, I mean, no one actively plans on. Let me ruin this moment. - Yeah. But I guarantee you, at least 90% of the time, it's someone that's in their head. I've learned that worrying is literally praying to be sabotaged. - Uh-huh. - Man, I hope I don't drop a drumstick when you worry, when you allow your brain to go to that place. - Yeah, to focus on the thing. - Shout out to Lauren Zander for inventing the term man-of-fucking. That's when you start man-of-fucking. So, it's, I guarantee you behind every moment of that level of sabotage or bad performance, that's because a person's mind's not clear. I don't, like, before you go on stage, 'cause your level of entertainment is more intimate, because you have to talk to people. - Yeah. - Like, do you at least, I have to sit in silence 15 minutes before I go on stage, or DJ, just so that I can ground myself and get in that zone. - I'm the complete opposite. - Oh, you got to be all hyped in listening to music-- - No, no, no, no, no, I just, so it's funny, everyone has a different routine. So, Chris Rock, he has, like, he almost has, like, a meditative Zen, everyone has to leave the room, and then he focuses and he goes in, but he's also-- - 'Cause he still has that Prince-- - I think so. - 'Cause he has his Prince soldier. - Yeah, but I think he's also one of the most precise comedians, so I get why he needs that, you know, and then Kevin Hart, he's, like, a lot more loose. He'll just do the thing, he'll laugh with people, you know. Dave Chappelle's always playing music. That's one thing, like, when you walk backstage, Dave Chappelle is playing music, and the music is setting the scene, setting the vibe. For me, it's people. I need my people backstage, because-- - Really? - Yeah, because the thing I'm trying to do is, for me, I'm trying to bring you Trevor when I get on stage. I don't wanna become somebody else. I'm not trying to become somebody else. I'm trying to introduce you to the funniest version of who I am, and that is, like, when people know me. When people meet me for the first time, a lot of people are disappointed. They're like, "Oh, man, I thought you'd be a-- "I thought you'd be a little more-- "I thought you'd speak more. "I thought you'd be funny, I thought--" But I'm like, "No, most of the time I'm processing information, "I'm observing the world, I'm quiet." - I was about to say, you're the first comedian I met that, like, if any particular artist has kind of a duplicitous existence, where it's Dr. Jekyll and-- - Yeah, right. - Comedians, to me, are that, like, every comedian I know is like, "Life of the Party" on stage. - Yeah. - But the level of darkness that I witness out of it, and then I realize, like, "Oh, comedy is one of the best "distracting nothing to see here. "Like, I don't want you to see the real me, "so let me be funny as hell to throw off the smoke." But you actually, you might be the beginning of a new generation that might be genuinely you and adjusted, at least from outside looking in. - Yeah, no, honestly, I try to be, I try to be as much as I can, because I realize this, and maybe you can relate as a performer. What I realized was, if I'm gonna spend my life doing something, then I would like to spend my life doing something that'll help me be the best version of me, versus spending my life doing something where I'm somebody else, and then I have to come to grips with the other person I am whenever I come off stage. Do you know what I'm saying? - Yeah, I know. - So that's why what I'm trying to do is, I walk out onto the stage and I'm trying my best for you as the audience to feel what I'm like with my friends, and if you meet me in the street and if I'm at a restaurant, that's me. That's just how I am, because then I don't have to turn it on, and I don't have to turn it off, and I don't have to think about who's, well, which Trevor's coming today, which Trevor's showing up, no, I like that. - I used to worry about that, because I think, at least for me, it was really, I'm gonna even weirder space, because I know I have people that admire me, but it's not, again, it's not the Beatles' Hard Day's Night. Like, no pack of girls aren't chasing me down an alleyway, and it's weird, like, sometimes I'll walk down the block, and it's always like, you know, some guys like, dog. Like, that album changed my life, and back in college, and thank you very much, and it's always, and I'll be high, like, wow, thanks. And then what always happens is, whoever he's with, usually he's dated or whatever, I can hear maybe, like, five seconds of the conversation as I walk away, and it's always the tune of like, "You don't know, Questlove?" You know the roots, you know, Jimmy Fallon, you know, you know, you're in the full Smiths' night, you know, you know, I don't know, Questlove? And that always just, but I used to always, I would say that I was the person that would sort of self-evident reasons why I don't deserve stuff. - That's interesting. - So... - You talk a little bit about that in the book. - That's gonna ground me. - I actually would like to get into that. Like, you know, in the book you talk about almost experiencing hip-hop through an anti-hip-hop lens, and not against hip-hop, but rather the machismo in hip-hop, the vibe, you know, for instance, even when we talk about weight, there's a really fascinating part of the book where you're talking about how, you know, biggie and big pun and fat Joe and all of these artists, how they use their weight in a different way. Rick Ross, you name it, and you very candidly share your story and how like, you are grappling with your weight in a different way, and you don't seem to have the same command over it, and it's not, it's almost not a tool and you're awesome though. - I never thought this could be sexy. (laughing) - Yeah, for me, I realized superlated my life that we are going to self-soothe on something when we're not aligned. - Yeah. - Like, I now don't, I don't see like a cocaine addict as like, oh, you just chose drugs. I now think like, okay, you're self-soothing because of another issue. - Right. - And there's different types of addictions that we don't think about. Like, we don't think that, yes, there's the greatest hits one, there's drugs and alcohol, there's gambling, but then there's some other that we don't think about. And for a lot of it, the amount of times that I've like, celebratory, like, let's go to dinner. - Yeah, yeah. - Or, you know, in the studio, I'll just have, you know, my writer, like, 10 different types of cereals. Like, I didn't realize the amount of times that I would just casually, I'm a foodie, I write books about food, so, you know, I called it, my excuse was being a foodie, but then someone challenged me once. During the pandemic, like, well, I dare you to not do that. And we'll see if you're an addict. And literally, like, I was, like, Chris Rock in New Jack City, like, and he kept the crush, and he kept, and I didn't realize that, that was my drug, you know? And I didn't realize that this was my shield to keep people away from it. - Wow. - You don't realize that at the time. So, and it's in everyday struggle. Like, just to, you know, I want to be an example without being the guy that you like, you see on Instagram and I want to be the, I don't want to be the hall monitor. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You don't think it's stuck that type, yeah. - I want to lead by example. So, I mean, the fact that Chuck, flavor, iced tea, LL in a few seconds, are making it to 60, is like, that's a true reason for celebration. But I also know that those individuals have also reached a crossroads in their lives where they have to, you know, I didn't know that Chuck D revealed to me that, you know, he does meditations. - Yeah. - And do these things that I used to laugh at. I used to laugh at all yoga, meditating. - But then how did you find the balance? How did you, you know, one of the things I noticed about us as people is we risk swinging wildly from one extreme to another. So, I'll meet people who, like you say, they self-soothe. They, whether it's food or whether it's partying or whatever it is. And then I meet them and then now it's like, they self-soothe by being the complete opposite and it's extreme and nothing is a joke, brother. Let me pray with you for a moment. Let me meditate with you in this moment and I don't, everything is a devil and, yeah? - You know, when people get a new toy. - Yeah. - Like, I had cousins come home for jail. Like, you know, when you do a bit in jail, like, you're going to either find God or, you know, have my family with Muslim, you know. Like, prayer rug in the middle of the street. Like, all right, all right, here we go, all right. Give you a lot, all right. Now, can we talk about, you know, TV again? I was that person and then I realized like, you gotta be the example instead of preaching the example. - I wanted to ask you that about music. Do you, are you able to listen to music without the, like, the rule? And I don't mean the rules of like, what music is supposed to be or not be. But there are a few people I know of who can break music down. So for instance, you have these playlists that you'll send out to people, right? And one of the reasons I love your playlists is because I love discovering new music. So when you listen to music, I'd love to know, like, are you able to turn off your precision and your perfection? Or are there moments where like, it bites at you? - I'm a stickler for detail. - Okay. - And so, the reputation of the roots being a band, whatever, is often the fact that we can mirror, mirror exactly what the song does. - Got it. - Kind of in a, not in a karaoke way, but, you know, the artist always says, "Wow, you gotta sound just like the record." - Exactly. - Right. - And so... - I'm always on the band about, like, no. The thing goes like this on the record. You know, does the average layman person care? Probably not. Am I tightly wound? Probably so. But someone has to be the captain. So that's usually where I'll get the ridicule. Like, I know on the other roots thread without a mirror. (laughing) That's where I know where the conversation's going. But the reason why, or the main reason why I did these playlists, I think I started doing this way back. Blue Ivy was born when, like, 2013, I think. - Yeah, I'm terrible with yours. - Yeah. - 2013, 2012, around that era. And so, my gift to the artist was like, "Look, and this is back when it was just the iPods." I said, "What I'm gonna do is I'm gonna fill up a whole bunch of music with iPods and in our crib, you know, just have this music playing." - Oh man, it's beautiful. - And then, you know, 'cause I think if you can get kids before there's, and I don't mean like, I'm not the guy on a guy that wants you to listen to the music I listen to. - But it's just being exposed to, it's like languages. - I think it expands your mind. So I initially started making iPods for the Carters, but then Jay will be like, "Yeah, we kept them things to ourselves." Like, (laughing) And then the other thing was kind of my occasional eye roll at Obama's Summer Playlist, like, "Okay, all right, who's really feeding you this music? All right, let me, let me-- - Man, nobody gives them credit, come on. - Let me, let me-- (laughing) And I'll hit 'em up, I'm like, "Yo, dog." Like, okay, your trainer's doing this like your interns. So what wound up happening was initially, first lady Michelle had me make her a bunch of playlists 'cause she was doing like a book tour and when I called music to play when she would do her speeches, whatever. And then it just started expanding. So it's, to me, I'm the guy that's willing to, you know, do the needle and haystack for the perfect song. All those songs that I choose are songs that like that give me goosebumps. Like, no song is on there by accident. - Okay, not to put you on the spot, but if you were to choose five, just five songs, where you go-- - See? - No, no, no, just like, and it might be like, it might even be the top of mind that I'm looking for. I know I'm putting you on the spot. - I'm gonna tell you something. From five genres where you go, you're on an island, you're trapped, this is it. Five songs for the rest of the time. You can't even make music. Five songs. - When off the clock, I don't listen to music more than I listen to like ambient noises. - Oh, that is fast. - So right now, like, if you would say like, what is my favorite song? For me, fork tuning, fork tuning music is my all time. It's not even music anymore. (laughing) The sounds of like that to me is like, 'cause I need that, my life is so chaotic. But I mean, if you just want me to name like tangible songs or tangible music, I would choose, okay. If you're a fan of Brian Wilson of The Beach Boys, and you know the story of how he struggled for 40 years to make the follow up to the Pet Sounds album, he finally completed this album, I think in 2009, 2010 or whatever, like finally it's in its complete stage. It's called Smile. And there's a song called Wind Chimes that is just my relaxing place. - So that's the relaxing one? I like this one. - That's a relaxing one. Number two, Bill Withers has a version of Grandma's hands on Live From Carnegie Hall. - Okay. - 1972, '73, that has a long monologue at the beginning of it. And when I was a kid, my parents and grandparents used to always make me perform the monologue. - Oh wow. - Bill's telling the story of what it was like growing up in West Virginia and his grandma's house and going to church. And it was like the comedian thing, like white churches and black churches. Black churches do this, white churches do this. And I used to do that routine when I was like three or four. So let's say the live version of Grandma's hands. - Okay, live version, what does that do feeling wise for you? - It's probably the rosiest childhood memory I have. - Okay, okay. So it's like, it's warm. - Yeah, it's that warm feeling. - All right, okay. - There's a song called There Comes a Time by the Tony Williams group. Tony Williams was the drummer for Miles Davis. He went solo and did a song called There Comes a Time. There Comes a Time was the first night of the roots, as you know it, when we saw the commercial and went on South Street to busk. - Yeah. - It was such a victory night that at the end of the night, we took our $120 and we went to Wawa and to get a hoagie and some lemonade. And we just sat in the car like feeling accomplished, thinking like, so we gonna do this next week or? Yeah, we gonna do this next week. We might make $200 and this avant-garde DJ had played Tony Williams There Comes a Time. We just thought it was the oddest thing we ever heard. And it turns out, we don't know it at the time, but that DJ will wind up being like the roots' brain trust and longtime manager until we pass away. - Oh, wow. - Okay, Richard Nichols. So, we will meet that person in about three months, not knowing that he was the DJ for jazz 9D. - Yeah, man, that's beautiful. - So that's the weird one. So we got calmly, we got calmly, we got calmly, we got weird, is there like a hype song? - For my generation, when Rebel Without a Pause came out by Public Enemy, the song actually encapsulates the angst that teenage me feels inside that can't express it. - Right, right. - This loud, siren noise that keeps going, like, it's every parent's nightmare, but for me, it's like, yeah, this is how I feel inside, you know? So Rebel Without a Pause by Public Enemy. - I like that, okay. - I like catharsis, I like that, all right. - The last song, I'll say, is a rather normal song, but there's a moment where, in 1983, Prince releases a remix version of Little Red Corvette. Now, are you familiar with the phrase, it's called code switching? - Yeah. - So code switching, for those that don't know, oftentimes, if you come from one side of town, you might often have to chameleonize yourself to adjust to where you're going. - Switching to that office voice. - Right, so if I'm back in my old neighborhood, - Well, thank you for staying at home. - Good to see you again, buddy. - Right, exactly, at home, I know to lower my voice. Hey, what's up, man? How you doing? Yeah, I'll take a turn for my rice and, huh? What? Oh, well, that's what's up, y'all, thanks, thanks. But when I'm at office, hello there, how are you? - Right, it's a level code switching. Prince, what makes Prince such a genius is often when he releases singles, he knew what he would have to do in order to gain the audience that he wanted. - Oh, interesting. - Which is why songs like Raspberry Barre exists, which is why, like, nice songs, like, "Take Me With You" exists. There's a level of wink, wink it so that he's doing to a wider audience that he's trying to grab. But he's also telling his black audience, I know where I came from, you know what I mean? So he'll often remix a song and blackenize it in very subtle ways that you'll notice it. - Okay. - So what happens is 12-year-old me is thinking that he's hearing the album version of Little Rick Corvette. But then suddenly, in the three-minute period, the bass line changes. And I'm like, wait, this feels different. This is not the AM/FM radio rock song that Little Rick Corvette was. Suddenly, it's black as shit. So what I'll later learn is that, oftentimes, for a pop radio, you'll want to stick to major chords because it feels safe and it feels inviting. Minor chords, the black keys, are often dark and that's sort of up our alley. It's funkier, it has edge to it. There's mystery to it, there's bite to it. And the moment I realized that you can turn any song into the major version, which is safer, or the minor version, which is edgier, that totally transformed me. So for me, hearing Little Rick Corvette, the remix dance version, just that made Prince God in my mind. - Unlocked something in you. - In a way that no other artist could do that. - Don't go anywhere 'cause we got more what now, after this. - This episode is brought to you by Lowe's. Looking forward to a summer of hosting envy-inducing cookouts and parties? Lowe's wants to help you be the host with the most this summer. That's why they're giving you deals on everything, everything you need for summer entertaining with their Fourth of July savings. With deals across the entire store, it's your best chance of getting ahead of all your summer DIY. Lowe's knows summer savings. Click or tap the banner to shop July 4 savings online now, or shop in store at Lowe's. We all know that our credit card numbers can be stolen. But you know what's harder to steal? Your face. Even though some have tried, you know, 'cause I'm famous. But with Apple Pay, all of your purchases are authenticated by you, thanks to Face ID. Yeah, it's as easy as looking in the mirror. Just double click, smile, and tap. With each tap, your card number and your purchases stay secured. Pay the Apple way with your compatible device anywhere contactless payment is accepted. (upbeat music) You know, I'll tell you this, Amir, like, there are few things that I have been to or experienced where there is more law that is spread about them than your legendary game lights. Yo, people's, the amount of law and fiction and myth about your game lights is out of this war. People ask me questions. It's almost like your game night has become Illuminati because people will say to me, they'll be like, "Trevor, I saw you made it into one of Questlove's game nights. "For you to tell what happens in there. "I heard that there are people." And you're like, "It's a game night, it's just a game night." Someone once joked to me, they were like, you know, I can't believe you hit jackpot doing one of the most wholesome. It is the most wholesome event. It's so wholesome, I'm embarrassed. The reason why I don't talk about it, the reason why I'm sort of like a fight club with it isn't because we're doing this debaucherous Studio 54 thing. It's Studio 54 levels of fun, but it's so damn square. And I think I happen to know that that's the specific reason why people come over. 'Cause the thing is like, okay, we'll invite about, maybe we'll try to aim for 60 people and we'll carefully curate things. And I gotta go through, you know, some people have security details, some people have, you've seen the amount of people that have been here. But the thing is is that it's such an unpretentious, normal moment. I'll give you an example. All right, so the first time that Taylor Swift came, it was literally to zero fanfare. Like she just walked in and I didn't even know, I didn't even know she was there until 10 minutes in and I was like, oh, okay, she did show it. That's what's up. She sits down at Bumbi's table and plays Uno. And that's the thing, like what I realized, the reason why I threw game night is because I don't, I work so much. I don't prioritize joy and fun things. And I'll figure out a way to monetize my joy. Like DJing used to be my joy. It's still my joy. But now I'm gonna show you a job. But it's a job, it's an occupation. Drumming is a job and an occupation. Journaling is a job and an occupation, but these used to be my passions. So with game night at least, there is a four to five hour period in which 60 strangers are amongst each other, just playing around. But then the next night, I'll get the text and it'll just be like, yo man, like, dude, thank you so much. I got to talk to J.J. Abrams about what I thought. And this designer's talking to that writer and it's not even a leadist thing 'cause I have. - No, no, no. Half of the room is just friends of Questlove who nobody knows from anything or anywhere that's just, you know, that was the most fun I had was sitting at the table with your boy. I don't even know where he's from. - But it also, but it also tells me a lot about people. The way Michael Chay hit me like, yo, dog, man, I was like, yo, you have fun 'cause this whole thing was like, he couldn't, Michael Chay was one of them cats that couldn't quite realize like, wait, so we're going, we're just coming to play games? - Yeah. - And I'm like, yeah, we even had like one particular artist who's like security detail had to come and sweep the place and they asked us like, so where's your medic at? And I was like, medic. I was like, yeah, you know, medic in case something happens. I was like, I said, dog, I ain't that type of party. Like, they're like, wait, you guys are really here and the way they laugh like, you're here to play Uno. - To play games? - Yeah. - And I was like, yeah, and they looked at each other like, wait, that's all y'all doing? I was like, yeah, we're playing games and they couldn't believe it. And then they witnessed it and was like, oh, this was fun, but literally at the end of the night, I hit him and I was like, so what'd you think? And he was just like, man, it's like Trevor Kip. Now, I know Chase is the type of guy that will pull another rule out of his hat without a stab. - Completely, completely. - Right, so. - Let's get into this. I like how people would be like, your reputation is that you're a rule follower. - But so am I. - No, but here's the thing that's more specific for me. - Okay. - I'm competitive, okay, we start with this. I'm competitive. And the thing I never understand is this, if we cannot agree on the rules of a game, then how can we agree on who has won or lost said game? - Right. - The thing that gets me is I'll be, let's just agree on the rules. I'll be playing Uno with somebody. I'll be playing Crazy Eight with somebody. I'll be playing whatever card game it is. I'll be playing a game with somebody. And then they'll go, oh no, that doesn't do that. So it's like, okay, wait, let me just, look, official rules, this is what I'm saying. Official rules of Uno is that if somebody puts down a take two, you cannot add to that. Now, I'm saying, I play the game where you can as well, but let's, yo man, I can play and one. I can play NBA. I can play, you know what I mean, 3v3. I can play every style of game. - A lot of my black guests. All right, so I got a lot of pushback from my black guests. - Because we add, we stack. - Right, so there's levels of stacking. - And I love stacking, but let's agree that we're stacking. - I get it, yes, you're right. - And so, let's agree, people, that's what I'm saying. But sometimes what happens is, it goes off or around the table, and then someone else goes, oh no, but we don't, you don't stack, and then everyone at the table is like, oh okay, no, not okay. So here's what happened on that one in particular. So we weren't playing one game. So what I love about your game nights is, you'll get to a table, you'll find a game. You don't even know what game you're gonna play. So you get to the table, there's a whole bunch of games laid out, and on this occasion, there was a Bobby version of Uno, okay? I've never played before, I don't think anyone's played before. - I was saying this every type of game. - Yeah, there was like a special type of Bobby Uno. So now there were new rules. - Yes. - Okay, so now everyone's at the table going, what do we do? Now, I'm not the kind of person who will pontificate on the possibilities of playing when I can just pull out the instructions. - The rule books, right. - If we don't know how to play the game, let's read the instruction. So I go, let me read the rules. Michael Che goes, of course you're gonna read the rules. Then I'm like, what do you mean, of course I'm, do you not wish to know how to play the game? He's like, I'm sure we can figure it out. I'm like, we cannot figure it out. I don't know what a Muggle Robbie card does. I don't know if you do. He's like, we can figure it out. No, Michael Che, we cannot figure it out. And my thing is, Michael Che's so cool. He's gonna be like, he's gonna ooze cool. But he's one of those people who have confidently walked down the wrong road. - Right. - Just like, I'm the kind of person to be like, let's pull out a map and see if we're headed in the right direction. - You and I are the same, right? We're one of the same. - So I read the rules, and it turns out like the America Ferrera card and the Muggle Robbie card are very different. - Exactly. - And there's a lot of things you got. The Issa Rae card has a different vibe. - Yeah. - You know what I mean? The Kate McKinnon card does a completely different thing. So these are all things that I was trying to explain to the group so we could make the game fun. 'Cause if the rules don't exist, then the game is-- - Michael Che-- - Yeah, you got a reputation as the whole monitor. - Man, he, even at the table, he was roasting me. He roasting, you know where I had every trauma from school come back. - I knew it. - I felt like a nerd who had actually done the reading or actually done-- - Teachers bet, teachers bet. - That was him. - Right, exactly. That was him. Michael's like the only thing there. - Well, it was good for someone to have it instead of me 'cause I'm always the teacher. - You're usually that guy. - So I was like, all right, Trevor took the heat off me. - This is like, I'm here for game night. I'm not here for socializing night. I'm here for game night. The socializing is secondary to that experience. So I'm here predominantly for the game. - I've realized, so moving forward, we decided that each table should have their own captain and that captain will establish what the house rules are. - Now that is what I'm talking about. - So next time, Trevor, you will have your own table. It's your-- - I don't even need to be a captain. I just need the captain to know what the rules of the game are. - No, you're a captain, dog. Like-- - Eh, I'll take it. I love it, man. Thank you so much. Thank you for being here now. 'Cause honestly, this is, wow. - Thank you. (upbeat music) - What now with Trevor Noah is produced by Spotify Studios in partnership with Day Zero Productions and Full Well 73. The show is executive produced by Trevor Noah, Ben Winston, Sunaz Yameen, and Jodi Avogan. Our senior producer is Jess Hackle, Marina Henke, and Claire Slaughter are our producers. Music, mixing, and mastering by Hannah Sproun. Thank you so much for listening. Join me next Thursday for another episode of What Now. (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) [BLANK_AUDIO]
