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Mark Bederow talks Bombshell News in Karen Read Saga | 7.8.24 - The Grace Curley Show Hour 2
Today's podcast is brought to you by Howie's new book Paperboy. To order today, go to HowieCarShow.com and click on store. Live from the Aviva Tretria Studio, it's the Grace Curly Show. We've got to bring in a new voice, a young voice, a rising voice, Grace Curly. You can read Grace's work in the Boston Herald and the spectator. Well, you don't want too much grace. Here's the millennial with the mic. Grace Curly. Grace Curly. Grace Curly. Let's bring in the host of the Grace Curly Show, a Grace Curly. You either have grace or you don't. Especially Grace, Grace stand up. Grace Curly. Welcome back everyone to the Grace Curly Show. Mark Betterow is a New York City criminal defense attorney. He previously served as a Manhattan assistant district attorney. He has been an unbelievable resource for us when it comes to all things Karen read. And today I'm sure will be no different. There's been a big update on the Karen read trial. Obviously last time I checked in with you, the jurors hadn't even come to a decision. Then while I was off on vacation, not to make it about me, but I was off that week. And Taylor was filling in and they came back and said we are hopelessly deadlocked. There's no way we're going to come to a decision on this. And so it was a hung jury. And now today it turns out some of those jurors were reaching out to Karen Reads lawyers, her defense attorneys, and we have new bombshells to report. I think it's a perfect day to bring on Mark because he can break this down for us. It's pretty fresh news. And so I'm still trying to wrap my head around it. Attorney Mark Betterow, give us the rundown of what happened here. What are these jurors claiming was occurring behind the scenes that we were not filled in on as far as their decisions on these three charges? Well, first of all, this is virtually unprecedented to have three jurors. I mean, you're talking 25% of the jury separately and apart from each other, reach out within a matter of days to defense attorneys after they finally were looking at some of the news in the case to report to them that there could be a perceived miscarriage of justice going on. So in essence, when the verdict, the lack of verdict was coming out last week, and the jury indicated that it was hung and the judge let them go, many people, myself included in real time watching this, were asking, well, are they hung on one count, two counts, three counts? How do we know? And there's been no discussion because it's entirely appropriate. Sometimes for juries to say, I will acquit on this count, but we can't reach a verdict on this count and any acquitted or convicted as it may be in any case. Those counts are resolved and not to be tried again in the event of a retrial. You would be tried on the hung counts. And what you have here is something that is just, again, unheard of. You have three jurors coming forward and saying we acquitted on certain counts, including the most important one, the murder count. And that's not what we're reading was basically determined. So this is unbelievable. And you have sworn affidavits from two of Karen Reid's trial lawyers. These statements made under oath subject to perjury type offenses, if they're not telling the truth, which is, of course, code for, of course, they are in these circumstances alleging that they, in the case of Alan Jackson, was contacted directly by a juror. And in the case of David Yannetti through intermediaries of people who knew other jurors, all saying that we acquitted her on 12 to nothing on the murder count. And so they are hired. Another attorney, which makes perfect sense because it's very likely in the near future that Alan Jackson and David Yannetti will have to testify about this. It's very possible. The jurors may have to testify about this situation. And if this case is not crazy enough, depending on where this goes, it's entirely possible in light of the judge's private discussion with the jurors after the hung jury was announced that she may have to testify in this, which, of course, would almost certainly lead to her not being the judge in the event of a retrial on whatever charges are left standing if this is all going to happen. So this is crazy. And it's amazing that it's made the second most interesting story of the day about a corrupt state trooper who's about to, you know, go further down the process of ultimately being terminated. And that's hardly even news because of this. Yeah, I was going to ask you, Mark, do you think that because obviously we just played before we brought you on, we played the note that Judge Canoni read from the jurors where the four person had explained that this is, you know, this comes down to a difference of, I don't even, I can't remember the word he used, but in other words, it's fundamental differences. It's not something where we don't understand the facts of the case. We're just never going to come to an agreement on this. Do you think that when they talk to Judge Canoni in private, she did say, I want to speak to the jurors, that they were laid this information to her and she just didn't go any further with it or just figured, I'm not going to say anything? Or do you think this was a real miscommunication and kind of a fumbling of the ball by the jurors to not make it clear? Because based off that note that she read, if I'm sitting there as the judge and that's all the information I have, I don't think that they have come to a unanimous agreement on two of the counts. I would think that they just couldn't come to any sort of agreement. So what happened here? Was it that they didn't explain it properly? Or did she know something and not tell people? Well, number one, I'm not going to blame the jury because this whole process is convoluted. The jury instructions were convoluted. The charges were convoluted. The jury sheet, if you recall, the verdict sheet was kind of a mess. But ultimately, the person in charge for making a clear record and making sure that there is no miscarriage of justice in the courtroom and obviously getting retried after being acquitted for murder would be a quintessential miscarriage of justice. The person responsible to make sure that doesn't happen is the judge. That's why they wear the robe and have the gavel. So ultimately, they're in charge. Now, if it was mentioned, and I'm not suggesting it was, I don't know, but if it had been mentioned when the judge was talking privately to the jurors and they said, well, we meant to acquit on two of these three counts and the judge did nothing with that, which I am not suggesting she did, by the way, but if that were the case, that's really problematic and certainly makes her a witness when the jurors testified. But on the other hand, if when they were talking about whatever they're talking about and none of the jurors did mention this, then if you're the da and there's going to be an evidentiary hearing at some point on this, that arguably becomes important evidence for them that this is not accurate, that the jurors have regret, which is what they're going to argue anyway, and you would want the judge, if you're the da, to be a witness as well, because if the judge says, look, nobody said anything, they indicated they were hung on all three counts, that's potentially powerful evidence for them. Either way, it's hard to envision a scenario where the judge is not a witness, and if she is a witness, how does she sit over a possible second trial? I don't see it. So this is just a mess, but there's all kinds of logistics that have to happen here, too. The defense is asking for permission now to speak to the jurors, gather affidavits. There's reference to a text chain amongst all the jurors talking about this stuff. God knows what's contained in there. What does any of this say? So the defense wants to start a full-fledged process where they get an evidentiary hearing where the jurors testify, potentially the judge, Jackson and Unity. This is just a case that's been crazy, and people have had suspicions about, just went to a whole 'nother level of crazy and suspicious. Yeah, so the top charge that Reid was facing was second-degree murder. What was the charge that they could not come to a conclusion on, or they could not reach a unanimous verdict on? The second count, which is the manslaughter count, and then according to the filings today, based upon what a few of the jurors are saying anyway, they apparently acquitted on the leaving the scene of an accident causing injury or death count as well. So apparently the top count is supposed to be gone, and the bottom count is supposed to be gone, and if the defense is correct, then it just becomes a manslaughter trial, which is a huge difference. I mean, murder is murder. That has the most severe kind of sentencing that you can imagine where that would not be the case if it's just a manslaughter trial. Now, something you touched on right away at Mark Betterow, but I just want you to reiterate this for people who are just tuning in to speaking with attorney Mark Betterow. If the judge, and again, we don't know all the details here, we don't know what happened, so I'm not accusing anyone of anything, but if she knew-- No, I'm not suggesting she did anything wrong. Right. We don't know. But if she knew, hypothetically, that these jurors had two verdicts that they were unanimous on and one that they were hung up on, you're saying that it would not be unprecedented for two of those counts to--for two of those verdicts to count and then to kind of circle back on the last one or rehash the third one they couldn't come to conclusion on. It wouldn't be out of bounds for a judge to say, all right, well, which two do you have and will come back with those? Well, I think if this came up in a casual conversation with the--after the hung jury was announced, no, there's nothing the judge can literally do at that point other than she would be obligated to notify the parties and say, I want to report this is what just happened and I'll hear from you on what if any steps you think should happen. And of course, the defense would be jumping up and down right then and there saying, well, those are acquittals. Now the jury needs to be pulled. And if it's too late because they're dismissed, then we're going to have to go down this path of gathering evidence and having a hearing and file briefs and arguments about why we think, in essence, there were acquittals on those two counts. But I guess the concern would be in the hypothetical. If this came up in that private meeting and the judge didn't alert the parties of that, that would be profoundly disturbing. I mean, as an officer of the court, as the administrator of justice, if they're telling you, we were confused and made a mistake. It doesn't mean that, legally speaking, that the results would have to change because, again, nobody wants to just have jurors say, I want to make a do over here. The law doesn't favor that. But if right after the fact they're saying, no, this is a miscommunication to the point where a woman who we acquitted of murder is not being acquitted and could be retried and convicted and sentenced to life in prison for a charge, we already unanimously found her not guilty. I mean, nobody with a brain would say that's appropriate. So at a minimum, the proper thing to do would have been to alert the parties and let them make the motions that they're going to make. On the other hand, if nothing was said from the DA's perspective, again, that may be favorable to how they perceive this. And they may want to say if the jury was so concerned, why didn't they mention anything to the judge? But the reality is you don't know what they talked about or if there was any reason. For all you know, the conversation between the judge and the jurors was just, I know you worked hard at this. I know this was an emotional experience. You were on behalf of this. Right. It may have had nothing to do and probably had nothing to do. I mean, the judge is not going to grill them about their deliberations. As the representative of the court system, she's going to thank them for, this is not a normal trial. Nobody's a juror for two months in the usual case. And thank you so much. You worked so hard. And, you know, I really appreciate the attention and effort you gave. And that's probably all that happened. There's no reason to believe that the judge in that meeting did anything wrong. The problem or the criticism that I would and others would say is when they kept saying that we are hopelessly deadlocked, the obvious question is, well, is that across the board or are you able to do anything on anything? Because if there is a verdict on one count, the defendant is entitled to that period, full stop. That's so that's really the takeaway here. If there is a verdict and it seems like based on what we're seeing from these text messages from the outreach from these jurors, they had a verdict on two counts and that Karen Reed is entitled to that attorney. Mark better. We're running out of time very quickly here. If you had to make a prediction as to what happens next, I know there is a myriad of possibilities of what could occur. What's your best guess? Gathering more evidence, getting permission to do that. Probably affidavit from jurors and if they on their own support, what's alleged by the attorneys at some point, I don't see how you're going to have any other choice other than to have some kind of evidentiary hearing where jurors are going to testify. Lawyers are going to testify and potentially the judge. The circus continues. Thank you. Attorney Mark better. Oh, I really appreciate it. You always make time for the grace curly show and that is so, so appreciated by everyone here. We'll talk to you soon and we will be right back with more. The grace curly show will be right back. This is the grace curly show. All right, Mr. Forman, I am in receipt of your note. Judge Canoni, despite our rigorous efforts, we continue to find ourselves at an impasse. Our perspectives on the evidence are starkly divided. Some members of the jury firmly believe that the evidence surpasses the burden of proof, establishing the elements of the charges beyond a reasonable doubt. Conversely, others find the evidence fails to meet this standard and does not sufficiently establish the necessary elements of the charges. The deep division is not due to a lack of effort or diligence, but rather a sincere adherence to our individual principles and moral convictions. To continue to deliberate would be futile and only serve to force us to compromise these deeply held beliefs. I'm not going to do that to you folks. Your service is complete. I'm declaring a mistrial in this case. I'll be in to see you privately in a few minutes. So thank you so much for your service. All right. Good, please. Yeah, and I know we're not, you know, we had Mark better on and he's not in the business of blaming people and he's a lawyer and he's going to wait for all the facts, but that's not my job. I don't have to do that. No, you don't. And I'm going to say I put this one, I put a little bit of the, the onus here on the jurors. If that, yeah, you should have made it more clear, like, Hey, can we talk to you for a sec? We got to, we're held up on the third. Is there any, and maybe they did. And if that's the case, I'll take back my blame. But right now, when it comes to the blame game, I am putting a little bit on the jurors here because the way you phrase that note did not tell me. What was really going on behind the scenes? But maybe there was a header at the top that said uncharged three or charged to whatever it was, unsubsequent charge one. And that's where, I don't know. I'm just throwing stuff out here, but I think this falls on the judge. Well, if ifs and buts were candies and nuts. Oh my goodness. You know what I'm saying here. We could play this game all day. We'll find out more as time goes on. I just, I'm, I'm seeing now the words double jeopardy being tossed around and how, and I think the key part for Mark Beterow out of everything he said was that if they had reached a verdict on any of those counts on any of those charges, then Karen Reed was entitled to those verdicts. Absolutely. And that to me is the headline here. That is the big flashing part of this story. But now we have to have an investigation into the trial, which was based on an investigation that's currently under investigation by the investigators, the state police and the federal investigators, the FBI. That, that, and that was a great question from two oh seven is the FBI still investigating the Karen Reed case. If so, how will that affect a possible read trial? I can't even think about a retrial right now. My little heart can't take no more. This is so, there, there are so many layers to this and it is absolutely insane. Eight four, four, five hundred, forty two, forty two, Nick, everybody else who's online stay right there. We're going to get right back to you when we return. So just hang tight because I don't have enough time here, but when we return, we're doing the poll question. We're talking more about Karen Reed and I want to get into, I've been dying to talk about this all week. Usually with my parents, if they try to talk politics when I'm on vacation, I say, hey, I'm off the clock. But this week, by the end of my vacation, I was saying, I got to talk about the media. And they're, they're sudden epiphany that Joe Biden has lost his marbles. Like every other story that's ever mattered, they're four years too late. We'll get to it. We'll take your calls. Don't go anywhere. I was tired and I needed to think about it. Live from the Aviva Thratria studio. Yeah. All right. I think this has been an extraordinary jury. I've never seen a note like this. I'm reporting to be at an impasse. I do find that they're now with the additional time that they went out without coming back Friday, saying that they were deadlocked is doing thorough deliberation. So I'm going to give two re-radery guests. So are they ready to come in, Jody? That was Judge Canoni and that was last week. Now we find out that on two of the three charges, at least some jurors were telling Alan Jackson and David Yannetti, Karen Reed's lawyers, that they did come to a verdict. And that verdict was unanimous on two of the charges and it was not guilty. Now that is a big, big update on what actually went down. I'm sure we'll be finding out more as time goes on. We were able to talk to Mark Baderow. And if you missed that, we'll have the podcast posted. You can check that out. He's a really great resource. He's a wealth of knowledge about all these things. And the key word that he keeps saying when he comes on this show is unprecedented. He keeps saying I've never seen anything like this. Guaranteed, he's a lawyer in New York and I think we might be out doing the empire state when it comes to craziness in the legal system. But still, there's a lot of shock when you listen to Mark Baderow breaking down this story. I will take your calls on it and we are going to talk about Joe Biden. But first, Eastern security is having their annual warehouse sales starting July 11th through July 14th, featuring the largest savings of the year. Mention Howie and receive an additional 5% off those savings. Visit their site at easternsecuritysafe.com. That's easternsecuritysafe.com. Taylor Cormier, what is the poll question and what are the results thus far? Today's poll question, which you can vote in at gracecurlyshow.com, is when will Joe Biden drop out of the race? What we intended to talk about today within the week, within the month, or never, he's going to be the candidate. I'm going to say never. And if you had asked me last week, I probably would have said that it would be within the month. But I think what changed it for me and what really, really I got such a kick out of when I was on vacation. Somebody turned to me. I can't even remember who it was. And said, did you hear that hunters in the meetings now at the White House? And that's when I really thought we crossed the Rubicon with these people. They've gone full crazy on us. They're not even trying to hide it now. I was reading a story about how Hunter Biden is in the East Room. And he's like, you know, pressing the flash with people. Oh, nice to see you networking, doing all this stuff. An average person with the background that Hunter Biden has would be embarrassed to show their face at CVS. Would be embarrassed to be out in public period. This is how shameless these people are. They are craving. They are desperate for power. They are greedy as can be. He is so the lack of self-awareness. And that might not even be the way to describe it because I think they're aware of how awful they are. They just don't care. So he's now networking with people. He's acting like he's Joe Biden's handler. He's his assistant. He's his right-hand man. I mean, he does have the highest IQ of anyone Joe knows. But Hunter Biden is now giving him like tips, giving him a rundown of what he should do. Hunter Biden is in charge of saving this sinking ship. So no, I don't think Joe's going anywhere between-- Again, I'm here for two reasons, pal. I have come here to chew bubble gum and kick ass. I'm all out of bubble. Between Jill and Hunter, the family is-- they're in it to win it. Or at least they're in it to stay in it. They're not going anywhere. So that's my goal. ♪ And I am telling you ♪ ♪ I'm not going ♪ 71% say never. He is going to be the candidate. 24% say it'll be within the month. 5% say within the week. I love all these palace intrigue pieces that are coming out. You know how desperate I've been, Taylor, for the White House behind the scenes stories over the last four years? I was like, the amount of stories we got about Trump every other day. I was like, anonymous, wrote a piece for the Washington Post. The Trump has a button for Diet Coke on his desk. And I was just thinking to myself, there must be so much going on behind the curtain that they're not telling us about. If what we're seeing in public is as bad as it is, if we're seeing this man have mental breakdowns almost daily when he's in public for five minutes, I can't imagine what's going on behind closed doors with the German shepherds running around biting everyone. You know, he's stumbling around, pulling tails, looking for ice cream, sniffing people. I wanted so badly to hear about these stories, but you know what? Now that I got them four years later and all these people turned on a dime, I don't want them anymore. They mean nothing to me because all of these people in the media are such losers. And now they're going, oh hell, half no fury, like a press corps deceived, deceived, deceived. If you were deceived by Joe Biden, first of all, he wasn't trying to deceive anyone. He's been very open about, you know, my brain's gone. That's what he told a group of governors this week. I'm not worried about me. I'm a little worried about my brain though. He has been very transparent, so transparent. He's shaking hands with ghosts up on stage. He's not going to hide this from anyone. If you have been deceived into thinking that this is a Socratic statesman who should be running the country, that is admitting such gross stupidity. I cannot even put it into words. And all of these people, Kelly O'Donnell, I saw her in the front row asking KJP, you know, how can we, how do we know what's going, does he have dementia? They're all asking these questions now. I wanted to say to Kelly O'Donnell, you fraud. You were the same reporter who in Biden fell asleep at some summit that he went to. There's so many summits, you know, they take their private planes to go talk about saving the earth. You were the same reporter who got on television. This is how embarrassing it is. Got on television and explained that he did fall asleep, but he was really tired. It's a very long flight, you know. And now all of these people want to lecture us about how behind the scenes they say they have to give him cards that explain how to enter and exit rooms properly. And be happy Independence Day. And by the way, sometimes he doesn't remember his friend's names. I'm like, go tell someone who cares. I already knew this. I already knew this. And guess what? I'm not, I'm not a brainiac. I'm not, you know, I don't have my finger on the pulse all the time. I just have two eyeballs. That's all it takes. And the reason I think I get so fed up with the media more so than Joe Biden at this point is because he's a politician. And politicians are going to lie. Politicians are going to pretend that they're doing a great job, even when they're not. That is something you've come to expect with these politicians. But the media, and I'll sound old school here, their purpose is to find out information for the public and present that information to people. To find out the truth, to hold these institutions accountable, to hold these powerful people accountable. And what they've done over the last 10 years is they've made up story after story after story about Donald Trump, who did nothing wrong. And when it came to Joe Biden, and there was so many stories right for the taking, they completely ignored it. They not only tried to convince you, it wasn't enough for them just to not admit that he was in cognitive decline. That wasn't enough for them. They had to make it even worse by saying that he's not only not in cognitive decline, he's brilliant. He's brilliant. You wouldn't believe it. Give him an equation. He can't do it in public. But if he's behind the scenes, if he's got the whiteboard behind the scenes, oh my God, you should see him do long division. It's like nothing you've ever seen. That's how dumb they think people are. They don't just think you're so dumb that they can say, no, no, no, nothing's wrong, everything's fine, you know, he's got clothes on, he's doing good. He put his pants on today. That's not how dumb they think you are. That would be one level of dumb. They're at the next level where it's like, he's smarter than you are. He's so smart. Check him out. He's running circles around you, and everything's wonderful. Everything's so great right now in this country. Joe Biden called in to Mika and Joe today, and it was so sad. Like he's calling in and they're trying their best to kind of back him up. What I think we need to do though, Taylor, is we need to keep track now. We got to have two lists. I got to have a list of the Democrats, and I guess they're set to meet today to talk about this. I got to have a list of the Democrats who are still the dead enders, who are still supporting Joe Biden. And I'll admit, most of the heavy hitters are still on Joe Biden's side. But then I have to have a list of the turn codes. I've got to have the names of the people who are starting to soften the soil and, you know, let people in on the idea that maybe things aren't looking good. Because for a long time, we had maybe Ro Khanna. You had a few Democrats who were semi sane, or at least sane for a Democrat who were concerned that Biden's mental fitness. But that list is growing. And the only person I think who can talk him out of it is going to be Dr. B. Edith Wilson. I don't think she's got any intentions of trying to talk him off this ledge. I think she wants it just more than he does. She's the one who's pushing him forward. Nick, you're up next on the Grace Curly show. Go ahead, Nick. Yeah, so it looks like they're looking for the by default. Yes, by manslaughter. Well, here we go. Four outstanding situations here that scream with laughter at all of that. McCabe in the state cell expert, self-worth, a purgerest. Why? Because the better cell phone expert proved she did text up a hypothermia lookup. Okay? Two. Drive-bys by the Paul guy. Two. One. No body. There may be a body underneath, but no, that's not what he said. It's just a four-edge. Number three. Oh, Keith's phone. Well, he's dying, apparently making vertical movements, right, with his cell phone, with the phone, with the health phone data. Okay? And finally, the dying crop, this observation of the tail light intact with a crack and a small piece missing. If these people that are on the jury cannot understand that, to get shadow of a doubt, this is a total eclipse of the sun. Who do they think they're kidding? Yeah. And I'm glad you brought up the tail light, because again, everyone has different parts of this case that they can't explain away, but Nick is right. There's more than just one. There are so many parts of this case that don't make sense to me. Sometimes I focus on the fact that they re-home the dog after seven years. That doesn't sit, right? I'm not a dog person, but I can't imagine having a pet for seven years and then saying, you know, it's not working anymore. Maybe if there was a really bad incident that you couldn't, you know, if your dog bit someone and it was really bad and you had to put it down or you had to give it to somebody, but do we know if there was one? Like, I know the dog had some, you know, some, some experience biting people. There are at least two biting incidents. But what was it? What was the impetus for the final decision to re-home the dog? Helping kill a Boston police officer. That's what I'm saying. That could be part of the situation. You just brought up the tail light, the Daitan police officer, the only, the only cop really in this whole situation who didn't have any skin in the game, who didn't seem to know anybody or, you know, be part of this incestuous canton circle. He said that the tail light was cracked, but it wasn't cracked into a million little pieces and scattered about the lawn. And that's one situation that I can't get over. As you just mentioned, the house longed to die in cold. That's hard to explain away. And I think that there's this desire from Morrissey and other people in the Commonwealth to make this seem like this was all concocted by Turtle Boyer. You know, these were conspiracy theories that were inflamed by the online people following the story. But a lot of this stuff has nothing to do with that. A lot of this, a lot of this evidence that was presented, a lot of the third party culprit defense had nothing to do with theories. It was just the facts of the case that did not align with the narrative the Commonwealth was pushing. Rocco, you're up next on the Grace Curly show. What's going on, Rocco? Yeah, hi, Grace. You know, I know you're bouncing between both stories. So I just want to, my comment about the Biden, the fact that he's being so stubborn. I think one of the reasons that probably he's probably being so stubborn is he wants to give his son an immunity and he's already can do it on one, but he hasn't even been convicted on the second one. And my second thought is that if he keeps fighting the Democratic Party and they really want him out of there, would any of us be very surprised if he happens to have like not pass away in his sleep or whatever, you know, because if he keeps fighting them and fighting them and if they see that there's no way he's going to win, winning is more important to them than Biden. Yeah. And Rocco, just to comment on that last part, and then when we come back from the break, I'll talk a little bit more about your original point. But the last part, I worry about the safety of both candidates. I really do. I just think the political times that were in so polarized, it's so intense. And so I'm always praying and I know this is going to sound like, Oh, yeah, sure, you are. You're a big hypocrite. I truly am always praying for the safety of both of these men because things have gone so out of control and there's plenty of reasons to be nervous. So I hope nothing happens to either of them as far as the first point goes, there were so many excuses that Joe Biden gave as to why the debate didn't go in his favor. And I want to talk about that when we come back because I don't think that the reason Joe Biden is staying in this is because of Hunter. I think a lot of it comes down to his own ego. Keep in mind, this was a guy who tried to run and tried to run and the plagiarism scandal. And he never and he was very bitter that Barack Obama was president. He was VP. He always felt like it should have been him. And now he's got it and it's going to take a lot to claw it away from him. We'll talk more about that when we return. Thank you for the call. We'll be right back. You're listening to the Grace Curly show. This is the Grace Curly show. I want to make sure I was right that the average voter out there still wanted Joe Biden and I'm confident they do. Check the polls. Jack. What I love about Joe is that anything that you tell him that doesn't make him happy because he wants to talk about happy things, man. He just rejects. I reject that. Or that's not true. You're reading the wrong polls. It must be nice. You know, it's a level of this is what the kids say, delulu. He's a delulu man. He's just completely delulu. He can say whatever he wants. And if you tell him something, it doesn't matter if it's a fact, Jack. He can just say, no, I don't like that. That doesn't make me happy. I'm going to start doing that when people call up and argue with me about things. I'm just going to say, I reject that drop, hang up on the caller because if Joe Biden can do it, why not? But when we come back, we have tons of Joe Biden sound that we're going to get to you. I also want to talk a little bit about the NEA president, Becky Pringle. I was talking with Corey D'Angelo's today about this. This is pretty amazing. She gave a speech about charter schools and fighting for public school resources and bragging about how wonderful public schools are. And we will play it. And I'll give you some facts on the public schools in the United States of America. But more so about Joe Biden, and this is what I want to discuss in the last hour, he's not only blaming my favorite excuse was I didn't have enough time to decompress before the debate. He took the full week. He took the full week for an hour and a half, an hour and a half debate during a campaign. He took the entire week off. And that, according to Joe, was not enough time. He was still tired from going around the world. He took a full week off. But I think the excuse that's might be even better is that he says the elites are coming after him. What are you? Are you not part of the elites? Didn't he have a ballroom in his house? Does he really think that anyone buys that he's like Scranton Joe, showing up with the hogies, trying to get by, poor man in Congress? That ship has sailed, my friend. We'll talk about all the excuses when we return. [MUSIC PLAYING]