The Church Answers Podcast

Why We Must Rethink the Smaller Church, Part 2: The New Structure

While most people would consider a church with an average worship attendance of 50 to be small, those churches are larger than 50% of churches in America. In this three-part series, Thom and Jess discuss the implications of these developments. In this second of three podcasts, they discuss how we should consider structuring smaller churches today.

Duration:: 12m
Broadcast on:: 02 Jul 2024
Audio Format:: mp3

Welcome to the Church Answers Podcast, presented by Chaney & Associates. Chaney & Associates are the accounting firm for the church. Now get ready for fast-paced insights on key issues affecting the local church today. We release three episodes each week, so make sure you've seen or heard them all. And now, here is the CEO of Church Answers, Tom Rayner. - This is the Church Answers Podcast. I'm Tom Rayner, I'm joined by Jess Rayner. Jess, one of the common questions, a category of questions we get at Church Answers is, "Where can I find this resource?" And I was looking at someone, I was trying to remember what one of the questions was in Church Answers Central, which is our 1,800 plus pastors and other church leaders that gather every day digitally, virtually. But somebody was looking for something, I can't remember what it was. And I was thinking, "No, what's a good source on that?" And it just hit me, but before I could post it, Matt posted it, just download the Everything Church Resource directory. It has all, it's this complete catalog with links with all that you need of almost every category you can think of. And if you find something you haven't thought, I've let us know and we'll add it to it. It's all free. Look, check it out in that particular link that is in this podcast. Well, let's get to the topic. Before we get to the topic, let me, without any hesitation, reservation, thank Chaney and Associates. It's just, it's unbelievable that an organization like Chaney can do so much for a church. And one of the things that we're talking about is structures and smaller churches. And I think smaller churches need to start giving others the responsibility outside the church and that trying to do it all of themselves. You may have a well-intending treasure or bookkeeper or somebody like that, but it's a good possibility in today's complex tax business world. They don't understand everything. And Pastor, I don't want you to go to jail. Maybe, okay, maybe that's not gonna happen, but I don't want things to mess up. So it's worth every investment dollar to go to Chaney and Associates. They're called the accounting firm for the church. And here's what that means, folks. That means they get churches. There are a lot of accounting firms out there and there are a lot of places that understand churches like church answers. This is the merger though of those that understand churches and those that do finance. So you focus on ministry. Let them focus on the finances for your church. You can see them in the show notes. That's chaneyassociates.com. They are the accounting firm for the church. So we started a conversation in the last episode, Jess, where we're talking about the new reality, the new paradigm, the new norm of the smaller church. And we talked about today, conservatively, 50% of churches are smaller than 50. I think it's more than that. But again, I'm just gonna rest on the data that we know that we have. So you got 50% large than that. Now, what does that mean for structure? Well, we gave one example right there. You can outsource a lot of things. If I recall correctly, the church at Springfield, Springfield, the church at Spring Hill, the church at Spring Hill does the bookkeeping internally, but you have an external system that you use, I won't get a promotion to that. And so you still are doing part of it with a software that you have. So you're not trying to do everything with a ledger and pencil. Yeah, yeah. We use a, we talk about structures, talk about systems of a church. From day one when we started, and I'm in my living room when the church started, we started utilizing structures that were outside the church. Could I have opened up finances as an easy one to use? Could I have started a checkbook and done it by hand and balance it? Yeah, we could have. But I intentionally created structures that would grow with the church. And so there's this idea of when you feel like you're smaller, it's like, it feels easier to do things yourself to do it internally, but you're not really setting yourself up for the future. There has to, you have to begin to think differently in terms of how your structure as a church to think about what the future could be as you grow. So yeah, structures is a huge, huge, huge thing for churches, smaller churches to begin to think about. Personnel, all right, common question at church answers. All right, we got the pastor, who's the next hire? Is it worship? Is it education? Is it children? Is it students? And the mindset is this, we get a full-time person in each step along the way. We may have to go part-time some of the time, but we're headed toward a goal of getting this. We will have succeeded if we have five or six full-time staff. That's kind of the way churches used to view it. And church answers tell us the order to get them. We don't answer the question that way anymore, because quite frankly, the structure of how staff are done is different. Church of Spring Hill is not a small church, but you are the only full-time employee of the church. And you have a lot of part-timers as well. - Yeah, I think I have six, seven. I have to do the quick math part-time. All in varying hours, some are five hours a week, some are 15. So when you collectively put it together, that is, it's a different kind of structure. Potentially, I could come together and do one staff member, but you got to talk about what are people's expertise? What are people's passions? What are they talented about? And so to find one person who is passionate and equipped in six different areas of the church, really is gonna be a difficult hire. They're out there, but very, very difficult. Very rarely you can have someone who can do kids ministry, worship ministry, student ministry, and your simulation ministry. Just to name a few. It's a unicorn. They might be out there, but you have to begin to think about how do you structure your church? Even as a smaller church, the ability to hire someone to do five hours a week in a part-time. Years ago, I forgot the name of the book, but this isn't an idea of mine. I read about the $25 a week volunteer. It's that idea of, it's a paid volunteer. I know that sounds really weird, but it was someone who worked in that volunteer mindset, but you added a little bit different level of accountability by paying them $25 a week. The output increased dramatically. Smaller churches. You're talking about 50% of churches are 50 and less right now. There are ways you can begin to utilize and think outside the box. What new churches often do is they're thinking towards the future. Churches who are established that maybe have seen a decline, you're trying to get back to where they were. Two completely different mindsets that are both focused on what can the future be. The problem is when you're looking backwards for your systems and your structure, you're not really leading your church towards the future. And so you need to begin to rethink where your resources, what are you doing, what things can you structure as a small church to help you grow? So financial systems, church management software, those things, staffing, that's another one. There's a lot of these things that you can structure your church, that you have the ability to do right now. You could hire a $25 a week volunteer, most likely in your church. If you really, really got down to it for a key ministry area. And it's like, well, which one do I do? Well, I think there's a lot of contextualization that goes along with it. You gotta understand your demographics, you know? I'm a heavy family in my area. Kids ministry was my first hire when we were starting the church. Worship was second. We're in Nashville, okay? There's an expectation with music, with worship. There's a level, that was my third. - And usually a good supply of people available. - Supply of musicians, not necessarily worship leaders. - Actually worship leaders. - Yes, those are harder to find even in Nashville. But so it's just that mindset shift. So structures is one, systems is one, hiring, that's the second one. - Do you have any memory of my church in St. Petersburg, Isaiah? - Very little. But yes, the story I know about you as you discover sin during those periods when you stole the water slide, but that's another story for itself. - Thanks for reminding me of my first foolishness sin, I appreciate that. - I was trying to just think about on those days recently, Jess. And I was still, I was not in a future mindset, even though I thought it was very futuristic. This was the full-time staff when I arrived. Me, the pastor, way underpaid, a secretary, way overpaid at the time. You're wanting this big, she came later. And then a full-time custodian. Those were the three full to end. Who were the other people, people and other stuff and people doing volunteer work that maybe weren't the best in the world. So what could I do? I said, well, the first thing that we need to do is we need to focus on groups. I don't remember why I said that. So I hired a groups pastor by the name of Chuck Carter. And we called him Institute of Education back then, but it was basically a groups pastor. I said, what do I need next? I said, I need somebody in worship and evangelism. So I'm trying to find, can I, where can I hire two people? We didn't have the money. We took a risk hiring Chuck is barely the budget. But I went out and found another person, our staff at another position. And I went to the unchurched, I went to a physician who was married to one of our church members, but he was not a Christian. Okay. And I told him I wanted him to find a full-time position. He said, why should I do that? I don't even believe in Jesus. He said, 'cause you love your wife. And so he did. So he funded that position for one year. Here was the miracle. I found a minister of worship and evangelism that was good in both. That's a unicorn. That is, that is. Yeah. So again, like rethinking that. It's harder and harder to find that. And finding people who are more specialized that will give you a set amount of hours, you can begin to rethink how you operate as a smaller church, absolutely. - Well, and the thing about it is technology has meant that people who used to have full-time positions did a lot of administrative work that they don't have to do now. So one of the things that's happened in church staffing is we still think that position needs to be full-time, but it really does not need to be full-time. That's another story. We gotta rethink the smaller church. We gotta think about the structure. We're gonna take one more leap at this. And you've kind of already alluded to it in your conversation with Pastor for Small Churches. We're gonna talk about the new opportunities for small churches. When we come back in part three of this, which is already downloaded uploaded. Oh, he said uploaded and ready for you. Thank you as always for being a part of the Church Answers Podcast. Thank you, Chaining Associates, for being the accounting firm for the church. Hey, you the listener, you the watcher, the viewer at YouTube. Thank you, give us a subscription, give us a thumbs up. And for you who are listening on your podcasting app, give us a good rating and a good review. And get back to part three of why we must rethink the smaller church. We've got some good information in the short, pithy time that we have. We'll see you then. - You have been listening to the Church Answers Podcast presented by Chaining Associates. Chaining Associates are the accounting firm for the church. We need to focus on ministry. Chaining will focus on finances. Also, please subscribe and give a review to the Church Answers Podcast on YouTube and on your favorite podcasting app. (upbeat music) [MUSIC PLAYING]