Gateway to Baseball Heaven: A St. Louis Cardinals Podcast

GTBH 6/30/24: Insert Larry David Gif Here

Every week, two of the Best Fans in Baseball (TM) bring you all the news and analysis you need about the St. Louis Cardinals. The Cards finished a 7-3 homestand by taking a series against the Braves and splitting a four gamer with the Reds. That's good! However, the run production was minimal and some of the pitching stalwarts got blown up. That's bad! Daniel (@C70) and David (@iPopEditor) try to sort out exactly how they feel about this team with all its flaws. Plus discussion of the trade deadline, the All-Star Game, and much more!

Duration:: 45m
Broadcast on:: 30 Jun 2024
Audio Format:: mp3

(upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) Good evening and welcome into another edition of Gateway to Baseball Heaven. I'm your host, Daniel Schopt at C70. And with me, as always, David Jones. Adipop editor coming to you after the Cardinals split another four game series. This time with the Reds, it went on Sunday again, David. This is starting to become a little bit of a trend. After having so many Sundays ruined by Cardinals losses, they won like three in the last four or something like that. - You know, it's been pretty impressive. If what's also impressive is in the time it took you to do that intro, I think the Reds tried to bunt a runner over two more times. So congrats to David Bell on not knowing baseball in 2024. But yeah, the wins on Sunday, I'm still not used to it. Kind of puts me in a good mood. I like taking naps on Sunday. I like naps even better when I wake up and the Cardinals can win or are winning or have one after it. So yeah, we're coming off a seven and three home stand. There's a lot to be excited about, even if we have some reason to question some of it. - Given everything that I saw about this Reds, which isn't much granted, but you know, every time I tried to check the play-by-play, it seemed like they were stealing a bass. So I don't really know why they were trying to bunt people over 'cause they didn't seem to have much trouble moving on to the extra base. At least one game, what was it? Five steals on Thursday night. And again, we continue to just know that you're really in this door and we just have to get used to the new normal. - Yeah, and unfortunately the new normal is people stealing off the Cardinals. Now, like you said, I don't know what the Reds were thinking. They even brought up a pinch hitter to bunt somebody over. I mean, it just kind of blows my mind some of the time, some of the crazy things that they were doing. You know, David Bell, I guess, disciple of Mike Bethini in some ways. - They did work together. - But together. - Yeah, it was just a little bit odd, but yes, the base stealing is a little bit concerning. We saw that with Herrera. And now we're seeing it with Contreras. I don't know if that has to do with the arms still not, you know, everything in the mechanics, getting things back to normal. And I know we're talking to different arm and stuff like that, but maybe, I don't know, pop time, stuff like that, but the Reds are very, very good at stealing bases. The Cardinals are very, very bad at throwing out runners. It was just a very bad matchup for the Cardinals, but you hope this isn't something that continues to get exploited in the series to come. - Yeah, you would hope not. And even with the new rules, I don't think baseball, you know, I think there's a lot of people thought that baseball was going to start getting back, not maybe not completely, but somewhat toward the old 80s, you know, running gun type of baseball. And I don't think we've seen that. I mean, there are people that can do that here and there, but it's not widespread. So you may, even if you give up a stolen base here and there that you might not have otherwise, that's not a big deal. It's when they start running, basically everybody at will that you start to get concerned. - Yeah. And, you know, looking at how some of the games played out, there were times where you see, you know, the Cardinals get a reliever in the game. There's a runner on first and one out. The Cardinals have a lead and you think, okay, well, I'm okay if they bump this guy over and they get two outs or whatever, or, you know, a single, at least a single's not going to tie the game at this point because there's a runner on first, but then, you know, somebody swipes second and then they swipe third suddenly, you've got a runner in scoring position less than two outs and things start looking a little bit grim. And that's where you start playing with fire, especially when you're in your bullpen because it makes it very easy for the team, whoever you're playing, to tie the games and the game into extras, make it closer than you want to. It seems like a theme that we've seen with the Cardinals a lot this year and especially we've seen it the last 10 games, is that when the Cardinals lose, it becomes very apparent very soon. They lose and they lose hard. When they win, they win very close games. There are a few games where the Cardinals are going out there and winning 10 to one. There's few games that they're losing three to two. It seems like it's one way or the other and it's either going to be a nail biter or, you know, it's over pretty quickly. - Yeah, I mean, we talked about it. I think I saw a stat earlier on when the game is five runs or more, the Cardinals are four and 12. They, you know, they don't win games like, but there's a reason that Ryan Hellsley this weekend, you know, today reached his 30th save and where you're just now past the halfway point while we're game 82, 83. So we're right there. So, you know, basically on pace for 60 saves and given the fact that, you know, anytime the Cardinals are winning, they're winning by one or two runs and they can't afford not to bring him out there, it seems unlikely that that's going to change, at least the pace of him coming out there. Now, you can argue that maybe his effectiveness might change and that's a different story. But, you know, the Cardinals, and that's what we've talked about, right? That they continue to use the big guns and we're seeing a little bit of less effectiveness, although, you know, again, the Cardinals twice this weekend shut out the Reds and that meant, you know, those guys pitched and pitched well. - Yeah, and, you know, sometimes we're grasping at straws to try to find negative things or there's negative things that are kind of in the details, but the overall picture's pretty good. Coming into this homestand, my goal was, I say my goal like I'm playing, but my goal was for the Cardinals to win the series against the Giants, win the series against Atlanta, which I thought would be very difficult, and then split a four game with Cincinnati. They did one better than that by sweeping the Giants, taking the Atlanta series and then splitting with Cincinnati. But you look at the bullpen sum in these games, it was one of those things where we talk about bending, but not breaking. Hell's Lee, his ERA looks really good. His whip does not. He has been walking guys, he's been allowing some hits, but he's getting the job done. And ultimately, that's the big thing. Now, we could project that and say, well, eventually he's going to break or eventually he's gonna start blowing saves. Yeah, maybe probably, but it hasn't happened. And so, living in the now, living in reality, he's getting the job done. And even if he's giving up a hit here, giving up two hits or making the game so close or it's requiring a Brendan Donovan catch at the wall that might have been a home run, he's still getting the saves and the Cardinals are getting the wins. And that's been a big part of it, that even when he may not look his best, he is still getting the job done. He's closing the door. Then you have games like today, where he just looks fantastic. And so that has been a big part of their success. It seems like when he has a little bit of a cushion, he knows he has a little bit of a cushion and is still looking to locate that fastball sometimes, but he's getting the job done. And as much as I can nitpick about some of the details and some of the problems that went on in this homestand, this team went seven and three against some tough teams and including a division rival in the last 10 games. There are only two teams in baseball with a better record in the Cardinals, which is pretty amazing when you think how poorly this team started. But out of all the teams in baseball, only two teams were better than the Cardinals in the last 10 games, you know, I'll take it. I'll take the results even if I don't love the details. - Yeah, I mean, it is very difficult. We were talking about this before we started. It feels like we should be on here ranting about this team because they score as many runs in the red series total as the reds do on Thursday night. It feels like they have to scratch and claw or everything they have, but like you said, I mean, they are one of the best teams in baseball for over an extended period of time, right? And they are getting the job done. They're never gonna get into that run differential the way that they're going. I mean, they very well may wind up with a winning record and a negative run differential just because they're gonna win a whole lot of one run games and lose a whole lot of four or five run games. But I mean, it's difficult to argue with the fact that they are in the wild card spot. They have a wild card as of right now. They're two games up on the Mets. And they've just kind of done it, right? I mean, we don't really know how and we don't know how sustainable it is, but you gotta ride the wave while you can. - Yeah, and I love it when people bring up the run differential. I think it's minus 40 right now. Worst in the NL Central and that looks bad. And so when you're doing the expected wins losses, the Cardinals are playing above what's been expected, but this is not the same team that we saw in the first four weeks of the season. This is a very different team. It kind of runs, I was talking to a friend yesterday about, we were talking about Chase Davis, just stick with the Cardinals here. If you look at Chase Davis in the minors right now, he's hitting about 2.30 something. His numbers don't look that good, but if you look at his numbers in June, he's hitting like 3.20 something. And so if you look at his overall body of work, you can say, oh, he's not that impressive, you know, he seems like he's kind of a bust, but you look at him over the second half of the season so far, as far as what's been played, the guy looks like the guy they wanted. And so you're really excited with that. And so I think it's kind of the same thing with the Cardinals run differential. Yeah, they don't look great and they don't win some of these games and a lot of style. They're not winning games by 15 runs, but this is a very different team from who we saw at the beginning of the year. And where I think they do deserve some credit, this team is still not healthy. Now, we hope that they will be soon or healthy-er, but this is a team that's actually been writing Michael Ciani for a while and props to Michael Ciani, who's been incredible on defense and who has been an amazing hitter in the last couple of weeks. But, you know, that's not what we expected. And you could say he was essentially the fifth string out fielder, fifth string center fielder this year. And so you've had to rely on guys like him. You've had to rely on guys like Pahace some this year. And those guys have been playing above what's expected. So you get some of these guys back from entry. We hope that some of the Cardinals that have lots of potential start playing to their potential. And we may not be seeing the best of this team yet. - Yeah, I mean, you know, large new bar in Springfield right now doing rehab. So it seems fairly likely that, I don't know if it'll be about it for the Pittsburgh series, but definitely by next weekend, you would think that you've got a good chance of seeing him unless something goes wrong, which it's large anymore. You never know. You know, Tommy Edmond twisted an ankle. I haven't heard if he got back on the horse after that to some degree, if he's back hitting or not, but it did not sound like it was a significant thing. So he still may be back while they all start break. There are pieces there that may make this better. And Jordan Walker continues to seemingly continues to get better at AAA. And, you know, again, will we see him at some point in time? So you're right, this isn't the team that they thought they were gonna have and to be able to more than tread water is a testament. Again, it's a testament to what the rest of the mage nationally looks like, but it's also a testament to what they've done with what they've had. - Yeah, and, you know, this has been talked about all season, but if the superstars start playing like the superstars, then who knows what could happen? The problem is we don't know if that's going to happen. You know, I hate to go to a negative tone here, but, you know, Nolan Aronado, he has just not bit himself. Now, look over the last couple of weeks. Yeah, he's got above a 300 average, but his slugging is 400. The guy everything he's hitting is a single. Paul Goldschmidt, back down. I mean, you start seeing flashes of him and yet then you see nothing. He just completely drops off. And that's where we are again. Nolan Gorman looks completely lost at the plate. That's one of those situations where I gotta think if Tommy Edmund's healthy, Gorman's sitting a little bit, but those three guys just don't have it right now. They are so far gone, so far lost. If they can start getting something out of them, you don't even have to get potential. If you just get 80% of who they usually are, or who they should be, this team's going to be doing a lot better. But, you know, Mason wins kind of in a slump right now. It's amazing that the Cardinals have been winning. Like I said, Siane Paheis, even Matt Carpenter has been one of those guys who's been contributing. We've seen Alec Burleson step up, even though he's kind of been slumping a little bit. So it's really amazing that they're finding ways to win, but they are finding ways to win. But you gotta think at some point, some of these guys, some of these guys gotta start clicking. At least for one or two people, and maybe that is Newt coming up. Maybe it is the return of Jordan Walker or Tommy Edmund. Somebody just to give a little bit of a spark, but you gotta think you're not gonna have four or five of your veterans continue to all slump at the same time. - I mean, you would hope not. You would hope not. You know, that being said, I mean, again, especially with Goldie and Nolan, you know, we've seen good stretches from Nolan Gorman, but the other two, you know, we'll see a game or two that are pretty strong, and you start thinking maybe here they come. And then they, you know, go over four and strike out twice and leave the base loaded. And, you know, it's just back down to that. It just does, it's very hard to imagine this late in the season. And that doesn't mean it can't happen, but it's hard to imagine them, you know, playing like they can for half a season, right? I mean, even if both of them, you know, turned it on and played like that, yeah, sure, great. That would be amazing if they could play at that 80% level. But, you know, after it's hard to imagine that given the body of work we've seen this year, does that mean they're, you know, completely washed up? I don't think so. You know, Goldschmidt probably isn't back next year, so it may not matter. But I still think, you know, Nolan's probably got a good year or two in him somewhere down the way. And, you know, I don't know that this is a, this is what we're gonna have to deal with the next five or years or whatever the case may be. But it's, it's just hard to see how things turn around this year, because man, if it was going to, if you think it would have by now. Yeah, and what do you think it is with these guys? And it may be a different answer for each one, but with our nada with Goldschmidt, is it, is it a mental thing? Is it mechanical? Is this one of those things that we find out after the season's over that like somebody's playing with like a torn labrum or a bad back or something? What do you think is going on here? Because I don't buy the whole age thing. I don't think it happens that quickly. - Well, I mean, yeah, I definitely don't know that I'm buying that on, on no. And, you know, Goldie being a little bit older and has, you know, he slowed down some last year. And what we're seeing on them, not being able to necessarily hit fastballs, you know, maybe, maybe I would buy it a little bit more for Goldschmidt. But yeah, I don't know. I don't know if it's a, a mental approach that they're just not, or they're just not seeing the ball well. You know, maybe they need to, you know, get contacts or something like that. I say that a little bit flippantly. But, you know, it is weird, right? I mean, we've talked about it much over the year. Everybody has how much they are, it is not just them, but they're some of the main culprits of staring at pitches that are right down central and then start flailing at things that are way off the plate. You know, and, you know, you go back to, hey, maybe they're just not picking this stuff up. And if not, why not? You know, again, I feel like that's a situation that if there was something like that, they'd have, you know, somebody on the training staff or something would have picked it up by now. But I mean, I don't know, you're right. You wouldn't expect, not that it can happen, but you wouldn't expect somebody to just, you know, kind of take a step off and just fall flat on their face. Now, granted, both of these guys struggled a little bit last year. And so maybe I think that makes a little bit more of an argument for, you know, its age and then people, you know, this is two years in a row, but it does feel like there should be more than just, you know, just that. - Yeah, and, you know, we've seen, we saw R and I don't get hit with the baseball. We know he was dealing with some nerve stuff. Maybe can't grip the bat. You know, even seeing him boot the ball Saturday, what should have been a tailor-made double play that could have ended the inning and kept the game at two to one, he boots a ball and the game gets to eight to one. Just things along that nature that you just don't expect from him. His defense early in the year was kind of rough. It got better, but it hasn't been quite to what we expect. And so I do just wonder, I mean, my feeling is, these guys may be dealing with mystery injuries. And I say mystery being that the public doesn't know it, but the staff is very aware of it, but they're trying to play through. I know Ollie talked about how when they played the double header against Atlanta that he got a call from Aronado the night before saying, "Hey, I want to play in both games," which is admirable, but you wonder if he's trying to push through something that, and it could be one of those things that rest isn't going to help it. It's going to take an off-season to help it. But you hope that maybe somewhere along the line, things can get back. Looking at Goldie, I mean, he's on pace to strike out 200 times this year. That would be a career record by a long shot. And so, yeah, just things just look off for both guys right now. You see flashes every once in a while, and I don't know if that's an accident when it happens, but you gotta think just if one of these guys gets going just a little bit, or Nolan Gorman, or Contreras, just somebody starts getting it. The Cardinals are doing enough, and the pitching right now seems like it has been good enough that they can actually start winning a little bit more than they actually are. You hope. Yeah, I mean, I think if you would go into this, if you said at the beginning of the year that at the halfway point, the Cardinals are in the wildcard, and it's based on their pitching. Nobody's gonna believe you, right? I mean, it just wasn't, I mean, or they would have thought, okay, it's a little bit better than we expected, but the offense is doing well enough, the bullpen and all that. But we've seen really good results out of the starters for the most part. Now, this week we saw a rough outing for Sunny Gray. We saw a little bit of rough outing for Kyle Gibson. Then we saw two good outings for Lance Lynn, which is at the point where last week we were kind of writing him off because of how much he had struggled to kind of turn it around is nice to see. And it feels like that's what's gonna happen the rest of the way, right? That you're gonna get good games, you're gonna get bad games, and you just gotta hope that the good games are not, the offense is there enough that they don't lose them, 'cause they can't afford to lose games where Michael just gives up one run over six innings or something like that. They can't afford to lose those kind of games because they're gonna wind up turning around and having a game where, you know, Gibson or Lynn or whoever, you know, Plante maybe that give up five or six and you're not gonna win that game. So, you know, again, I feel like you're teetering just a little bit. You're definitely in a better situation than you would expect. And you're at a spot now where it's not unlikely but they can keep this going until you get to the trading deadline. And then you can hopefully bring in a starter or something that can help maybe give you even better chances to having good games and those out of those starters. - Yeah, you're right about Lance Lynn. He was absolutely fantastic this week. This week and I feel like we may or I may need to owe him an apology. We were critical of him, which I think you said, we should probably continue being critical of him if that's how he pitches afterwards. And if that's actually working, I'd like to make a list of guys. I'd like to be critical of this week if it's gonna cause him to pitch like Lance Lynn and see if that will happen. But Lynn was fantastic. Matthew Libertor, holy smokes. I mean, what a start from him. The guy had everything going. Now, I'm curious to see if he gets another start and what he does with it because we saw that last year after the Tampa Bay game, he really struggled his next start and it seemed like the previous started taking so much out of him he didn't have anything left. So curious to see if he can get another one and carry that over. But that did give me some hope. Both of those guys, Lance Lynn showing that, hey, maybe I'm not old and washed up that I can actually go out and do this 'cause I was starting to think that he just, the guy had lost his control, didn't have anything. If Libertor can be that guy or close to that guy for two thirds of his starts, holy smokes. I mean, that was nasty stuff that he was out there throwing. But yeah, so there is some optimism there, but you're, you know, Gibson struggled, like you said. Sonny Gray struggled. Michaelists, you don't know what you're gonna get, but you know very quickly in a game what you're gonna get from him. And it hasn't been pretty lately. And so the Cardinals desperately do need somebody just either to step up or to come in. And you hope that maybe it can be Libertor. Maybe, I think we kind of, what we're seeing from Palante, I think is kind of what you're going to get. You're gonna get a guy who's gonna go out there. He can win you some games. He's also gonna get shelled some other games. So right now, Libertor is kind of the wild card. You kind of know what you're gonna get from everybody else, but another pitcher would desperately help. I will continue to beat the drum on this that I believe the Cardinals need two starting pitchers because of everything that's gone on. Because really you've got maybe two guys that you can rely on each time they go out. And after that, it's kind of a black hole and you don't know what you're gonna get. But yeah, it's the all-star break probably cannot come soon enough for both the starting rotation and the bullpen. You know, you said who would we have been surprised that the pitching was carrying them this way? I wonder if John Mosalock would have been surprised. He may act like he's not, but he may be surprised. But, you know, again, not to get pessimistic, but you look at the Cardinals record right now, 43 and 40, that's kind of where we expected them to be at this point. Beginning of the season, that's about what we would have predicted for them. What we did not predict is how bad the rest of the national league would be. So the Cardinals look a little bit better because of the downfall of everybody else. But this is about what we thought this team would be. That being said, we have seen that this team does have the potential to be a whole lot better because we believe the offense should be a whole lot better and the pitching does have room to improve. So there is optimism looking forward that this team can be a better team than it's already been and the team that it's been is currently in a playoff spot. - Yeah, I mean, right now it feels to me like, it feels like right now you're gonna get three good starts out of the five pitchers every time through. It's gonna be different each time, right? I mean, you hope Sunny Gray's gonna give you a good one then you might get a good one out of Gibson and Lynn or you might get one out of Libertor like we saw. It would be nice if they could do something to make you feel more like four out of five, right? I mean, that getting some sort of veteran guy. Now again, we'll see how it shakes out over the next month. But with so many teams hanging in there, there's not gonna be too many sellers and everybody that's, you know, and there's gonna be a whole lot of buyers and everybody's gonna be buying pitching 'cause that's what everybody does. So, you know, again, I don't know how you go out. I'm not disagreeing that they need to. I just don't know, I'm not 100% sure how they can get one with the way these things are going. They've got to figure that out. They've got to be able to get somebody. But, you know, when you look at all these teams that may be in it, you know, I don't know where those available starters are gonna come from. - I completely agree. And one of the worst things for the Cardinals is for the Mets and the Padres to be in it near the trade deadline. Because they are willing to do stupid stuff to get the guys they want. Those are the teams you want to be sellers. You want the Mets trying to sell Severino. You want the Padres not having their crazy owner trying to do whatever it takes to get the top of the guy who's available. And so I think that's going to be the issue. There are gonna be so many teams involved. Now, maybe the Cubs start falling off, but you know the Cardinals aren't getting anybody from the Cubs. Maybe it's the Nationals that are falling off a little bit too. But yeah, I don't think we're gonna see too many sellers and there's gonna be so many buyers that it's gonna drive the price up. And so I mentioned this before, but I think if you're looking for two guys, you're probably not getting a Montgomery Cantana. You're probably getting more of a Lester and Hap. And if you were having to basically split your assets to get two different players, that's probably what you're looking at. You're gonna be bringing a guy in or maybe two guys in with a 4.5, 4.6 ERA. And we're gonna hear that phrase innings eater again. Or we're gonna hear about how great he was in 2021 or something like that, or how great he was in the playoffs three years ago, something along those lines. So yeah, I don't see them picking up a number two and number three, I think you're looking probably somebody further down the list. As long as these teams stay there. Now, if we can see some separation happen, then maybe that changes things a little bit. But I think that you're gonna have some huge spenders here, teams that are a little bit crazy, things that have teams that have better prospects. But then there's the also, the other thing that you've talked about before that I keep forgetting about is how close the Cardinals are to the luxury tax threshold that they can't really take on a huge contract of a pitch or even if he was available. I mean, that is somewhat true. I mean, they were what? I think that when they didn't get me going, they were like $20 million away from it. And being that you'd be pro-rating it now, you're getting basically, 'cause you're not making it to the deadline, you're taking on a third of the contract. That helps them something, especially if it's a somebody that's not got control for next year. - True, yes. - And I don't think they're getting guys like that. I mean, I guess it's possible. Maybe some of that option. But so it may not be too bad, 'cause even if you're taking on a $30 million contract, that's only like $10 million for the Cardinals to pay. And that's not including what they can negotiate down. And that would be feasible, because that's what they left that room for, right? They left it for in-season additions and things of that nature. So it becomes an issue. - Yeah, it becomes an issue if you're going after two starters and a reliever maybe. - Right, right. I mean, you get into multiple people. Now, it depends on what you're sending out to, and you're probably not sending off major league contracts, but you're right. I mean, if you're going after one, it's not a big deal. If you're getting after two or three pieces, then yeah, then it becomes, what are they willing to do? Now, I think, I don't know. I mean, it may be that they would be willing to go slightly over it if they had to in this kind of situation, 'cause you've got to know, it's just the same thing we said. It's beginning of the year when they did want to go over it, but you've got to know that if they feel like they can get into October, they really want to, right? And now is different than the beginning of the year, 'cause the beginning of the year, it's, okay, we think we can. Now, it's, especially if things hold here between now and the end of July, it's like we're currently in the, in there. We've got to do something to make sure we stay there. And so, maybe they're a little bit more willing to, not likely, but if it's a, "Hey, we need this guy and this guy," and it's going to put us slightly over, the problem is I think that they figure out your threshold at the end of the year, and then you pay the tax the whole time. It's not like it's a pro-rated tax too. So that could, that could be cause an issue. - You're the numbers guy. So I'm just going to trust you on all that stuff because I don't have a clue what you're just saying. This just turned into a presidential debate. (laughing) Yeah, but I'm just going to defer to you on that one. - I will make sure not to actually finish my sentences. I do that quite often, so. - How's your golf swing? What's your handicap? - My handicaps are mini and varied, but they have nothing to do with golf. (laughing) Anyway. So we also got to see a bit of it. We got to see Gordon Griseff help come up this week. And I honestly didn't realize until even after we'd started that they sent him back down and brought up Jacob Sockovich. - Yeah, I was going to say good luck. - Yeah, that sounds good. - Jacob, yeah. - Yeah, and so, but it was nice to see Griseff help get added to the 40 man, get a chance to call up. And it sounds like he would have stayed, except for the fact that apparently again, because they have to do this all the time, the bullpen is on fumes. It seems like that's every day, right? I mean, it's like the Cardinals have four guys that are not available almost every day on the bullpen. And they're having to do this kind of stuff, even when starters go, okay, right? I mean, you got two decent starts out of this series. And then somehow they still have to make this move to make sure that they're covered because everybody's tired. - Yeah, and it's almost humorous because the bullpen, this is how unlucky and some ways the bullpen has been. The other night when they were getting blown out in their game, Brandon Crawford was up in the pin getting ready to pitch and Dylan Carlson ruins it because MLB has that new rule about, your lead has to be so much. And so Ryan Fernandez had to get up and throw in inning, like it, which is just kind of ridiculous, the way they made that rule. And for the ninth inning, things like that. But yeah, that's an inning that you had to burn Fernandez for. So probably not available, you know, the next game for that. But yeah, this bullpen is struggling. Looking at the numbers like Romero, he has had a really rough past 10 games or so. Kitridge hit that dip, he's been a little bit better. And like, Helsley, like we've talked about, he's come close to blowing him, but he hasn't. But yeah, this bullpen seems like it is gassed. And so we are seeing that Memphis shuttle take hold again. And so it is nice when you have a guy like Recetho who can come up and essentially, it's kind of like he threw a start in a sense just later in the game, a piggyback game. That really saved the Cardinals. I'm sure they would have loved to actually had him for a different type of situation, but he did what he needed to do. And so I think we're gonna see this a little more often until we get to the All-Star game. You know, I was thinking All-Star game comes up and Helsley will probably be the representative from the Cardinals, but you kind of hope he doesn't get into the game. I'm sure that they would love to have a guy throw in 100 and 102 in the All-Star game 'cause it looks really good. As a Cardinals fan, this is the one time where you don't wanna see your guy actually on the screen because you want him to be able to rest his arm. You don't wanna have to use him at all. And so yeah, this bullpen, they need some rest. They need reinforcements. And that's probably not coming mid-year except for Memphis. But yeah, they need a breather here and there because we're starting to see it. But I think other teams are too. We saw that happen with the Braves. They brought in Holmes who had like a 2.8 ERA and he got rocked by the Cardinals. And so other teams are dealing with this too, but yeah, this is close to us and we're seeing it happen right in front of our eyes and the big three are becoming the tired three and they're kind of limping along until we get to that break. It does feel like, hopefully, he's gonna be representative. I don't know that the shortstop situation probably keeps Mason win out. Obviously, nobody's gonna get elected. I mean, I think the Cardinals, like they're fifth or sixth is the highest they ever showing up in elections. And it does feel like it's that year of just one Cardinal which I have never, I might be one of the few, I have never had a problem. Maybe because I grew up in those, remember those '90s when Ozzy Smith was the only representative. I've never have a problem with just that idea of every team has to have somebody on the team because I think every fan base should have somebody, even if you didn't get into a game that they can look for and root for and point out on the screen. Well, or at least you could point out on the screen until Major League Baseball did stupid stuff like putting them all in the same jersey. But that's another rant, so. - Yeah, I'm with you though. And I think if it becomes such an issue, you just expand the rosters. There's no harm in doing that for an all-star game, especially when we've seen some almost go extras or go extras and you're running out of players. So yeah, let everybody have a representative expand the rosters if you need to. But yeah, I think give people a chance to watch, a chance to cheer for their favorite person, absolutely. - Yeah, I mean, you can take this, the all-star game one of two ways and you can make it a serious competition, a real game and the bench people don't get into the games. Like they used to do it in the '50s and '60s, right? What's damn usual would get four or five at bats in an all-star game, which doesn't have it at all now. Or you can make it an exhibition and let everybody play and nobody cares about anything. And the problem is baseball has tried to have both and it doesn't work, right? I mean, you can't pretend like this actually is any kind of a game when you're pinching for guys that got voted in in the second or third inning. - Which is another thing that I think is frustrating as well because you're taking out the people that, there are people that the fans wanted to see that will play less than the people that got picked by, you know, a manager or something like that. - Yeah, I'm with you completely on that. - I'm a grumpy old man when it comes to the all-star game because I don't think I don't like it 'cause I do. I think it's really cool. I think baseball does a darn good job of brewing in it. Which is stunning has kind of done that in recent years. - Yeah, I mean, NBA, I guess, they just don't play defense, right? I mean, I literally, they stand aside and let them just, I mean, they like sit on the bench and let them run up and down for a while in that, with the cases. And, you know, football didn't even bother. You know, are they playing flag football now? - They are, yeah. - Yeah, so I mean, and hockey, I don't know about hockey very much. I know they have a pretty interesting skills competition like the day before, but I don't know about the actual all-star game. - Hockey's kind of cool 'cause they did the three on three, but it like goes on all day long. It's just kind of like a bunch of kids going out there and playing a tournament together. So yeah, it's, yeah, every league's kind of struggling with what to do with it right now. - Sure, sure. - But yeah, I think that if the Cardinals can, can get to that point and still be, you know, a game, two games, three games up in the wild card. I mean, you like the idea of having four days off for almost everybody. And even if Helsey does pitch in that game, you know, he'll have the day off before and then two days off later. And then, you know, who knows, you know, you could in theory have a day or two on each side depending on the, you know, how the games go. Although the Cardinals do have that double header, you know, the Saturday before they all start break. So he'd probably get into at least one of those games. You know, you're going to Atlanta right after the all start break. There's no guarantee that, you know, he'll be needed in that first game and could have some tabs off. So, but everybody else will get, you know, a few days off and hopefully feel a lot better about him. - Yeah, I would just prefer not to see him pitch, but hey, if he does, maybe he can get a five inning, or five, oh, please no, five pitch or six pitch save. Let's not do a five or six inning thing. Yeah, you know, when Larissa would coach the All-Star teams, I would always hope that he would put like, that was when Arald's Chapman was with the Cubs. And I thought it'd be great if he just had him go throw seven innings or something out there, or even put him at catcher or something like that. Just trying to ruin him. But yeah, especially with the comments Dusty Baker is making the time. But yeah, it's going to be the one time that I don't want to see a cardinal in a game. But, you know, with the way the All-Star game is, the National League could be losing 13 to nothing, and they still might put him in. So yeah, who knows. - And I think that, I don't know, it feels like in the past, managers, like Ollie Morrow would have some input, even though he's on the staff, you know, he talks to, I don't know, he's managing Diamondbacks manager, right? He talks to that staff and says, hey, if you don't need him, don't use him. You know, I really, you know, that kind of thing. That kind of thing is like, hey, we really, he really needs the rest, or he's dealing with this or that. And, you know, you don't really want to sort of tell that to, you know, other opponents. But I think that they have in the past kind of worked around that, to the idea of, hey, we don't need him. We're not going to use this guy. - Yeah. I mean, Lavolo, he did make certain comments to Yadi that he shouldn't have. So I think he kind of owes the Cardinals one. - Fair. We'll send Yadi as a representative to make sure that things, the message is sent. But anyway, so yeah, Cardinals have Pittsburgh this week as part of the holiday and then the Nationals. A weird four game series, you don't see them too often, but that weird wraparound end on Monday four game series coming up. So next week when we record, we won't have another game still left in the series. And again, we've talked about the schedule quite a bit, but these are games that the Cardinals, you know, should be able to win. The Pirates are a pretty decent team, depending on who's on this mound. But you still, you just took two or three in St. Louis against them, not too long ago. You'd like to think you could take two or three in Pittsburgh. And then, I mean, I think splitting with the Nationals is about the minimum you can do. I'd like to see them do more than that, but given how they did with the Rockies and what they did this week with the Reds and four game series, probably splitting it is all we can ask for. - Coming into this season, this is the part of the schedule I would have looked at and said that this is very favorable for the Cardinals. Pirates, Nationals, Royals, that's the part where you think you got to just sweep up in this. And yet, this could be very difficult. The Pirates are throwing out Keller and Jones in the first two games. The Cardinals are not going to see Skeens, but still, those are two very good pitchers that the Cardinals are going to have to face. Nationals somehow are in this wildcard race. So they're playing competitive baseball. So that makes things a little bit difficult. And they've got Kansas City at home for two, but Kansas City is really good this year. So this could be a tough stretch. But like you said, these are games that you should win. But the pitching matchups, at least for the Pittsburgh series, the Cardinals are probably not going to be favored for two of those games. So they really need to pull out a series win. That would be really big to take two of three. And yeah, I would be happy again. Anytime it's a four game series, no matter if it's home or road, I'm happy with a split. Because so many crazy things can happen when you play a team for four games. So yeah, splitting on the road would be absolutely fine with me. But that Pittsburgh series is going to be sneaky. And you hope that the Cardinals can eke out a couple wins from that one. You don't want to get Pittsburgh any life either. You don't want to get them the thought that they can actually get back into this wild card race or the central race or something like that. And so it would be nice to kind of push them down a little bit. Yeah, I mean, the good thing is it feels unlikely. Pittsburgh makes any kind of move at the deadline, right? Because their ownership is terrible. And they'll always say it's, you know, next year is our year. Even though right now, yeah, they're three games out of that rap, three games behind the Cardinals. So in theory, depending on how everybody else works, you know, they could sweep the Cardinals and be in the, you know, be there. They'll be tied for that wild card spot. And they'd have to jump some teams. That probably wouldn't happen. So yeah, I think that you're right. You don't want them alive. You want to do what you can do against the central teams. And, you know, we'll see how that works. Right, not having necessarily the best pitching match-ups. And that's how Pittsburgh is going to win, right? I mean, over the next little bit is these starters. If they can develop a team to go around them, they could be dangerous in a couple of years. We talked about them at the beginning of this year, being close to making that step into contention, at least in the central. And they really are, right? I mean, they're not going to necessarily chase down the Brewers, but they're right there in that mix with everybody else. Yeah, they're a team that if you're another team, you do not want to see the Pirates in a playoff series. You definitely don't want to see them in a three-game series. You would rather see the Pirates in the Cardinals because of the way their rotation is. And so just depending on the pitching match-ups, each time you play them, you're possibly the underdog. Now, their offense is struggling. It leaves something to be desired. But yeah, they have a pitching staff that could go out there. And they've got three starters that can go out and throw a shutout or seven shutout innings each time. And so they are scary. Now, maybe they'll do what they've done in the past and they'll end up trading some of these guys away for nothing. We'll see. It always cracks me up that they got more for Archer than they got for Garrett Cole when they made those trades. Like you said, their front office isn't exactly the smartest. But yeah, they are very good. Nationals, not as much. They've got some lefties, some soft tossing lefties that probably will give the Cardinals fits. You know, Patrick Corbin somehow is still pitching. And I'm shocked that Patrick Corbin is not a Cardinal at this point. He just seems like a guy that we thought years ago would have been a Cardinal with a five-something ERA. And he still has a five-something ERA. But they're not as intimidating when you look at who they have on their roster. But somehow they're still winning too. So really can't take any team for granted at this point. But yeah, the Pirates, they can be a scary team. And Corbin, hey, it's a trade-out line that's coming. And we were just talking about how there weren't a lot of starters out there. So don't rule out Patrick Corbin on their Cardinals just yet. That being said, it's been fascinating to see how bad Corbin has been and how long he's been bad, right? I mean, you would have thought that they probably would have cut their losses by now. But I guess because they're playing Steven Strasburg, maybe they can't. Well, he's also making $25 million this year. Yeah, I know. But if you can bring up somebody making $500,000 and get you actual wins, then maybe that's worth the trade-off, I don't know. Nationals are three and seven over their last 10. So maybe they've hit a bit of a bump or they've hit their bump early and they're going to actually turn it around against Cardinals. We'll find out. But we will talk about it next week. And David and I will back with you then to discuss how everything is going. But until then, for David, I'm Daniel. Good time. Now lowland with a chance to give the Cardinals a lead for the first time tonight. Which he does is it gone? Yes. A missile down the left field line by Roald. This third home run in this LCS. (cheers and applause) [BLANK_AUDIO]