Radio Miraya
2775: ROUNDTABLE: Fostering inclusive and participatory constitution making process in South Sudan
Scrip it, man! The Round Table. Hello and a very warm welcome to Rademariah Round Table with me Yajkaran and today we are discussing the round table. Inclusive and participatory constitution making process in South Sudan. Post fostering inclusive and participatory constitution making in South Sudan. The process of drafting a permanent constitution presents a pivotal opportunity for fostering a diverse, equitable and inclusive South Sudanese permanent constitution. The citizens' participation lies at the heart of this endeavor ensuring the foundational legal document reflects the expression and perspective of all segments of South Sudanese society. However, achieving a genuine inclusivity in constitution making has proven challenging and particularly with tie timelines and amidst the complexities of engaging individualized groups. To truly embody the principle of diversity, equity, and inclusion, the people's driven process process must be established to actively involve women, youth, persons with disabilities, and other underrepresented communities. Their voices and leave experience are invaluable in shaping a constitution that uphold the rights and addresses the unique needs of every South Sudanese citizen. Inclusive constitution making not only enriches the substance of the constitutional text but also cultivates a sense of ownership and buy-in among all stakeholders. When marginalized groups are empowered to participate meaningfully, they become invested in the success of the constitution and the democratic processes. These shrines, including free and fair elections, help us to answer this question this morning. We have a question with us in the studio. Mabel, Jim is a member, a training advocate at South Sudanese Bar Association. Mabel, Jim is welcome to Radi Mariah Roundtable. Thank you very much, Yaj. Then we have Martin Corrie Ula, Executive Director for Agency for Humanitarian Assistant and Development. Welcome to Radi Mariah Roundtable, Martin. Thank you, Yaj. Then Chatele, which will be joined by Christine Adut, who is the Executive Director for South Sudanese Women Network. And then Les, but not the least, is Mandela Isaac. Mandela Isaac is Executive Director for Society Transformation for Equal Rights. Welcome to Radi Mariah Roundtable. Mabel, I know it is not your first time, it may be many times, precisely. Indeed, indeed. Thanks, Yaj. And I want to say greetings to the Maryland listeners everywhere throughout the world, and I also want to say greetings to the regular colors of Mira FM. I'm honored to be here. Thank you so much. Thank you so much, Mandela. Now, in every South Sudanese mine is an aspect of a constitution, and what a permanent constitution. So, why must the process of permanent constitution making be inclusive and satisfactory? This is the question we are trying to answer today with you in the studio and our colors and listeners across the country and beyond. So, let me begin by inviting Mandela. Mandela, having read the constitution making process Act 2022, a legislation that was passed in 2022, and attended a number of meetings of NCRC workshop, which areas do you think will enhance inclusivity, respect of diversity and equitable constitution making process in South Sudan? Mandela. Thank you so much, Yaj Gering, for this question. And this question is also lingering in the minds of South Sudanese. So, we know in 2020, okay, like September 6 of the revitalized peace agreement for the resolution of conflict known as the Arab Access. It provides for people driven and an inclusive constitution making process. Chapter 6, further, talks about the recognition of the NCRC, which will be inclusive and representative enough of people represented. In December 21, 2022, a law has been enacted known as the Consistent Making Process Act. This law talks about the constitution of the NCRC, which is already done. 609-3 talks about the political parties and the other stakeholders to submit the list of the nominees to the task force, which is already done, and persons with disabilities also submitted their list of nominees, but unfortunately, only one was taken. If you look at, when you talk about the stakeholders, the stakeholders bring together the people that you talk about, the women, the youth, persons with disabilities and other underrepresented group that people talk about the marginalized group. So, it is very important that people are represented in this constitution because it talks about people driven. So, who are the people? The people are the citizens of South Sudan, and people of South Sudan comprise of everybody. So, for the inclusivity part of this constitution, you ask a question. I don't know whether you can still frame familiar questions, sorry I can frame your question. What areas do you think need to be enhanced in the constitution making process in order to include the inclusivity, diversity and respect for all people with disabilities? There are a lot of areas that need to be enhanced. Like, for instance, when we are in the recent workshop where we are in, we saw the youth demanding their participation, and their participation for their opinions as they used to be incorporated into what, in the constitution. The persons with disabilities will also talk about them being brought in represented, so that their ideas can be incorporated in. The women also did the same. So, why the areas that we really want to be incorporated in are the areas of the affirmative action. Areas of affirmative action for persons with disabilities, areas of affirmative action for youth, and already the women have the 35%, which is not even holding, and this is one thing that we want the constitution to spell out clearly in the bills of right. That this affirmative action should be respected and held without any compromise. Thank you. I will come back to you, Mandela. Let me come to the same question. You have just finished to understand your studies, but of course you have been very much involved with this activism, and you are at the center of this question. So, in your views, what are the areas that you think they need to be enhanced in order to include and respect the diversities in the constitution making process? Thank you very much, EI, for that question. I think Mandela did make it very elaborate and got compelling submission in terms of areas that should be deeply enhanced by the current constitutional making process to ensure that there is an inclusive and equitable society. It's also the new society that everyone thinks is accepted. It's views and considerations are taken into account. I think, largely, when you look at the society, it's not a single unit. It's made up by a very diverse membership. You have women, you have youth, and the persons with disabilities. They must exist in any society. So, when you're making policies, the first thing that comes to the mind of the people is whether these policies come from the grassroots, whether these policies are people's driven policies. Because as a government, you're not an independent unit. You do not exist in isolation. You are the representation of the people. So, any kind of policy making, you must be able to appreciate that people become the center of it. So, when we talk of areas in the constitution that must be deeply enhanced, in terms of, for instance, the executive nature of the government should be one of the key institutions that must be inclusive. Because this is an institution that implements policy making. It's an institution that directly affects the population. So, the constitution must be very considerate. Mandela mentioned that there is 35%, allocated by the R-axis to women. And it's not holding. If you look at the current executive, how many women are there? It's not even, I wouldn't say it's not even a part of the 35%. That is deeply problematic. Because then, it means even when we make the laws and the government is not willing to implement, it becomes a crisis. So, two, one, two. Now, the parliament represents the diverse nature of the society. People that are sent to parliament are those ones whose views resonate with the local population. Now, if you are reconstituting the parliament, you must have at the back of your mind the women, the youth and the persons living with disabilities. The other day when we were in this training, a member of parliament was making a submission. I was wondering, a very passionate submission on the needs to include persons with disabilities. When the CRPD, that convention, UN convention for the protection of rights of persons with disabilities, was ratified into the national, the transitional constitution of South Sudan. It was around 2020, or 2021. What happened? What happened was, I mean, the president was deeply excited to put it into law. And the parliament at the time was under physical construction. Now, when the member of parliament was making a submission, that it's very important to have young people, women and the persons with disabilities incorporating the constitutional making process. But then, even practical things, like building a parliament that is accessible to PWDs. That is conducive and maybe a passage that can lead to a possibility. Very good, very good. You have just enacted a CRPD, an international instrument that protects persons with disabilities with a lot of excitement. And then you go on to construct a parliament that does not even recognize the rights in trying within their condition. Exactly. So that's another pretense to come from a lawmaker. So I think, when you talk of these areas, it's important to, like, every bit of our society must be deeply struck in the manner that no voices are left behind. Even if they are PWDs or women, a very huge chunk of our society. Hey, Mandela, before you come, before you ask, let me, let me, let me add in those areas. He already talked about the areas of the, how do you call it, the executive, that's supposed to be representative enough. People who are supposed to make very key decisions when it comes to inclusion. And he also talked about the parliament. Indeed, the parliament is one key area that needs to be enhanced in this consumer making process. Of course, we know we're heading for election. And, you know, this current parliament is a parliament which is being appointed. And mostly, I do say that does not represent the will of the people, but represent the will of the political parties for whom they are serving. And when we're not going, we're talking about the parliament and consider making process, we'll be talking about enhancing the parliament. So that the parliament really make laws that are for human beings. When I say, when I say laws for human beings, that includes everybody. Like he already put that the parliament right now is not accessible for persons with disabilities. And I even asked the question, should any member of parliament have romanticism? How will he or she access the parliament? It becomes something difficult. Another area that needs to be enhanced is the judiciary. They are the law enforcement agency. No, they are the people who interpret the law. So once the judiciary is met independent and is able to question whoever violates the rights of any person, I think will be good to go. And then another thing that either need to be enhanced that I want to talk about also are the commissions. We have commission for human rights, which is not even random representative enough, does not have even person with disability. We have the RRC, which I even know, I know it doesn't have even person with disability and it endures that are claiming to be working in the field of disability. We have a number of commission including the peace building commissions that are there. And one commission that we are trying to also add in is the commission or the council of persons with disability. It needs to be enhanced in the permanent consistency making process so that it is able to guide the country on how to deal with persons with disabilities. I will come back to both of you later on, Mabel and Mandela. Let me come to Martin and Christine. Martin, you work for an agency that is with the mandate of humanitarian assistance and development. And your heart to your mandate is helping the persons with disabilities to leave a meaningful life in the society so that their rights are protected. Now, why do you think that the process of construction making must be diverse, must consider a principle of diversity, inclusivity and participatory? Especially with the underrepresented groups here and we are talking of people with disabilities, women, youth and so forth. Thank you, my colleague, for this brilliant question. First of all, let me begin with giving a bit of a background why this constitution. We know that this constitution came as a result of conflict settlement. Right. And the underlying fact there is that there have been a lot of boiling grievances of various political parties or opposition groups who claim they all represent their consistency. That include all citizens and in particular, special interest groups like people with disabilities, women, youth and so on. So, the essence there is that grievances relating to issues to do with inclusion in all political processes and in processes of sharing. For example, resources must be addressed and they must accommodate everyone in the country. So, by ensuring that these special interest groups underrepresented groups such as youth, women and people with disabilities are included or represented in the constitution making process number one, they will be able to understand the content. So, the constitution is a supreme law of the country that guides the actions of the society, the actions and norms of the society, how the society should be governed. So, in that regard, they will be able to understand the content, what is the content. And if you don't participate in something you will not be able to understand the content. Not only that, you will not be able to respect and abide by the guiding principles of this supreme law. And therefore, you will not be able to act within the limits of a constitutional government. And if there is no, if citizens don't act in accordance with the limits of constitutional government, that creates anarchy. People will be acting the way they want. So, we don't want a situation where our country will be leveled in the undemocratic society. Number two, it also minimizes tendencies of arbitrary exclusion in a location of privileges and rights, as well as resources to all citizens in the country. So, we know very well that particularly other categories, such as people with disabilities, because of their long history of marginalization in societies, have not had access to, for example, education opportunities and other privileges. So, if we do not include them in this process, that means the existing claims or allegations or whatever of marginalization will continue, and in fact, will not be building a stable society. And people should ask themselves today, you think that you are able, but in one minute you can be a person with disability, because disability can also be acquired. Also, you know, we are not in isolation as a country. There is this global movement for democratization of societies. So, if we don't embrace these principles of participation, we will not look legitimate as a government in the eyes of the international community, and therefore, we will not have international support in terms of maybe getting support in international financial institutions, like the international monetary fund, the World Bank, and so on. They will say this country is not democratic. Yeah. Okay, thank you very much for this background. Martin, let me come to Christine. Christine, same question would apply. Why you have just conducted a swing in collaboration with other partners on this political affairs, just facilitated the workshop, a two-days workshop, that was handled in the same area. And your swing, the organization that you lead, that is South Danish, women network, South Danish, women network. How many network? In power men network. Yeah. What motivated you to think about this marginalized group as an activist, as a civil society? And why do you think it is important that this process, the upcoming process, or the process that has started must be inclusive? And what are you doing with other partners in order to lobby and help the persons who are living with disabilities and other underrepresented groups to be included in the process? And maybe there was hurt, and maybe participate, and you won the process in itself. I argue that the process in the grievances, their concern in the process, as Martin just put. Christine? Very good morning to everyone. Thank you, Dr. H for the question. Actually, I have to break down according to the way that you asked the question. Yes. The first and foremost is legitimacy and acceptance. For example, we need a constitution that embed the provisions for women to participate fully and equally. And second to it also, we need the protection of rights. In most cases, we look at people with disabilities, sorry, the youth and the women, we see them as part of the community. But what are we doing to promote their rights in the constitution? What are we doing for them to be able to access whatever facilities that they need to access? The third part of it is that it enhances democracy. For example, democracy strives on inclusivity and participation. So when we involve the underrepresented groups, it ensures that democracy principles are represented. And then there's also need for accountability as well. So the first thing I could talk about is the effective governance. If different groups have brought together and unique perspectives and experience through the table, there is inclusive processes that harness the diversity in different forms. And when I say that, I mean even at the grassroots level, in most cases, people only focus in Juba, being the town, and maybe other town areas like Moao and Malakal. But they exclude the other minority groups in the villages, deep down there. And we really need the messages to get through them. Then there is also the long-term stability of the country. If the constitution is meant to provide a stable framework for governance over the long-term, then it means that inclusivity in the constitution making process helps build consensus and reduces the risk of future conflicts or grievances based on exclusion or perceived injustices. There is also empowerment and participation in all this. When we involve these underrepresented groups, it empowers them to actively engage in shaping the future of their country. However, what you're trying to do, they say one hand can club with organizations, and also, for example, now this is the first of its kind, partnering with staff, AHD, and strength. And these are all organizations that are focusing on different aspects. For example, it's focused on women, staff focuses on people with disabilities and AHD focuses on their youth. So as such, as we have done, this is the beginning of having it in Juba. The next step, we shall take it to the grassroots, the 10 states, and the three administrative areas. So we are trying to do a lobby and advocacy. It's going to be our focus right now, so that we can also reach the places. I know it's going to not be easy, but with consultations from our team, we shall be able to make it through. Thank you. Christian, the NRCRC is preparing to launch a civic education program to enroll it. And this is an area whereby you, as activists, and together with partners here, fellow activists, this is an area you would want to work extensively so that you reach your ground because the persons with disabilities and other represented group, majority of them live outside the major towns that you have just mentioned. So what are your plans? What are you doing in collaboration with other partners, including the NRC, to make sure that you have an area whereby you would want to advance theclusivity of this underrepresented group in a civic education? Christian. Thank you so much, Victoria. First and foremost is the public awareness. When we're the public, the aware of the rights, because when we include all these aspects of the marginalized group in the constitution, there's need for legitimacy and acceptance, and that's why I put it as a first point, because once the public's aware that when we are to do this activity, we need the presence of the people with disabilities, we need the presence of the youth and we need the presence of women, it's going to be embedded in everyone's mindset that for you to have, even if it's the small office for you to conduct an activity, you need each group represented, so that is the first step, because we've had so many things happening whereby maybe a meeting is being conducted on the first floor, on the third floor, and there are no ramps in the hotel, and then you expect it to be diversity, inclusive and equity for everybody, you know? So you realize that you're only allowing those who are able to access these facilities, that's the first thing. The second thing also is for us to, I would also like to, by the way, appreciate NCRC, they're doing a great job. Most of the cases when we've invited them to these functions and workshops, they've always been presented, they've always been attending, and also in case of maybe failures to attend, much as sometimes they may come late, but still they attend. Reason being, it's one of their mandate to see that we as organizations, we as CSOs are moving forward, based on the capacity that we are able to enhance. So for me, what I would really express is the fact that advocacy and lobbying is not only for the CSOs, it's for each and every one of us, it's for everyone in the country. So if everyone is involved in this awareness campaign, and also if everyone is involved in this, let me just say, I think we can reach higher dimensions, because even if we have to construct so many workshops in different towns and different places, and no one is being able to help give a helping hand, it will also be in vain. Okay, thank you. Mabel, I know you, during your studies, you must fret and compare the situations of people with disabilities in your countries just then, and those other countries. What does it feel? What are the challenges, the major challenges that can be addressed in the constitution-making process, the people with disabilities are facing issues that need to be addressed now. Having this experience, and having observed around, having opportunity to study, having opportunity to engage, you must have compared your society and other societies, and felt that these are issues that need to be addressed and need to be addressed in your constitution. Mabel. Thank you very much again. I think one, I'll begin with the fact that education system does not even recognize disability in this country. It's not inclusive enough, it is not taking into account the fact that we have a very vast majority of disabled community in South Sudan. I think that's an area we want to be able to revolutionize first. What does an inclusive education look like? It means that you do not, for instance, set up only schools meant for persons with disabilities, because that is discrimination you need to sell. In itself, if you set up a school, this one school that came into attention, I think Mandela would help me. It's called the school where they're teaching the blind. You see, when you teach the blind alone, I think you're discriminating. Because they come from families, they don't have homes of their own. They wake up in a family of five or even ten. Then you send them to schools where it's only them learning. Who comes and when they come back, do they go to institutions in the institution of the blind? Where do they work? Will they work with the institution of the blind? Very good. I'm coming to that as a biggest work. You also have persons living with impairment, the deaf and the dumb. They come from within us. You want to set up schools where it's only them learning. Who will they speak to? They don't speak to themselves. They have to exist among people and communities, and you would have to be able to communicate with them. I think for us to be able to address our education system, it must be very inclusive. It means now the curriculum development must be a very central conversation within the constitutional making process. That sounds to them, of course. We have the luxury of time. We are not like some countries that are already advanced. We are in a developing stage and we have to take stock of this opportunity so that when we are making laws, this is a very massive opportunity for us to catch up with the rest of the world. It means then education system must be recognized within the constitutional making process. That begins by including the persons living with disabilities in this process of developing a permanent constitution. That's first. But then secondly, within the governance architecture of South Sudan is people. It must be very incumbent on us, every member of the society. When you are forming an executive, like I said, I want to be very practical. You can't speak about issues with disability. If nobody within the executive, within the parliament, within the judiciary, with disability. Because I have seen there is always a lot of bias in this institution. If you don't have a disability, you do not appreciate the challenges that come with people with disabilities. That's the same position women are talking about. You are not a woman and you are trying to lecture me about my problems. You do not understand what exactly I face on a regular basis. It should be very fundamental that government institutions must have people with disabilities occupying very high positions. For instance, if you have about 10 ministries, of the 10 ministries, four of them or five of them should be persons living with disabilities. This is a very huge chunk of our society. But also we have a very unique context in South Sudan. We have been in war for over 20 years. That means over the last 20 years fighting for liberation, we have had to lose people on a regular basis. We have had people that got into artificial deformities, people that had to be blind by guns, people that had to become dumb because of the gun. Some people that had to physically lose their lives. That is not the context of every other nation in the world. So this means in South Sudan we have probably even the largest number of persons living with disabilities in the region. So then why do you want to be able to not include these people? It is a very serious conversation we need to have. But even it is also morally objectionable that in our communities we have these attitudes and stereotypes against persons living with disabilities. In our society. In our societies, very serious stereotypes. For instance, I have not met what I come from. Someone living with impairment has appointed as an executive chief in the community. A village of paramount chief or a village elder that presides over these issues. Unless he becomes blind in the cause of his duty. That is like stages of his life. But then they don't appoint these people to leave. Let me bring this to your attention here in the studio. I have a privilege of meeting one member of parliament who was elected in 2010. He served in the parliament and in the process he got sick and he lost his sight and he was replaced. Very good. That is a very sensitive issue you have brought to my attention. Thank you very much for that. Now if you are replacing this person, what are you telling our society? That they don't have the capacity to govern because they have lost their eyesight? What does it tell us? Because you are only blind but you have the brain. Your intellectual capacity and abilities are not blind. With education. Of course with education. So it sends a very serious message that our attitudes to disability and South Sudanese is something that is deeply disparaging. We need to discourage that with all the passion that is there. It is a current process of conversation making. Does it give you a sense that all these that you are saying will be considered in the process as we head towards making parliament of conversation? I'll be very honest. I don't think this is promising opportunity for us. I don't think it recognizes the fact that this is a very serious conversation we need to have. The NCRC is trying to engage you in workrooms and stuff like that. But then look at the composition of the NCRC. How many persons living with disabilities do you see there? Mandel just told us one. Only one person. How many people, how many of them? What is the composition of the NCRC? 57. 57. And only one person lives with disabilities. Just a drop in the ocean. Look at that. Look at that. It is deeply problematic. It feels so bad as a South Sudanese that we continue to ignore this fundamental aspect of us. This is the opportunity. This is the opportunity. Here you have the mic. What can be done in order to reconsider this? If it was all up to me, first the first thing I began with is actually reconstitute the NCRC. And making sure that we have at least 20% or even 30% of that composition as a person living with disabilities. You're not going to go out there at 57 of you speaking about disability when only one person a drop in the ocean is a person living with disabilities. We have so many of them in the society. Very many of them. And you have a very powerful institution, a government institution that is mandated to legislate to enact laws, but also to promulgate those laws. And within that institution, you only have one person living with disabilities. I think that's a very important problem. Mandela. Mandela, you are an executive director for society transformation for equal rights, a star in short. What is the number? What is the statistic of people with disabilities if you have it? To her represented, are they in government institution? I know we have just highlighted it in the process. Then two, what connections? What links do you have? Does the organization have with the commissions or that is NCRC? And other bodies like National Election Commission, National Statistics of Bureau and so forth and so forth, so that you advance the interest of persons with disabilities. Thank you so much. Before I could answer these three questions, which I will ask you later on to also catch up to get back to me. But I need to answer a question regarding to why this process must be inclusive. You ask a good, and I want to also add my voice. Welcome. This process must be inclusive because of the following reason. One, it is a demand of the agreement, which is clearly stipulated in chapter six, that we need to have people driven and an inclusive, consistent making process. Two, before you go to two, what is people's driven and inclusive constitution making processes? It means that this constitution should emanate from the people. It should be the ideas of the people. It should be their opinion. They should be consulted. And what they say is what should be put forward. The people are the citizens of Republic of Constantinople, which include me, you and that woman in the village who has never gone to school or went to school, and that person with disability who is there in the village who never went to school or went to school, including the tribes that are here. Remember, even we have tribes up to Jebel Buma De Ka Chippo. I don't know where they are represented somewhere. And there are other tribes that are really being forgotten. This concern talks about bringing them on board. So we need to go down to the chiefs on site right from the boomers, the villages up to the highest level. So this is very important. Again, in the international standards, the laws, how do you call it, the human rights instrument? The international covenant on civil and political rights, Article 25 talks about that. For persons with disability, they say persons with disability have a right to participate in public affairs. Then the convention and rights of persons with disabilities also talks about it. See that, Article 7 talks about that. So these international instruments add weight to the inclusivity of this constitution. Remember, Greg, right now, this too many programs taking place in Nairobi. And it's unfortunate that no person with disability was taken from Satsudan for his voice or her voice to be added into this too many programs, yet we are talking about Satsudan. So how can Satsudan be inclusive without even persons with disability or women or youth? That is really very, very disturbing. So now another thing was what my bill also talked about. In concerning areas that we really need those areas to be put clearly. The representation, Greg, it's very important that people are represented. I should have a person with disabilities that I elect to represent me because he will come back and consult me in case of anything. That is for accountability. You cannot like some member of parliament yesterday, in a workshop pointed article that what he only saw in the parliament are persons who were wounded during the time of war. Other one who are there, representing the interests of the war wounded. How about the rest of the persons with disabilities? So in one representation of persons with disabilities to be clearly stipulated and should start right from the villages with the chiefs. When they are forming the council, when they are forming the chiefs, they should also include persons with disabilities so that their issues are captured right from the villages. And then coming to the other levels of the government. So the presentation is key and this representation should be encompassed by the affirmative action that I talked about earlier on. Because when you don't have the affirmative action clearly stipulated in the constitution, nobody will take that on into consideration. I was really very, very disappointed. I sat in the NCC, the National Consumer Amendment Committee. We proposed 2% for persons with disabilities and 3% for the youth because we realized they had nothing. When the thing went to the parliament, the parliament scrapped it off and they gave it to the president to be done to appoint people, not people electing their own person. So to me, that was a miscarriage of democracy. It was a rope. They roped the persons with disabilities of their rights. And that to me, it doesn't really sound like we have a very good parliament. We have a parliament that really passes what their parties really want. And I know, I cannot blame them because the agreement which was done in the disability were not there. So there's nothing about persons with disabilities without them being there. That is one of the things. So we need to learn from this mistake that has happened in the agreement. That next time, in case of things taking place like that, let us consider each and everybody. Now, you asked the question in regarding how connected society transformation for equal rights is with these other bodies that you mentioned. Society transformation for equal rights work with other partners. We work with partners like for example, now we have the AHD, we have SOIN. We also have connected the OPDs, the organizations of persons with disabilities that are having linkage right in the state. And we also have the Ministry of Gender that we are connected with. But unfortunately, we are not connected to the Bureau of Standards. We are not connected to them. But we are not going to leave them out. We will consult them and we will be able to present our issues when it comes to persons with disabilities. And then with NCRC, of course, we have already one person that is Maud Lewis. Maud is proceeding for persons with disabilities there. We are earlier on said that's a drop in the ocean. We know that he will speak, but people will try to step on his voice. But Maud will continue to come to us and consult us and be able to give him whatever opinions that we want to tell him. And then, in regarding to the data of persons with disabilities, you know, the global, according to World Health Organization, 16% of the total population of persons with disabilities. For us in Satsudan, we did not conduct sensors ever since we got independent. What we are relying on was the 2008, how sensors, which put persons with disabilities at 5.1. But there are also other data collected by different organizations that puts persons with disabilities at over, over, over. I think this will be almost over to a million. This will be 2 million. Because, you know, apart from the 5.1, that if you calculate mathematical and you multiply according to the 1 total million Satsudan, you could talk about 600 persons with disabilities, which I know it is not true. But with the subsequent war of 2013 and 2016, even when you talk about accident that happened on daily basis, you talk about the second SS, you talk about, you know, persons with disabilities are really many. But the problem here is that the society does not see them. They are there, but they are not seen. I gave you an example where we went and we carried some assessment and we were asking certain parents to tell us how many kids maybe he had. He will tell you, I have 6, but one has an impairment. That means that 6 becomes an addition. It is not considered in that community. So I want to just inform the public that we are over 2 million and we are heading for election. To all the political parties that are outside there, we will look at your manifesto. We have already seen what the current government is doing for persons with disabilities, which is not really something so good. Now, we need 2 million data there. If you convince our families, our friends, and our relatives, I think a party can fail with flying colors. So people have to watch out. They really have to watch out there. Before we do that, they need to take persons with disabilities in consideration. Because I think it is not a lie. If you convince, if you convince your relatives, and you really convince others, won't even the party that claims to be the most powerful party. Can they lose election? So, Ganon, Ganon, I think I thank you for this question. No, Mandela, this is a flat phone. I know there are challenges, part of the questions that you did not answer and I want to bring it back. There are challenges that people with disabilities are leaving day on day. Some of them you have mentioned there. For sure, out of your personal experience, this question is not meant to bring about bad feelings, but it is meant to bring about lessons, lengths, and to tell others that disability in itself is not in ability. Now, personally, your challenges, that you have on day to day, and you are trying to overcome them, and you have been dead overcome them, and you are an executive director, you lead, you do anything that any South Sudanese can do in South Sudan. What are these challenges, and how do you tell your unfortunate people with such conditions that are suppressed down, that are made to believe that they are useless in society? Mandela. The challenges that apply to me, it applies to almost all persons with disabilities. Right. I want to start from negative attitude. Negative attitude is one of the most, the most thing that really can bring somebody down if you are not strong. When, as an executive director, when I come to an office, people do not think that I am leading or am heading some organization. What they believe in that, no matter how smart I dress, they think I have come to ask for something. To beg, to beg. That's what they believe. No matter how you even wear that very good suit, what they believe in that, you have come to ask. And the English is speaking. The English I speak, I don't know, I don't know where I is, like there is a memory card inside it in me that has a voice over that speaks in English. I don't know. This is the gift that you let others know. So, so, so these people think that they believe that way. Another thing that really, really, it really affects me as a person, as an executive director, not to be able to serve my people is the absence of funds. You know, up to now, most organizations, whether national, international, belief, persons with disabilities do not have that capacity. They think that persons with disabilities are people who are supposed to be given, they are not supposed to be implementers. And that is the same thing that is also facing the organizations of persons with disabilities. So, when I come, generally, to persons with disabilities, I have been travelling. I went to almost all of us at Sudan. The situation there is really dire. Persons with disabilities are left to survive at the mercy of God. Let us talk about this current economic situation. You have a person with disabilities not being employed. Or you even have a person with disabilities who is a soldier who is earning maybe 3,000 such as a respondent who gets it after 9 months. You have a woman who has been impregnated and the person took off and this woman is taking care of that child and this is not employed. And she has visually impaired impairment or she has physical impairment or she is having hearing impairment. This scenario is happening all over the country I went to. And essentially, I have been in Yambio. I met two ladies with hearing impairment who have been impregnated, not even once but twice. And the husband took off. The people who impregnated them took off. And these people have to battle to take care of these kids now. If other persons who are having no impairment are suffering economically, what will happen to persons with disabilities? You see that? So as society transformation for equal rights, now I don't feel about my challenges, but I feel the challenges of other people. Because for me, I have that opportunity. I went to school despite all the challenges, despite the nick naming that they would use. Instead of calling me Mandela, they called me Amiyan, the bride, despite all those challenges. Despite the challenges of lack of those equipment, like the braille machines and braille papers, we could cut manila papers in order to write on them. We could even maybe go and listen off-head. And then, you know, despite all those challenges I met through and I am a graduate of public administration and management. And right now, I am successful and I already established an organization. But my concern is, what about that person in the rural area? Who does not have that access to go to school? Who is being stepped over by their parents? So I really need to call upon this platform. I need to call upon the society. That the person who is speaking right now in Mera FM is someone who is not seen. As I went to school, and also I am able to perform like other colleagues, these kids that you have in the villages can also perform the same. But the challenge here is the challenge. Opportunities are not there in the rural areas. Opportunities are only here in Cuba. Maybe we would want to go there, maybe so I don't want to go there, A.H.D. you want to go there, style want to go there, even my bill on himself want to go there. But how can he reach, or how can we reach there? That's the concern. So, negative attitudes, accessibility issues, like communication, and other, and then the institution of barriers. Those aren't because our institutions do not have policies that favor persons with disabilities. Because right now, we have the convention on the rights of persons with disabilities. But who knows about the convention? People don't know. Even if I come here to help me, and I go to the security department, I ask them do you know anything about the UN convention? They know nothing about it. So that means, this convention and other laws that are here for persons with disabilities need to be disseminated to the communities so that they know about them. For me right now, I am an IT. I can call myself an IT because I install software that can help persons with visual impairment to access computer. And I can talk, as society transformation for equal rights, I worked hard and I got about 10 computers that can now be used for persons with disabilities in order for them to access ICT. So this is one thing that I need to pass. I have those challenges, I have moved over them. My colleagues in the villages who have disability, please, you can move over them if you are committed, if you are strong, if you don't give up. Thank you so much. Thank you so much, Mandela. This is a very moving statement that you are releasing and you are educating the public and South Sudanese parents and peoples with disability. That disability, whether a vision in fact or physical impact does not end you to achieve your potential. And indeed, you have made it, Mandela. Thank you so much, Mandela, for all these. I think this is a platform that we need to indicate ourselves, our parents. We parents too with such children to offer them equal rights. Now, let me come back just for one minute to Martin. This is a situation that you will find ourselves. Mandela and my bill have just told us that they are living experience and they are achievement with all these. How difficult is it to support peoples with the disability? You are an organization that deals with them, just in two minutes. It is not difficult for say to support people with disabilities if there is a political and availability of resources. The challenges Mandela said is scarcity of resources and the attitude of people towards people with disabilities. People saying people with disabilities do not have substance and they are not helpful to society. This is the perception of communities, actually, and families. And because people who lead the society come from families, these perceptions and stereotypes are also carried to all levels of governance. I want to emphasize here that regardless of people's perceptions, people should know that all people are created by God. Whether you believe in God or you believe in nature, say by nature, for example, people have opinions regardless of disability or status. I want to give a simple example in one remaining minute. I read some leadership literature and they said, as a leader, you must listen to everyone and they gave an example of this company that makes their journey powder. That at one point that company that makes their journey powder was about to run bankrupt and people who have been notified in the company worldwide. That this time things have gone wrong, we are going to lay people off, thousands. So there was one person, an educated person who is just a cleaner. And people used to undermine him, they don't invite him to meetings, but this person was always listening to meetings through the window as he was cleaning. Clean, yeah. And then this person came and whispered to, and then he came in and they said, "I'm worried because of this layoff." But manager, from my observation, the holes that bring out this powder are very small. When you protect this powder, they use it for six months also. So once people have bought this thing, it does not get exhausted. So people still keep these powders in their houses. So if we increase the holes of this powder, to a certain dimension, these women will use this powder in three months, or one month, you need to buy another powder. Then when they increase the holes, each man, you exhaust one bottle and people call themselves. So imagine somebody who never went to school, he said, "Clean up." Who brought this suggestion and saved a lot of people from layoff in that organization. So this underlines the fact that let us not undermine anyone in society, if you want. And particularly, this constitution, as provided for by the comprehensive piece of agreement, is said to be a federal democratic constitution. And what are the principles of federalism? We want participation. We want people to have voices and to have what we call veto powers. Minority groups, federal minority groups, like people with disabilities and ethnic minorities, should have veto powers. They can say no. If they perceive the actions or whether this is met by the executive or any organ of the government to be impeding a particular segment of the society. So that please prevail in this country. And this should be taken care of. Thank you. Thank you so much, Martin, and thank you very much. And my guests in the studio, let go for a three-minute break. And when we come back, which I'll figure from there with Kristin Duten, all our listeners within and beyond the country, you will be able to call us on 0-9-12-06-2950 or 0-9-12-06-2079. You can as well call us on M-T-N-09-2968-6295. Stay tuned for the next session of this discussion. [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH] [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH] [MUSIC PLAYING] Broadcasting from the heart of the nation's capital, this is Radio Mariah. 101 and 101.5 FM, Radio Mariah, the voice of peace. [MUSIC PLAYING] [MUSIC PLAYING] [MUSIC PLAYING] [MUSIC PLAYING] 101 FM, Radio Mariah, powered by the people, uniting the nation, your preferred station, the voice of peace. [MUSIC PLAYING] [MUSIC PLAYING] [MUSIC PLAYING] The voice of peace. [MUSIC PLAYING] The round table. Informative, fresh and direct. What do the people of South Sudan want? They want just any government or they want a government that they feel will represent the kinds of things they need that will bring a sustainable peace. Here from the experts, policymakers and major stakeholders about trending national issues around you on the round table, ideas are served. [MUSIC PLAYING] Join the experts as they discuss national issues and how they affect you. [MUSIC PLAYING] My name is Hannah Tetta. I'm the UN Special Envoy for the Horn of Africa. I'm prior to that I was the UN Special Representative to the African Union. Now, peace is something that we have to build every day. It hasn't come by accident. It's people making the conscious efforts not to resort to conflict, but to find other means of addressing their grievances. And it is important that everybody plays a role in building peace. Because if you delegate the responsibility to someone else and everybody adopts that attitude, there will be no peace. [MUSIC PLAYING] [KNOCKING] Hey, man. What's up? I'm cool, man. I had that you got a job with you and congrats. Thank you so much. You know that was my dream job. I'm so happy, my dear. So you're going to make all this money? Why don't you get invited to my little C's, bro? You mean your sister, the one below the age of 18? Yeah. The one means about your complete high school. You mean me? No. I am not ready to marry now. I am just a child. I want to finish my studies fast. That's right. As a UN staff member, I'm not allowed to have sexual relationship with anyone below the age of 18. We, as members of the UN, abide by the UN Code of Conduct, which prohibits this. I can't involve in this. Oh, I see. Thanks for the education. This message is brought to you by the United Nations Mission in South Sudan. Repost sexual exploitation and abuse by calling CDT hotline number 091 210012 or email, almost-cdt@un.org. [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] Thank you so much for the question. First and foremost, I would like to say that the percentage, the 35% is actually threshold. It's not a limit, and I believe that we women can raise above that. And how difficult it is. The only difficulty, actually, currently is the willpower. And then secondly, it is the fact that much as we have ratified so many documents, the CDO, the photo protocol that was really ratified. And most cases, the implementation becomes very, very difficult and tedious, I think, because they take it just like a paper. It's a rain sign and that's it. But who is following up to make sure that these ratified documents are really implemented and worked upon. When Mandela was talking about the people living with disabilities, there is a woman, but then there is a challenge of a woman with disabilities. They are not the same. When we women face economic situations, economic difficulties and hurdles, what happens to the woman living with disabilities, a woman with disabilities, rather? And how are they accessing all these things? So it's not actually difficult because once we unite as women and we come together with one voice, one strong voice, and really behind our rights, I don't think it can be very difficult for us to achieve our objective because it can even raise above 35%. The only issue is right now is most cases we are faced with financial challenges and then there is need for financial support as far as advocacy is concerned on these grounds. Second to it also is education level. Most our brothers have gone ahead of us in this country because they had the privileges and they had that accessibility to access education. But right now when you look at the number of women that have really accessed schools by schools, I mean the high end, let's say universities and other higher institutions, the masters, the PhDs, most people right now, the weapons are talking. But when the weapons talk, we realize that the majority of women don't have those papers. It's only the few and the few cannot access just because of some other difficulties and also struggles that they are going through. Another difficult thing I would also talk about is the advocacy and the lobbying. Most of these people that you see, there is always a lobbying done. There are those who go to offices and talk during day but there are those services that are provided during night. There is that table and I always say it prohibits us women because as a woman you will not stay out late in the night trying to lobby for a position and also try to see what you can do for the country. But the men, it's okay for them. You will not come back home as a married woman and say I have been lobbying for a position in the government. It doesn't make sense at midnight, at 10. What was that that you were doing? Why was that? Couldn't you do it during the time? So it becomes also difficult. Another issue also could be the fact that they are holding them in hotels and as a woman you cannot go to a hotel and say you're lobbying there. Because people always have this stereotyping of women, they always believe that women cannot do something without giving her body. We still have that as a challenge in the country and it needs to be addressed. We also have women who are stigmatized for some reason or the other. It could be because of disability or it could also be because of the marginalized because sometimes you find one woman, let me give an example of myself. I'm like right now I'm the only female. So if I was not empowered I would be like okay let me shy away from this gentleman. So it also comes in and also to distract women because society teaches us that as a woman is supposed to be fearful, you're not supposed to be talking while the husband is talking. You're not supposed to be looking into the men's faces, you're not supposed to be. So it goes back to the culture and tradition and norms that we have grown up seeing and witnessing our parents go through and how we were raised up. So it becomes also a challenge but it isn't still, I would say it isn't difficult. We can't raise above that if we put our voices together. I do it before you come, just follow up on what you say is challenging and why it is difficult to implement the 35% affirmative action. We have the difficulties and I know of the stereotyping and the barriers that are put by society to curtail the progress of women. They need a holistic approach towards this but let's look at political. Political, there are strong women in South Sudan now at the highest level. Take, for example, we have Mamanya Deng, Vice President, we have Angelina, Minister of Bear of Apple. We have Nuno, a Honorable Nuno as a Speaker in the House. And yet what has been agreed by all parties and it is enshrined in the constitution. It is disseminated as far as all the corners of South Sudan are. That there is this agreement that a 5% of every sector in society must go to the women. In order to bring ourselves up so that we are at equal footing. This is not yet achieved. Why is it very difficult yet we have women sitting at a power position? Before he comes, he is still putting up points. I want to interject here. My observation is that societies are deeply entrenched in what we call negative masculinities. Negative masculinities when people believe that men are more rational than women. For example, all know they do. Men are perceived to be powerful. Men are perceived to be more rational and to be controlling on top of things in society. So in order to get what happens is that as Christian rightly put it, a woman cannot go at midnight to start lobbying. Some of these high-level political party lobbying in the platforms take place sometimes late hours. So the perception is that via negative masculinities men will assume that women become sexually abused or vulnerable when they leave the home state for certain hours. So this is a wrong perception. The question is, men forget that women are met by the same God. They also have the same feelings and their ability to say no to certain things. If, for example, men cannot do it, do men accuse themselves of also cheating on their wives. For example, when they go for those meetings, why should they visit their wives to be cheating? Not doubting their honesty when they go out to those political engagements. That means they do it. So those women who succeeded, succeeded because they have an enabling environment. If you look at Madam Rebecca, she was with her husband who was a high-level politician, so they moved together. If you look at the other one, a gentleman and then, sorry, for their pronunciation. She is the wife to a first-wife president, and so their husband is also a politician, so both of the same feathers flock together. So the challenge is to these women at the grassroots level. Let's take the smallest political unit alone. The common political unit is the judiciary in the villages, where decisions are met. Community decisions are met. And then the customs of the chiefs. And these chiefs are mostly men, men. This is a petroleum society. So we want these serious advocates to be taken to the grassroots level, where women are also represented. There is no thing of these parliament, there is the smallest parliament, they are where women are whipped. But Madam, I would like to... I've never forgotten you, but there is one thing that I am driving at. Madam, at political level, women can as well use their feminine powers. You know, women are powerful. And we can attest to that in our families. When the mother says no, then everybody will go angry that day. So this is the power. So why is it very difficult that these women, our leaders, who are at the helm of the power, political power, are unable to use their powers to implement 35 percent? Can I come in before my team comes in? The thing is this, to me the thing is this, you are really right here. We have those women who have lived in these political seeds since 2010. They have that power to speak to the men, the so-called men who are there in that same seed. What is their problem? Their problem is greed and selfishness. These women are not talking because they are happy, they are comfortable. Even though they are not comfortable, they should also speak for the rest of those women. Number two is lack of mentorship. You are not mentoring the rest of their female colleagues. For example, if a dude today is a member of parliament, can't a dude look behind her back and say who is coming up after me so that when I am leaving this person takes over? Those lack of mentorship programs, they need to have them. Why have you seen these top women political leaders coming up with a program trying to encourage fellow women to take up seeds? Because they are supposed to be role models, but they are not role models, they are comfortable. You are hidden in your vehicle and driving, you don't care about the woman who is behind there. So that has been our challenge and the men have taken it as an advantage. Look, this was what was agreed for. The 35% was agreed for. It should have been given to the women wholeheartedly without any subtraction, but the lack of commitment. From both the political parties and even those women who are seated right now at the parliament, they are not talking about it. Even they are talking about it, they are making political statements, but implementation has become a little bit difficult. Thank you so much. Thank you. No, no, no. Let, let, let, let. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Please. Yeah. Go ahead. You see why we are having issues in the country. Just from one to another. Anyway, thank you, Dr. Ayaj, for the question you had faced Alia on the powerhouse women that are in the government. First and foremost, I would like to also commend Martin for coming through, but also there is something I need to correct. You see, when this report addressing the men, they addressed with their titles. Have you seen how he addressed how he addressed the women in the government? He just went straight on the limit thing. Honestly, you know, I think it was a man in this position right now. He would be, he would actually, yes, he would really, he feels attacked. Yes, I was remarking him. Martin, you must, apologies. I was saying, sleep at the time. Sorry. We need, we also have a problem. We have that gap because even when you're in those positions, you're not recognized, you're not valued. Much as they just put there for the sake of the 35%, we have grand de facto 35% of formative action and that's it. But what about the implementation part? How do you address them? How are they addressing offices? I've had instances aware by someone is a minister, but because they have gone for maybe a workshop somewhere out of the country, they are told to safety because they are the only female that are in that place. So it becomes really challenging because we still have that, much as we, we claim that we have gone to school, we've dedicated and we have emancipated, people are still having the background of the old ways of tradition and behavior. Another thing also, much as you've talked about the fact that they have been there in the government and they've done a lot and all that, but I should appreciate the fact that we have transitioned. But 10 years ago, I don't think we had as many women as we have right now in the country, in the parliament and also in the political arena of the country. So we should appreciate the veto that they are doing. Maybe the concern would have been is why is it that we are seeing the same faces in the government of women. How I haven't, we've seen the youth being represented in those arenas. And why is it that they are not emerging faces because it's the same names that are recycled. And these people have the ability, they have the power, they have the authority to transfer the same power to the young generation. There is need for intergenerational dialogues, which actually is one of the advocacy things that we are actually working on. There is need for this people to come down and talk to them. But again, when you organize things, it ends up in jubo, it ends up in the towns. What happens to the vipa de grassroot? So it becomes really a challenge. But as far as we are concerned, we don't want just positions, by the way. You say before that there are women in the positions. Why are they doing the trial behind? We don't just want positions. We want positions of authority in the country. We want positions that matter. Give us the position of ministry of finance. That's what even there is a position of ministry of control. Yes, because we have capability. Even the governorship of the central bank. Exactly. Because we can do that. And I believe that if we can, women can multitask. We can do so many things at the same time. Which is also something that means can't. A man would be focused on one direction and that's it. I'm sorry, it's not a... True. But that is a reality. But women, we can do so many things at the same time. If we are given that same power to say, let us work on this. Give us that opportunity to lead in the finance department, in the petroleum department. You can see changes happening. And what do we need? We need new faces in those positions. We don't want the same recycled names that have been there for ages and generations. So thank you so much, Doctor. Is there any forum that bring women across the country into a conference, into annual conference or whatever meeting to discuss issues of women, political society, societal problem and so forth in South Sudan? I wouldn't say that. I know of women block in what and what and what and what and all this society is when and all these these are women in that organization with women issues. But is there any cross cutting a platform that bring women all together, politicians, civil society from rural areas in order to discuss this? Thank you for the question. Actually, we have not had a grouping that only discusses that as a topic, but we have had it as an agenda within the workshop framework. Because right now we are in the electoral phase. We are doing working on the constitution. So most of the workshops are based on that arena, but still we bring it in as an agenda within the meeting on how we can support each other as women. So there is no a workshop that has been really discussed on that. However, you and women is actually doing a lot in bringing us together the CSOs and also the women outside in the political arena. Thank you. So my letter is called now and get ready with your pen and pencil and on a paper to respond to the question. Hello, Adam, Brian. Hello. Hello. Hello, Adam, Brian. Hello. Hello, I think there is a problem on our technician will work on this. Hello. Hello, Adam, Brian. Oh, it's a problem. Now, we have a text message from Nui Kudu in Gung Mechear, Northern Barakazale said, "Our youth are two suffering across the country, no change from our leaders." My question is, is this how will the right of our citizen if there is no election to elect their leaders? I'm reading the question as written. This is from Nui Dukur. Then we have this one from somebody who calls himself GMM from Roombechear. He's saying, "Why is there an emphasis on persons with disabilities? Are they not inclusive as part of South Sudan citizenry? That is from GMM from Roombechear, let us see if calls." Hello, Adam, Brian. Hello, Adam, Brian. Yeah, you got a good morning. Good morning, my brother, from WOW. Yeah, this is me David Mago from WOW. Yeah, David, yeah, go ahead. Let me welcome the girls in this video. And I have two questions direct to Adriud and Martin. You know when there is an advert in NGOs that what is so called that you must be physically, emotionally and mentally fit. This one is not discrimination. Because if you are working on civil society, it means that you start from NGOs coming with the government. If these people are disability, they are not represented. Now, give you one day, write a petition to the MPs or to the parliament so that they discuss about these and use the bills first or not. This is number one. Number two, I would like to ask you know there are graduates from 2005 until today, the girls are doofing in the university. But still, those whom we know are now the ministers from 2005 until today. Is that if I belong to the old women or is it for all of you? Because now you are blaming men, while you are not even about yourself. You are not encouraging yourself so that you come up as women. And there are some women are even in civil society and are not in politics. So we just wait now, we should be blamed here. Thank you so much David Mago from WOW. I eat 35% only for all women. I did realize that this picture. Hello, I am Raya. Hello? Yeah, your name and your question, you are not audible enough. Okay, thank you so much. My name is Kole, Jim, India from 2000. Jim is from 2000 South country India? Yeah, Jim's India from 2000. Okay, go ahead. Hello, everyone. Thank you very much for joining us today. I would like to thank you for being with us today. 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Thank you very much for joining us today. Thank you very much for joining us today. Thank you very much for joining us today. Thank you very much for joining us today. Thank you very much for joining us today. Thank you very much for joining us today. Thank you very much for joining us today. Thank you very much for joining us today. Thank you very much for joining us today. Thank you very much for joining us today. Thank you very much for joining us today. Thank you very much for joining us today. Thank you very much for joining us today. Thank you very much for joining us today. Thank you very much for joining us today. Thank you very much for joining us today. Thank you very much for joining us today. Thank you very much for joining us today. Thank you very much for joining us today. Thank you very much for joining us today. Thank you very much for joining us today. Thank you very much for joining us today. Thank you very much for joining us today. 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Thank you very much for joining us today. Thank you very much for joining us today. Thank you very much for joining us today. Thank you very much for joining us today. Thank you very much for joining us today. Thank you very much for joining us today. Thank you very much for joining us today. Thank you very much for joining us today. Thank you very much for joining us today. Thank you very much for joining us today. Thank you very much for joining us today. Thank you very much for joining us today. Thank you very much for joining us today. Thank you very much for joining us today. Thank you very much for joining us today. Thank you very much for joining us today. Thank you very much for joining us today. Thank you very much for joining us today. Thank you very much for joining us today. Thank you very much for joining us today. Thank you very much for joining us today. Thank you very much for joining us today. Thank you very much for joining us today. Thank you very much for joining us today. Thank you very much for joining us today. Thank you very much for joining us today. Thank you very much for joining us today. Thank you very much for joining us today. Thank you very much for joining us today. Thank you very much for joining us today. Thank you very much for joining us today. Thank you very much for joining us today. Thank you very much for joining us today. Thank you very much for joining us today. Thank you very much for joining us today. Thank you very much for joining us today. Thank you very much for joining us today. Thank you very much for joining us today. Thank you very much for joining us today. Thank you very much for joining us today. Thank you very much for joining us today. Thank you very much for joining us today. Thank you very much for joining us today. Thank you very much for joining us today. Thank you very much for joining us today. Thank you very much for joining us today. Thank you very much for joining us today. Thank you very much for joining us today. Thank you very much for joining us today. Thank you very much for joining us today. Thank you very much for joining us today. Thank you very much for joining us today. Thank you very much for joining us today. Thank you very much for joining us today. Thank you very much for joining us today. Thank you very much for joining us today. Thank you very much for joining us today. Thank you very much for joining us today. Thank you very much for joining us today. Thank you very much for joining us today. Thank you very much for joining us today. Thank you very much for joining us today. Thank you very much for joining us today. Thank you very much for joining us today. Thank you very much for joining us today. Thank you very much for joining us today. Thank you very much for joining us today. Thank you very much for joining us today. Thank you very much for joining us today. Thank you very much for joining us today. Thank you very much for joining us today. Thank you very much for joining us today. Thank you very much for joining us today. Thank you very much for joining us today. Thank you very much for joining us today. Thank you very much for joining us today. Thank you very much for joining us today. Thank you very much for joining us today. Thank you very much for joining us today. Thank you very much for joining us today. Thank you very much for joining us today. Thank you very much for joining us today. I want to give you 30 minutes. Yes. No, not 30 minutes. 30 seconds bonus. Yes. To say a message to parents who are with children with disabilities. Yes, my appeal to parents, to parents who have children with disabilities, that everything is possible for every child with disability. If you only give them that opportunity, I can still repeat. The one who is talking to you is a person who is not seeing completely but is successful. This is because of the opportunity given to me. Now to our government, to our president, please let us support our national organizations. Let us support the organizations of persons with disability by providing them with logistic support. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. Thank you so much, Mandela. Thank you again, Radio Miraya, for hosting us in this very interesting conversation on constitutional making process. My message basically will go to young people and women. You know, I like to say, the politics is shaped by numbers. It figures that determine what becomes a political decision. If you look around the world, the most, you know, the biggest demographics rotate around young people and women. Generally speaking, women constitute the vast majority of any population in the world. So they can decide during elections that we are not voting for men. If they don't take us into account and when they do so, then men won't get into positions of power. So women should be able to capitalize on that ability. But also secondly, as young people, including women, because there are also women that are young. As youth, within these particular spaces, we want to capitalize on numbers. The demographics we have, they favor young people. We have over 70 percent of youth in South Sudan. So if elections say a coming in December, then youth should begin not engaging politics and dictate to politicians what they want to be done. Otherwise, if they don't, if the politicians do not give a listening here to youth, then we want vote for them during elections. Thank you. So let us capitalize on that. Thank you, Adut, your last word, your callers to our listeners. Okay. Thank you so much, Dr. Pejaj, for this great opportunity. I would like to appreciate Radio Mira for this opportunity to be here. I also appreciate the listeners. And I would say that we need to have a meaningful participation of the underrepresented groups. That is the youth, the people living with disabilities and the women. So how do we, will we do this as a country? First and foremost, we need to have education and awareness. The second is we have to have a consultation and outreach. We have to have the representation and inclusivity. The capacity building comes in as a bonus. And we have to have accessible participation mechanisms whereby we are not only going to be in Juba, but also reach out to the cultural people. And then we also have to recognize diversity. As women, we should implement each other, complement each other, sorry, not compete. Okay. Yes. And then we have to also have support networks and partnerships. Thank you. Thank you so much, Adut. Martin, in one second, in one minute, please. Okay. Thank you. In summary, I'm urging everybody in South Sudan, including particularly our government, that to build a stable country, we need these three aspects, diversity, equity and inclusion. If we take, if we take these three values together and cement them together and we reflect them in our constitution and laws, we will have a stable country because conflicts often come, conflicts often come because of allegations of exclusion of one community, by the community. These are all allegations, allegations that make people to boil in their hearts and causing conflict. And therefore, we want these laws to be met with reflection to that. And when we are making our laws, we should think of tomorrow. Let me not make a law because I think that I'm not, I'm a good person also, like that. What about your children? What about the next generation? Thank you so much. Yeah. I have an announcement, just one second. No, no, no, no. Running out of time. Thank you so much for all our listeners and to guests in the studio. You have been listening to "Raddy Mariah Roundtable" with me, Yaj Garan. And we had in the discussion, Bill James. We have Martin Corrie. We have a good Christine. And we have Mandel Isaac Station for the next session of the next program. Thank you very much. Thank you. One-on-one FM, "Raddy Mariah", powered by the people. Uniting the nation. Your preferred station.