(upbeat music) - Hey everybody, just gonna take a quick break from the show and tell you a little bit more about one of our favorite things ever, audible. - Oh, audible.com or that app. - The app is great in a mommy app, constantly listening to audible helps your imagination soar. Whether you listen to stories, motivation, expert advice, any genre really that you like, you can listen to and you can be inspired to imagine new worlds, new possibilities, even new ways of thinking. This can unlock a lot for you. Audible makes it easy to be inspired and entertained as part of your daily routine. You don't need to even set extra time aside. That's what's great. There's more to imagine when you listen. And I'll tell you something that has set both Jimmy and I's imagination soaring. And that is the Lewis and Clark journals. 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And Viator offers free cancellation and 24/7 customer service, so you always have support around the clock. Download the Viator app now to use code Viator10 for 10% off your first booking in the app. Regretless, do more with Viator. (upbeat music) - Hello, everybody, and welcome back to SmallTownMurder Express. - Yeah, and cho-choo! - Oh, yeah, indeed, Jimmy. Yeah, indeed. My name is James Petrigal, I'm here with my co-host. - I'm Jimmy Wissman. - Thank you so much for joining us today on another insane edition of SmallTownMurder Express. And we always say it's 10 pounds of murder in a two-pound bag, and wow, today, it's like at least 15 pounds of insanity, 'cause there's some, I can't even explain it all. We'll get to the episode in a second. First, before we do that though, definitely do yourself a favor. Head over to ShutUpAndGiveMeMurder.com and get your tickets for live shows. Next show is September the 20th, Minneapolis. The theater is amazing, it's the state theater. It's beautiful, it's way too nice for us. We're gonna be foul that place. So come out and check it out, and it'll be our biggest show ever if you guys saw it out. So we're very excited, go ahead and beat Chicago. The next night, we're in Milwaukee, only a few tickets left for that. So get 'em right now if you want 'em. Also, Austin, Boston, Oklahoma City, Kansas City, we added some more seats as well to that. So now there's seats available, and New York too. There's a few tickets left for that. So get all your tickets right now, shut up and give me murder.com. Then, if it's not enough for you, if you've had all of this and you've seen live shows, you listen to crime and sports or other podcasts. Also, your stupid opinions, which is hilarious, you listen all of those and you still are not satisfied. - You need more? - You need more. I got it, we have it. Got you covered. You just need to head over to patreon.com/crimeinsports and you can get so much more. - Oh yeah. - Hundreds of back episodes you've never heard before, bonus material, anybody $5 a month or above a cup of coffee. How many cups of coffee do you buy in a month? Skip one of them, get tons of content instead. New ones every other week, one crime and sports, one small town murder and you get it all. - You get it all. - This week, what you're gonna get for crime and sports, we're gonna talk about fireworks accidents 'cause it's Fourth of July, it's gonna come out. So it will be festive here, that's gonna be fun. And then for small town murder, we're gonna talk about the real tombstone. - Oh yeah. - We've all seen the movie tombstone, we're gonna talk about Wyatt Earp and Doc Holiday and the Cowboys and what really ended up happening 'cause they take some liberties in the movie. So we'll talk all about that. patreon.com/crimeinsports is where you get all of that. That said, oh also you get a shout out at the end of the week of the show. - Oh you bet, yeah. - So that's a big deal. - Yeah, there you go. Jamil mispronounced your name as a thank you. So that said, I think it's time everybody. - Hey. - Let's all do this, I don't care where you are right now. Like I said, we've said it before, are you in traffic? Heavy track, get out of the car. Who cares? That's no one's moving anyway. Stand right on the hood, spread your arms to the sky, take a deep breath, and let's all shout. ♪ Shut up and give me murder ♪ Let's do this everybody. Let's go on a trip, shall we? - Let's go. - Loading up the car, let's do it. Jimmy, we got quite a drive in ahead of us here. - Tell me why. - We're going to South Dakota, which is near nothing, that's the problem. It's no matter where you're coming from, it's far. And we're going to Lemon, South Dakota. - Like the fruit. - L-E-M-M-O-N, like the man, like Jack. - How do you? - Like Jack. - Yeah, so he seemed like the guy, like he watched "Grompy Old Men", and you go, "I want that to be my grandpa." - For sure. - You know what I mean? I wish that was my grandpa. - It's a nice, yeah. - Yeah, he's got a little fishing shack. That looks great. - Yeah, feels like if I pulled a home equity line and paid his tax credit for him, he would have adored me. - He'd be gold, absolute gold. Take your musky fish in all the time. So this is in northwestern South Dakota, and it's right north of the state, like north part of the state, it's right on the border of North Dakota. So it's the northernmost part of South Dakota. - Barely south. - Well, when I mean barely, it is three blocks from North Dakota. (laughs) - Yeah, that's close. - This town is like in two states, and it's North Lemon if you're in North Dakota, and it's Lemon if you're in South Dakota, so. - You could shoot somebody in North Dakota. - In North, yeah. - Hey, how y'all gonna charge me now? It's a mess. - The paperwork jurisdiction. - I was never there. - Nope, never there. So it's two and a half hours to Sturgis. This is in the middle of nowhere. It's close to nothing. Two hours to Bismarck, North Dakota. - Yeah, capital. - And about two hours and 50 minutes to spearfish South Dakota, our last episode in South Dakota, episode 453, Torture, Torment, and Terror. - It's a good one, yeah. - It was a good one, yeah. Population here, 1252. Small town. - Very tiny, yeah. - It's a tiny town. Median household income also very low here, $41,875 is quite low. I think there's a lot of old people here, so it's a lot of fixed income. - A lot of things to do either. You know what I mean? There's lots of money to make. - I bet we have something to do, though. - Okay, tell me. - Yeah, it's for fun. Median home price here, $97,900. - Very affordable. - Very affordable. So the motto here is, quote, the cowboy capital. - Of what? - 1,200 people of this surrounding area. Cowboy capital, little bit of history explains that a bit. The guy who started this town, the US government leased him about 800,000 acres of what was the Standing Rock Indian reservation. Because this guy was a cattle rancher, so they're like, "Raze cattle here." Hey guys, move over. We sold that to somebody, so they can do stuff that-- - But it's ours, no, no, no, no, no, it's this apple. - So this is George Ed, quote, boss cow man lemon. - Oh boy. - Boss cow man. So he bought the land for the town site. He wanted to make his own town, and he wanted his town to be the county seat, is what he wanted to do. And he didn't do that, that it didn't end up being the county seat, but he did get the town, and the railroad officials just named it after him because they figured he's a pain in the ass, why not? - 'Cause he's the boss cow man. - He's the boss cow man, and he died here in 1945. Now, there's a few places that say that lemon in the 1920s was a sundown town, but then there's other places where it's hard to find it, so I don't know if that's true or not, actually. And there's a lot of official listings of all of them, and it's never, it's not in any of those. So I think maybe somebody misreported that, I'm not sure, if you've ever been there, and let us know. So reviews of this town, let's find out what other people think here, 'cause we've never been here, could be amazing. This is four stars, lemon is very warm and inviting. The only thing I would hope to see change in lemon is the availability of fun activities in town. Well, that's-- - There's 200 people. - It wouldn't be warm and inviting then, it would be full of people. Yeah, lemon is a small town of about 1,300 people, so it's very safe for families, there's not a lot going on here. Crime rate is very low here, and as it is in most small towns, that's not true as we know it was. - It's true as well. - We cover that. - A lot of shows about it. - Yeah, maybe in South Dakota, but that's possible too, there's not a lot up there. One public school in town makes for a very important emphasis on sports each year, which is one of my personal favorite aspects of lemon. - Sports. - Sports, high school sports, not going on, they do need fun activities. - High school sports-- - A sports scene here is amazing. - 12 and a vehicle. - You can just watch sophomores run around all day, it's amazing. Four stars, the food is good here, it's not comparable to a bigger town, but for small town, it's good. We have several bars, but the bars also serve food. - Wow. - He's just gonna tell us everywhere there's food. You're allowed to take food in the post office, but they don't sell any there. Three stars, the local businesses in lemon South Dakota are average, but not excellent. Our grocery store does not offer that wide variety of certain foods, such as fruits and vegetables, while our gas stations are well maintained, along with our pharmacy. - Not a lot of fruits and veggies around here. - Not a lot, sounds like Durham. We went out to dinner in Durham, quick story. We were there doing a show. - No veggies. - There's no veggies available in the restaurant. It was like a decent restaurant in a hotel, and we were like, "No vegetables come with that?" And they were like, "Oh, okay, is there a salad?" Now we don't have salad. It's like steak and pork chops and seafood, no nothing that ever grew from the ground. Nothing that didn't come out of another animal is there, it was wild. And I mean, we weren't looking for a lot, but I would have liked a salad before I ate a ribeye. - Anything green would have been nice. - Yeah, I did eat a ribeye, but a salad beforehand would have been-- - And a pork chop and turnips. - And turnips, yeah, which is, and they use those in place of potatoes. We don't count that. - Who the hell is eating a turnip? - Jimmy ate it like it was a potato, too. And he was like, "Oh, these potatoes are terrible." I was like, "That's 'cause they're not potatoes." Those are turnips. - That's a turnip, Jimmy. - I never had a turnip until that day. - Me neither. - Now I know why. - Yeah, no, 'cause we're not 14th century English peasants. That's why the fuck is eating a turnip. (laughing) - So bad. - Oh God, all right, three stars. There are many jobs in lemon, but most of them do not offer good hours or the pay is not good. How could there be many jobs in a town of 1200 people? - Yeah, and-- - They don't have any-- - It's gonna be, if service industry jobs are-- - Yeah, gas station, pharmacy. - There's not gonna be a lot of, yeah. - Yeah, there's not a lot of office jobs, I wouldn't think here. - I don't think CEOs are living here. - No, it's like if there's an insurance company, it's one person running it, you know? They don't have any paramedics here, that's a problem. - What? - So it would be impossible for me to continue my life after college and work in a field that I wanna work in. Oh, so he wants to be a paramedic. I think the bigger problem is there's no paramedics here. - Yeah, maybe you should start your own business of paramedics there. - Yeah, that's, I think it would work great. It's a lot of old people I think here too. - Things to do in this town, the petrified wood park. - Yeah. - Yeah, an entire block of downtown built completely out of petrified wood, fossils and stone, that's cool as fuck. - The whole, everything there is built, wow. - Yeah, that's filling an entire block, that sounds pretty neat. It was in private ownership until the '50s and then it was donated and it features a wishing well, a waterfall and a castle. The castle weighs 300 tons. - I can't imagine, does that shit is so dense, yeah. - Wow, that's a, it has spires and turrets. It's fucking cool and I saw it, it's badass. Also dinosaur claws, bird tracks and fossilized snakes can be seen in the swirls and patterns. - That is awesome. - Pretty goddamn cool, not bad. That said, let's talk about a murder. - Let's do it. - Let's talk about some people that need to be petrified here. Okay, let's start out with a man. Let's talk about a cowboy, shall we? He's a real cowboy. This is a real cowboy here. Yeah, he's born out here and he raises cattle and he works the ranches and he's a ranch hand and then has his own. He's a real cowboy. Walter Gibbs is his name, G-I-B-B-S. Double BS, but he's not full of shit. He's actually pretty cool guy, this guy. - Wally Gibbs. - Wally Gibbs, he's born August 10th, 1904. - Fuck yeah. - Don't worry, this story doesn't take place in the '30s or anything, it's a, trust us and go with us here. This is a crazy fucking story. Okay. - Old man at this point, huh? - Yeah, well now he, Christ he'd be 120, I'd call that pretty old. - Yeah, you would be, yeah. - He'd be the oldest man alive, I think. That would be the story, this is the story of the oldest man alive. So he was born August 10th, 1904 in Wahoo, Nebraska, which I didn't, that sounds made up. Named after the wrestler, McDaniel, obviously. He was the only child of Fred and Laura, who were ranchers. They moved to Morristown near Lemon in 1910 to homestead the land. - Hell yeah. - There was, there's nothing out there now. So imagine how little of anything there was. - Exactly, there was no battle. - No people, no roads, I mean they had the railroad, that's how you got there. He attended the country school and quote, this is from a friend of his, quote, farmed with his folks. - Jesus. - That's what he did. He went to the one room schoolhouse. I mean, this guy came up in a completely different world than we could. - Yeah, he had the leather strap for the books, that shit. - Oh, totally, yeah, went and sat with kids that were nowhere near his age and learned the same shit, all that stuff. He, his father was a Spanish American war veteran. - Hell yeah. - Which is amazing. - Yeah. - Like, that's, just, you don't hear a lot of that 'cause that's pre-World War I. So those people were so dead, you know, Teddy Roosevelt shit going on here. So he was raised like all the kids around here to be a reliable ranch hand. That's what he had to be. No matter from a young age, he had to be. One of his friends said he had a pasture out east of where this guy lived. And he said, I looked out there one morning and it was bright and early and sunlit out on the ranch. Think about that, you know, the sun's coming up. He said, just barely light. And he's out there checking his cattle. - Already out there. - Yep. And they're all gathering up around him. So he's got, come on, caddling him. They come to him. Hey guys, and he cuts them all on the head. It's like when I wake up, what happens with my dogs? - Yeah. - Anybody when you wake up and your dogs swarm you, that's what it is. - He's Cinderella for the Bulls. - That's, yeah. So another person whose grandfather was Walter's best friend back in the day, said that Walter really enjoyed playing the violin a lot. - He's a fiddle boy. - Yeah, well, if you think about it too, in 1915 back then or whatever, you get off the ranch for the day, there's no, there's not even radio at that point. There's no radio, there's no TV, there's no nothing and, you know, ranching ends at dark pretty much. So what else do you have to do? You can learn an instrument. - You can fiddle. - You can learn some shit. He said, him and his grandfather, Walter and this guy's grandfather used to get together and they'd play for hours on end and all this stuff. And so Walter's an interesting guy here. He's a violin playing cowpoke. - Absolutely. - Very interesting. - And he's like the bull lorax, they come to him. - They all, they come right to him. Yeah, the Piper of Bulls here. He's a, he's a, you wonder, it sounds like he'd be a ladies man, right? - He seems to, yeah, he could rule you. - Yeah, he could rule you. - So are you a nice song and as a gentleman. - Yeah, raise the cattle. - Well, if the cattle swarm you, I figure that, you know, anybody would, you know, like that means just means you have some sort of charisma. - Yeah, yeah, and yes, you come across as approachable and gentle. His friend though said, when he was a young man, I never ever heard of him having any romantic entanglements with anybody. - At all. - Think about it, he said, never ever, any romantic with anybody. Never ever any anybody, never, that says. - That is zero, that's less than zero, I think. Not even any prospects, that's less than zero. - That's less, yeah, he's not even like, I mean, he was talking to that one chick for a while. He, you've never seen him talk to a woman, never. And his friend said, I think he was really afraid of women, kind of shy about it, actually. - Okay, all right. - So that might be, because I mean, if you come up the only child on a ranch, you might not have the access to meeting many girls. - Right. - So when you get around them, when you're young, and then, you know, women, when you're older, you might not just, you don't know how to talk to them. Your mother's the only woman you've ever been around. - And the influence that he's had, perhaps, is there, I don't know, but maybe a woman who has a man and her son on a farm is not the most, like, tender and daring woman? You don't know. - That's possible, yeah, and the father too, you know, probably is a quiet sort, maybe a quiet cow hand type sort, so you don't learn any. - Do your job and shut the fuck up, kind of guy? - Not cracking a lot of jokes, probably, or anything, giving you like a personality round here. So his dad ends up dying in the 50s. So his dad's dead, so it's just him and his mom on the farm. - Yeah, he's in his 40s. - He's in his, at this point, Christ, he's in his 50s now. - 50s, yeah. - In the 50s, yeah. By 1963, his mom gets very ill and she's gonna die pretty soon here, which I mean, Christ, she's like 90 years old, that makes sense. So he hires someone to help them out around the house, 'cause he's doing ranch work, and he's got his mom sick in the house, so he needs somebody in the house to take care of his mom and do all that, so he finds a young lady to hire Dolores Wall, W-H-A, or W-A-H-L. - Yeah, I'd like to grow the process, yeah, yeah, yeah. - Like the clipper, she is born in 1945, so she's 18 years old at this point. - Okay, yeah. - And so he just, I gotta hire a young girl who can take care of my mom, that's all it is. Now she is not the brightest young lady going. No, she has an IQ of 74, 74, that's extremely, that's low, that's below the Mendoza line, as they say in baseball, that's on the wrong side. - Gump buried Jenny with that shit, so it's fine. - His was higher. - Was it? - Yes. - How much I think it wasn't his 82? - I don't know. - Yeah, that's a lot. She didn't finish grade school. Not high school, grade school, like one, two, three, four, five, six, because she didn't get to the end of that. - What do you do? - You take care of an old lady on a farm, that's what you do. - Yeah, at the end of days, yeah. - Yeah, she is, they say she was raised in poverty, you know, learning how to read and that kind of stuff wasn't a real priority, and I mean, come on, that's tough, if you don't have a lot to begin with, she wasn't dealt a great genetic hand to begin with, and then on top of that, you're also very poor, it's hard to build, yeah. - That's a foundation of sand, anything put on top of that's gonna fall over, that's not good. - Always. And she's troubled from the start, too, Dolores, always troubled from the start, but that does not stop her from having a torrid romance with Walter. Her and Walter hook up. - Is that right? - He is, Jesus, he's 16 years old, 59 when they started hooking up, and he, she was 18, that is. - Certainly not with it, but good for it, I don't know what, that's not good. - No, you gotta sell like, what, 20 million albums to make that acceptable in the world, right? - Yeah, with that IQ, that makes her like 13 to 15, you know what I mean? - She's definitely not with it. - Yeah, she functions, she reads at a second grade level the other way. - Okay, all right. - And does math at a level lower than that? - Yeah, well, I guess that's what's available, sorry, Wally. - Yeah, this is the first woman he's ever been around, and she's in his house, so. But still, she's a child, basically. I know 18 is a child, but when you're 59 it is. - Yeah, and there's multiple things here making her not okay. - This is all 40 years is a bit of a stretch. If you're like 30 and 70, I mean, I guess, I don't know, like I said, if the person who 70 is like real famous or something to share, very wealthy, very wealthy, I don't know, but 59 and 18 is a bit weird. - Yeah, when all you've got is a ranch. - Yeah, so they, for the next 10 years, they lived together in this house and on the farm that he grew up with in his parents' farm and everyone's fine. - Okay, we're getting closer to 30 and 70 now. - They were getting there, that's what I mean. Now she's 28 and barely, whatever, it's all fair game, I guess. - At that point, whatever. - She wasn't just in biology class or supposed to be. - Only this. (laughing) - No, so yeah, they're married in 64. By 73, they move to the lemon area. - Okay. - Okay, by 73. They soon divorce after they move here. - Really? - I think they were having trouble out there by themselves, that's why they move closer to this town and then it was still, you know, whatever. Dolores takes off. - Okay, she's gone. - Maybe 'cause she hasn't done anything, probably lived in a parent's house and then went to this old, yeah, then went to an old man's house and then lived with him for a while. She's probably gotta go do some stuff now. - Taking care of an ailing old lady and she's dead now? Mom? - Yeah, the mom died a couple of years. The mom died before they got married. So, yeah, or they got married and that killed the mom. The mom was like, oh my God. - That's possible, yeah. - You married that child that was taking care of me. - What have I done? - So, while she's gone, he's kind of, you know, he's kind of sort of retired at this point. - Yeah, yeah. - And he moves to town. He plays cards with people in town. - There's no ranch anymore. - Comes down. No, no, doesn't have the big ranch anymore. He'll have like a farmhouse later, but not a ranch. And everybody said he would take in anyone with a hard luck story. 'Cause he was, as he got older, a lot of his contemporaries were dying off. These are hard living, you know, ranch people. They beef like 16 times a week. Your heart can't take that for more than 60 years. - Those deaths, they may be fast, but they are fucking hard. They hurt. - Oh, yeah. Yeah, that's an ugly death. - Yeah, and also it's a big man. So, you can hear him at the ground. It's, you feel it. Is that a quick or did Bubba die? - He won't fight this disease, whatever takes him for very long. His heart is just gonna explode like a water balloon. He's gonna die with his eyes wide open. - One day strong as an ox. Next day, heart exploded. That's how it's gonna work. His eyes wide open. He is shocked that he died. - So, Walter's looking for friends. That's the thing, he's open to meeting people 'cause he's lonely here. His wife left, his friends are dying. Starting to stoop over with age. He's five foot 10 originally, but he's starting to get frailer, more frail with age here. So, where the hell did Dolores go? - Where? - Well, she got tired of the sporing life of sitting around with an old man and watching him get older. And she found a guy who you, a ranch hand, a young man, probably around her age. A bunch of guys came up from Oklahoma to do work and when they left, she ran away with the guy. One of the Oklahoma guys, they said, some guy from the area said, "We called him hay shakers." (laughing) - Okay. - Guys, it beat horses. - How's she doing? How's everybody doing out there? All my little hay shakers, how you doing? From now on, you're turkeys and hay shakers. How do you like that? - What are you in town? - What? - I'm a hay shaker from Oklahoma. - Just shaking some hay here from a migrant hay shaker. - I can't believe there's not a country band out there with that as like-- - The hay shakers? - Yeah. - Yeah. - Terence Riley and the hay shakers. - I'm the hay shakers. - That really should be a country band. - It is, yeah. - They sing the song, "I Stole Your Wife Dolores." (laughing) Heard that one? - They sing a song called, "She Ain't Never Coming Back." 'Cause we bringing her with us. (laughing) - We take it. (laughing) - We're at the scene. - Yeah, we're at the scene. 'Cause we taking her with us. (laughing) - Problem is, this doesn't work out very long. She's only gone, she's gone a couple of years, but she found herself in trouble in Kansas. - Oh. - She found herself broken up with this guy and in trouble with the law in Kansas. - Oh shit, that's a mentor song. - That's what I mean. This whole thing, this episode, if there's any talented musicians out there, please take this entire episode and make a country song out of it, 'cause it's fucking amazing. It's either a country song or write a weird Twin Peaks style script, as it's wild. - I want the country song. Jason Ballon, get it, come on. - I don't know, there's gonna be a lot of verses though, 'cause where you gonna, it gets, it's-- - It's gonna be your whole concert, it's just this one song. - And it's so crazy that it would sound silly. It's a rock opera, it's like Tommy, basically, it's like the who. - This is better, there might be a market for that. Was there ever a market for Tommy? That sucks. - It was huge. - Was it? - It was monstrous, absolutely humongous. Those guys are still spending Tommy money. - I can't believe it. - Still spending Tommy money. - Wow. - So, anyway, she's in trouble in Kansas. God, I wanna talk about that for so long, but we have to do this story. Walter found out where she was and he headed for Kansas and brought her home. - He went and got her. - Went and got her, and waiting here. - Saddle up, we ride it dawn. - Not only did he go get her, one of the friends said, quote, one time Dolores ran off with some guy and they went clear south, that's this time. She, clear south is one state south, by the way. - Clear south, two states away. - Yeah, clear south. - She called Walter and he asked if she'd come back. She said she would if he would buy a brand new car and come and get her, and that's what he did. - Oh, why? - So, yeah, I've been gone a couple of years, I've been getting my hayshaking by this fucking fellow over here, and that's an inside joke, the fella part too, so I guess, and then she has demands to come back and he says, okay, and then he comes back. - And he goes and gets like, I hope he bought like a fucking a justy or something awful. - Just, here you go, it's Brandon. He hadn't walked since she left, Jimmy. He was on set with me and said, sorry. We were making fun of songs, we were making fun of funny old lyrics before this, and we came to that and we've been talking about it. I was like, I gotta squeeze that in here somewhere. - He said he'll never walk again. - Never walk, so I got a wheelchair. What do you want from me? I'm done. So, 19, so they've been divorced now for like two years, by the way, they got divorced when she ran away. 1977, they get remarried. - Again? - Walter and Dolores get remarried. - The man is 74 years old. - She's back in the fall though, it's fine. Then, later on in the year, they get divorced again. So that didn't work out. That didn't work out. Dolores then marries someone else here, a guy with the last name of Kristensen, not Kristensen, Kristensen, marries him, and she has a daughter born around 1978, named Robin with a Y. Okay, so that's Dolores's daughter. They get, he divorces her, Dolores divorces this guy. - Kristensen, she's done with him too. - Kristensen's done with him, and now it's just her and Robin, okay. Now, 1979, Walter finds love again. - Wally. - Good for you. - And it's not with Dolores. - No? - But it's with someone strikingly similar to Dolores. - Who is? - Because, and this is the soap opera twist. It's her identical twin sister, Darlene. I swear to God, I swear to fucking God. - Darlene. - Her identical twin sister, Darlene. - Does she, does she have it together? - No, she's not disaster. She's more fucked up than, she's smarter, but she's wackier. - Oh no. - She's been arrested for arson and all sorts of shit. She's nuts, so. (upbeat music) - Hey everybody, just gonna take a quick break from the show and tell you about an awesome and an absolutely safe sponsor. 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Okay, 1982, Walter remarries Darlene. - God damn it, Wally. - What is happening right now? That's, I mean, this country song would be hard to follow. You'd be like, wait, did he just, wait, he fucked her sister, then he got, then he married her again. Is it the same sister? I'm confused, hold on a minute. How am I listening to here? - This is fucked up. - This is wild stuff right here. Only on this show will you get this insanity. So yeah, he marries her again in '82, they're married. He rented out the family farm at that point, rents out the family farm and moved into, into the proper lemon town here. So, lemon proper, they moved to. December 1983, I'm gonna give you a guess what happens. - Did he get divorced? - They get divorced, it didn't work. Stop marrying Darlene, since they're working. At least one, he was married to for 10 years one time. - He's married with rice now, yeah? - No, twice, twice, two times married, two times divorced. - Okay, got it, yeah. - So he's been married to these sisters four total times and divorced them four total times. - Both of them twice. Both of them married identical twin sisters twice and divorced them twice. Has that ever happened in the history of the world? - Well, there's two of them, so you have to do it. - I mean, you know what I mean? Like, there's gotta be someone who's married identical twins, both of them. I'm sure that's happened. - That's true. - But twice each? I don't think that's ever happened. That's remarkable. - Oh my God. - We've uncovered new ground here. So, they get divorced. Walter's friend here said, and this guy has known him for a long time, said Walter was a nice guy until he got mixed up with those knit-wit twins. (laughs) That's such an old Midwestern man way to put it. And knit-wit twins. They're crazier than a couple of bed bugs. He goes on to say-- - What? - Crazier? In a couple of bed bugs. - What? I wanna get to the bottom of that state. - I do too a lot. That's gotta be some old bunkhouse saying, you know what I mean? - Crazier than bed? Wow. - Yeah, I guess it's crazy to sneak in someone's bed and then bite them, I guess. That's crazy. - It's crazy. - So, 1984, Walter gets married again. - Who this time? - To someone not in the Wall family, luckily. - Oh, thank God. - He finds a woman named June Penny. So, there you go. I don't know how old she is, but I don't know. She's striking me. - Of the JC Fortune. - Of the JC, yeah. June Carter Penny is her name. Early 1984 and 1985, member Dolores and her daughter Robin. - I remember her. - Yeah, yeah. - They're moving around all over the place in South Dakota and North Dakota. They're having a tough time getting any grounding. They can't, Darlene and Dolores don't do well in the world, which doesn't surprise me, really, because it'd be hard to, with honestly, the toolbox Dolores is working with is not full. - It's missing screwdriver. - There's, where's the three-eighths? It's not here, fuck like this. She's missing a lot, yeah, only a flathead. - The 10 millimeter disappears quick, but where's the 13? - She's got a lot of tools missing from this box. So, around this time too, Dolores is convicted of theft and went to jail for a while. I don't know what happened to her daughter, but at some point they're reunited here. - Great. - So she goes to jail for a while. 1986, Walter and June get a divorce. - Okay. - So that's over with now. - Oh boy. - Walter should just swear off marriage at this point forever. - He's not good at it. - Number one, he's 82, I think it's time. And number two, I mean, it's really never works out. It always seems like a better idea than it really is for this guy. - Leave everything to the state and let them fix a road with your shit. - Yeah, this is a mess. Yeah, stop doing that shit. One of his friends said that Walter was a quote, "Good old shoe." - What is that? - At least he's not crazier than a bedbug. They're saying, "Good old shoe." They're like a comfortable, nice, accommodating. - Yeah. - Broken in. - Broken in. - Good laces. - Real nice laces. Never untie, never untie by themselves. His friend also said he was a good neighbor, too good for his own good. Too good for his own good. - He's so good. - And an easy touch. - What? - And he's an easy touch, like an old shoe. - I don't know. - I don't know. I feel like I would go to this town and just go, I don't know what, where is, I'm just wondering where the, what, I don't. - He's a salt sticky. What does that mean? - Jimmy, can we leave now? 'Cause I don't know what anybody's talking about. - This is really weird. This is so strange. His friend also said he was just a brute for punishment. I think Glutton is the word she's looking for here. I think he thought he was helping them, meaning all the women he's with. They were all, they were all just taking good advantage of him. - Okay. - They really have a strange way of speaking. - Sure do. - And these are all people who like known Walter for years, so they're also probably 80. They were all born in 1912 in South Dakota, so I understand the nomenclature maybe being a little different than we're used to. So around that time, Darlene, twin number two from his 80s marriages, she gets married, a little sharper, but she uses it for evil, so she gets married again. Okay, she marries a guy named Jerome Phillips, who's about three years younger than she is. He goes by Jerry, Jerry Phillips here. Jerry's a big guy, six, two, two, 75. He's a real big kind of a guy, weird looking guy too, and his head is a weird looking guy. - A big Jerome. - A big Jerome, yeah. They met in prison, that's good. - She met a man in prison? - Yes, she met a man in prison, 'cause they were both in the same prison, I guess during maybe visiting hours, they crossed paths, something. - It's probably so small, they just keep them all together. - Yeah, well I mean too, what they're in for too, I mean they seem like a match made in heaven. He's in for writing bad checks, and she's in for setting fire to a house in Bison, to the town of Bison. - You combine the both, that's a damn nice night. - That's a real, he's got checks to burn, and she's got the flames to burn him. So yeah, he's a convicted felon, this isn't the first time he's been in jail in prison, he's convicted of felonies before, he's a known sheep wrestler. - What? - I say he's a sheep wrestler. - In the '80s? - The late '80s. Think about this shit, the late '80s. - Russell. - Hulk Hogan was saying his prayers and vitamins, and Madonna was already a material girl, and we didn't know Michael Jackson like kids, the Hulk, it was, this is the '80s. - Yeah, he's rustling sheep. - Sheep rustling, which is something from a John Wayne movie. - Yeah. - You know, also a hog wrestler as well. So you know, if you're gonna ruffles sheep him as well. - Steel and livestock, at all, in the '80s, is fuckin' wild. - My ass is wild. - Yeah. So 1988, Jerome and Darlene, the newlyweds, they move in together, 'cause they're married once they get out of jail, and Dolores and Robin come live with them. - Sure, why not? - Let's all get in this together. Between the three adults and child, no one can make enough money to survive. - Right, yeah. - Nobody can. I mean, they're all convicted felons too, which is a problem. - The child is the only one that doesn't have a record. Whenever they go out anywhere, the child has to drive. They're like, you're the only one without a dewy. You gotta do it. I'm sorry. - You're the only one with a license that's clean. - You're the only clean one here. Plus, we've all been drinking. So Darlene had been convicted of arson two different times by now, by the way. - She loves fire. - And Dolores and Darlene were known for starting fires. Dolores helps her sometimes. Seems like Darlene does a lot of stuff with Dolores in total, like a little sister because I guess 'cause she's a little smarter maybe. And there's a lot of times, that's how it is with twins too, sometimes. And then sometimes they're like the scars and they're just like, you took a person and cut them in half and now they're just the same person. Yeah, talking to them and your head's going back and forth like a tennis match as they finish each other's sentence. - And how do you guys know what the other guys gonna say all the time? This is crazy. - Fucking creepy, man. - I can't believe it. - Why is this so creepy? One person said, quote, "Everybody was afraid of them. To the locals, the twins are dangerous arsonists." So, obviously, now February of 1989, Dolores contacts Walter. They haven't been in touch in a long time, besides family functions when she was married to Darlene, I'm sure. He at this point is in Headinger, North Dakota at a nursing home where he's living. He's not sick or dying. - Oh, he just doesn't have any. - Hanging out. I think it's a place to hang out, you know what I mean? - And this is where I'll end up, so I may as well just start here. - I think it's like Green Grove where they sent Tony Soprano's mother and where there's, you know, activities and all that shit. So, Dolores off quote, unquote, "offers" to move back to Lemon and get you out of that nursing home, put you back in your house and I'll take care of you. - Yeah. - Dolores says-- - Just need a hundred dollars cash. - I just need a hundred dollars cash. It's a Stevie reference. So, February of 1989, Dolores and Robin come move in and so do Darlene and Jerry, bringing them too. Everybody coming along, they got keys to the house and start cleaning and preparing for Walter to come back. They all move into the home to, quote, take care of him. So, this is for about two months, they do this and then Walter moves back into the house, April 15th, 1989, he's returned. So, at this point, by the way, his will, that's a factor, his will, his attorney, a guy named Curtis Hanks, had represented him in all five divorces. He's a good client this Walter, he's a-- - Very loyal. - He'll keep getting divorced, so-- - The only person who's loyal to is his lawyer. - His his lawyer, yeah. All of the wills named his first cousin Bernice Botner as the beneficiary. It's like his only family member he's got around. In March 1989, at the request of Walter, prior to leaving the nursing home, they grew up, they drew up an addendum to this or whatever, leaving the home in lemon to Dolores and the rest of the estate to his cousin. So, that way, when he dies, she won't get kicked out of the house now, you know. - She also went, she owns the house, I don't know. - Yeah, then all of his money and his stock stuff and everything, that all goes to his cousin. So, that's how that goes. And they are all, I guess, living like one big happy family. Yeah, everybody's there, they're taking care of him. Dolores is the one doing most of the cooking, twin number one. - Sure. - And she does the laundry, she gives Walter regular baths. - Oh. - She's gotta do that. Jerry would help Walter with such things as getting in and out of the bathtub. So, let me have my ex-wife's new husband come here, give me a hand into the bathtub, and then my ex-wife can sponge me off. What the fuck is happening? A different ex-wife from this guy, by the way. - Yeah, the other ex. - Holy shit, but Darlene, Jerry, nobody's got a job, by the way, all through his house. No, their job is to take care of him. He pays the bills, he handles his own finances and all the stuff relating to the farm and everything like that. Oh, by the way, forgot to mention this. I didn't forget, but here it is. Here's a fun one. In addition to all the other just weird dynamics of everybody being married twice, and new husbands and all this shit being involved. In addition to all of this, Dolores, twin number one, and Jerry, twin number two's current husband, are also fucking at this point. - He's banging twins? - Which was approved of and fine with Darlene. - Negotiated, perfectly fine. - This is all okay. - So Jerry's now banging both of-- - Both twins. - Both Wally's exes. - Not at the same time, but yes. Yeah, and he's doing it twice, I'm sure, just to make sure. - Oh, man, yeah. - So a friend of Walters, who'd known him for a few years, said that Walters' physical condition and the condition of his home during the time that everyone was living there, falling apart. Specifically, he said that the house had a quote, "strong odor of dog urine and body odor." - Oh, no, oh boy. - And that Gibbs' physical condition seemed to have deteriorated and he seemed slightly disoriented. - Yeah, those two smells fighting it out to be top dog in here, it's not good. - I feel like a lot of that stinks coming from Jerry, for some reason. - Probably, yeah. - They got like a 300 pound guy in there who's banging both twins, not shower, and he has nowhere to be, he's not taking a shower, it's probably disgusting in there. August 20th, 1989, a fire breaks out in the hall. - Oh no, the smells are busted. - Yeah, now, Walter sleeps in the living room on like a pull out couch, that's where he sleeps. - Nice. - So he can have access, I don't know, to the bathroom and other people can have sex in the bedrooms. - Right, so the people can fuck in his room, that's not cool at all. - So the fire starts in the living room. So that's not great. A neighbor happened to be outside when it happened. This was the night while Walter was sleeping so he came over and saved Walter and the neighbors put the house out. Even the fire department came and I'm sure helped too. So then the next day, the fire, the house burned to the ground. - Oh, it really ignited. - Yeah, so we were wondering maybe they didn't get it out all the way. Some smoldering, nope, Darlene burned it down. She tried once, didn't work, set it on fire the next day. There we go, now we're talking. So the neighbor said, quote, they were fire bugs. So they're bed bugs and fire bugs. - There you go, crazier than two fire bugs, is it fun? - Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. They tried to burn it down one day and we got back in time to save it. The next day, they burned it to the ground. - Finished it, yeah. - That's what happened. So January 5th, 1990, he changes his will, Walter does. Yes, his attorney, a different attorney this time, Jeff Rottering, not the one he's used for years and years, said that Darlene and Dolores came into his office without an appointment on January 4th with a request that this lawyer help Gibbs revise his will. So they met for two hours with Gibbs at his home and this lawyer said he was convinced that Gibbs voluntarily wanted to make Dolores as beneficiary. So now the estate, including the house, the farm, the land, the cattle, farm implements, money, stocks, bank accounts, saving cattle, come on. All that shit is all Dolores is now in the will. - Okay. - So, I don't know, for whatever that's worth, it's about $178,000. - Really? - Of his estate here. So that's what he does, that's January 5th. By January 8th, the whole crew was talking about killing him. - Three days, 72 hours, you know. - Three days. - They were driving to Gerome, or Geri's brother's funeral and Darlene and Geri discussed, this is the first time it's came up, Darlene and Geri discussed killing Gibbs in order to, quote, activate the will, they said. - Activate. - So Darlene said maybe we can mess with his medications, he's got a bad heart, he's on a bunch of medications, maybe we could fuck with that. So, but nothing that much comes of it, there's just a little chit chat here. By late February 1990, the talks are getting a little deeper. - Oh boy. - Yeah, they're talking about Darlene says, well, we can weaken him and speed up his death by mixing sleeping pills and nitroglycerin tablets and with his tea. - Good Christ. - And then we could also put sleeping pills in his milk of magnesium as well. - He's in his 80s, give it a minute. - It's 85, that's just hang out. And he's not healthy either, he's not looking how many pills he's on. This is his heart's week, he's 85. Give it a second. - Let the guy go, goddamn. - So I guess during these conversations, this is mainly Darlene and Geri, and Dolores is there, but she just kind of sits there. I don't know if she understands what's going on, honestly, she's just sitting there, she seems to get what's happening though. So a few days, weeks go by, Darlene again says, we should really spike his tea with medication. And then eventually she comes to Geri and Dolores and said that she loaded up Walter's milk of magnesium with sleeping pills and prescription meds. So, fingers crossed. - Oh, he's gonna take a big plug of that. - Jesus Christ. So they were, I guess, Geri and Dolores at the time, they knew what Darlene was wanting to do. And I guess Dolores hasn't really shown any interest one way or the other. She hasn't, she's not for Oregon at this point. She hasn't decided whether she's with this or a yay or nay on this point. Or she hasn't told anybody. So Dolores on at least one occasion purchased over-the-counter sleeping pills when she refilled Gibbs's prescriptions because she's the one that refills her stuff. - Really aggressive with this too, yeah. - She has to be acquiescing at some point here because she's buying the pills to do this with. So the last week of March, Darlene says, you know what, this is Darlene Dolores and Geri hanging out, sitting at the kitchen table. Darlene says, what if we smother him with a pillow? He's pretty old, that shouldn't take long. - Throw mama from the train just came out. - I mean, yeah, let's give it a shot. It's out right now. So without saying anything, Dolores gets up, goes to her bedroom and comes back with a pillow. - Oh my God. - But no, not for Walter. This is to do a test run. So it gives it to Geri. Geri Darlene says, yeah, yeah, put it over my face and I'll see if I can breathe. - See how long it takes. - See if I can breathe. - Yeah. - So they do a suffocation test and Geri puts the pillow over her face and presses down and she's like, oh, thumbs up. She's given, she's like, yeah, this is awful. I can't breathe for shit. So they're like, that could be a plan. (laughing) - So Geri stopped. - Geri, oh yeah, no, this was just a test to see if Darlene could breathe under there. She said, yeah, no, I can't breathe at all. They were like, awesome. And then they went to Dairy Queen or something, I'm sure. So March 31 comes out, 1990, it's a Saturday evening. Darn, Darlene announces to the other two that, okay, I put more shit in his food and drink than I normally do. So, if he's alive in the morning, we are gonna have to do something else. It's not, you know, if he's alive. So, morning time comes and 911 gets a frantic call from Darlene, oh, it's a farmhouse on the edge of town and she said there's an elderly gentleman. He seems to be dying, I don't know what happened. You know, we woke up, he's old, who knows. So, they send the ambulance. So, apparently they do have a paramedic somewhere. - Yeah, somewhere nearby. - At the house, Darlene lets them in. She says she lives there with her ex-husband, who is 85-year-old Walter Gibbs. They come into the house, they see him, he's lying on the bed there in the living room, non-responsive. Darlene said, well, he's been declining in health and he's got a pacemaker and he's on these meds and starts handing him all heart medications. - Why would you do this? - So, the EMTs are like, oh, it's obviously a heart attack. He's 85 and he's on 800 heart medications, got a pacemaker. His pace was worn out at this point. - His pace has been made. - It's been made, man. His pace, it's stopped at this point, that's a space. (upbeat music) Hey everybody, just gonna take a quick break from the show and tell you a little bit more about our friends, our very fashionable friends at Quince. Head over there, we have had it over there. I've gotten some good stuff, I got a jacket, I got sunglasses, I got undershirts. - I got linen pants, oh, look at that. 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That's quincequnce.com/smalltownmurder to get free shipping and 365 day returns, quince.com/smalltownmurder. - Now back to the show. (upbeat music) - Hey everybody, just gonna take a quick break from the show to tell you a little bit about Angie. - Oh Angie.com, A-N-G-I.com. - Absolutely Angie, good stuff, Angie's list is now Angie, the nation's largest home services marketplace, and they're here to help homeowners get all their jobs done well. - All right. - Angie, yes, they've helped over 150 million homeowners care for their homes. Whenever the project, big small indoor outdoor, come to Angie, you understand, we both own homes and projects are difficult, so. - And they pile up. - They pile up and Angie makes tackling the project simple from start to finish, get started on the app or you can go to Angie.com. That is A-N-G-I.com. Get your job done well with Angie today. - And now back to the show. - To stop a serial killer, you must think like one. That was the insight of psychiatric nurse Dr. Anne Burgess as she studied the patterns of serial murderers and their victims. The new Hulu original docuseries, Mastermind, to think like a killer offers a fascinating portrait of Burgess who became the mastermind behind modern serial killer profiling. Her techniques and expertise took her deep into the minds of some of the most notorious serial murderers from Ed Kemper to Ted Bundy, a must watch for fans of true crime. All episodes of Mastermind to think like a killer are now streaming only on Hulu. - So they tried to perform CPR in an effort to save him but didn't work, they got to the hospital, looked at him, he's dead as a doornail, there's that. So he's pronounced dead. No indication of any injuries, bruising. You know, it didn't look like somebody beat him or anything like that. He's just an old man who died in his sleep. Significant heart history, taking lots of medication, manner of death ruled natural. Poor guy, just happens. No autopsy, just a dead old man who croaked in his sleep. - Is that right? - Just an 85 year old man who croaked in his sleep, got to preserve our resources. - You just saw him open for this shit. It's pretty obvious what happened. - We know. - We're gonna find a pacemaker in there. - Yeah, and then all these medications, that's what we're gonna find if we have an autopsy. So they have a funeral and Jerry's one of the Paul Bearers, you know, does that, his assets, Dolores petitions for probate of the will. Yes, she has the right to. The cousin objects to this though, citing that Walter was incompetent and lacked the capacity to change his will when it happened. So it's being whatever. So July 1990, they have a hearing on the will and they found that according to the lawyer who did it and everything else that Walter, he was mentally confident. There was no confidential relationship between Walter and Dolores. - And so fucked up. - So the cousin appeals that and that'll come up later. 1990, at some point in here, they found out Darlene is the one who set the house fire. - Yeah. - And Darlene's arrested for it and charged with arson. - Oh. - So August of 1990, she's gonna be sentenced for this and it's not her first offense, it's like her third offense. - Right. - And this is first degree arson for setting the house on fire. She is sentenced to, you ma'am, may fuck off 50 years in prison for that. - 50 fucking. - 50, 50 years in prison. - They take fire dead serious up there 'cause everything's flammable. - Shit, I guess so. She maintained her innocence throughout the trial and she, 50. So then the next month, September 1990, completely unrelated incident here. Darlene and Darlene, or I'm Darlene's in prison, I'm sorry, Darlene and Dolores who've now just hooked up and they're just the two that are left. They're arrested together for rustling 12 lambs and five pigs from a local rancher and the Lemon Livestock auction. - From the one. - Yes. - Oh, for heaven's sake. - They're arrested for lamb rustling. Have we had, how many murder shows do you listen to where people get arrested for lamb rustling and marry twins twice? Come on, this is a country song. - Is she okay? - Yeah, she's, we'll find out, okay. For the lamb sentencing here, Dolores is sentenced to, you ma'am may fuck off 60 days in the county jail, not much. - Yeah, good months, yeah. - Jerome is sentenced to eight years in the state of the century. - Oh my. - This isn't his first Russell, that's why. He's been rustling for years now. - They take this shit serious too. - Yeah, now Dolores planned to marry a different guy, she found, I don't know where they're finding all these people, she was planning on getting out, marrying him when she got done with her sentence, but he took off to Montana to rustle some more, I'm sorry, a different guy. - They're all wild up there, James. - Yeah. - They're all men. - Very feral. So now Jerry's in jail, Darlene's in jail, and Dolores gets out pretty quick. Twin number one, it's out pretty quick. So Darlene, twin number two, is in the Springfield Correctional Facility on the arson conviction. - 50 years. - 50 years. While incarcerated, she befriends Gail Baskin, who is another inmate at the prison, who is pretty notorious and serving time on a manslaughter charge for the death of her foster child. - Jesus. - Yeah, she was mentally, you know, about the same range as Dolores, the foster child, and death and unable to speak. Death and mute was child. And yeah, apparently she had told the coroners that he died from an epileptic seizure, but they showed bruises all over this girl's body and everywhere, and they-- - The baby was death and mute? - Yes, the foster child wasn't a baby, it was like a 12-year-old, but she murdered her death mute 12-year-old, this Gail Baskin. - Fucked up. Those Baskin babies are nuts. - Yeah, it's trial gotta be Carol's sister. (laughing) Maybe a twin, maybe identical. We're not sure. - I would not be surprised. - So this is a foster child too, you didn't have to bring that child in. It's not like, oh my God, I'm stuck with this. Such a burden, it came out of me. It's not even, it didn't even come out of you, give it to somebody else. Give the child to somebody else that might take care of it. So anyway, in prison here, Darlene tells Baskin, she figures I can trust this sick lady here. - Sick bitch. - Sick bitch over here. That Walter had not died of natural causes, but had been murdered by me and my cohorts. - 'Cause I'm a badass too. - Yeah, so Baskin, through third parties, contacts Robert Overturf, a special agent for the Division of Criminal Investigation in South Dakota. - Yeah? - Baskin tells this agent Overturf, she had information concerning a murder that happened. So they meet with Baskin, and then they go, "We gotta meet this Darlene, lady." Holy shit. So they take Darlene into interview her, the cops do. She requests that Baskin be present. She didn't even realize that she's only here because her friend told on her. - Yeah. - So at her insistence, they went to jail and got Baskin out. Mayor Shine, she'll sit here. Once she arrived, they turned the tape recorder on, and they Mirandaized her, and Darlene waved her rights to this whole thing. And she said, he kept asking her whether she wanted an attorney, and she responded by asking if an attorney was present. They said, "Do you want an attorney?" She said, "Is there an attorney here right now?" And he said, "Do you think Baskin's a fucking attorney?" - Right. - "We're not attorneys, so no, they're not bright, these girls, at all. - No shit. - These ladies are not very bright. And Phillips then asked how soon she could get an attorney. And he replied that he couldn't get her one right away, and if she wanted an attorney, we'd end it, take you back to the jail, and then we'll get you an attorney, and we'll do this again. So at that time, the agent, he ended the interview, left the room to call the attorney general's office to get her public defender. The other agent there remained in the room with the two ladies. Agent Overturf returns to the room, and then now Darlene says, "I wanna make a statement." - Okay. - So they turned the tape recorder back on, so we don't know what this guy said in the interim tour. And Remarandized her. This time, she said that, okay, she said she would, I'll give him a statement without an attorney, it's okay, she says, and she stated that she hadn't been forced or coerced into making the statement on the tape recorder and all that. She says, "In the morning of April 1st, Dolores told Robin to take the dogs for a walk. Go take the dogs for a walk." After Robin left, Darlene got a pillow from her bedroom and gave it to Jerry. She said Dolores sat at the kitchen table, which is about 17 feet from Gibbs's bed, from Walter's bed. She didn't move, didn't do anything, Dolores. She just sat there. Darlene held Walter's arms down while Jerry smothered him. - Oh boy. - That's fucking cold-blooded, man. - Oh shit. - You don't just die quietly 'cause you're old. You don't just go, "Oh, I'm gonna die soon anyway." And then you just, two seconds, you go limp. Like it's still a man fighting for his wife. - This is our... - Have him from being able to claw back. Wow. - Yep. And they said that Darlene was sitting at the kitchen table, or Dolores was sitting at the kitchen table the whole time. So twin two held down the arms, twin one at the table here. Jerry removed the pillow and Dolores went over and hugged him. We don't know why. Whether she was sad, happy, we have no idea. So she says, Darlene says she's been given Walter sleeping pills. Before that, she held his arms down, placed a pillow on his face and all that kind of stuff. So Dolores, they bring her in, and she admits the pillow test. She said, "We did do a test with the pillow." She said, "But I was at the table. "I didn't do anything with the murder, "and I didn't know it was gonna happen, "even though they had done that." She said, "Dolores tells the investigators "she did agree to give Jerome money to buy a farm "after Walter was dead. "I did agree to pay the hitman, "but I didn't know what was going on." - I paid the service fees. - Wow, so Robin, they talked to Robin, the kid of the only person here he could probably trust for anything. - Yeah, the only one that's got any sort of legitimacy. - Yeah, she says that morning her aunt and mother had argued with Jerome, and she says that she never witnessed any physical displays of violence in the house that they shared here. She called Walter, Uncle Walter, by the way. - Oh boy, yeah. - She said it was like a grandfather to her. She said that her mother and aunt argued with Jerome, but she didn't perceive that they feared him at all. She said that Robin said she wasn't afraid of him, even though he had threatened to spank her at one point, and required her to wear long sleeve blouses and long dresses. Dress like your Amish. - Yeah, like a man born in 1903. - Yeah, no, not Walter, Jerome. - Jerome told her that? - Yes, this is all about Jerome, saying they were-- - What the hell? - 'Cause they're gonna say later, the ladies are gonna say we were afraid of Jerry. Jerry made us do this. - Okay. - So they were asking the girl, the young girl, was Jerry terrorizing the house, and she said maybe wear long sleeves, but other than that, no biggie. - Kinda spanked me once, but everything's good. - Yep, she said though she couldn't remember if it was her mother or her aunt who told her to walk the dogs. - Okay. - So May 6, 1991, after 13 months in the ground, we pull Walter out of the ground. - Oh, god damn it. - Autopsy found white pellets in his stomach. Toxicology results identified that as, ooh, hoof, diffin' hydromine, which is-- - What the fuck is that? - Sleeping pills, active ingredient in sleeping pills. And they said finding those pills ended up being the forensic proof that this murder did occur, 'cause it follows what she said. The manner of death was changed to homicide, and they officially charged everybody in the house, but Robin. - Oh boy. - Ball officially charged with murder, first degree murder. The police chief, by the way, after this, they interviewed him about the twins. He said, "The twins tell me I'm like a brother to them. "I don't know why, I guess because I've arrested them "several times." - 'Cause we spend more time together with our family. - You're the nicest person we know. So they talked to Jerome, Jerome flips. Jerry flips on the twins. Oh yeah, he's gonna testify against them. He's gonna plead to conspiracy to commit second degree murder and testify against both the twins here. - Yeah, he said, "No problem, happy to do it." So he said that Delora said we wouldn't have to worry about getting kicked out into the street if Walter died, which they wouldn't have anyway, because the house was going to hurt. - That's the only way. - So yeah, apparently people around town, the sheriff said, "We've kept it quiet. "I don't think a lot of people around here "know much about it." - Well that's-- - A town of 1,200 people, they don't know about the murder. Yeah, that's ridiculous here. So they have a joint trial, twins having a joint trial, sitting right next to the jury. - That is fantastic. - That's hilarious. - So which one, somebody on the jury was confused, right? - There's no way they kept it straight the whole time. (laughing) - Both guilty, I guess, right? That's all you'd have to say. But a jury of 10 women and four men, still are gonna be alternate here. The trial was moved because of-- 'Cause no one talked about it apparently. - 'Cause nobody's heard of it. - Jesus, so Jerry testifies. He testifies that he and Dolores had been lovers, and he still loved her even though he's married to her sister, who I also still love, he said. He said the whole thing developed mid-March with the test of the pillow, with Darlene acting as Walter. He said that we wouldn't have to worry about getting kicked out. He said that he put a pillow over Gibbs's face because he felt sorry for Walter and didn't wanna see him suffer. He felt sorry that he was murdering him or felt sorry for the situation of his life. - He just felt sorry that he was killing him, he said. Which I had it doesn't sound like Walter. That doesn't sound like Jerome, I mean, that sounds like somebody nice. So Dolores's defense is that she's a moron. That's her defense. - I'm too dumb to understand death and murder. - Literally too dumb. The Pedro Guerrero defense, which, you know what that is, it's a baseball player who got caught with a bunch of financial stuff. And in court, he said, his lawyer said he didn't even, he was too dumb to tie his shoes. So how could he do this? So during the defense, she called up Carol Picard, who's the director of the Career Learning Center in Rapid City, South Dakota. And this Picard testified that Christians, and this is Dolores, read and performed math at a second grade level and was probably not intelligent enough to conspire anything with anybody, basically. - Oh boy. - So when they cross-examined her, they found out she had an IQ of 74, which falls into the lowest 4% of human beings. - Human beings. - Bottom 5% of brightness. - Bottom of the world. - Of the world, yeah. So then there was a rebuttal witness here. The state calls a counselor and psychotherapist who performed a psychological evaluation on Jerome. They concluded his IQ was 88, and that he was upset and crying for help, and that he had a number of depressive symptoms, and that he was very dependent, individual, with very low self-esteem. Oh, poor Jerome. Oh, poor guy, you got low self-esteem. Stop killing old people, you dumb fuck. That'll do it. - He's also got, I don't know, I don't know what 10 points is gonna do for somebody, but I don't know what, it's 86, is that a lot? - 88, 74 to 88 is a big difference. - It's a big jump. - It's a big jump in that area, yeah. It's not a huge jump, but it's not, I think if it was like 130 to fucking 144, I don't know how big of a jump that is, but this is a huge one, I think, in this area. - This is the difference between turning on the hot or the cold water. - Yeah, hurting yourself. - Yes, so they also got Dolores to shrink in there. Steven Manlove is his name, poor guy. He found Dolores to be competent and sane, but he also found evidence of limited intellectual functioning and a personality disorder. He said she has a histrionic personality disorder. Individuals with this are relying on those around them for their self-esteem. She is reliant on others for her self-esteem. The people around her would have a greater effect than average on her ability to exercise independent thought and choice at the time of the crime. Her disorder renders her more susceptible to coercion by others, she's dumb and it makes her easily convinced. - Very gullible, yeah. - They said she's in the borderline retarded range for intellectual functioning. So in closing, the prosecutor said here that the sisters persuaded this guy to change his fucking will and then had this big guy put a pillow over his face. He said one held his arms down and the other, quote, sat in the kitchen while Jerome and Darlene went into the living room and did this. So everybody's guilty. Dolores's lawyer says a mere association with others doesn't make her a conspirator. A mere association. Then went over her IQ and her second grade ability and everything like that. Also reported that Dolores told the jury that Dolores basically, she's simple and easily guided and this guy over here, Jerome is a big guy. He intimidates her. He then called Jerome a jerk in a windbag. This jerk fucking windbag. - Windbag who controlled the household money. He called his stories ludicrous, including a claim that he had lightly placed the pillow over Gibbs's face, applying only enough oxygen to cut off is not only enough force to cut off his oxygen. - Geez, that's still, that's too much force. - He said if you believe that, then Jerome is the quote, fat Fred Astaire of killers. - Fred, fat Fred Astaire. - He called him. - What is that? - He means he's light on his feet, but he's fat. - Fat Fred Astaire, who was graceful enough to pull off such a delicate maneuver. - Just a little bit. - Oh my God, he also said it's time to wind this up and send my client home. And he said that Mr. Phillips would not, this is, that's Jerome. Jerome would not recognize the truth that it reached up and bit him. - Okay. - So, verdict comes in. The jury deliberates for five hours. Darlene up first and she has found guilty of murder. - Yes. - First degree murder, yeah. Dolores up next, I guess I did an alphabetical order, she is found not guilty. - What? - Not fucking guilty of anything. - Anything. - They found her too dumb to do shit. - I mean, the sister held her his hands down. He just, she just sat at the table, so. - Yeah, but she was involved in the planning. - She was there, she's a part of it, yeah. - Yeah, she didn't say, hey, don't suffocate him. - Yeah, she didn't stop it. - So, they didn't buy arguments from the prosecution that she was an integral part of the conspiracy plot. Her own attorney said innocence is a relative word, obviously. He said that after the ruling. - Yeah. - But she wasn't guilty of what she was charged with, let's say that. They just charged her wrong, that's her own attorney saying that. - They fucked up. - Turing sentencing, Darlene, they said, with anything to say for yourself, she said, I'm not guilty, sir, and then started crying. - Oh boy. The judge says, you ma'am may fuck off life without parole. - Yeah, you can't say what you just said. - No, nope, and she was already in for 50 anyway, so. - It doesn't matter. - Jerome said, when he went to do his sentencing, he said that he had been emotionally and spiritually bankrupt. Yeah, I don't think Dolores could put that phrase together. And he said, please don't give me a long sentence so I can become a productive citizen. He said he planned to go to Bible college to become a teen counselor. - No, stay away from teens. - The judge said, I knew Walter Gibbs in his lifetime. Oh shit. - Oh no. - And he was a gentle soul to snuff out his life as a despicable act to say the least. The least, I'm gonna punish you for taking him away from the face of the earth. I would feel I would have to resign my position as judge if I didn't give you, you sir may fuck off the full 50 years. - Holy. - Is that, that's gonna get turned over on appeal, right? That's a compliment. - It didn't. - No, absolutely not. And his attorney said, there's no question that the facts of this case are as bizarre as any I've seen in 17 years. - I've never heard of that. - I'm with you, bro. And we're, we do this show. - Yeah. - 1991 in October, after all this, there's a ruling on the estate and they say, Dolores, you can't have that shit and it goes to his cousin. - He's good. - They called her a, well, even though she's not convicted, it's a different burden of proof in this situation and they call her a, quote, willful slayer, which is an official term, which means, even though, yeah, I guess that's what OJ was too in the civil case or whatever. So they decide that, yeah, not gonna work. - It's not hers, yeah. - 1992, Darlene appeals and the High Court or the Supreme Court of South Dakota rules unanimously that she received a fair trial and she can keep on fucking off. Two in prison, Dolores out on the street with her daughter. - What the fuck? - That's as crazy a story as we've ever told. - I hope Robin's okay. Jeez, it's a lot. - I know. - If I told everyone I made that up, you'd go, okay, that makes sense. - Of course you did, yeah. - But I'm not that creative, I didn't make that up. That's fucking bonkers. - So there you go. - So there you go. - I'm a murder. - Yes, so please get on whatever app you listen on. Give us a review 'cause that shit's crazy. To give us five stars and say something nice about the show, shut up and give me murder.com is the site. Get your tickets to live shows, especially September 20th in Minneapolis. State theater, be a part of what it will hopefully be our biggest show out. - Unbelievable, yeah. - Also finish up Milwaukee. There's only a few tickets there for that. So grab those, New York, Boston, Austin, Oklahoma City, and Kansas City, more tickets there. Grab those, shut up and give me murder.com. Patreon.com/crimeandsports, $5 or above. Cup of coffee or hundreds of back episodes, plus new ones every week. You know what you want. Get those, grab that and this week, we have fireworks accidents we're gonna talk about 'cause it's 4th of July. And then also, we're gonna get into the real tombstone and talk about some old West shit, and why it ended up on holiday and everything there. So check that out, patreon.com/crimeandsports and you get a shout out at the end of the regular show. Social media, we are @smalltownmurder on Instagram, @smalltownpot on Facebook, @murdersmall on Twitter. So hang out with us there. Keep coming back and hanging out with us all the time. You wanna find us, it's all at shutupandgivememurder.com. That's where you get everything. Oh boy, that's a wild episode. And until next week, everybody, it's been our pleasure. (upbeat music) (upbeat music) If you like small town murder, you can listen early and ad-free now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Prime members can listen early and ad-free on Amazon music. Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey at Wondery.com/survey. From Wondery, I'm Indravarma and this is The Spy Who. This season, we open the file on Oleg Pinkofsky, the spy who diffused the missile crisis. It's 1960 and the world's on the brink of nuclear war. However, one man in Moscow is about to emerge from the shadows with an offer for the CIA. His name is Oleg Pinkofsky. As a Cold War double agent, Pinkofsky wants to supply the US with the Soviet Union's greatest nuclear secrets. But is this man putting his life on the line to save the world? 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