Radio Miraya
2777: THE ROUNDTABLE: South Sudan, 13 Years of Independence
[ Music ] >> Hello and welcome to the round table. My name is Sanny Martin. We are coming to you live from Cuba this weekend. And today we are going to be looking at certain years after independence where are we as a country. That's what we are going to be discussing as next Tuesday, the 9th of July, South Sudan will be celebrating certain years of independence. The people of South Sudan had high expectations for the country that the modeled through years of suffering. The agenda for many was quite clear. The state and nation building, depending peace building, preventing conflict, improving security, and bringing about a process of rapid economic development. Reducing poverty to secure the gain of independence was on top of the agenda, and many South Sudanists expected their country to strive for a better economic development. It was a blank converse that the South Sudanists were to paint with success through a strong self-resolve of determination indeed. South Sudan will be turning certain years on Tuesday next week. So, certain years down the line, where are we as a country? These are some of the questions you are going to be discussing here with my guest or my panelists and our line should be open to you later on where you can call on 091, 2062079 or 091, 2062950, or you can send us your question to our SMS number 091, 2177, 141, or you can visit our Facebook page and drop your comment, as some of you are already doing, and I will be putting them as they come in right here. Let me take this chance to welcome my guest as we still expect some more guests to be arriving in our studio here. In the studio, I already have Honorable Bob McQueen, who is the S.P.L.M. Secretary for External Relations. Welcome to this program, and happy Sartines anniversary to you Honorable. Thank you, San Martin, and happy Independence Day. All right, and we have here, Regina Joseph Kaba, who is the S.P.L.M. I/O, Secretary General, and she will also be speaking on behalf of the many women listening to her this morning or this day. You are most welcome to read him a roundtable program. Thank you, San Martin, and happy Independence Day to all the South Sudanese and to the listener. All right, and we expect in Professor Peter Adok Yaba to be joining us here shortly, as we shall be also looking at his perspective. He has extensively written a lot of books about South Sudan. We'll be finding out more from you also later on here. Has the program continues for the next two hours. Let me begin this by first putting this question. Ladies, first, Sartini has down the line, Honorable Regina. Where are we as an independent country? Thank you so much for this day, the Independence Day. Yeah, where are we in Sartini's? I don't know how we count it down, because I think we should subtract the conflict time out of it. If we want to talk about how far we have gone, Sartini's, including the conflict time from December 2013 to the signing of the agreement. So you can see that long time, most of it, we can say that there were some changes during the signing of the agreement. If we look at ourself, let us start with our JDB, the gross domestic production. You can see that the JDB of South Sudan in 2011 was almost 15 billion. But down here to today, 2024, it is only 6.5 billion. So you can see how far we... The decline is too huge. Yes. Same thing, if we look at the JDB gross rate, how far we are growing in our economy. You will see that in 2011, it was minus 4.6. Now, in 2024, we had 0.0%, meaning no growing in our economy. If you look at how we have switched prosperity to what rate? In 2011, our JDB per capita was 1455 USD. Now we are in 2024. We have reduced to 422 USD only. Okay. So this is with regard to economy, if you see, if we look at other parameters, which our people were thinking, after independent, we will achieve them. Look at our poverty rate. Our poverty rate has grown up to 80%. You can see 20% is living below poverty rate. 80% is below poverty rate, I mean. And the 20% is above. Okay. So you can see from 2011, it was below 60%. But now it is 80%. So you can see we are going worse in the economy. But there are also some positive parts. Okay. The literacy rate in 2011 was 27%. But now in 2024, we are 32% literacy rate. So at least in the education we have. So the education sector is working. Yes. Okay. We shall be finding out more from you later on. Yes, Honorable Bulma, the same question, Satineas down the line. The expectations of the people were huge. Too much. And the population on the 9th of July 2011, at the mazellium here, you could see people were crying. All the people came. People danced from 8th up to the 9th. And by this time, as I speak to you right now, that road from J1 up to the mazellium was packed. Nobody could move. The airport was busy. So satineas down the line. Where are we? What progress has been gained so far or recorded? And what has not been recorded in a positive manner? Thank you, Sanya Martin. Good morning listeners. Happy Independence Day. In fact, the first thing we need to establish is that resilience comes. When you are knocked down and you can still get up, it is true we have been knocked down in the process, but we are always getting up. The first thing is that when independence came, it was actually the best of a nation. Everybody was happy. Those who put against it, those who stabbed us at the back, we all united, we rejoiced, and we took our country. And so stability was there. There was no more death. It was there for forgiveness. And we established the institutions of governance and sovereignty of South Sudan from scratch. So we established governments and institutions of old states in the states and also at national level. And South Sudan appeared for the first time in the map of the world, which is still there now. And we maintain sovereignty. We have our flags at the UN. And we also had our flags at the embassy. South Sudan image was everywhere and we were seen. We have our national anthem. We have membership in the A.U. and E.G.A.D. and is African community. And in most of the world institutes, and we are still maintaining that. And even we are actually progressing. Like we have the sharemanship of the is African community is now in South Sudan. We have actually gone out of South Sudan. Games were winning games in so international arena. And we are playing World Cups. So South Sudan is actually everywhere. We established the National Army, the national sport teams as we have said. And not only that, we have the democratic institutions of governance. We have the parliament, the executive and the judiciary. So that this picture frames that the nation is viable. On the economy in Prostrachia, we were set. Of course, we had the oil industry. We was affected by many ups and downs. As far as the conflict were concerned, the first one was the Higgly. We came out of that to some extent. And we are about to build until we regress. Of course, we had to quarrel. We had this quarrel among ourselves. And still we overcome them. You know, it's a part of the pace of maturity development. We realize that we are going wrong and we come all over again. So we really congratulate the champions of peace, the leaders, that signed the agreement that became revitalized agreement. And I hope that they will continue doing that because we will not always just be down there. We are looking up. If had it not been this conflict in Sudan now, our economy would have come out in a way that we would have improved a lot and we would have gone more than what we are expected to do. And not only that, when we came out of this situation, we had to kill some developments. We can see we have constructed, like Yuba Road. This is a part of progress. Although we were... Which road? The Yuba Road Road. Yes, you know that one now. You can go to the border in a very short time. And we have also opened up the Yuba Road, the Yuba Road. And we have other ones. Actually, Yuba Road, the Yuba Road, the Yuba Road in the default. You know, we have both developmental projects. And they are being signed. And we are also opening up the... Sudan, South Sudan. Let's talk about what is on the ground. Let's not talk about what's coming up. First of all, I want you to respond to both of you here as we wait for Professor to arrive in the West of the year. How have the leaders of this country lived up to the expectation of the South Sudanese when the flag was raised on the 9th of July 2011? Let me begin with the Honorable Bulma Pen. Yes, in fact, it was in principle that we had lived to that standard because... How have they lived? Yes. Let me come in. Yes. We have lived to that standard because if we have established a constitution we are bound to follow what the constitution was telling us. The constitution is actually the prime legal road map to governance in the country. But we actually regressed because we didn't respect the constitution, and so we quarreled and it was a quarreled within the SFLM. It was not actually a quarreled between anybody there. So it was the SFLM quarreling itself because of power struggle. So the power struggle is something else. But leadership of this country is not two people. It is not his excellency, Dr. York. It is not these two people. It is everybody, including yourself, and we here. So it is we, all of us. It is a collective responsibility. We did not address issues as collective as they are. And so we had some shortcomings. But nevertheless, as I said before, it was realized that we were actually going off-road, we came back to the road. And that's why the peace agreements were signed, regardless to whatever certain data appeals that were in the agreement. Okay. Let's find out from our owner, Borjina. Have the leaders of this kind of lift up the expectation of the people when they were hoping for the best. Because no one anticipated that that is the life they will live after independence. Yeah. I think our leaders have a good plan when they fought for their independence. It was a good plan. And we achieved it. And the people of South Sudan have all the great expectation, which was not realized. Actually, the fight among the expellent leaders have brought us down. You can see when they were running for the independence. I think there was differences among our leaders. And they postponed to solve it. And that was one of the big mistake. They postponed to solve it until independent. So when the independent come, they start to try to solve it. To me, it was not power struggle. It was issues of the vision of South Sudan and the vision of Espelem as a party and how to run the party. So the issue was, as my colleague said, was within the Espelem as a party, which brought this conflict. So to me, our leaders from Espelem did not take us right away to the expectations that we were thinking of. But good enough, of course, they realized it. And that is why the peace agreement was signed and it was revitalized. So they have gained the power of how to lead South Sudan and implement the good agenda to take us to stability and peaceful country. Yes. And Honorable Bob Makwena, to what extent has the instability amidst the high level of preexisting poverty in literacy? We are, like the original said, just below 40% literacy rate in this country. Further, diminished limited opportunities and weakened future prospects for young men. In particular, leaving them vulnerable to recruitment into militia and criminal network. These are some of the characteristics we are seeing at the moment in this country. The question somebody will be tempted to ask is, should South Sudan have the sense of optimism about their future, a sentiment among many South Sudanists being tainted by conflict all the time? In fact, one would say that, yes, we are optimistic. Because nobody had even thought that we are going to be a country. And I know the argument we used to have been '70s and early '80s, that it was going to be impossible for South Sudan to separate, given the enormous support with the Arabs and the Islamic countries were giving to Sudan. But we came out of it. Now, this one is a very simple equation, as you said. The first thing is that let us take education level because education is nation. If you improve education, improve a nation because understanding an attitude of people will be changed as a result of education. We talk today, you know, during the independence time, we had less than 200 primary and secondary schools. We talk today, we have 7,737 primary and secondary schools and also the technical schools. All these schools collectively are in this category. And we have also, we used to have, when we inherited from Sudan, we had three universities. We were the universal, the universal and universal of Cuba. As we talk today, we have five public universities, we have four technical universities, and also we have nine. We are facing a lot of challenges. Just two days ago, two days ago, they later asked the University of World Bank of protesting. This is, like I said, these practical issues because sustainability is one of the big challenges facing this government. Do you also know that people are protesting in German and in the UK and in the United States? Because these are actually things we are not only pertaining to South Sudan. There are human problems and they happen everywhere. But they are a part and pace of development. So we understand those needs. And we know that there are shortcomings at present, but they are not permanent. We are going to come out of them. Should South Sudaners have this kind of optimism for their future? Well, before their hands, and they don't want to think the way I'm thinking, then we'll actually not, we'll be pessimistic. But if we are thinking the way I'm positively thinking, then we'll actually be optimistic. Because, as I said before, there had been a time when people never thought that it would be dressing like, "Today, you get everybody in suit and then burn nice dressing in the streets and what?" But 30 years ago, you get us here. You get us wearing only one piece of clothes. And see, now the changes that have come. So that has always been optimistic. In fact, I'm personally optimistic that these things will improve. And so with the attitude, change in education, the things that people are joining militia groups and they are abandoning this, the plural, the plural, the plural, the plural, the plural, the plural, the plural, the plural. That's why I'm saying education is nation. We are going to educate our people to understand that there is only one formula for us to access opportunities in this country. You are a citizen and you have the qualification. You have the skills. If these things are understood the way I'm saying them by everyone, you don't care whether you are born in Mundry. You are born in Capoita, in Romebe, in Acobo, or in Raya. You are a citizen of this country. You have the skills and you have, this is your national currency. Okay, if the government or the leaders of this country knew very well that the only way to get South Sudan into prosperity was through education. Why didn't you process education on day one? It is not prioritized. And you have seen the progression, the progressive way I'm explaining to you now, that the number of universities has increased, the number of primary schools has increased. And not only that, we have scholarships taking over two to three thousand students. You know, this knowledge, cumulatively, will positively impact on the attitude and the developmental issues in this country. So, optimism always is actually the guideline of a nation to develop. So, I know, and I know that, for instance, in some 20 years ago, while we had the CPA, the girls' education was lagging behind that of boys. It was 90 percent boys, or 95 percent boys, and used to be about only 5 to 10 percent girls. Today, as we talk, the percentage of boys going to schools is 53 percent versus 47 percent of girls. So, as we educate ourselves, as we educate our people, as we educate our leaders, let us not assume that our leaders are only educated. For instance, I may have a follow from my ethnic group, not because I am right, but because they are my ethnic group. But once they know that, don't follow me. If I am a thief, why do you follow me? Yes, you see? All right. This initial issue I should actually be persecuted by the nation. Yes, I have a follow-up question to that. I will be putting that later. And let's find out about Regina. There are so many opinions among the elites, and many South Sudanists, right now, has to exactly how to tackle the conflict in South Sudan. What should be the long-term solution to the ongoing conflict in South Sudan? So that at least the aspiration, the visions and the ambitions of the many South Sudanists who had hoped to live in heaven. They could not even come near to heaven, because now it's like people are living in another world where you only see challenges, poverty and all this displacement. Thank you, honey. Actually, the issue of stability in the country is very important, because when there is peace, many things can be realized. All what we are talking about, like the issue of education, is related to stability. Without peace, of course, we cannot achieve all the aspirations that we have. For me, the peace agreement is the solution. This revitalized agreement. If we South Sudanists, we want this country to be peaceful, let us implement the peace agreement. Some people think that this peace agreement has taken long. You can see, within the period of the peace agreement, we succeed to construct the road to the border, which is, I think, the only capital of a state that is connected to Cuba. Even the road to Barajazal has not even reached Roombek as the second capital of one of our states. So you can see the peace is the solution to the conflict. If we implement the peace agreement, that means we will reform all our constitution. Starting with the security sector, we will have a unified police, we will have a unified army, we will empower them, then they will take control. Rule of law will be there. When rule of law is there, then we control what is happening. And with education, it should not be only primary education. We should go for technical education to involve our youth, to make them busy. Create jobs. When there is peace, that is a good environment for investment. We can do investment. Agriculture can boost. And then our youth, we create jobs for them. They will be more very active in doing their businesses, and they will have no way to involve with militia and other things. So this country needs peace, and peace is the only solution for stopping the conflict now. And how do we get that peace? The peace we are talking about, which is on the paper, and it cannot be translated into action. Actually, I know it has taken us long to implement it. If you see the provision of the peace agreement, the first chapter, which is about the governance. Which we have done at least a reasonable percentage. Because people say it is favoring you. The first chapter of the agreement gives you the platform to own cars, live in good hotels. That's why you are asked for it. It's not rushing for it. You know why it was the first chapter? Because it's the basis for the others. If you don't have those institutions in place, you cannot implement the other provisions. That is why we started with it. But I think the pre-transition period started with chapter 2. Okay. The first chapter was the first. Right, we did. Okay. Honorable Bulmok, when the people of South Sudan after independent desert for justice, freedom, democracy, peace, prosperity from the S.P.L.A.M. led government. And these are the things the S.P.L.A.M. champion during the course of freedom for South Sudan. And this has turned out to be a disappointment, as leaders failed to prove that they are capable of living up the high ground. Not only for South Sudan, but the entire continent is not happy with the way South Sudan has managed its affairs after the 9th of July 2011. How does S.P.L.A.M. exonerate itself from this kind of statement? In fact, what I said before, and I want to go to edit that, things can start badly, but they will improve. Or things can start in a good way, but in the middle, certain bad things happen, but still they will overcome those things. It is true today, some people are celebrating because of our downfall, because of our problems. And South Sudan is described as a milking cow of South Africa. South Sudan, because the owner of the cow allowed the people to come in again. So South Sudan is allowed as a milking cow of South Africa, a milking cow of men used, a milking cow of the U.N., because this is what is happening. These are the only people enjoying now, not South Sudan. If you close your door, no one can access your compound unless you open for them. Yes, so I am trying to say I am not blaming myself, because what I am saying is what I am coming to. But because I am blaming myself, I have realized that I am the one doing injustice to myself. And so, education, as I come to, is the executive from all this education that we have to realize that while we are fighting with my sister, with my brother, with my friend, with my fellow countrymen, the country is slipping away. Our people are getting poorer and poorer every day. The development we want is not coming, because the things that we make development, the resources are just going out of the country. Our land is in croche, lab and right, by people who do not deserve it. These are things we have to realize, and it is us sitting down in a ducate ourselves that we can come out of it. And because, for instance, the development we talk about, do you know the biggest equipment for all construction was destroyed in young people? Because people do not know that this was bringing development, this was between a cobalt bore. People never knew that this was bringing development, and regrettably, as we talk here now, even in this education, it is happening only in certain parts of South Sudan. There are parts of South Sudan that are not eligible, and people are not educated. And what goes into their mind every day is how to get cows from neighboring communities. So these things will fade away because of education. So we have to access, and peace is the answer to all this. Let us be peaceful. Let us actually put the interests of this people as number one. And therefore, we need to come back to the table again, and then we say, we have lost. We have lost vision. We have to come to this road. Let us not think of ABCD. Let us not think of me as US. Let these things be secondary. So this education I'm talking about is a political education. And that political education, for us to lead to that, is that we, the current political parties, the membership, we have to go out and talk jointly to these communities. If we are seeing eating together, working together, and talking the same language, those people will not fight themselves. Because the people who make them fight are we who are talking here, yoga. So we have to have join rallies so that we address the issues of this nation. And also, many South Sudanese are not happy because for the last five or four or five years, there has never been any independence, the celebration. At national level where you see events being organized as the S.P.L.M. Secretary for External Relations. Is there any plan for organizing any event on Tuesday, the one you have had? There are, I've seen some youth secular organizing these things. In fact, there will be, of course, an address from the leader of the country to address the nation. And also, there will be a lot of memories about the past things that reflect our struggle that culminated into the independence of this country. So there are preparations, and also the states are also preparing for their celebrations. Okay. And what I have originated, I'm going to state facts here, and I would like all of you to respond to it. The biggest challenge facing South Sudan today is the severe economic downturn since the inflation is very high. South Sudanese are struggling to eat. People are not being paid for over nine, depending on who you speak to. Some people say five months, six months, seven months, up to ten months. And the challenge of forging a national identity from a diverse people and communities who have been affected by the conflict people are not divided along tribal lines. And also, we have a natural disaster in the country. Many people have been displaced by floods, and humanitarian situation is at its worst when we are told, according to the humanitarian agencies and the minister of the humanitarian system, about nine million people in need of food items in South Sudan. The war in Sudan is also taking its huge toll on the country in terms of their attorneys, their refugees, and their economy, because we depend entirely on Sudan for the oil to go to the international market. And many more other challenges the country is going through at the moment. The question is, does all this project any hope for the future of South Sudan? Actually, there is a lot of challenges now facing South Sudan, as you mentioned. The issue of dependency on the oil is really affecting us. And with the conflict in South Sudan, we have reached the point that salaries are not being paid. As you mentioned, people are really suffering, and our income, that is to operate the government, has been low, and we are facing a lot of challenges. So when you talk about celebration, how can you celebrate in this very difficult situation? Celebration, you celebrate when you are happy. You celebrate when you have something to eat. But this celebration, at this time, especially in the 13 years of independence, and the other, for my years, you can see we have gone far from the celebration. Actually, we must always have hope. Hope must be there. If we don't have hope, tomorrow will be better. It will be very, very difficult for us. Now, we in South Sudan, with all the climate change issues, the flood, the crisis, humanitarian, it all takes us back to insecurity in the country, mainly, because how can we diversify our economy when we cannot go for agriculture? We in South Sudan, we should depend on agriculture. How can you go for farming when the country is insecure? I remember even this year, this displacement of people who are herders, they come with their cattle to where there are people going to farm to cultivate and chase them away. So this affects the stability and affects the economy of our country, badly. The same thing with the flood. The flood is all over, especially in the upper nine. Some of our state are now under water. So you can see the challenge. But still, I say we must have hope. We must have hope, because before this country was better than that. Now, like cleaning the river, it has been a big challenge. But the question is, how do you fix the challenges the people of South Sudan, who never wished for all their going through right now after independence? How do you fix this right now? We have the issue of the economy. Our economy is not doing well like you initially stated in your introduction, giving us the figures after 2011 to 2012. We had a very big economic conference or investment conference before the 2013 conflict here in Juba, and there was a bright future. People were hoping investors were rushing to South Sudan, all of a sudden everything went to zero. Now, how do we get out of this scenario where we are in? People are not being paid for 10 months. There are a lot of IDPs within the country. There are a lot of national violence. People are being killed, the villages are being tortured. So many things are happening. People, the villages have been flooded. These are natural disasters. An estimated 9 million people are saying to be in need of humanitarian assistance. So these are the things South Sudan is never wished for. How to fix South Sudan? Is a very important question. Of course, all what do you say, the issue of investment? How can you attract investors to South Sudan when you talk of conflict everywhere? There is no peace. You know people who invest their business people. They care about their money. For them to bring money to South Sudan, South Sudan must be peaceful. They must have a favorable environment that will attract the investors. The conference doesn't attract them. What attracts them is the environment. Is their environment in South Sudan favorable for investment or not? So this will always take me back to if we implement the agreement. Where we do reform in our economy sectors. We have good rules that will attract the investors. We have peaceful country. If we have peace, we have rule of law, we attract investors. But it's not by talking that investors, you come to our country. We hold conference that will bring them. They study this situation. We have no peace in the country. We cannot improve our economy. So for us to have a peaceful country, we should go for implementation of this activity arrangement. We unify our army. We have a national unified forces all over. Then they take over. Now we have two or three sectors or forces in the country. The opposition has that and the SSPDF is also there. We could not unify many militias. And then you go to the community. Many militias use ganking. Even they become more stronger than our army. They can fight with our army. Rule of law is not there. So how can you talk of improvement without doing all these one, two, three. You should have a unified security sector. You should also work on helping your detainees and refugees in the country. And I think our partners are helping us. You have to do all the reform that will bring economic reform into our country. We have to work on reconciliation and healing among our people so that we can build our nation. We have to go to the constitution making to put the legal basis for how we want this country to move. But when you take the leaders of the mandate to fix what they started. The people of nothing, they are only waiting. Let's find out more from Honorable Bournemouth. And how do we fix the mess that has taken place and satineas down the line after independent South Sudanese are not living the life they were expecting. People are struggling. As you speak to you right now, there is a mother, there is a father who doesn't know how his or her child is going to keep today. Thank you, Sani Martin. In fact, as you have said before, of course, oil has always been the main revenue source for South Sudan. Supported by other non-oil revenue such as taxes. But this conflict in Sudan actually has increased a lot of our problems. And so the work with the president is now doing to bring the warring package in Sudan to peace will bear some proof. So we are seeing that as a part of fixing economy. If that is improved. So many, we are still depending on oil. How do we diversify oil? I mean, we are coming there. I'm coming Sani Martin. So naturally, just as you have said, it's true. We expect the plot this year has been set, and it has been announced that plots are coming in fact. And I think there is an emergency kind of strategic input in place by the means of humanitarian effects, which is a part they are doing with some partners in the country here. But on the government part, there is a plan for the agricultural sector. And personally, as I talk here, if I, if it were my suggestion, I would have been closed the oil industry, and then we go for agriculture. Everyone must be a partner in this country. But do you see a member of the SPLM? Why do you see this? No, it's not happening like that. We are not, not everyone is a farmer. It's like if you are a medical doctor, not everybody is a medical doctor. But you can suggest giving a meeting. We are working, they have come now to eat. This is what I'm saying. Initially, that would have been actually we would have passed develop the agricultural industry and use the oil in fact to as an engine to develop it. But conflict, in fact, is the main core of our problems. And the conflict is very bad. Let me just take you to Europe. Now, you know the food price is because of the war in Ukraine. The food price is the fuel energy. All these things are very, very, very high. And that's why you can hear people are queuing up for bread, for sunflower oil, and for other essential communities. This is not the situation in Europe, by the way. So South Sudan is not an island, it's a part of it. But to fix this, the first thing is peace. We said, and this peace needs this, the signatories to the peace agreement to get united, talk one language to the people of South Sudan saying that. If I work here on put up to A or up to a Cobo, up to Bargazal, I am pre with my things. Yeah, and if you need to find some summer, you can sleep without fear. Oh, yes. So that we, that one can come. If it comes, it's the biggest part of our fixing this region. The other thing is that as we talk about elections, let's go for elections. Because we go for elections, one will reduce this big size of executive, big size of the assembly. Big size of governments in the states say that we'll have a lean government that is accountable to the people of South Sudan. The bodies we have now are not accountable to people of South Sudan because they have not renewed their mandate if they were elected, and some actually do not have amended because they were not elected. So we have to go for elections, because elections will give us their accountable. And then when we have accountable government, there will be peace. And investors will be attracted. People who want to invest especially in their graduate industry will come. Because they are sure that their assets will not be affected by any conflict. So if we really adhere to these principles, the people who will be elected are South Sudanese. The people who will not be elected are South Sudanese, but let there be one attitude. That, okay, if San Martin is elected today, he has time for four or five years to be there. If he is committing mistakes, I will come next time. I will take that attitude. So elections actually is a one major factor for fixing economy peace in this country. That's what I see as a way for it. Okay. And one of the big issues of concern at the moment in South Sudan, many people have talked about it. I have read this somewhere that many South Sudanese are mixing politics with tribalism. If today I am put as a minister of something, for example, any ministry, I am given a natural to lead, and I fail as a San Martin. They attribute my failure to my tribe. How do we recognize that kind of mindset? That one also is possible to be brought on by education. By education is not actually going to school and then you ride on the board. No, it is actually when we talk to the public, we talk to our communities, we talk to them cross-wise. For instance, if I come from to read, I go to Western Victoria and talk because they will see that the one talking is not a man from to read, but a citizen. I mean, citizen, I belong to every part of this country. That will be the attitude. If Honorable Regina goes to Roombaik or to Maracal, she's welcome as a daughter of the land. And then she's free to tell us what is bad and what is good. And we'll not say that this can come through education. And people who can educate our leaders, they'll use people, the media personnel. They're the teachers. It is when we actually take this collective responsibility and educate our people that we can come out of this mess. It is a mental kind of imprisonment. Our minds are imprisoned within the prime factor. For instance, if you see now, if we have the two main players, you get the comrade, Salfa Kir, or Dittor Rha. People will say to Salfa Kir, if they think that this is a denga leader, the one thing is the natural leader. So how does it affect the political setup of this country? Then you get that where you're sticking to Ramachar because he's a nerd. So this one doesn't make sense because this education that can actually absorb us from this thinking. We might think of Sani Martin as a citizen of the land, as our son. And then we tackle you through your personal, not where we don't want to know whether you come from Dittor, from where, or from Barrie. No, that's not our way. Who are you? Who are you? What do you do when Sani Martin, a citizen of this country? That's how we tackle you. Okay. Now, let's find out, in the nation building, what has been the main challenge of bringing the diverse community together? Why are the leaders getting it wrong? Nation building. Of course, this is very important when you bring all the people together. Yes, the nation or our country is sick of this tribalism. Tribes are not bad. But the way we use it in our politics is the one that is affecting us. Our people use political, I mean, tribes in politics. Like, when people are even going for election, they want their leader to come from their tribe. It is not only South Sudan, even in Africa, all of us. Our neighbor here, Kenya, they do the same. How to avoid it, it will depend not only on education, on many other things, which should be based on the type of conditions that South Sudanese will participate in, so that they see how they want this country to move on. Of course, Articuno is the one mandated to implement everything and take us. It is not all of us who are involved in it. For us to make changes, we must have the basis for that. That basis should appear even in our budget. Now, if we say education is the priority, you will see our budget doesn't reflect it. If we say agriculture is the one we should target, you can see there is no budget given to agriculture. So, what we say doesn't show as a policy, it doesn't show in our plan or in our budget. Just like the issue of election, nobody is against election. All the Souths want to go for election. But the legal basis must be there. The country must be ready for election. Not parties are ready. Who should put the country ready for election? It's the mandate of the article. And why are they not putting the country ready for election? It's the issue we mentioned in the beginning. The issue of financing the agreement and implementing it. The finance is the big issue. Like people say this government is very big, is the one consuming. A lot of investment. But this government is the cheapest government. No, but hold on. You see the ministers, the vice president, they have a lot of cars. Today you see with white V8, tomorrow the black V8 and you tell us there is no money. And when the government is not being paid. So why are they going to get the money to buy this car from? Most of it is on debt. If you see our national debt is increasing every year. Because people get those cars. So does it mean that these are the things that are fun to get on purpose? Yes, we shall be finding out more from our guests here later on. Our lines will be open to you shortly. Where you can call and ask my two guests. We have been expecting Professor Peter Broke here to join us here. To now he has not reached us to us. And you hope he will be joining us to explain more about his inside view about where are we. Satineas down the line after independence has on the 9th of July which is next week on Tuesday. South Sudan will be celebrating Satineas of independence. And during the 9th of July 2011 there was a high expectation for my South Sudanese that they were going to enjoy the dividend of a long hard struggle for the last 21 years. That ushered finally with an independent country on the 9th of July 2011. But Satineas down the line the country has faced enormous challenges. Many people are living in IDP come or internal displaced camps. Many South Sudanese are living in the refugees come in the nearby countries. And these are some of the challenges the country is going. How do we fix it? We have our guest here in the country. In the studio you can call us and ask your question to them. And they will be in person to answer all of them honorable Bob McQueen. Is the S.P.L.M. Secretary for External Relations. And also Reginald Joseph Kaba is the S.P.L.M. I/O Secretary General. And they will be in person as we wait for Professor Peter Adrokhiaba to join us right here during our discussion. My name is Sani Martin. [MUSIC PLAYING] The Rums table. [MUSIC PLAYING] The Rums table. Hello and welcome to the second of the Rums table. My name is Sani Martin and we are glad to inform you that we are already joined by Professor Peter Adrokhiaba who is going to also give us his insight on the S.A.T.N.E.S. analyzing the S.A.T.N.E.S of Independence with just few days today. That day which is on Tuesday 2024, July 9 will mark S.A.T.N.E.S. after Independence. So we will be finding out from him and we also have Bob McQueen who is the S.P.L.M. Secretary for External Relations. He is here with me in the studio. Reginald Joseph Kaba, the S.P.L.M. I/O Secretary General is also here with me in the studio. Our lines will be open to you shortly because we want to give you the opportunity to speak to your leaders today. And find out from them what are their responses to your questions you have. 0-9-1-2-0-6-20-7-9 or 0-9-1-2-0-6-20-9-50. Those are all our lines. Or you can drop your comment to our S.M.S. number 0-9-1-2-1-7-7-1-4-1-0. You can visit our Facebook page and put your comment right here. On Professor Dokja, most welcome to the discussion once again. Thanks, Sami. For this opportunity, and first I would want to apologize really. There was a kind of a mix-up in my time. Okay. And that's why I came a bit late. Okay. It was going to be better later. I want to make use of this opportunity really to greet all the listeners and to congratulate the people of South Sudan on the occasion of the 13th anniversary of the independence, which will come the next few days. And we hope that it will be a peaceful celebration and that everybody will be happy that the country is free and independent and we are subrent. Thank you. Okay. Professor, I just want to find out from you how Lisa summarized the last satinis of South Sudan has an independent country. Well, 13 years, we would say the two first years, 2011 to 2013, were kind of peaceful years. Although we had a war in between, in 2012, we had a war, the border war was in Sudan. But from the 13th or the 15th of December, 2013, the country has been in jail conflicts. Conflict coming as a result of a power struggle was in the S.P.L.M. as a ruling party. And so the 13 years really, people have not really benefited in terms of the independence and the kind of social and economic development that should have occurred in order to transform their lives. We have the 13 years really, 11 years really bad years, you know, when we are still in this kind of a terrible situation. We are in, which has resulted a lot of humanitarian and disaster. You know, many of our people are displaced. Many of them are, you know, also plus the natural disasters of droughts and flaps. But really, the, if you look at the political causes of the thing is that the power struggle itself, which is that, erupted in 2013, is something that has been in the S.P.L.M. If you look at the history of the S.P.L.M. S.P.L.M. S.P.L.M. it was its formation, actually, since '83, you see. And the fundamental contradictions in this have not been resolved. Everything has been, every time we are postponing them, we are postponing them, appending a new page and so on until they are accumulated and became very violent. And exploited in 2013. Yes, essentially. Okay. Now, the question is, have the leaders of S.P.L.M. including yourself, though you announced the S.P.L.M. that you had left the party. Have they lived after the expectation of the expectation of the people being... No, no, I don't think so, because what you factor in the expectation of people in a political program, which we implement. So, since '20, or I would say since 2005, 2005, the government of the sub-national entity, the government of the era, we never had any kind of a political program to implement, which is a bit surprising, because what were the war for? If you look at the war, it was to address the issues of poverty, the issues of ignorance, the issues of cultural backwardness about people. Which means that we needed, as soon as the war ended, the S.P.L.M. should have now implemented its political program for addressing these issues. So, failure to do this is what has now resulted. In 2012, the General Secretary of the National Secretary of the S.P.L.M. went and met facts finding, grassroots facts finding, and came out with the conclusion that the S.P.L.M. leaders have deviated from the S.P.L.M. vision and concept. You see, now instead of sitting together and saying, OK, analyzing why they have failed, now they started to blame each other. It is you who has failed, who is this way who has failed, and they want to place blame on others. Instead of all of them taking responsibility, and this is where the crisis started. If you have just joined us right now, our lines are open. You can call us on 091206079 and put your questions to us. You can also send us your question to our S.P.S. numbers 0912177141. Those are all our lines you can get in touch with us here and ask your question. Please, when you call, go straight to your question so that we have ample time for our people to call and talk to us about whether their expectations have been met. Satineas, after South Sudan gained its independence because just on Tuesday, South Sudan will be celebrating Satineas of independence. Hello, Demera? Yeah, you are connecting with Demera, you are collecting a column from all east. OK, I have got a hit from our will east. Demera, you are collecting the column from all east. OK. All right, so first of all, I would like to address all the health in the city, and I do welcome them in the city to send them up. Yeah, so as well as we know, we know that we have a lot of definitions of the conditions that have been done. One of the things that we are still not in place now, is that we are going to have to be in the city of the city. And all the definitions are still not in place. So how can we have a fair and capable relationship for one? All the conditions are still not in place by the scientists and the political parties that are still not in place. Because we also now, as well as we know, government police are going for nine months. So how can we have a business now, while the government is still angry? OK, thank you so much for your question. Hello, Demera. Okay, David, go ahead. I have some questions in the studio. Number one, the tomorrow again of Iowa. The reason what we do when a certain group rebels against the government, they need the system to be changed. I know people are suffering. They don't have food. They have insecurity. And you are keeping silent. What was the reason exactly rebels against the government? If you are accommodated, you are given position, resources and everything, you have your BH, you relax. What was the reason why did you rebel the government? We need this one from Iowa. We don't even need, we don't even see you making a stop, talking about peace, talking about the election, talking about the economy. You are keeping silent. Can you tell us exactly what is the reason? Okay. Number two, the ruling party. The ruling party took the gun against the regime or by fear, our regime of Sudan to liberate people from suffering. By now, the people who have died now and suffered during the time of independent become more than the people who have died in the time of Sudan. What is the reason? And we were very happy that LCLM have liberated South Sudanese from colonization and was the first-class citizen to enjoy our resources. By now, you are a competing politician to enjoy a resource alone without the citizen. What is the reason? Lastly, we are seeing that the ruling party is taking care of the rebels seriously more than the citizens. Does it mean that you are a fucking gun than the citizens who we are ruling? If they are finishing, who am I going to rule in the country? Thank you so much, David Magog from Well Hello? Yes. Thank you so much. President for most acknowledge the present of our leaders in this video. I have a couple of questions to them. Yes, just go straight to the questions. Thank you so much. My question is, in the case of South Sudan, who will be blamed? Then we got independent in 2011 and here now. We are just establishing fighting South Sudan. And when we liberated the country, we liberated it for everybody to have freedom so that we should have the same equality of good lives and having access of education and having access of good living in our countries. Now we have seen the life is being categorized into classes in South Sudan. There are other people who are suffering to the most, even before the independent people were not suffering like this. How should our leaders should enjoy the difference of the food of this country while the citizens are suffering? Okay. You can see now people are established and people will be there of hunger. And there are other people who don't even talk about to supply the economy and with the citizens, we don't have a mechanism for us to do all other strategies that are supposed to be done by the higher government or the national government. Why are the citizens on the seat eating the money and they are not seeing what is affecting the citizens in the country? Thank you so much. Isaac from high cinema here in Cuba. Hello? John. Go ahead. Yeah. I would like to have this comment on the responses made by vulnerable people in my country and then the other members. Yeah. Truly, you know, we have to admit that certain things do not have changed. And had it not been the 2013 and 2016 conflict in the South Sudan, of course, you know, would have been somewhere in the region. This is a religion, you know, to what bowl was saying that is optimistic. And that is true. But when it comes to the question you asked that you posted on Facebook, that what was the hope for South Sudanese, before independent. You know, they are doing, but I would cite only two. One, it was the permittees of the deliberations that were made, you know, toward the program, human rights, equality, are not being seen as second-class citizens in our own country. Two, that South Sudanese particularly the young people, so that independent and the new country was for them. You know, for that, they relied their education, given, you know, the current population of young people in this country. You know, this way are the hopes, and there are so many other that I cannot mention, other people will mention. And I would like to add to this enough, you know, two words of the ruling party, presented by Bol Makwain. Bol am asking you, not as an individual, but am asking you as a member of the ruling party. And the one question that I would like to ask is, how do you feel as an individual, who have children at home, who are also relative that are suffering? And as any member of the party, the ruling party, how do you feel about the suffering of the people you permit to build a country or their dream after the independence? Two, when will you as a party, the ruling party, if I say, begin to challenge yourself, where did you actually go wrong? Where did we meet the promises we made to the people of this country? You remember, during the financial delay price in Kenya, the Kenyan president allowed himself, you know, to be asked by the generalist, that carried a million questions from the people that were affected by the financial bill, should it be passed? So, and I had been saying that he's willing to listen to the Gen Z, right? Okay. You're willing to listen, when will the actual amendment of the people that they permit to build a country for them? Thank you. Thank you so much, John, for that comment and the two questions right from there. We also have some questions coming in here. This is coming in from James Roy, my joke from Ben Tue, in the United States. Our leaders does not care about the involvement of our country, that is how they are thinking and have taken the people of South Sudan for granted. They even talk very rude and they threaten us, they feel like if we don't deserve the right, but we are the subjects, so they should change the narratives of how business is being done. Another one here, is saying that after simultaneous, our country's education system added by 5% into what they call the literacy rate. Another SMS here is saying this is from our urban Francis in A, we must embrace peace as individuals, family and the communities and the larger country. If you don't have peace in me, if I don't have peace in me as an individual, then how can I expect peace in the country? So, he's urging South Sudanese to embrace the culture of peace and let us join our hands together and build this country. One here is Thiyeong Niall, a pull joke from Juba here. Since 2011, there were about 100 kilometers of paved roads only within Juba and no single state capital was connected to Juba now. We have more than 500 kilometers of paved roads connecting Juba to at least three major tons of bore, numerally and terraceca. We had one bridge, but now we have more than 10 bridges. That's coming in from Thiyeong in Juba here. And we are still at 72 because the government does not pay the salaries of civil servants. And the government, civil servants can't take their children to school. That is very absurd. And he is asking Honorable Bolmakon, you are advocating for education and yet the government does not pay salary. How do you want us to embark on this education yet we can't afford to pay school fees? Yes, let's begin with these two questions from Joan and this one here from Facebook page. Joan was asking Honorable Bolmakon how do you feel as an individual and how does the asylum feel about the suffering of the people given the promises? Yes, you made to the people, you went to the bush, fought for 21 years, achieved what you went for and now you came back since I am not the right way. And when will the asylum begin to listen to the people like what the Kenyan president, William Ruto is doing by listening to these people, taking responsibility, accepting mistakes and publicly talking to the young people. Why is it very difficult for the asylum to copy what is happening, which is good for the country anyway? Yes, Bolmakon. Okay, you are starting with number four. Yes, yes. Thank you very much. Joan. Brother Joan and it is a very good question. And if you were to give many people a question, they will ask the same question. So it is really one of the questions that is very important for the liberation struggle as asylum and also for leaders of South Sudan. And this question could be answered by whoever feels that this country might be picked. So, past my feeling about this situation is very bad. I don't like it and sometimes I don't sleep when I think about it. And I, when I remember in both Angnana and also in their sphere because I have been in the two moments, there are people who have died not knowing that this country will be like this after they have died. So when I think about those colleagues, it is very bad and it is painful. It pains me. So I want to say it is a matter of feeling. I feel bad about it. And it is true. When it is true, we put to build an equal citizenship because what we put against was a degradation of people of South Sudan to be number six. Because in that setup, the northern Sudanese man, Muslim, is the president followed by a woman Muslim who was an Arab also and then followed by an Arab coming from Arab countries and followed by a white man or woman coming from Europe or America. And then the Muslims, African Muslims from the East and the West, and we were acting at the tail. So that war was worth it. We had to fight it. We didn't want to come and this to be repeated in South Sudan. That's the feeling. We didn't want that one. We put obviously to the country where citizenship will guide us. Where equal opportunity for citizens of this country is guided by them as citizens as well as the experience and skills they have. So that they give the one. So this would be obviously for the people who are employed. The same thing in businesses, equal opportunity with a criteria set for the nation to access that kick is number one thing that we need to put there. And regard to the challenge that we need in the asylum, it is true. Let me tell you a story which is you might know, John. Someone was very hungry and was brought a put in the family by the white. The poor was hot, but because the man was hungry and cold, he was eating and that poor was burning his mouth. One of the children said, "My dad, why don't allow this food to cool down?" To cool down. The other child said, "No, let him eat so that he can feel warm." So he was saying now, the father, he said, "Yeah, my children, you are both saying the writing." As FLM is torn apart between addressing the issues of the needs of the people and the issues of the people who are trying to destroy the nation. You get me again. As FLM is caught in between the citizens who have the needs. People who brought their children and were killed by the war. People who brought food. People who supported it. And the people who want to bring the nation which you have brought already down. To his needs. To his needs. So you can see the ambibilance. That ambibilance is the one keeping the asylum, not to be behaving like a person when you are practically wounded. And you want to remove the weapon. Now the weapon may cut more veins and then the person dies. If you leave it there, then it is also threatening to the life. The question of John is that when will FLM begin to listen to the people? So we have been listening to both of you. We have been listening to people say that building peace is what is making us now pay for all these high visible people. So that we bring a body on board. Is that the price of peace? So can I go on? Yes. So we are actually ambibilance, I said. We are not doing the right way, but that's the... And then we are also trying to address the needs of the people by the developmental projects as someone has commented. We have now some term algorithms going to three of the capitals in our towns around. And when we are still as far as do more. We have accolade already planned for agricultural equipment, which is coming into the country, say that we are doing the issue of it. But the resources are not there. And we have been very unlucky to help internal conflicts and also conflicts from neighboring countries like Sudan, where our only source of revenue is now already threatened. So in that ambibilance, we cannot tell you that because I know where it will not convince you, but the real actions are that SCLM has this country at heart because there was no need to fight for it. And then we again come and dismantle it. Okay. There is this one coming from... Before we give a chance, I wanted to answer all of this so that we move to the other guest here. James Roy, my joke is asking. Do you have members of the SCLM? Are you aware about the current economic situation in the country? Basic commodities are very expensive, and citizens are struggling to survive. Civil servants, salary, are being delayed and not paid for a very long time. Are the SCLM aware about it as a party and in your meetings? What are the solutions you think should be done to fix this? It's from James Roy. And the same question is also like Martin Maluk. He has the same question to you. He is asking that as the SCLM and the government, are you aware or do you have information about the same economic situation? What's going on in Sudan with the pipeline? And how do you intend to diversify the economy to avoid our dependence on oil? That's from Martin Maluk. Another one here is also asking the same question about economy. I think everybody is asking about this. Maybe you can summarize that together as we move on to Regina. Of course, there is another question coming into Professor Abbuk. They will be answering their own as we move on. Okay, thank you very much. In fact, for both brothers, John Roy and Martin Maluk seemingly doing the same thing. First of all, it is true that we have these economic situations. And in fact, sometimes you react to things. We, the SCLM, we are doing our work. And not only the SCLM, in fact, we are working also with other partners. What is bad in this country is that people fail to recognize that this is a government of national unity. The problems we are rising after we have signed peace agreement and we are operating as a government are always brought to SCLM. And now they are enjoyed by our partners who are also within the same government. They think that it is diminishing the image of the SCLM. Why is not true? Because we are together, we are in the same boat. So, on the part of the SCLM and the party, one, we have already a committee now, which is a government committee, in fact. Which committee is that? The committee led by Honorable Tutko. It is now talking to the government of Sudan. It is also talking to rebels, so that the issue of the five lines is rectified. It says, "It will be referred, and soon oil will flow again." So the issues we are there are issues about who will benefit from it. And people are trying to see how people will benefit, everybody will benefit from it, so that we don't have a conflict, and then the oil will resume its flow. So that one is being resolved. If you are talking about the five line and it is part of the economic issue. The second thing is that, you know, because of our conflicts, we have failed, and this is what I can admit, we have failed as an SCLM from taking towns to people. Instead, we have taken people to the towns. And that's why the prices are very high. If you go to the countryside, the light is normal for both people who are not affected by insecurity. They are cultivating, they are having their animals, chickens, goats, and cows. And if you go to some places, you get a kilo of meat. A kilo of meat, which is 18,000 pounds in Cuba, is about 4,000 pounds in some places. Because I am always talking to these places, you can see the difference between 4,000 and 18,000. Just because people, big population is in Cuba and they are not employed, they are not doing anything. And that's why the difference is. And the last question is from Isaac, who should be blamed for all the challenges the country is going through? You don't blame a person about the challenges the country is going through. You can see there was a time that we were talking about the benefits. Who should the benefits go to? Should the benefits go to three people who put the fiscal war or should the benefits go to people of South Sudan? And then people said people of South Sudan have contributed in different ways. They have contributed fighting in the field, shedding blood. Some in Khartoum also have put their wars and their victims, some in the towns. In Diaspora also they were explaining the plight of people of South Sudan and they were ambusted. So everybody. It was a collective responsibility. So now this is a collective responsibility. You have no one person to blame. Okay. Thank you so much. Let's go to Hana Buregina. David Magog from WOW was asking. The SPLM rebelled because they wanted to do reform. But after getting your post, you are quiet. You don't talk about anything. There is no press conference. Talk about the reforms you have been talking about. The economy is doing very bad. The SPLM I/O are quiet and all this kind of thing. So could you respond to David Magog from WOW? Yeah. Thank you, David, from WOW. With your question, SPLM I/O didn't rebelled against the government. Because the problem started in 2013. It was all SPLM in the struggle. That caused the problem and brought about the divisions. But I want to tell you, David, we are talking, as SPLM I/O, about all what is happening. And our positions are very clear. We are asking for the reforms which has started, especially in the economic sector. That is the work of SPLM I/O. We are very clear in our position the issue of diversifying the economy sources. It's one of the ideas that we are calling for. Of course, you look at the government as a unity government. All the parties are there. SPLM I/O is part of that government. So we are working within the government, but also we are calling for the reforms in the economic sector. If you see the agreement, the agreement is made by all the parties. The question of Magok is that the people are not feeling the impact of the reforms you are advocating for. It's like if you have been pushed to a certain corner, why you are even struggling to get out from there, and being talking about the reforms you are talking about, they are not feeling the impact of those reforms. Because these reforms have not been implemented. The reforms are not implemented. You see, when the article was formed, it had been divided. Some of the responsibilities are given to SPLM, and some of it is given to I/O. And to the other party, the OPP and so on. Now, who is holding the financing pad if we come to reality? But you have members in that same committee. It's not purely, for example. I'm talking about who is funding the activities. Look, now like the peace agreement, the security agreement, the employment has not been done up to today. Phase 2 has not started. The finance comes from where? The finance comes from the ministry of finance, which is holding by SPLM. If the money doesn't come out, then things will not move, although SPLM I/O is advocating for it. Now we put the blame in Sudan crisis. Sudan crisis, which affected the oil, it started early this year. But the money was running since 2018, and we did not implement the agreement. So we cannot put the blame now that there is crisis, that is why we are unable to do it. It is not that. Okay, another question here before we go to Professor is coming from our will. This is the slow progress in the implementation of the river to less peace agreement, including the roadmap, and has echoed by the high level committee on the implementation. They categorize their findings into three in progress, implemented and not implemented. And according to what we are hearing, the only saying that 27% have been fully implemented and the rest is yet. And the question is asking, people are talking about elections yesterday. For information on our origin, the chairperson of the National Election Commission declared it to the 2nd of December, as the day to conduct election come to mind. So with all these challenges, he is asking, do you think election is viable to take place in December, has announced yesterday to the 2nd of December, just two days or three days to Christmas? Yes, thank you, our call from our will with this very important question. Yes, it is a concern for all of us, especially we in SBLMIO, depending task or the prerequisite, the prerequisite provisions that must be implemented before we go for election. All this, if we did not implement them, we cannot go for election. Let me mention them briefly, the security arrangement. We cannot go for election in an environment which is not favorable for election. So the deployment must be done, phase two must be done. All the unified forces need to be in place. The other thing is the population census. It must be the answer that we know the number of our population to help us to market the constituency. The other one is helping our refugees to come back before the census. But it is a voluntary process. Yes, but you need to facilitate them. It is voluntary, it is not somebody outside in the camp is starting coming and they have no resources. So according to that agreement, there is a construction fund which is supposed to be there to facilitate those who are voluntary, want to come back. Okay. So people should understand that difference. The other thing which is the main is the constitution. You are going for election. With what constitution? The permanent constitution gets started and we don't know when are they going to complete it. You can go with transitional constitution to election to come up with again a transitional government. We need to stop the cycle of this constitution. Also the judiciary reforms, you know, if people go for election and there are different. Where is the dispute framework in place? So all this will not take us. Okay. Let me ask this before we hear from professor. There is no survey that has been conducted and there is no scientific proof of what I am saying. But it is a general sentiment that is being echoed. That people look at your organization. They spell him, I/O, as standing on their way to election. What did you take on that? We didn't stand on their way to election. You know that election is the end game of the reversalize agreement. The last thing, after implementing all the provisions, it will take us to election. You just mentioned that they share when and announce the election. Yes, today. Wait a second, December. Yes. What is his basis on that? Where is the legal basis for him to go for election? In December, when the voter register is not ready and it needs to be ready before six months at the least. So that we go for it. For us in I/O, we are ready to go and register. Our documents are ready. But the political party says you should not have a military wing. Of course, we have the military wing. Why we have the military wing? Because the unification did not complete it up to today. And the delay meant for that money is beholding by our partner. For us to prepare for our document to go through. So all the parties must be ready for the election. Even the chair of the neck needs to consult with the people. And how you have inter-party dialogue going on, we are waiting for them to come with the end result to tell us what they have come with the end result. We should be taking it to the presidency. To the presidency. So the presidency is the one to decide to tell us the way forward. Okay. And it should come from the technical institution to tell us how long they need for us to, for them to complete, including the constitution making for us to go for election. All right. Thank you so much. We have a lot of issues to discuss that will be fun. Today we are looking at certain years after Independence where our way has an independent country. We have this question coming in from Johnson. My question is going to Professor Dork. You have written extensively about South Sudan in your 155 page book published on the 24th of November, 2022, titled The Crisis of Infancy. You have talked about what happened and what did not happen in South Sudan. The swing between peace and conflict. So has all these come to pass has prescribed in your book. That's from Johnson in Juba here. Another SMS is coming. Another message here is also going to Professor Dork. Dork is from a quite going call. And he says what key lessons can South Sudan learn from its past conflict history in Sudan. And that can guide the future policies and strategies to get out South Sudan from this cycle of violence. That's from a going call. Also going to Professor Dork. Yes, these two. Thank you very much Johnson who? Just Johnson from Juba. Oh yeah. Well, The Crisis of Infancy was written in 2014. And it was an analysis of the problem at that time. What led to the eruption of December 2013. It was an exposition of all that has happened. And now it has ended in the kind of destruction that happened in December. And of course it goes back to what I said before. That these are the things that have accumulated in the SPLM. The SPLM for quite a long time. And most of these things of course we have not resolved the fundamental problems. And that's why these things keep coming up in one form or the other. The lessons we need to learn really is that anybody, any system that operates, oppresses its people. That system will always not survive. It will not sustain. Because if you look at the abort system, it was a dictatorial, oppressive system. And it was overthrown by the people rising up against it. The same thing was numeric, oppressive. The same thing was Bashir. These are the things which we have known in our history. So any system that works against the interests of the people. Bashir, economic and political interests of the people. That system will not sustain. It will always be in serious stretch. It would be a matter of time. Somebody talked before about the system in Kenya. The system in Kenya is a democratic system. But people have gone up against it because they have seen that that kind of thing. Because on the surface, it's look as democratic, but it is not really democratic. Because we know how things are in that kind of system. It has not changed. It is still a neo-colonial in it, in character. So really, it's also the niche. I think what we need to think deeply. We really think deeply, our leaders need to think deeply about this situation. Can this situation of instability, of economic meltdown, of social, you know, chaos? Can it continue? I don't think it can continue. So what we really need is a far a dime ship and our political thinking. It's not just a question of having power or sitting as a president, you know. And then things go as the way they are going. No. You are a president in order to oversee the development, the improving the lives of the people. This is what it is. This is the meaning of being a leader. So this paradigm city, I'm talking about what? A paradigm ship and our political thinking. Yes. So from just a question of power, to question of development, putting the people in the center. About thinking. You see, instead of thinking that I'm just the leader, no, you think about the people and their welfare. This is what I mean. It has a paradigm ship and our political thinking. It has an intellectual and as a former member of this fellow man, somebody who of the political know-how of this country have published books. Do you come normal to advise the leaders of this country to put the people at the center like you are mentioning? Well, there was no way of doing that because there is no forum for doing that. But let me tell you, in fact, what we had even since we were in the movement. Yeah. The SBLM has not always been. It was not there. What we had was SBLA. Yeah. It was a military thing. That is why we have not cultivated this culture of talking to each other, of debating, of dialogue. And we never had that. You see, it was a military. You are given orders. You obey in instantaneous obedience. Or else you are... You see, something happens to you. This is what it was. Oh, you're busy. For 21 years, we never had that culture. Okay. Of discussing issues politically. Say that you know the right of somebody, and what is your right, what limits you have, and then what the other person has. This is not there. You see? So, we have not emerged from this culture, from this culture of command and orders. It's not yet. So, when we talk of SBLM, SBLM, what is it? So, when you have people who are not members of SBLM are at the top of it, what kind of a system, what kind of a political party that operates like this? That has no hierarchy in its rank. Okay. So, that you have somebody, I don't want to mention them, somebody who has been fighting the SBLM comes and sits at the top. So, how do we change the narrative? How do we change that narrative to make sure that at least... That's why I'm saying that we talk where there must be a kind of a paradigm shift in our thinking, political thinking. All right. Until that is done, we'll continue doing it this SBLM. All right. Yes, Honorable Bulmak, when our time is coming up, like I said, again, if you look at most of the SMS coming in here, they are all talking about economy, economy, economy. It's the bug, bug, bug, bug gram of any country. And also most of the SMS coming in here, they're saying that SBLM does not listen to the people. They do things their own way, they take people who are granted and all this kind of thing. I want us to end on this note of how do we do the economic recovery right now, so that people will have money to pay school fees, to pay bills, and also to embark on development. Let's begin with the Honorable Bulmak. Okay. Thank you, Burmak. In fact, the first thing I would like the listeners to know about us is that we are now a government of national unity, picking up SBLM to be blamed for the pitfalls going on in this country is unfair. And it is because the law which we said for this country that we are welcoming everyone, even including what Honorable Dictor Adok has just said, bringing people into SBLM when they don't have the credentials to be, that it's a part of holistic unity that we need to enjoy the puts of liberation, regardless to whatever role you have played during the war or previous war now. So this one thing, and it is for the good of people, by the way, the satellite is being abused. And this is why we are saying the main solution is now we go for elections. But the people of South Sudan have their own role, they can reject him during elections or accept him. And this is why we are telling everyone also to bring their candidates forward so that we go for elections. That government, when it comes, it will actually come and stop the issue of continuous transitional government transition after transition, because even the people are tired about it. And then let them register. There is a difference now between keeping a militia wing, a military wing, and registering to liberalise your position as a political party. Why are we refusing to register? Because the first thing is they have been to register and liberalise yourself, so that you have been talking politics. We have 30 political parties that have been registered now. And then I want to add this, finally. You know, during the CPA, we had the protocols that were not implemented. But it did not stop the process of elections, it was the process of referendum. And those protocols include the BIA referendum, the popular consultation of the border demarcations, where a chunk of big land of South Sudan still belongs to Sudan. So I want to tell the people of South Sudan that now South Sudan is the milking cow, and the milking cow, the owner does not benefit from it. So, don't allow your milking to be stolen. And then you keep the infighting, and your milking is being stolen. Thank you so much, Burmakwaniya, Professor. What can the people of South Sudan and their leaders do to begin drinking their own milking? Well, you have to change the policies we have been going on. You design good policies that will allow people to benefit from that, from that milking. You see, because you have a government that is implementing, this is one of the things that comrade Bolas just missed. That is not the question of, once you institute good policies, you put good policies in place, and they are implemented. Then definitely people will benefit. Okay? The problem we are having, is that since 2005, we have not had any clear policies. Where are we going? I was in the government. What about the 300, 30, 40? What does it mean? In terms, in real terms, what does it mean? That thing was done in 2011. Has it anything been implemented? I designed a higher education policy. You see, to have that by 2027, we'll have five world-class universities in South Sudan. From 2012 to 2027, only two years now has remained. Nothing has been implemented, because the money was not built. You see, what has happened, the universities are still in the school. This place is historical. Our time is running out. You see, Dubai is in a congested situation in which it is here. So really, the problem is that we have, as a people, we have not made a decision. We want to build our country and want to be built in this way. Thank you so much, Professor. Yes, finally, Regina, in the second, our time is up. Thank you, Sunny. I want to respond to the issue of registration of parties. The act is very, very clear on that. You know why the act of the political party was amended? Because there is a problem within the act. The act is to look at the international best practice. And then all the parties should conform to. There is no register party according to now, according to the act. I want to say all the parties in South Sudan must go through the process for them to register. We can leave that for another day. Like the S.Pellham, the S.Pellham registered when the act was not there. So they need to conform to the act. So all the parties must be registered. That is another topic for another day. Just concluding in the second, Satini has done a lot. And so many things have happened in the second, as we conclude. All of South Sudan that we need to have hope that things is going to change. We have gone. If Satini has gone, the other years coming, we need to do things. And our government need to have the sense of agency. We are moving very, very slow. There is no sense of agency. We need to do fast-track things so that it can take us to another era or another era. Thank you so much. I would like to thank my three panelists here for coming today to our discussion studio here. Professor Peter Broke, Honorable Bob McQuinn and Honorable Regina Joseph Cabar. I thank you all for coming. And that's it for this week. My name is Sani Martin. And we wish you a happy, sad, tense anniversary of the independence of South Sudan from Asia at Red Mirror. And thank you so much for listening. My name is Sani Martin. [Music] The Round Table