Radio Miraya
2778: SOUTH SUDAN at 13: Taking Stock of the Journey of a Nation
On the day of independence, I would like to wish your happy independence day to all South Sudanese in and around in South Sudan and also around the globe. We are happy that those who are in the diaspora are able to follow us on our streams. Thank you so much for also following us on our social media platforms. My name is Aaron Lazu. And as today marks the 10 years since South Sudan gained her independence from Sudan. But as we celebrate this milestone, many South Sudanese are left wondering if the country has truly achieved the peace, stability and prosperity. It promised to its people now joining me now to discuss the significance of this day. Annelies Abraham Kaul and James Boboya joined me here in the studio. Good morning gentlemen. Thank you so much for always making our time to come and speak to us here on Radio Mirai. Thank you so much for hosting us this morning and very important day. Thank you so much. Thank you very much. That's right. Yes. Dr. Abraham, in your opinion, what are South Sudan's achievements since she became a country, independent country so far? Well, thank you. Let me take this opportunity first of all to greet every South Sudanese across the globe and tell them that congratulations for this independent day. Because this independent day is a contribution of each and every South Sudanese in different aspects. Those who are carrying arms, those who are providing food, those who are giving a device, all of us that contributed into this day. Now, coming back to the questions that you are talking about, the question that you have asked that what are the significance impact or changes that has come from the time of independent? I would like to begin by saying that we had created what they used to be. Maybe there was something that people used to say, especially our brothers that we break away from, that they said you give South Sudanese independence, they will gone fight among themselves. They say that. Yes. Two years down the line, we begin fighting among ourselves. So it creates a notion that South Sudanese cannot money themselves. But you know what? The same thing happened to the people of Sudan at that time, which they have problems now. So that mist has been taken away. Fighting is something human because we said human being is a political animal and they like this agreement, even something that people will not agree on it. So coming back to what the significant things that happened. Now, Irene Lasso, can you, if you were to bring back the picture of Juba, our capital city, from the day of independent today, Juba town is transformed into modern town. And you could see Tamil road, which has been done, some had even begin going into some estates. Like you go now into to Juba, you go to some part of Malekhe, you come to Tom Pinche, you see that some Tamil king road, that is something that could give you hope, because change is not something that can come big. It is something that getting small, like the way all of us grow to the high we are, nobody knows how we reach here. So I could see that in terms of infrastructure development, it might not be attributed to the government, but it has to be attributed to the people of South Sudan who have loved their country and want to live in a better environment. So that is one. Number two, you see when president initiated what we call oil for infrastructure, you have seen one road has already been completed. Juba bore road is a bore that has already come to me, that is something that was not there. Now, the Juba bargazal road is also ongoing. To me, that is also a significant change, something that has come as initiative of the people of South Sudan. And lastly, one thing that I would like to say is that South Sudan is everywhere you go, you have your identity. That is now you have your passport that could make you to travel along the world. People may not know what South Sudan is, but you will be able to tell them this is the country that I come from. And that kind of ride of having a sense of belonging, something that you call your own, is a great milestone. Right, thank you. Thank you. Yes, Edmund. Yeah, thank you so much for hosting me. I'm very happy today. We're talking about 10 years of independence. If you take that from a perspective of a human being, this person should have already been maybe in a teenager. I started to speak and I've been some of the community problems. So I agree with one of our experts here talk about the independence. Obviously, one thing that I can be talking about is that we have a country that has been recognized internationally, a country that has provided citizenship for the people of South Sudan. And that's why people are proud. But a country that has failed to fulfill the requirements of the aspirations of the people of South Sudan. When South Sudan was fighting with the Sudan, there were significant issues, issues to do with the justice, issues to do with the liberties, issues to do with the freedoms, issues to do with the quality of life. I agree, of course, even talk about some of the infrastructure or development that happens, but even the planning process for this infrastructure. Because if we talk about Juba, Juba is not South Sudan, we talk about independence of the Republic of South Sudan, where expected equal development happening throughout South Sudan. We expected the money for this country to be utilized to develop road infrastructures throughout South Sudan. If you look at, for example, the analysis on how much money has been airmarked for the roads, we've lost close to almost maybe $1.5 billion. That is close to about maybe 1,800 kilometers of Tamagrods that has been eaten because of pandemic corruption. So this has affected quality of life in South Sudan, and this has affected the frustration of the people of South Sudan. The good news is that the independence of South Sudan has built resilience within South Sudan's communities, despite the fact that so many economic, social, political and environmental challenges. But I also want to agree with him in terms of the recognition, right? We're part of different mechanisms. We're now part of the East African community. We're part of the E-God. We're part of the African Union. We're part of the, you know, the UN systems. So that alone is good. But what accent are we respected from those institutions? Because if we don't have our governance arrangement systems in this place, something's going to be wrong. The good news also is that at least it's a bit of stability when we talk about the peace. But we have been running a country for 13 years on transition. And this is dangerous in terms of governance arrangement in this country. So we'll talk about some of the issues that requires to be done. But basically, when I was coming this morning, everybody's holding the flag. So people love the country, but people don't love the government. We need to see a country that is beloved like today. And we also need to see a government that is loved like the way we love the country. Thank you so much, Edmund. And Dr. Abraham, from what we hear Edmond speaking about, I mean, this is visible. Even a child will understand that we are lagging behind. There is so much stagnation around. What are those factors that are keeping us at base, stagnant? You know, I do agree with the fact that that number of things that are not going on well. What I talk about are things that we're going on well. There are a number of things that are not going on well in this country. One of the very big problems we have in this country is the aspect of ownership. So Sudanese were here, because when I talk, I will talk mostly with the South Sudanese and the government at the same time. Because ownership does not necessarily mean a minister, does not mean a president, does not mean any. It is every source that should be able to know that this country belongs to us and we have to make it be a better place for all of us to stay. But you know, because of lack of ownership, that is why now people in the government, when you are put to the government position, you are just only there to steal money and take the money outside. So there is not that love of a country that you need to do something and invest here. And this goes also with lack of accountability. You know, the government, especially the president, because of his heart of saying you want to forgive people, then everybody do the way they wish. They take him for granted, because say tomorrow will forgive me tomorrow. For how long are we going to forgive people who are messing up the country? And this is where we need to begin it to take things right. And that accountability cannot be given to the president alone. It has been to be given to the citizen. What are citizens saying about the ministers, about the MPs, about the people in the government institutions that are not up to their task? Can we really begin to create them? Can we really begin to have wisdom blow off for these people who have become headed to this country? And I think this is the message that is independent. Want to be independent? We also need to make sure that this country people have lost life. For us of the country, people have lost life. People have suffered. Despite the fact that we are happy today, people use not to be very happy. Now, how do we make people to take us hostage? That is something that we need to be talking about. Thank you, Edmond. We'd like to jump in. You see, thank you so much. The public is very angry with the behavior of the government. For example, they announced that they are going to do a first lifting of Juba city and they are 25 million dollars to Tamuk, 35 kilometers a road. They never did anything on that, and that money disappears. I was very surprised to see the last three, four days ARSC working with the Bank of South Sudan and Tamuk erodes just like one kilometer road, Tamuk within like one half day. So if they have that ability and they love this country, right, they should have done the same to every part of South Sudan, right? So there is a feeling in South Sudan that people love the president and they do the work for the president instead of doing the work for the people of South Sudan. So that loyalty goes to the president? This is working with the president. Instead of working for the people with Tamuk roads because we want the people of South Sudan to enjoy the roads. Because people die, we have matters. People die because they liberated this country. People sacrificed and they went for the referendum because they voted for the independence of this country. So those who voted, those who have died, they are equally must be treated equally. And therefore, if there is access to services, it shouldn't be because the president is there, right? So this feeling that we need to press the president and every single time we press the president, look what happened last time. The president wants to go to Lurie and there was an issue with the one where there was a pot halls. And because the president was going there, the governor just pretended. When the city mayor doesn't want to fix the road. Is this the reason why we have our independence? We need to begin working towards the interests of the people of South Sudan. And it should not only be in Cuba, it should be in all the Tatin, I mean the 10 states, and I think it should not be in the city. Thank you. Yes, Dr. Abraham. Politically, what must be done to ensure that these biggest challenges are addressed. And the people can start building a democratic future. Thank you very much. You know, Arun, a country is like a driver. When you are driving your own car, you can decide either to knock it anywhere or to carry your own break for it to be able to work well. This is how a leadership of a country looks like. So for this country to be able to move forward, it needs the president himself. And the presidency, which means the vice president, the president, they need to take lead to be the drivers of this country. They need to make sure that some people should be given an example to be punished on daylight. So that now it acts as a trigger and a terror and deterrent to the people who have continued to mistreat the people of South Sudan. So politically, we need a political will of a president to be able to panic those people who are not willing to deliver the service to the people. That is from the part of the leadership. Now, we also need the people of South Sudan also to be keeping leaders accountable. And this can be done through civil society. Civil society should be always the boys or the people. Can you imagine, Arun, where in this world where you can make soldiers going for eight months without salary? Where in this world? And these are people holding guns. Do they really think that these people who are holding guns will always be staying hungry when they are driving the AIDS, when they bring all those good things? When these people are not eating anything with their children, this is something that is not, but you know what, there's one problem here. Me, as I'm talking to you, I joined the Liberation Movement at the H.O. Trail almost 30 years ago. And when I joined that one, we were inducted, we were indoctrinated, that we have a country that we should fight for. And you sacrifice, you don't need to benefit anything for you to get the country. Now, I am still wondering, even today, because that time we're all equal. If you are Dr. Gran, Salpaki, everybody, la nasa, kulbalele, la nasa, kulbalele, la nasa, kulgai, nasa, kulgai, that was at that time. But at this specific time, now, why are we different? And some, we are still thinking that, we are still thinking that we should be on here. Where? When other people are better than others. And this is where I'm saying, the President should take addition of taking lead of trying to give an example of how this country should be managed. And for us to do that, we have to stop about issues of transition. As he said, transition has become a disease. Even if we should have, for me, had been promoted, said, better bogus election, rather than this transition, that is not taking us anywhere. Right. Right. Edmond is public shaming the answer. Yeah. I mean, we have, we have significantly seen social media getting people onto their toes. And we've seen some adjustments in government programs because of accountability. But it's not enough. I mean, as I said, it requires the South Sudanese themselves to reflect on what they need. And how can they rally behind the needs of tribalism, right? Yeah. Not like, oh, I brought this tribe. I know. But we should have an equal understanding about our needs, our ABCD. We need to rally behind the needs. And one thing that I want to talk about as one of the diseases in South Sudan, I did research work with one of the East African institutions. We were trying to study how the state capture works and also how dynasty is formed. There are already some characteristics of dynasty and state capture going on in this country. And I think that is the worst thing that will make this country go bad. One, this high level in terms of the rent seconds, you know, traditional leaders could come, impress the president, you are the best. Even if you're not doing a good job, right? They will impress the minister, they'll impress the governor. So, and then they're giving money, they're giving V8s and all of these things. And then they don't care about their own people. We also have broadcasts, right? How can you have a government that is run by rule of law have broadcasts? People who have, for example, ARSC is one of the broadcasts. The Ministry of Roads doesn't have the money, but the president will say, they have the money, right? Why would the national money be kept by an individual? And why would you borrow money from a curaging? Why would you borrow money from a... Yes, from the question. So, if you begin seeing government being run by proxies, then that is a warning for the people in society. So, I think this independence requires us to be able to reflect on how do we move forward. And the same time government tells us there's no money. We have organized events with our money. I mean, it's just said, you know, at all, in the army, you eat bollilla, you eat the grass and things like that. Yeah. You can even organize independence day with only water. And this is what people are advocating for. Yes. For 30 years. We don't need anything. And the member should come with their own water. Yes. We don't have to be able to come with their own water. Yes. It's an independence celebration. It's an independence celebration. Right. For 30 years. But for how long now? I think the issue is... The government is ashamed. The government has offered little. The government has no program for the future. The government is stuck. The government has involved in so many bad things. So, they don't want to organize events that will ashamed them. And when I talk about the government, I talk about all the people, whether political parties or things like that. They are part of that, including civil society. Right. Including the citizens. Right. Exactly. If it is a failure, everybody does fail. Everybody does fail. So, what do you want to do? We want to share them to face each other. That's correct. Right. And there's no leadership to say, okay, please. We're made something terrible. Right. Today is a day to reconcile and let us move forward as people. Yes. Anyone. Just call the court. We're having our needs. Let me ask. Just call the court. I'll be back with you. Stay on the line. We're going to talk about South Sudan at 13. The journey politically and economically. You're listening to the Miraya breakfast show. My name is Ivan Nasu. Do stay tuned. And of course, we continue with the conversations right here on Radio Miraya on this day. I am glad to be joined in the studio by Dr. Abraham Cole. And also we have for Boya Edmond. We are speaking about South Sudan at 13. Yes. Before we went for the news headlines. Yes. You wanted to add. Yes. Continue, please. Thank you very much. I realize for welcoming us back to the second session. What I want to add on what you were saying is that there is this notion of people saying that they want to be blaming others, okay? And none of us want to take the responsibility. Blame games. Now, you know one thing which I don't always like, which is not even good with economy, is an aspect that we believe that I coons in the market and good businessmen when in reality they're not doing business. Just getting contract from the government is not a business, okay? Because you are only getting ready to make money. Which is not, you are not supposed to add, there's no value at all. Also through connections. Through connections. And things are also inflated. It's something that is supposed to cause it a thousand dollars. Cause maybe a hundred thousand dollars. So this is where, and this is where now some of these people, because they don't have money, the government doesn't have money. People come back and say it. We are borrowing from the, borrowing one. They have our money. And in fact, those people should become accountable for taking public funds, for doing nothing. That should be the reality. Right, right, right. But how do we go about that? Bring accountability. We need to aspect. It will come in. Because it's from a civil society. We will be able to know what is happening. But technically, there are two aspects to that. A civil society should be, should be a, with, with, with, with blower. With blower. With blower. Okay. That, that whistle blower. Then number two, the government, through the president, he has said, is to take action. To listen to the voice of the people. And why is that thing supposed to be done? Because if these people will blow the whistle, become the victim, then the government doesn't want a good thing. Okay. So these people come whistle blower, need to be protected by the government and the government need to take action so that the people of South Sudan will be happy. Right. Yes. You know, one thing that really made me feel bad as a human being and somebody who's matured in this country is that the government complains there's no money. But they allow leakage, right? They allow a pandemic corruption to happen. Money that is supposed to go to because other accounts will continue to disappear in the watch of the president and the watch of all the leaders in this country. And every single time they say we have, we can pay civil servants. We can pay the army. We can do independence, celebrate today. We can work on these roads. We can work on health services. Right. So I really want to call the every South Sudanese, including herself, as our president, to really begin thinking about if they love this country, they must allow the measures to take place in terms of making sure that the money that is belonging to services is really there, that collections is happening, that this money is going to go to this account, that every single expenditure happened within the framework of the law. Yeah. We have, I mean, the public finance and a contributing act is very clear. We have a public procurement disposal. We need to begin looking on how do we run government and other country that is democratic. Right. We have that capability, but we're not interested because we like pleasing others. Right now, there's a lot of, as I said, we're paying loyalties to those who help us. The guys who help to secure self-architect during the conflict of 2013, 2016, this will be paid back. The guys who secure a expenditure, 2013, 2014 conflict needs to be paid back. The sour guys are doing the same. So they're stealing public funds to please their basis. And this has have a negative impact in the way we're supposed to economically provide services to the people of South Sudan. So what I'm saying here is it's time in the name of God for people to really begin to style up and begin to provide real leadership, political will, and governance processes that can steer this country to become like any other country. I'm very, very shocked when we see a little more coming out and say, "Oh, we have $10 million exchange at SSSP." And this money was then eaten in between. Right? At the same time, the guy may say, "No, we have no money." So when money is stolen, you know this money. When people want money, there's no money. Right? So I was very shocked to see, I mean, like you saw yesterday, we found that the building has been at the bank of South Sudan. Over $121 to $30 million. We have the President's day one, that the building right now, it's about $150 million. Right? And in between, it just is, and if you do statistically speaking, the President's complex, the day one, and other buildings in town, including one for National Security, it gives you closer to about a billion dollars of infrastructure in Cuba. Wow. And 50% of that money has only been eaten. Wow. And the structure is just staying. So why would, under the watch of the President, allow this to happen? Why would the citizens just keep watching as if somebody is going to come? They must begin taking ownership. They have to work with the leaders. If not coming on the street, they have to infineral in their house, because these leaders are with our own. There were relatives. There were in-laws. There were sons. There are our uncles. We should be able to have the conversations in those structures to tell them, "Please, enough is enough." Because we're tired. And if you look at, for example, most children in town, people would gray, I mean, like brown hair, is because of lack of food. People kill for bread. This is a country that producers can produce a lot of food, nutritional food. Why would, under the watch of the government, allow this kind of characteristics of nutrition issues, lack of food hunger, right? So I really honestly want to ask the government and the people of South Sudan that let us have a conversation that this 13th year of independence should bring about real issues that help us to succeed and become better so that we improve quality of life, we address poverty, we address hunger, and also make sure that we have access to better health facilities, education, and spirituality in all. Thank you so much. I need to add something very fast. This is very interesting. And you know, one of the things, one of the key area that we have all taken wrong is that we have taken conflict as a business. Okay? How have we taken conflict as a business? We have taken conflict as a business because by you rebelling, you have to be rewarded. And I have always given, because I have a lot of public talks, I always point at individuals, and I say from zero to this very high position, what miracle did you do? And you do a statistic, you go around the country, you ask the children to say, "Do you want to be a leader?" and you say, "Yes, how do you want to be a leader?" You know, when I grow up, I just go to the bush of year, year, I just go to the bush of Meridian, I just go to the bush of Juba, I come back, I become a minister. What kind of attitude are we to take our children? Wow. This is something that we need to do. You know what? That is why now I also predicted some time back. I said the government is dropping food. The signatures, the agreement are dropping feed on the implementation because they want the time to expire and they use the whole out group as an avenue for extension. This is what I said almost like three years ago. And this is what I'm trying to see now. Now, do everybody need to go to Nairobi? You go to Campale, you go to Addis and after a few, you are appointed, you come back as a minister, you come back as a general. What are we teaching ourselves? Right. Well, thank you so much, gentlemen, for making our time to speak to us and to speak about malnutrition and hunger. All these things cannot be spoken about without insecurity, it cannot be spoken about without the economy. Now, of late we have been facing misfortunes as a country when it comes to our economy. What must be the priorities of a government, Dr. Abraham? Well, you know, a consuming country will never progress no matter how you try. Even if I also said one time, even if you make a miracle of bringing kisses here, to come and improve our economy when everybody will continue consuming will never go anywhere. The economy should be able to be a producing economy. So it's a cycle. So it's a cycle, you have to produce something, you know. We import everything and I always say it, if even if we have to make ourselves to be something that will be needed, Abraham will be imported from Campale for me to come and survive here in South Sudan. So we need to embark on agriculture and I've seen the current budget being proposed. Agriculture has been given a big portion, but I am not also sure how that big portion will not have been stolen. So there is no assurance that even if money is allocated for doing the right thing, it will still disappear. So this is now, if that money is allocated, we have to see the outcome of that. And all of us should have the eyes there, the president, the citizen, and everybody. Yes, my boy. So I want to say this, and I'm going to advocate, I've done a lot of the preliminary analysis of the budget. They have increased the budget by 14% from 2.1 trillion to 2.4 trillion. So about 900 or something billion that has been added. So I am telling the government, let us use part of that money to tarmac roads to agricultural producing countries. I really want to see, I'm asking South Sudan, my other day as our president, let him give directives for tarmac in Yay, Juba Yay, Cairo, Juba Yambi Road. This road needs to be tarmac this year. So within six months, because now they've tell us that they can tarmac one and half kilometer of road within one day. The yesterday, the day before yesterday, they have done that. So within six months, they must tarmac Juba Yay, Cairo, so that the people of Yay and Morobu produce a lot of food can bring the food to Juba. Also to Yambi, it needs to be tarmac. Let me tell you, I'm not opposing, but they have tarmac the road to Bohr. But if you look at the economic incentives from there, it's not significant. The only thing that is good is that fish. Fish, and I can't go for that. It is a big use. It's also a big misuse for us. So let them tarmac the roads. Once they have tarmac the road, then they begin to provide money to farmers. Okay. And not everywhere, but specific areas as a pilot, then in the next year, they start to push up. So those two, but of course, they also need to talk about security arrangements and things like that. That is important. Okay. But you know, there are things that you don't, you know, security is a complicated thing. You create an environment that will make people happy, that will eat them, and each of those security will solve them. Yeah, of course. So what we need, what I need to add on top of that, as a way of improving farming, we need to have agricultural cooperatives. And we need to have a national institution. You know, we used to have an institution called so-so-that microfinance development facility. We used to be funded through World Bank, which promote financial inclusion. Okay. But when the world began 2016, it was stopped. Now, how do you stop something that is for the livelihood of the people? Things to do with empowerment, cooperative, empowerment of suckers, and then the microfinance institution. These are the institutions that are very close to the vulnerable people that should be able to give them some seed capital. To be able to invest either in farming or in business. And that's the thing that we need to do. That's right. And it's just a quarter to the top of the hour. I would like to give an opportunity to one or two callers. If you have any, any contribution or banning question that would like to ask our experts here in the Studio 092-96-86297, 091-206950, or 091-206079, on this event of South Sudan at 13, we are speaking about our political situation. And also economic situation. What are some of the strides? And what are the areas that need improvement? Yes. Great. Good morning. Hello, Mirai. Hello, Mirai. Yes. Good morning. How are you doing? Hi, David. Good to see you, John. Yes, John. Straight to the point. What's your question? You know, I'm actually, you know, happy looking into what we are doing. Hmm. What I want to ask from our people, society organizations, they are not loud enough. They have said all that they have said. But why is it that, you know, they are not that loud enough? Because some of them, also, please say that some of them are also being viewed by the same political leaders. So when will they also join the site of the citizens at least to raise their consent and therefore? Okay. Thank you so much. Here's my boy. Yeah. We've been very, very loud enough. And that's the reason why some of them who are allowed like the PCCA, they were sent out to the country. So the government is not willing to accept accountability. They are not interested in service delivery. They're not interested to provide, you know, good things to this country. So when you begin to hold them accountable, you become an enemy. I promise you, most of the independent civil society in this country has been branded as an I/O or government or something like that. But we committed that we promote our values. We want to make sure we're in partnership with the government to allow for things to happen. And we will continue to dialogue with government. The good news is that even today, I mean, I'm speaking on behalf of the people of South Sudan. I'm representing over thousands of civil society. And we're not afraid to talk about those issues. And that's why some of the experts, like Dr. Isia, to sort of raise the voices of the South Sudan and so who could not speak to their own leaders. So what we're doing is we're speaking to our own government leaders to listen to the cry of the people. And if they don't want to adjust, time will come where they will adjust. That's right. Now let's take one more caller. Yes, very, very good morning. Yes, I know. Hello. Good morning. Good morning. How are you? I'm fine. Thank you. Who am I speaking to? You are talking with Simon. Yes, Simon. Tell me. What is your question? My question is people are good calico. We are losing you. I think your network is bad. If you're inside the house, can you kindly move out? Yeah, I'm outside now. Okay, okay. Yeah, they are talking about other people in the country. But in most people, but we as farmers, we are having a lot of problems when it's coming to security. Sometimes you go to the farm and you'll be getting arrested, maybe beaten and a lot of things that isn't, don't know where this all comes from. Now, if all those things are happening in the country, how can the farmers produce more food in other parts of the country? And how can this people help us to address the issue of security? Okay. Even our security forces are angry because there's nothing in our hands. You are going to pay them a lot of things. No, that becomes really clear to us as farmers in the business. All right. Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. Yes, Dr. Herraham, you can take that up. Well, this is asking and raising very crucial questions that the security of the citizens, especially the rural area, is paramount. But one thing that we need to do is that the insecurity we have in this country is an insecurity that we create by ourselves. Okay? Why am I saying this? You know, somebody removed from Juba and he has to go back to their village, tell the people they remove us. When they were eating alone in Juba, where the citizens at the periphery, where they're part of that, they were not. And then we blindly follow them and try to fight for them to come back to the power. And that's why I said this one, like, I think two years ago, you might have seen, I said, through the area that anybody who rebelled in this country should take his wife, and they shouldn't do the pro line and come and ask the children of other people. Because now the children are in London, the children are in Kampala, and here's a liberty to say that I had been removed, and now you have to support me, you have to fight for us, fight for our right. Now we have to wake up. Let these people who have been suffering, like the one we have just talked in here, if there's any problem that is bringing problems across the country, including here, is because our youth who are better born in the village, are used as a tool of keeping people in power in Juba. They need to identify their kids there, and all those things will begin subsiding down. Right, definitely, we're running out of time, yes. Yeah, just quickly. Yeah, so I think what I want to say in terms of EA is that we want to ask the government to really have a genuine dialogue with the rebel groups in that area. And number two, they have deployed some unified forces, but of course those forces are not natural. So they can be able to deploy the natural forces who have to secure their place. And then lastly, they must be able to also pay the army, because if you deploy people in that area and they're not being taken care of, they go and loot properties from people, because it also allows us to food. So if you can take care of the food and other services for the soldiers, it may bring a bit of stability in that area. And I think this must be genuine dialogue and genuine considerations of some of those issues to be addressed in the classrooms, including the deployment of police and enhancing, you know, security capabilities in that area. Right, gentlemen, we do appreciate your time. Lastly, what is your independence message to the people of Sowestan, Doctor? My message to the people of Sowestan is that hard time don't last. But or tough time don't last, but tough people last. That's right. Which means the people of Sowestan are suffering, they had suffered during the deliberations, they have voted for referendum, they got their independence, they have to work for this country to become better. God will not come from heaven, nobody will come outside the country to come and make Sowestan a better place to be. It is us, we'll make it a better place. That's right, thank you so much, Doctor Abraham. Yes, bye-bye. Yeah, what I want to say is the message of hope to all the Sowestan is, let them continue to build resilience as they do now, but then let them continue to hold their leaders accountable, and let them own the country, and let them participate in all aspects of development and prospects that are more, taking them to addressing their social justice issues and also addressing poverty in South Sudan. Right, thank you so much. Doctor Abraham and Baboy, I thank you so much for your time.