(upbeat music) - Hey everybody, just gonna take a quick break from the show to tell you a little bit about one of my favorite things ever. Audible, listen on Audible, and you'll love it. I take it from us, any advice. Listening on Audible helps your imagination soar. Whether you listen to stories, motivation, expert advice, any genre you love, you can be inspired to imagine new worlds, new possibilities, new ways of thinking, give you some ideas here, find the genres you love and discover new ones along the way. You can explore bestsellers, new releases, also thousands of included audio books and originals that members can listen to, all they want. Literally, just take 'em and get 'em as much as you want with more at it all the time. Audible makes it easy to be inspired and to be entertained as part of your daily routine without needing to set aside extra time. You can do this while you work out. You can do it to the best, you can do it on a plane. I love it so much. 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It's a convenient way to run your household, customized to your family's needs, and the easy way to raise financially smart kids. Get started with green light today and get your first month free at greenlight.com/wondery. Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile. With the price of just about everything going up during inflation, we thought we'd bring our prices down. So to help us, we brought in a reverse auctioneer, which is apparently a thing. Mint Mobile unlimited, premium wireless. I'm gonna get 30, 30, 30, 30. I'm gonna get 20, 20, 20, 20, 20. I'm gonna get 15, 15, 15, 15, just 15 bucks a month. So. I'm gonna try at mintmobile.com/switch. $45 up front for three months plus taxes and fees. Promorate for new customers for limited time. Unlimited more than 40 gigabytes per month. Slow's. Full turns at mintmobile.com. (upbeat music) Hello, everybody, and welcome back to Small Town Murder Express. Yeah, choo-choo. Oh, yay, indeed, Jimmy. Yay, indeed. My name is James Petrogallo. I'm here with my co-host. I'm Jimmy Westman. Thank you, folks, so much for joining us today. All aboard the murder train, hop on, punch your tickets and do all that good old timey stuff 'cause we are pulling away from the station with some crazy, crazy murder today. This is a real weird one we got for you. We're coming hard. We're trying to make every week be better than last week. That's what we want to do. And we've been trying to do for years. And so hopefully we're doing that. But before we get started very quickly, shut up and give me murder.com. The place to go for everything that involves the show. Merchandise, tickets for live shows, especially. Oh, most important. That's right. You're up next, Minneapolis, September 20th. This will be our biggest show ever if you sell this out. You can beat Chicago. It's gonna be great, holy shit. We can't wait. We're so excited. Next night is Milwaukee. And that's at the PAPs, which is a beautiful place. It's just about sold out. So if you want, there's a few tickets left there. You got Minneapolis. It's the state theater and it's a beautiful theater. My God, we're so excited for it. So get your tickets there. Shut up and give me murder.com. Also Oklahoma City, Kansas City. We added extra tickets for that. So those are available now. You got Austin. You got New York. You got Boston. Get them all right now 'cause they're going fast. Thank you so much for doing that. patreon.com/crimeandsports. Bonus material, all sorts of stuff. It's so much flowing like water. Anybody five bucks a month or above. You get everything, the whole back catalog, hundreds of episodes, and new ones every other week. This week is no different. You get one crime in sports, one small town murder, and you get it all. You get it. This week for crime in sports, nothing to do with sports, lot to do with death. It is industrial disasters we're gonna talk about. It's great. Just people getting melted by molten steel. It's insane. Whole reason OSHA exists. It's wild. Oh yeah, and a lot of these are from other countries where you're like, "Oh my God, there's no regulations for that." And then for small town murder, we're gonna talk about a very weird tale, the Cannibal Cop story, if you remember from about 10 years ago, a little bit more. Very weird. Very weird. We'll delve into it. Did this guy actually want to do anything? Was he trying to do something? Was he some kind of weird fantasy writer? We'll figure it all out there. We'll talk about it. patreon.com/crimeandsports is where you get all of that, and you get a shout out at the end of the regular show too. So, that's a lot of fun. You'll get your name mispronounced. Everybody wants that. It's like getting your weight guessed at a carnival. Like, you know they're not gonna get it right. And you know, you're not gonna get the name right either because names are hard. I'm telling you, they are difficult. So I sympathize with you. That said, I think it's time everybody. I think it's time wherever you are. I think it's time to sit back, ignore the surroundings. I don't care where you are. Where are you at? An ear nose and throat doctor's waiting room. It doesn't matter. There's a bunch of people sniffling and snorting around you. I want you to stand up, throw your arms to the sky. And let's all shout. ♪ Shout out and give me murder ♪ Let's do this everybody. Okay. Let's go on a trip, shall we? Let's do it. We are going to New York this week. Oh fantastic. So not too far of a trip for us here. We are going to Walton, New York. Which I have never heard of. No. I was like, oh, Walden? No, no, Walton, it's farther. It's like kind of central New York is the best south central New York, kind of near the Pennsylvania border-ish in that region. We've never really done this region. It's always been the western, over by Rochester and Buffalo. Or we've done one in the capital region, but Long Island, Hudson Valley, that sort of thing. But we're going here. It's about an hour to Binghamton. That's where the area is. About three hours to New York City. If there's no traffic. And then three hours the other way to Penfield, New York. That's our last episode. We were in New York, episode 457, the Kinky Killer. So, yeah, so three hours to New York City, three hours to the Rochester area. So this is kind of right in the middle of the state here. Population 5,260 and yeah, and this is like, kind of like farmland, idyllic. This is like, when you drive through central Pennsylvania, this is what this looks like. It's that sort of thing where, looks like shit would grow there. - Big balls of grass. - Big grass fucking spools. - Yeah, spools of grass you'd call. Looks like a big fruit roll-up, like a big grass roll-up. - Yeah, big grass pinwheel. - There you go. Median household income here, much lower than the national average. It's $45,250. Average is about $70,000. Median home price though, same thing. Waylow, $165,900. - What is happening here? - I'm telling you, this is the land time for got in this area, it's wild. The town motto here, and this might tell you why, 'cause it's sparse, we'll put it that way. The scarecrow capital of the world. So you know there's a lot of fields, 'cause you don't have scarecrows without fields, so that's what it tells you. - That's the last time you saw one of those in the wild. - Just like, not being sarcastic, like a real one. - Yeah, not being ironic. - The one that's actually meant to scare crows away, and I don't know, I had not on a lot of farms, I guess. Maybe. - I haven't seen one in a minute. - It's been a bit, yeah, I gotta say. History of this town, a little bit of history in this town, of this town here. The town, I guess, people came here after the American Revolution, because people were, in the city, were pissed off at each other about some of them were British supporters, and some of them were loyalists to the king, and some of the people were, you know, from colonists, and they didn't like each other. So, some people moved out to here to get away from people they didn't like, essentially. So, yeah, like political movement here. So, the town was formed in 1797 by the New York state legislature. First town meeting was held in a log church in 1890, or 1797. William Walton, who it's named after, was a wealthy New York city merchant who owned a lot of property in New York city. - You told me this was named after Bill Walton? - Yeah, Bill Walton came here with his hook shot and everything. - Hell yeah, a big Irish weirdo. - And he averaged 12 rebounds a game, so we were pretty impressed with the guy, I gotta be honest with you. This is the birth-- - How timely. Rest in feet, sir. - It got to happen, yeah, yeah, he did die. Walton is the birthplace of William B. Ogden. Everybody from here is named William, by the way, it's one of the rules. (laughing) William Ogden is the first mayor of Chicago. So, there you go. So, reviews of this town, four stars. Here we go. Walton is a great neighborhood, free from violence. The people here are very polite and friendly. - Well, that's not true. - That's not true at all. I go to school every day and meet so many nice people that make my day a lot better. This is a child. There's such great traveling access. As you can go anywhere. It takes forever to get anywhere. - Oh, there's a road, Jim. - There's roads out. They have roads out of this town. I love how four stars, we have roads. Hey, look at that. You can get out. The scenery is very beautiful and relaxing. I sit in the bus every day on my way to school, admiring the beautiful trees and plants and buildings in Walton. - What a fucking nerd. - This person just stares out the, yeah. They're not trying to make friends. Fuck around, burn the seat with a lighter and make a smiley face. They're not doing anything that you're supposed to do on a bus. - Just smoke a cigarette, bud. - Yeah, you can do it in the back row with the window open. We used to smoke weed back there, for Christ's sake. The neighborhood does have some loudness when it comes to cars. During the night, the car can be very loud, waking me up in my sleep, the car. There's a car that goes by that wakes me up. That's what the one star taken away from. There's one person down in the loud car. - Somebody bought some Borla exhaust and it's annoying. - Wow, shit. Two stars, Walton is a small country town. It has a very friendly, homey feeling. There are many active citizens who play a vital part in the community. What it needs, though, here we go, is to upgrade, to have small business growth. There are not many job opportunities available. Many graduates have to leave the area to go to school and then seek a job because it's a small fucking town. It's a farm town. If you want a farm, there's a place. And its location has like, it's made it nearly impossible for the economic growth. It's so far from everywhere. - Yeah, it's in the middle of nowhere. And that's all it is, is there's just, where are you going to work? - It's kind of awesome, but it sucks. - It's nice if you work from home, you know what I mean? Like, you know, if you can zoom to your job, then great. Yeah, fuck it. - It's a well-paying job, but if it's a fucking shit job, then you're stuck, man. - They're kind of stuck there. Things to do, here it is, the porch fest. - Oh, yeah. - Porch fest. - Porch sittin' capital of the world. - Well, porch fest concerts are held throughout North America in over 125 locations, and this year, Delaware County residents will have the opportunity to experience it right in their backyard. - Oh, they got their own. - A variety of musicians will perform on front porches or at other venues in the area, and visitors can walk from venue to venue to experience different music genres and performers. Now, there's not a lot of different music genres. I'll put it that way. - No, it's a lot of country. - Mainly one particular music genre, but they have all of this. The open horse show they have, that is not music, that's just a show. The open goat show, which sounds crazy. - Don't know, yeah. - Crazy, man. Vesper service is one of the bands that we'll be playing. Then they have an open meat goat show. So you got that. - Oh, oh, meat, M-E-E-T. - No, no, no, meat. Like these are goats that we kill for meat. These are like goats you eat, these goats. There's a whole exhibition on canning tomatoes. So if you wanna figure that out, we're gonna talk to, or not talk to here from Buffalo Barfield, which is a band. There's just an illusionist in the entertainment for it. Not even tell you who he is. He's pulling shit out of hats though. There is also the drift woods, and then it says country in parentheses. We inferred, thank you, drift woods. - Not rappers? - No, I would expect that. The Nate Gross Band, who is blues and southern rock, will be there. - Yeah, yeah. - The singing oldies Mary Francis Perricone will be there. - God damn it. - And finally, the Beatle brothers, B-E-A-D-L-E, the Beatle brothers, who sing today's country and more. - Oh, yeah. - They claim to be high energy. - Also yesterday's. I'm probably a day before that. - They're gonna make, and also tomorrow's. They're gonna get your boots to tap in, I'd say. - You betcha. - High energy, and also cowboy circus will be there. Whatever the fuck that is. - Clowns for the rodeo? - I think it's a band. - Oh, nice. - Yeah, it's a band named Cowboy Circus. - Can I ask like, rodeo cowboys? - So, that said, if there's no murders at this event of the sides, goats. - There should be. - There should be. - I don't like, meet your dinner. - I don't want that. - I don't like that at all. - They also have meet like for cows too. So, that said, let's talk about a murder. What do you say here? Let's do it. Here we go, let's introduce ourselves to some people. Howdy folks, here we go. Hi there, Randy Sundstrom, step on up. Randy Sundstrom, born in 1963, Randy is. Randy is from Roscoe. - Was that right? - No, another town around here. Yeah, up here. He's one of three children. His parents were farmers. - Yeah. - Charles and Florence. - Okay. - Florence the farmer. Yep, he joined the army in 1981 after he graduated from high school. Served two years in the army 'cause there's not, didn't really know what to do. One of those people who, doesn't really have any interest in college at the time and he's more into mechanical things and not a lot of jobs. So they joined the army and there's a couple of years to kill to figure it out. So he then came home and operated a small engine repair shop. So that's what he was doing. - Small engine repair shop. - Yeah, small, basically it's the place where Billy Bob Thornton works in sling blade, I picture. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's birds and straddens. It's not like small 273. - It's like lawn mowers, I feel like. - Yeah. - You know, I'll get that mower humming again. You know, and then you give him, you pay him in French fried potatoes and it's all good. - It's a good day. - It's a good day there. 1989 here, he's got several girlfriends, Randy. Randy's. - Oh, good for you. - At the same time or anything, Randy. You know, he's got a girl here, girl there. He's, the ladies don't hate him, put it that way. - Okay. - You know what I mean? Handsome guy and everything. He ends up. - This has got his own job. - He's got his own company. He ends up going and working for other places we'll talk about. I don't think this really, as in sling blade, which it didn't look like a real lucrative business going on there. - It doesn't. - He's in like one lawn mower every three days. I don't know how much that you can charge for that, but. - It looks like they bring the mower in and he says, yeah, give me a couple of days with it. Then in two days, he says, nope, flat broken, can't even repair it. They're like, all right, then you just hang on to that. I'll go buy a new one. And then he hangs it on the wall. - He has a storage, like a storage room full of all lawn mowers and he lets. - Irreperable shit. - He lets mentally challenged murderers sleep in it. (laughing) Which makes a lot of sense. - That he uses them to make weapons. - If you've never seen sling blade, we just described it. - That's it. - But it's a great movie. That's the crazy part. It's a fantastic, it's a great movie. So watch it if you haven't seen it. You're looking for something good. So 1989, he's got this girlfriend and he knocks her up. Yes, gets her pregnant and father's a child with her. This is in the '89-ish. So it's a daughter, her name's Mindy. And he ends up just taking off when she's about a year old. - He's done. - He's done, well, not just, not to run away from the child, but for another woman. He meets a woman that he likes and he moves like 30 miles away but never talks to her, sees that kid ever again. - 30 miles down the road and never sees it. - Well, she'll tell you exactly how, but basically that she like didn't even, she got like a couple of birthday cards here and there, sent her a gift card for high school graduation. That's pretty much it, like nothing else. Like a necklace for a birthday one time. Like would not like never like- - That's your dad. - Never picked her up or like give her a ring or nothing. - Oh my God. - So that's rough, man. - Yeah, no ice cream, just those two birds. - Oh no, no, not even a pick up and we'll stop on the way and get you a necklace and get some ice cream. It just came in the mail. She was like, oh, I guess that's from dad. So the woman that he left for is named Debra Ryman and R-I-E-M-A-N is her last name. She's a couple of years younger, but same ballpark. She's also from the area around here. Her parents are William and Sandra and she has three siblings, two sisters and a brother and she graduated from high school and she grows up in Walton. So this is like her main hometown and graduates from high school in Walton in 1984. And so Randy takes off, okay. Walton is about 30 miles away from Livingston Manor, which is where his girlfriend and his baby are. So the daughter here said, quote, "I didn't really know him. "He wasn't around until I was about two. "That's when he met Debra and moved to Walton "and I didn't see him again." - Ramblin' man. - That's it, he sent if he's a Rolling Stone. He sent a few birthday cards, a necklace for Christmas one year and a gift card when I graduated from high school. That was it. That's the sum total of his parental involvement in her life. - That's her relationship with her dad. - Wow, that is rough, man. I hope she's getting some therapy there. She's gonna end up with an asshole. So she said from our belief, from everybody's belief, it was Debra that kept him away from me. So that's what everybody says. Debra did not want him having anything to do with that daughter. And he and Debra don't have any kids either. So I don't know if she just isn't interested in kids and doesn't want kids around. - Yeah, it's not even that he's too busy with a bunch of other kids that he can't express it. - Like we have three kids or I want you to pay attention to my kids or whatever it was, it's not like that. So these two end up buying a house. They end up buying a farmhouse, an old little farmhouse built in 1900 on a half acre lot and it's a little tiny place, a little two bedroom place and not a big place, but they fix it up all nice how they like it. It's an 1884 South River Road in Walton. And later on, I'll give you the Zillow stats on that at the end. - Oh yeah. - 'Cause I know everyone's, our people are like, let me look that up. - I'm gonna do this. - Yeah. So Debra gets a job working with the Delaware County social welfare agency. She works there for years and years. Randy for a long time commuted to Onyanta, which is a good distance away. He worked in the warehouse for Drogan's home furnishings, which I've never heard of. Drogan's, that's a beautiful couch. What is that? Oh, it's a drogan. - I got it from drogan. - I got it from you. - What? - Yeah, it sounds disgusting, right? Sounds like there's like jizz in it. I don't want that couch. - Sounds like everything is ugly. - Everything's ugly. Everything's green. - Drogan's, we specialize in the hideous. - Drogan's for shitty motel furniture. That's what they make. Motel furniture where bodily fluid stains won't show up. - That's, they have a special lab. - Yeah, they have a special lab with like they put together patterns that don't show anything. They're like, we finally did it. This doesn't show blood, mud, semen, anything. It's amazing. - Like the most unsalable furniture. - It's disgusting. Then he ended up getting a job at Scott Machine Corp, which is an engraving place. They do a lot of engraving. So, and that's in Walton. So he didn't have to commute anymore. The place things remembered sends all their shit. - Essentially, yeah, that. 'Cause yeah, the guy at the mall isn't fucking doing it. - He doesn't do that. - When you go up there, there's a 21 year old chick selling you a Zippo. She's not gonna go in the back and engrave a message to your grandfather in there. - Oh, we're gonna throw this to FedEx. We're gonna take it to Scots in New York. - You're gonna take it to some hillbilly and he's gonna carve it in it. That's how this is gonna work. So by the late '90s, this couple gets into some, they get into some weird shit, man. Normally on this show, when I say they get into some weird shit, it's like the occult or they're having orgies or they're having like meth sex parties in a barn or something that are sponsored by a local soda company or some weird shit. We get all sorts of weird shit. - Bloodletting. - Yeah, they're doing something even stranger, in my opinion. They begin an obsession with growing giant pumpkins. Didn't expect that, did ya? - Trying to figure out how big they can get to that one. - If you want to know where giant pumpkins come from, here is where they come from. This area is big in the giant vegetable fruit growing. - Really? - Absolutely grow giant watermelons, but like competition level. - Yeah. - You know, shit for just weight and stuff like that. This became their whole life, like. - They want the best, biggest pumpkin. - Remember when we had the guy in the box there that got found in the box 40 feet away from the trailer, that lady, and they got real into that like, that shooting thing, like the target speed target shooting where they dressed up. - Western period. - Yeah, that's what these people do, except with pumpkins. So, it's very strange here. Randy was the founder and president of the New York State Giant Pumpkin Growers Association, the NYS GPGA. - That's a, oh, it's a lot of letters on your shirts. - Randy, you should have picked a better acronym there, I think. That's not an acronym that you want to have there. Yeah, that's what they do. In 2004, he ended up telling the Daily Star newspaper that he found pumpkin growing habit forming. 'Cause you get obsessed with growing the next one and the next one. And he said their goal, they said in 1999, they set a goal to break the state record for pumpkins. That's what they're gonna do. They're gonna be pumpkin champions. I will go over all the pumpkin stuff, don't worry. First of all, you need a pumpkin mentor. - Yeah, who's the big pump? - Yeah, you can't just fly blind in this pumpkin fucking world, can you? No, they have Bill Bobier, that's their pumpkin mentor. Well, he's also owns a chimney cleaning business in the area as well. So that's what he does for his job. But he also-- - He's doing a Disney job as head gourd? - He owns the business. I don't know if he gets all dusty and does fucking dances in the street with streeters. I'm not sure if that happens or not. It could, don't get me wrong, I'm not putting it past him. - The shitty umbrellas. - The shitty umbrellas and just covered and soot. But he met them and when Randy called him and said, "Listen, man, you don't know me, "but I could really use some pumpkin guidance "and maybe you could like hook me up." And the guy was like, "No problem." And he became their pumpkin mentor and close friend. - I'm real. - Yeah, he's the pumpkin whisperer of this guy, he's gonna do it. They would have barbecues at each other's homes and spend many days together at pumpkin way-offs. That was-- - Way-offs. - Everybody's weekend consists of getting trailers, loading your giant fucking pumpkins onto them and then trucking them to a way off and hanging out. That's their social life, they do it every weekend. - Oh, boy. - Yeah, every Christmas Randy bought two collectible jack knives with pumpkin motifs. He would give the same one, identical knives and he would give one to Bill and then keep one for himself. So every year they had like a little, one of those little heart necklaces. - He's matching knives, yeah. - He put them together and it says, "Bill and Randy forever is really cute." That's really cute, isn't it? No, no, durable. - Jack knives, low. - Wow, matching blades. - Matching blades, let's do it. Bill described Deborah as always happy and smiling and as Randy as a really great guy. Just a terrific guy. Bill said, "We never saw issues, so to speak, "like between the couple. "The couple was always getting along." She said, "They always just seem perfect for each other. "They were both into gardening, do it yourself. "They were home bodies, home-steading type of things. "It seemed like they really enjoyed doing stuff together, "growing together, canning together, cooking together. "It's their whole life, they don't have any other activities "that they do." He said, "Randy was the type of guy "that didn't burden anyone with his problems. "He was outgoing with his friends, "but he kept any problems to himself." - He's a gentleman. - Yeah, he's the type of guy. That's a guy that people like generally. - It's a good friend. - Yeah, keep your personal shit out of this, we're having a beer. - He's one of these guys, good guy, real funny, good time, wouldn't say shit if he had a mouthful. That's a, you know, some old redneck would say about him. - That's exactly what they like. So, their religion here, let's talk about, okay. Not only do they have pumpkins, but dozens of tomato plants and other vegetables as well, they grow blueberries and grapes. This is not a half acre, this isn't a lot of land, too. It'd be growing all the shit. - Yeah, are they praying to a sun god? - I don't know, they didn't hang out at bars, didn't go to church, didn't go to, you know, social events, other than that, didn't go out to like dinner, just pumpkins and pumpkin related things. Their friend Bill said they gardened, that was their religion. - Gardening. - Gardening. - That's a religion I can get by. - Oh, shit grows. - Yeah. - You're getting-- - Something happened. - There's a definite result. Giant pumpkin. - For sure, yeah. - Giant pumpkin, that's something. - I got a pie. - That's amazing. 2007, they participate in the PBS, I believe it was on PBS, on the documentary, "Lords of the Gord." - Oh, boy. - Yeah, yeah, this is one of those extreme, extreme pumpkin-ing, man. So they say in this, "Lords of the Gord, viewers encounter offbeat "and endearing growers who tend to pamper "and coddle their plants as if they are children, "cokesing them to grow to unnatural size." - Crapes. - One pumpkin person said, "I can't go anyplace. "Someone will ask me, 'How's your pumpkin doing?'" He's a pumpkin celebrity. He's like, "I can't even walk down the street. "People just come up to me with pumpkin questions." They said they have to test the soil frequently, you have to nourish it, water, fertilizer, and everything has to be measured very precisely when your pumpkin's growing. They said that it turns, the hefty squash turned gingerly and supported carefully when you're moving it. - Yeah, you gotta roll it, yeah. - We gotta do that. Some devoted disciples tuck their pumpkins in with blankets every night and greet them enthusiastically with a tape measure every morning. - What? - Let's see how big you are, little pumpkin. It sounds like a comic book villain like growing something that's gonna eat the city and it's like, "Oh, there you are, my darling. "Look at you, getting hungry." - Yeah. - You're gonna eat everybody. - See more of them even measure-- - It's the first thing I thought of was for Moranis doing that too. - It's not out there checking it. - Nope, there are rumors of creative techniques used by determined growers. They're on the juice, man. (laughing) They're ridin'. This is crazy. - That's not natural, look at all the pimples on. - It looks like, look at that fuckin' pumpkin. It looks like Barry Bond's head. What are we talkin' about here? - A lot of bumps on that gourd. - Oh, that's not right. People who'll go to any lengths to raise a winner, spraying the fruit with milk. - Not milk, oh god, now that's uncalled for. Or injecting it directly into the flesh, cradling the pumpkin in its own hammock, talking to it. How's that illegal, is that? That should be standard. - What's the problem? - Surrounding the pumpkin patch with end-to-end mouse traps. So they can't-- - Oh, to keep things from eatin' it, yeah. - Keep things, there'd be a lot of scared crows here, I bet. - Oh, you bet. - I bet they have a ton of them. Lord of the gourd follows Joe Pukos and fellow competitors, Bill Bobier, that's their guy, Bernie Potter, Deb and Randy Sunstrum, and Matt Verschneider, and through the final harrowing days of harvest, and then on the long journey, cross-state with the bulging behemoth strapped into the backs of their pickups. - Yeah, you gotta be careful with it then, you don't want to hit a bump and crack that thing. - No, fuck it all up, you gotta have all these blankets under it. (upbeat music) Hey everybody, just gonna take a quick break from the show and tell you about a very cool sponsor, Rocket Money. And I've used this, and I've said it before on previous ads, but they found something that I had been paying for, for 11 years. I've been paying for something for 11 years. - Boy did they get ya. - For no reason, and they, it was in there, I was like, oh my, and they canceled 'cause I'm, that's the other thing too, I'm like, now how do I cancel this, what do I do? 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SimplySafe is the best, and we've trusted SimplySafe to protect our home and our studios and everything else for years, and you know us, we're weird with research, I've researched, they are the best, by the way. - Yeah. - Protect your home this summer with 20% off any new SimplySafe system when you sign up for fast protect monitoring. Just visit simplysafe.com/small. That's simplysafe, S-I-M-P-L-I-Safe.com/small. There's no safe, like SimplySafe. Now back to the show. Pukos is a contender for the top prize until last minute rumors circulate that another grower has a pumpkin that will break the world record. At the Cooperstown way off, the massive gourds are hoisted one by one to the scales and the moment of truth arrives. This is a versioniter says, you go to enough competitions and you can't help it. You're addicted. You do anything you can to hopefully come back with a larger one next year. This is my penis I'm talking about. Now pumpkins is a whole different thing. - Right. - So in 2008, the sunstrums grew a pumpkin that weighed, how much do you think it weighed? I didn't know anything about this. - Like I'd guess, three, four hundred pounds. - Fourteen hundred fifty nine pounds. That's what they grew. - A fifteen hundred, how do you fucking move them? - That's what I mean. You need like a crane, they pick it up. - Yeah, you gotta have a hoist. - A hoist and everything else. That was 10th in the United States that year, by the way. - There were nine bigger. - Nine bigger. I have a list of biggest pumpkins ever here. - Oh, I can't wait. - Quick sidetrack. In 1900, the biggest pumpkin was 400 pounds. - Yeah. - That's it. It quickly grew by 1990. The biggest pumpkin was 816 pounds. - Double. - So it took 90 years to get to that. But then it's gonna double from that real quick. Doesn't take 90 years. Then by 1999, 1331 pounds. - Wow. - By 2000 and beyond now, a 2006, 1500, two pounds. - Fuck. - By 2014, 2,323 pounds. - Who the hell grew that? - Well, I'll tell you right now. Benny Meyer from Switzerland grew that. - Nobody knows him. - Nope. And then finally, Travis Geiger from Minnesota in 2023 grew a 2,749 pound pumpkin. That is the current world record. - Nobody knows him. - Beating out Stefano cut Rupi from Italy, who has a 2,703 pounder. - And he is fear. - He is fucking young. - He got some kind of a bitch, he's fucking screaming. - Throwing thing. - Throwing shit. - That is so big. - That's so much shit. - Calls the pumpkin a discratzied. - Discratzied, huh? - Oh. - Kickin' holes a bit. - Son of a bitch. - All this time for nothing. - No, for nothing. - Travis Geiger says that he grows pumpkins. He named the giant pumpkin before it, you know, set the record. He named it Michael Jordan for its perfectly round shape, like a big basketball. - Oh, and it looks great. - And it looks great. He said the greatest basketball player of all time is now the greatest pumpkin of all time. What the fuck are you talking about? - What is he talking about? - I don't know. He said I thought it was going to be a basketball round, but it's not, it grew into this. So there you go, he beat it. So he, that was his third time pumpkin, he hauled a pumpkin all the way from Minnesota to one of the pumpkin way-offs in Half Moon Bay, which is south of San Francisco. He drove a pumpkin 2,000 miles fuckin' in the day. - Is it, it was south, is it, hmm. - The grand prize he won, though, $30,000. - Okay. - That's worth it. How long does that take? - A long time, and you have to have a day job. He operates a gas fire table business. What the fuck is that? - Oh, he makes more propane tanks in it. - Yeah, yeah, for your patio. - Yeah, pretty good. - Pretty good, yeah, yeah. - There you are, let's be honest. - Aren't you a pinman, it's a clatch thing. - Fuckin' douchey, the hell outta here with those things. - It's nice to have a little table out front, it's not like it. - Oh, there's, it's always like douchey restaurants that have them and their patios. - It's useless, I mean, you're not putting, yeah, you're not putting marshmallows on it. - No. - It doesn't warm. - It doesn't do anything. It just sits outside of a home to sweets while you fucking walk through the door. - Well, you burn propane. - He did say they, 30,000 isn't even the biggest deal. It's that they gave me a jacket. It's like for the master, but probably more important. - He's got his orange jacket. - It's gotta be an orange jacket, right? It has to be bright orange. - Fuckin' better be. - It has to be, it has to be. So anyway, that's what's going on here. That's what they're doing. That's 2007, 2009, they're growing this crazy pumpkin. - It should culminate in like a giant carving of that thing for Halloween, right? - With Michael Jordan's face in it, absolutely. - Fuck, yeah, you can put some sick designs in that. - Yeah, do the Jumpman logo. There you go. - That's amazing. - That's what it should be. So you think everything's going great for them. In 2009, they're, you know, 1,400 pound pumpkins. - It's incredible, yeah. - It's going great. 2010 comes around. You'd imagine this couple is just cooking along, man. Everything's-- - Oh boy. - The pies they have. Pumpkin pies coming out of their ass, just all over the place. - You just sell that thing to Costco, right? To make their pies. - Just boom, all of it. That's all your pies. There you go. - There you go, 3,000 pounds. Get after it. - Now, February 19th, 2010, Randy takes off. Come on. - You turn here too? - No, he's gone, takes off. - Yeah, Randy's a, he's a bounder, boy. He's, when he's done, he's done, apparently. - Yeah. - And she tells all the friends, all the whole pumpkin people, Randy left me. - Yeah. - She's upset, she comes up, people are hugging her, they feel terrible, and she said to one friend, quote, "He ran off with another woman. "Believe me, you don't know the real Randy. "Good riddance." - Again. - Done, done with him. Yeah, he's a scumbag and he's running away and he made me think that he was interested in pumpkins and he's really not. So, he's out. She told everybody, coworkers, neighbors, friends, his job, 'cause they called the house and he goes, he didn't show up there either. Well, yeah, he left me 'cause he's a dirt bag and he took off. - Yeah. - Yeah, even, she'll have a boyfriend, she even tells the story of the boyfriend's mom and all this, her, his whole family, you know, I had this husband, we were one of the lords of the gourd and yeah, he took off on me. She then tells everybody too that she found out that his new girlfriend is pregnant as well. So, that's-- - He wanted the kids after all. - Yeah, he knocks somebody else off, took off and then also, on top of that, he said, she said, I'm happy he's gone 'cause he used to beat me. - Andy was aggressive? - And he would beat me and he took off now. So, good riddance, fuck him, you know what I mean? And Bill was like, what are we talking about here? My pumpkin jackknife brother, there's no way. - Yeah, my guy, he's my guy. - My pumpkin brother, yeah. - He said that she pretty much told us that Randy had met someone else, she got pregnant and he'd just taken off to start a new life. We thought maybe he was embarrassed or whatever. I always felt that when it was time for him to get in touch, he would, like-- - Yeah, yeah. - I don't know. - It's hard to tell your friends, I accidentally left one in somebody. - Well, yeah, especially to the pumpkin friends 'cause those are like both of their friends. Those aren't like his friends, that's like their social group. So, you might just run from everyone, if that happens. - For sure. - So, Bill said he saw Deborah a few times after that on a visit, once in a pumpkin way off in Cooperstown. He tried to stay in contact, but she just kind of would change her phone number all the time and just didn't really, didn't stay in touch with any of the pumpkin people. Just kind of drift it off, yep, on her own. Bill said that it just didn't seem like the same her that she was very upset and very bitter with Randy. She was bitter and she was always smiling before that. Now, he said she seemed wrathful as the way he put it. - And the fact that he can't be around him too, I can't be around him, it's shameful. A man just left me. - Yeah, that's the other thing. - So embarrassing. - And if you go hang out with Randy now, now if you were a couple and you hung out with them, now your wife's pissed at you, what are you doing hanging out with him, so it's tough. And he said, this is Bill, he said, quote, "She said you don't know the real Randy." And she told my wife a story about him coming home late one night. She had the door locked, so he tried to break into the house. She said he hit her and she hit back on the arm with a bat is what she said. And that was the final blow up and then he left. He was like, "Fuck you, I'm out of here." Now, he takes off. No one, Randy's got no family, by the way. - Really? - So that's what I mean. It's not even like you could call his mom and be like, where the fuck's Randy? I need to get like a bill to him or something. His parents are both dead. He's got two siblings, but he doesn't keep in contact with him. He hasn't talked to either one of them in years. He hasn't talked to anybody except for Deborah and the pumpkin people. - Doesn't even talk to his own daughter. - His daughter, his brother's nothing. And they both live out of state too. So him not contacting them isn't anything new. And his few close friends are their close friends. So they know of Deborah, but he took off and he hasn't talked to them either. Now, one neighbor of theirs, a guy named Al Boudin. And he's a neighbor who runs the Walton Pistol Club, which is a gun club in his barn in his yard. That's where the club is. So a few weeks ago, we had a guy that ran a gun shop out of his garage, Gary's guns and stuff. And then now we got this guy who runs a pistol club out of the barn. - That doesn't seem dangerous. - Hey, you know what I mean? No, it's fine. That's what I'm saying. It's odd. - I don't care how safe you preach it. - Yeah, that seems small. It can't be that big, right? - How big of a fucking barn can it be? Honestly, I mean, honestly, how big of a barn can it be? Are we firing guns off? Or is it just a bunch of tables where guys come and sit and talk about guns and get away from the wives for a while? - Are we firing guns indoors? - I sincerely hope we're not firing guns in a barn. I really hope not. - So strange. - How many people are remembered too? Like was there 50 people firing guns off in a barn? That's insane. - This is soon going to be a deaf society. - It is. Yeah, it's exactly what's going to go down right now. They're all going to shoot each other in a mess. - And lose their hearing over it. - It's just too close. That's all. It's fine to go to a gun club and shoot things. It's too close. It's not-- - Is it BB gun? A paintball? - Oh, no, no. - It's real weapons. - Al Boudin, this guy. He says that, quote, "I don't believe in spreading rumors." - Oh. - Now, what's he going to do right now? - Spore rumors. - Tell you some rumors. He said, "But this is not rumor. I know it because I saw it." - Oh. - Okay. He said that Deborah twice ran across the street to his house seeking refuge after she was, quote, "Beat to hell by her husband." - Oh. - Yeah. He said that he couldn't recall the dates, but he knows that one of the incidents was reported to local law enforcement. I tried to find any record of that. I couldn't, but I don't have all the police files. So that's a separate thing. So he's gone. Deborah doesn't know what to do. She kind of stops growing her pumpkin. She stops with all that stuff. And she gets a new job, you know? She starts working at a grocery store as a cashier at the big M supermarket. That's where she's working. The owner, Jim Groff, said that she was a hard worker and a favorite of all the customers. Her line was the longest 'cause people like talking to her and all that kind of thing. Spring of 2012, she moves on and finds a new boyfriend 'cause fuck, it's been a year. He's gone. You know, he's probably bouncing a baby on his knee by now. - Well, he has to be, yeah. - So she meets Dominic Bosco. Just like the chocolate shit there. B-O-S-C-O, and he goes by Nick. Nick Bosco over here. Nicky Bosco, good to see you. Nicky Bosco sounds like a nickname that someone in the mob gives you. You know what I mean? It's Nicky Bosco over here. Yeah, 'cause he likes black chicks. Nicky Bosco, you know what I mean? That's like, that's a mob name they would give you. So he's about 50 years old. He's a couple years older, but still in the ballpark. He graduated, he's from Long Island, this guy. He doesn't even live in this town. His family has a house here and he comes here all the time to stay there 'cause he likes it. So he graduated from Bellport High School in Long Island and he would always come out to Walton as much as possible, as Brother said. His brother said he loved the outdoors. We grew up in a farm-like atmosphere on Long Island. Our father raised cows. It was very rural back then. 'Cause we're talking in the '50s and '60s before Long Island became all the suburbs. It was farmland and then they slowly knocked that farmland down and put houses there instead but called us action shit. So he said that he began dating Deborah and he was pretty happy. He lived in Long Island, but Walton was like a second home for the whole family because when they were a teenager, the father, John, he bought a house there. He bought a property up there on John Lockwood Road off of the East River Road and it's a couple miles from Walton Village. It's kind of out there on its own little area. So it's not a heavy populated area. So they built a house out there 'cause they bought the land and they built a house out there. And over the years, they would come out there as a family all the time and they bought 200 acres, 200 acres altogether. So they kept buying more parcels and more parcels. They built up 200 acres around this nice little house that they built up there where they could all come and spend some time in nature. So Dominic worked for a tree service on Long Island. This fucking guy loves trees, loves them, wants to be among them, he wants to trim them, he loves them. When work would slow down in the winter 'cause in New York in the winter, there's no tree people. They're just dead anyway, so they'll be back in the spring. So he would spend more time at the Walton house and that's how that would go. His brother Patrick had got the house from the parents and the one friend said, Nick was always up there helping Patrick out around the house. And that one of the visits he came up was when he met Deborah and they got along and they started going out. So then he was spending even more time up there. So now the brother, this is Nick's brother, John Bosco, John Bosco, Jr., he told his mother that my mom had a conversation with Deborah at some point. She said she'd been in an abusive relationship that her ex-husband used to hit her and that she said her ticket out was when he fell for someone else and took off. So they fell bad for her. They were like, oh, that's, well, we're glad you found Nikki Bosco here. He'll be great for it. - We're a lot of people running off, man. - People are just running away from everybody. So February 2013, she loses her job at the supermarket, which seems crazy, customer favorite while she losing her job for. She is accused of stealing a purse that a customer had left at the store. She stole it rather than turning it into lost and found. She just took it and we don't know why, we don't know what the deal is with this, but she did and the person pressed charges too. They pressed charges and she's charged with larceny, but she fails to appear in court. She doesn't show up. - What? - Doesn't show up, so they issue a bench warrant for her. So she still doesn't show up. So about a week later, this is February 19th, 2013, actually the three year anniversary of the day Randy left. The day Randy took off, the cops go looking for it to serve her with this bench warrant for stealing a purse. This is, it's literally a larceny charge. It's a misdemeanor. It's nothing huge. - So sad. - She didn't like wrestle it out of an old lady's hand and then push her to the ground or anything. It was just, it was left behind, she took it. So the law enforcement here, they track her to a house on a dead end road on the other side of Walton at 294 John Lockwood Road where she was staying with Nikki Bosco at his family house up there. They knock on the door and they said they expected a very routine, it's a larceny charge. - Get in, let's get out of here. - You're gonna come in, we're gonna fingerprint you, you're gonna go home. They're not gonna be bail, there's not gonna be any of that shit. Like it's gonna be a quick thing instead. - Real dumb. - Yeah, petty, it's a petty theft, it's nothing. So they learned that that's where she spent time. So about 2 p.m. middle of the afternoon, you'll be back before dinner, don't worry about it. Walton police chief and investigator Carl Vox of the Delaware County Sheriff's office, they go to serve the warrant. She answered the door, they told her we have to arrest you. Obviously, we have that charge, you missed your course. - The way this works. - You got to arrest you, you can't trade pumpkins for favors, we're sorry. She was in her nightgown and stuff still. Like she had like a robe and nightgown, she was just lounging around. So she said, is it all right? Can you get, at least give me a minute to put like normal clothes on? So I don't have to like go into town to the police station like this. And they said, yeah, sure, go ahead. The cops said, we just received information that she might be at this residence, which was a seasonal residence. She initially answered the door, but she was only dressed in a night shirt, so she asked the cops if she could, you know, have a minute to get changed. And that's when the lieutenant says, quote, she shut the door and it was within a minute they heard two shots. Yeah, not expected. This is a larceny arrest. This is nothing, two shots. So they said, what the fuck? They burst in through the door, they kick it open, they run in there. As they're charging upstairs, the fucking house is on fire. It's in full fucking blaze. Within a minute, she set the house on fire and two shots are taken in a minute. - Wow. - It's in a blaze, they're trying to fucking get to her upstairs. - Yeah, two shots. That's rare for a suicide. - Well, the first shot, do you want to talk about being an asshole? - Yeah. - It's one thing to kill yourself. The first shot, she shot her dog. - What? - With a 30/30 rifle. - Well, to make sure that it works, like what the fuck did she do? - Australian Shepherd named Cheryl. - Oh, God. - Who, by the way, was her constant companion always walking the dog, always. I guess she figured if I'm going, if I'm going, no one can take care of her. So then she turned the gun on herself and shot herself with the same 30/30, which takes talent because that's a lot of rifle. It's a lot of rifle. You gotta have a certain length of arm to be able to pull that off. So the cops, as they're trying to get up there, the flames are too much. They can't get up there. They just see the bodies and they're like, we can't fucking do anything. They run out of the house before they're overtaken by the flames, the entire house burns to shit. It burns to cinders, leaving only the wraparound deck, a fireplace chimney and some cordwood near the door, which is amazing because that's the firewood. - That's sort of poor. - The only thing that didn't burn. - It's about some shitwood. - The firefighters did save a detached garage from complete ruin, so there's that. - Unbelievable, over a purse. - Over a fucking purse. So they said the rifle was located in the residence on Lockwood Road and that the residence was owned by a family member of Nick Bosco, that's what they when asked about the rifle ownership. So now she's dead, the dog's dead, which I know the dog's dead and that's horrible, we're all very sad. - The Nick's family lost their fucking house. - They lost their house. Where the fuck is Nick, by the way? Because Nick, where was he in this? It's his house, where's he? - The robots have gotten pretty good at what they do, but they can't pour passion into what they make or give them a human touch. - On Etsy, you can find something handmade, handpicked, or designed by independent sellers who pull from their unique experiences and bring their whole hearts to their small shops. Shops that prove that when you do what you love, you can help others find things that bring more joy to their lives. Discover hand-blown glassware, reclaimed furniture, personalized jewelry, hand-picked vintage pieces, custom-designed artwork, and so much more. The fingerprints Etsy sellers leave behind reveal who they are, human beings determined to make human connections. So the next time you're shopping for yourself or someone special, choose extraordinary items handmade, handpicked, or designed by small businesses. Keep commerce human, discover small businesses on Etsy. 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This season Instacard has your back-to-school, as in they've got your back-to-school lunch favorites, like snack packs and fresh fruit, and they've got your back-to-school supplies, like backpacks, binders, and pencils. And they've got your back when your kid casually tells you they have a huge school project due tomorrow. Let's face it, we were all that kid. So first call your parents to say, "I'm sorry," and then download the Instacard app to get delivery in as past as 30 minutes all school year long. Get a $0 delivery fee for your first three orders while supplies last, minimum $10 per order. Additional term supply. - Well, he's a big guy too. Nick, big rugged, he's a tree guy, for Christ's sake. 225 pound, sturdy cat. Well, when they clear everything off, they find his body at the bottom of the basement steps. - He's dead. - He's dead. And they said, this is his brother, said he didn't take this while looking straight at the person who killed him. He would have been able to defend himself. That's why we think she got him while he was sleeping or with poison, something very premeditated. They find out that he was dead up to three days before this fire was set. - What the shit? - So they knocked on the door and she said, "Oh, fuck, it's over." They're gonna find that, they're gonna find that. They said we're here to arrest you for the purse, but she's like, eventually-- - Did they find the body? - Yeah, it's over, so she freaked out. They said the investigator said they hadn't been able to determine the cause of death for him 'cause of the extensive burns, but they had been able to determine it happened days before the fire. They know exactly how many days. So then the state police find out that she's married because they're looking for someone next to kin to-- - You gotta tell somebody about this, yeah. - You gotta make a notification. So they're like, "Oh shit, she has a husband. "Let's find him to notify him." So they can find Randy if no one else can, and they can't find him though. They're doing checks, they're doing electricity bills, everything, and they're trying to find, no one can find him. And they said, "Well, where the fuck is he?" And then they found out that quote, it had been about since 2010 since he was last seen. So we wound up looking into Deborah Sunstrom's residence. The cops said, "Initially, we weren't looking for his body. "Initially, we were investigating the fire at the house, "and one thing led to another." This is a three days after the fire, police trying to find him, so they bring a cadaver sniffing dog to their house, Randy and Deb's house. Sniffing all around and the dog notifies on a barrel behind the house. Yep, and they pull it out and it's Randy. He is stuffed inside a 55 gallon barrel, about 25 paces from the back door of their farmhouse. - She's left him there. - For three years. He's been there. Neighbors have come over. - Wow. - All of this shit, he's right there, stuffed into the fucking, into this gallon. - And she's just telling everybody he's a Bob Seager song. - He's a, yep, he's going, he's a fucking... - Oh my. - It's insane. So she said that a cop said there's no girlfriend that we know of, and he said investigators were unaware of allegations of domestic violence between them, adding that it was not Jermaine to the case at this point. - What was she gonna do? Just kill every guy? - He's in there forever. Yeah, I don't know what she was gonna do with Nick. Put him in a barrel, I guess. I don't know, I mean she's at his family's house. I don't know what her deal is. She left him, I guess she just shoved him down the basement stairs, was like, "I'll put him there for now." - Is he bigger than a 55 gallon drum? Is that the problem? - Did she shove his body down there, like roll him down the steps while she came in, like from the cops, was he laying in the living room and she was like, "Better get him downstairs." Roll, fire, shot. - Great point, yeah. - Who knows, or did she put him down there to begin with, I don't know. So it's pretty wild though, I would say. They asked her parents, did she ever tell you about any abuse and they wouldn't, they would not talk to the cops at all. - Huh. - They said she's dead, it doesn't matter. - It doesn't matter. - It matters to everybody, it matters to us 'cause this is fucking weird and I'm curious. - Guys, there's two dead bodies, let's talk. - There's three at this point, and shadow, four. - Yeah, and the door, yeah. - And a burned down house, man. So the cops here, this is the lieutenant again, he said that Debra is the sole suspect in the deaths of both Nikki Bosco and her husband. He said, "We haven't ruled out anybody else, "but at this time we don't have any other suspects. "There's just no anybody else." This is crazy, now this barrel was only a hundred feet, not from her house, it was much closer there, but a hundred feet from the entrance to the Walton Pistol Club. Of which, Randy used to go all the time. - Yeah. - So Al-Boudin, the guy who runs it, said, "I must have mowed past that spot a hundred times." - Oh my God. - He just mowed right. - How do you, Randy? - Oh, Jesus. - As he mows around the, he probably weed-wacked around that fucking thing. You know he did, you know he did. - Yeah, that thing just ate up spools as that little nylon thing hit the side of that tip. That goddamn den is fucking up my weed-wacker. - Insane, they said, "Well, did you know the sunstrums well?" And he said, "I thought I did." I mean, I didn't know Randy was in a barrel, so I guess not. He said he believes that the domestic violence was ongoing and that that was the motive for Randy's murder. He said, "There's only so many times you can get hit "by a shovel before you get hit back." - Come on. - A shovel? - I don't know, I think I was just a saying of his, is probably, she just finally snapped. And then they said, "Sir, we're the oxygen network. "Would you possibly be interested in a deal?" - Could you give us that title, Paul? - He just really wanted that. Can you do that? It's gonna be, what's it about? - Say that again. - Exactly this is what it's about every week. It's the same show. See this lady? She's gonna be the one who killed somebody guaranteed. It's the same fucking show. - We need a guy like you every week too. We'd wax around a barrel. - That's right. Like, on this show, you never know who's gonna be the murderer. Could be anybody. Could be the eight-year-old. We have no fucking idea. On that show you go, "Well, the wife's gonna kill him, "so that's how this works. "That's the show." - Well, she's had enough. - I think she's gonna get pissed off. - This is Mary. She's probably had about enough. - She's about to snap. Yeah. This is Mary. Mary's had enough of Randy shit. - Over the next hour and 10 minutes, we're gonna tell you how and why. - Just hire us to do the show. It'll be much more entertaining. Much more entertaining. So, Al-Boudin said he had no doubt that Deborah was strong enough to kill her husband and fold his body into the barrel and wheel it behind the garage. She said she could outwork any man. She's a farmer. - She grows pumpkins that are bigger than your car. - So, Randy's daughter, you know, never seen daughter, she said that she was gradually drawn into the whole drama surrounding her father and she said that she wouldn't have recognized him if she passed him on the street, but still it was fascinating that it was her father who was murdered. She said it was just a crazy conversation. She said I wanted to let you know that Deborah committed suicide last night and caught the house on fire. And I was like, okay, you know, shocked at everything. She said that they did not know where my father was and that they were trying to find him. For the next few days, she monitored the developing story and she said I saw on the Walton Reporter website, they found a second body and I was freaking out. What if it's my father? Oh, what if, then they said it wasn't. They said it was Dominic, the second body. She said they said I really hate to tell you this news over the phone, but your father's dead. That's what they told them. We tell you in person if you'd ever seen him. That's the thing, any kind of actual relationship with him. You have a phone notification relationship with your dad, we're sorry to tell you. - As a child who grew up without a father for 28 years, they have no idea how many times she has conjured and wished for this exact scenario. - I hope that motherfucker has murdered someone. - She seems to have just like a real detached curiosity about it, she doesn't seem to have a real anger about it, which I don't know, she got like a stepfather who was like a father to her and she wasn't in need of that thing. - Yeah, that's a great point. 'Cause you win enough awards at school to have just your mom sit in there. You feel like a piece of shit. - Yeah, oh yeah, yeah, yeah. - It sucks, man. So he, she, she's just Christ, man. This is fucking crazy, but they had to tell her over the phone. They're like, listen, if your father would have came to your house, then so would we, but he won't come over, so we're not gonna come over either. Sorry, Mindy, that's just bad. Yeah, that was a shitty thing to do. - Like the bastard child you are. - Shitty thing to do, Randy, just take off like that. You can take off, but fucking, you know, take care of us. - Come on, man, you're 30 miles away. - Yeah, she said, I still don't know how to feel about it. This is stuff I see on CSI, on television. She said, then the next day they called him again. They called her again, they called her back. She said, they told me I was the legal next of kin and I had to take care of his body. - Oh my God, no. - I don't know this, man. - Put him back in the barrel and kick it down a hill. It's fine. - There's a basement there, put the ashes over it or the other, but I don't know what to tell you. - Done, I don't know what to tell you. - I'm not paying for this. - I've got an necklace and a gift card. That's not gonna cover the cost here. - The gift card is much lower than the burial fees. - You have to give your children more over the course of their lives than your funeral will cost, or else they don't have to bury it. She said, it just, oh my God, threw me for a loop. I didn't know what to do. I could've said he wasn't there for the 23 years of my life, so why should I be there for him now? But that's just not who I am. I have a bigger heart than that. So she instead organized a send-off for her dad, including a military burial 'cause he was in the army for two years and during peacetime. - Oh, I've got that name for it. - Yeah, that's that helps, yeah. At the Sullivan County Veterans Cemetery, she said she appreciated that a number of pumpkin growers, including Bill Bobier attended the funeral. She said, they all told me some funny stories that lightened up the situation. They also said that he did mention me and that he really wished he was a part of my life. You would tell her that no matter even if he never, if you said this is the first time I knew he had a daughter, you'd go, he talked about you all the time. I mean, it was just Mandy Mandy, I'm some Mindy, Mindy, Mindy, Mindy, sorry, that's what I meant. - I don't remember. - I don't remember. Whatever. - I put pumpkin seeds in the casket with a watering system. So hang tight in a few years. You're gonna have a big ass pumpkin. - I have to go spread milk on my pumpkins. I'll be back later. - They should've just thrown that cord of wood inside that barrel and thrown in a match. Done deal. - Yeah. - Wipe your hands and walk away. - That's that, like a Vegas car dealer, done and done. There you go. She said that, that put a big smile on my face. My father in their eyes was an awesome friend and a great man. - Well, where the fuck was he when I needed that? - Oh, you tell me he treated you like a son? That's nice. - Thanks a lot, yeah. - Go find yourself. - So, why wasn't he missing? They said, quote, he was never labeled as a missing person. - Yeah. - If no one looks for you, you'll never be missing. - That's a great point. - That's what it is. No one looked for him. Period, that was that. He was never called in as a missing person. The Lieutenant said and said that family members told investigators they hadn't had contact with him, quote, for many years. So they didn't think anything of it. - Wow. - They said the investigation's gonna continue. They're looking at mental health histories, whether there was a history of domestic violence. They're trying to figure out the cause of death, everything like that. They said everything with her right now, actually all three subjects is under investigation. We're fielding a lot of phone calls, people who know all of the people involved in this. - The dog didn't shoot her. So, you know what I mean? - Yeah, so they got a forensic psychologist to try to figure it out. And she said it seems like she was backed into a corner and could see no way out. She can't think of another solution to this awful situation, so she snaps. Okay. - Another one. - Another one, that's the husband. But what about Nikki Bosco in the dog? Cause she's not tied into that situation. She doesn't even live there. She could just go to her house. - How can he tie? - This guy lives like fucking 300 miles away. It's like, I don't understand what the snapping to him. Why'd she kill him? And why'd she kill the fucking dog? How about this? Open the door, let the dog run out, and fucking do it. The cops would have found the dog and rounded it up. I'm sure it's better than burning it or killing it. What an asshole. - I don't know what her deal is. It feels like she was just gonna kill everybody that wronged her forever. - Just whenever it comes up and then hide it. - So every year, about 750 intermarriage killings take place. - Is that right? - But 750 marriages go just short of divorce, let's say. With this. - 750 people find out how much divorce costs and they choose the opposite. - They choose the opposite. They said most of these are influenced by alcohol or sometimes drugs too. This is in the house. They're drunk one person kills another person. They said the rare one is Deborah here because among spousal murders, the male is the victim in only two out of every 10 cases, which is funny, but as far as female killers go, they kill their male partner more than they kill anybody else besides their own children. The female killers really, for the most part, when like a woman kills another woman on this show, it's fucking rare. It's always their spouse or their children, or they kill the guy and the baby. - Yeah, yeah. - Well, if they kill a woman, it's usually to cut the baby out of all of them. - Yeah, without that, like a baby motive, there's, it's rare, it's really rare. So the reactions are, this is Bill Bobier again. He said, "What kills me the most?" - Kills me. - Kills me. - Juice. - Not Deborah, is that all this time, we thought Randy was the bad guy. I don't blame myself, but in a way, I shouldn't have known that Randy, being one of my best friends, would have tried to get ahold of me over all that time. That he's just like, "I just believed he was gone and just ran away. "That's stupid of me." His brother said, "This is Bosco, Nikki Bosco's brother." Said, "We don't know how this could have happened." He said, "I wish we did, but I guess there's no real closure "on what this psycho did." What was he like? 'Cause they're talking about Nikki. He said, "What was he like? "He was a hard worker, a very hard worker "who was dedicated to whatever he did. "He was an honest man, a stand-up guy. "He's a real stand-up guy." - Yeah. - Nikki Bosco's a real stand-up guy. Let me tell you something. It was absolutely a mob name. - Hilarious. - He never ran from the truth. He would tell what he thought. I can't believe I'm not going to see him again. Then, that's the, how did the pumpkin community respond to this whole mess? Well, I found on bigpumpkins.com. Which is not a site about big-titted redheads, shockingly enough, I expected that. - Goddamn it. - Orange-nippled women. But no, it is actually about growing big pumpkins. - Unbelievable. - There's a message board when all this goes down in 2013 in the week following the finding of the bodies and all that. And here are some of the messages. I'll just read them down. Just found out today that one of our fellow growers and friend has passed away. I hope she knows how much she will be missed. R.I.P. Deb. This is before they found Randy. - Oh, wow. - All these, sorry to hear this. We'll remember her in my prayers. Sorry to hear my prayers for her family, sorry. R.I.P. Deb, my thoughts and prayers are with the family. Sorry for her family's loss and we'll keep her in our thoughts today. R.I.P. Deb, and thank you, so, so sorry. Our thoughts and prayers go out to the Sunstrom family. Sorry to hear this, R.I.P. Deb. Deb was a really good friend. By the way, this is from extremepumpkinstore.com is the fucking poster. Extreme, extreme pumpkins. Deb was a really good friend and a good person. For anyone that has seen Lords of the Gourd, Deb became famous for her Wall of Death. - Huh? - They don't know that she has murdered people yet. They think she just killed herself in the fire. - This is unreal. - This is crazy. I hope that she's at peace now. Deb, you will be missed, but not forgotten. You will be missed, Deb. Our prayers are with your family and friends. This is Joel and Mary Lou. It says from them. Now that's some sad news. One of the originals, Rest Easy, Deb. R.I.P. Deb, Sunstrom. So sad. Oh my God. Deb was a very kind-hearted woman. Got to know her at Cooperstown and us. We go way offs, had some good talks with her. I'm still shocked. Rest in peace, Deb. And may God give you all the comfort in heaven. Then it says, why does it always seem that the truly good ones go early while the low life seemed to live forever? Deb, quote, "Mousetrap, Lady." That's her Wall of Death. It's "Mousetraps." Was a friend and former OAF sponsor as well. Then at the end of this, about a couple weeks later, someone says, quote, let me just start off by asking if you people know the circumstances surrounding the death of your wonderful, of your all-wonderful, loving, clinically psychotic friend, Debra. Last time I checked, that twisted evil bitch went down as a thief and murderer. Twisted evil bitch. She murdered my closest friend, an amazing man that had a massive positive impact on the lives of those fortunate enough to meet him. So again, I ask you people, what the fuck is wrong with you? - Grow pumpkins, man. - Grow pumpkins, you dicks. Debra's son's from fucking burn in hell. I wish I could bring you back so I could kill you all over again. You're a selfish, psychotic cunt and I hope the devil, the devil is raping your filthy soul in the lowest depths of hell. (laughing) Is there a worse thing you could say to anybody, really? - It's a little fantastic. - You're a selfish, psychotic cunt and I hope the devil is raping your filthy soul in the lowest depths of hell. - Enter. - Wow, no, he's not done yet. (laughing) That's not his closure. That's a mic drop. See, this person never did stand up. You have to know when to drop the mic and it's over after that. You're never gonna get a bigger one than that. - You're gonna top soul raping? Come on, man. - In the depths of hell. And he says, thanks for nothing. You people live in fantasy lands where the devil is shrouded in pretty colors and confetti, so you all can keep pretending that you're holier than now. - Sir, I gotta say, that was, I don't know if any of it's true or what, but holy shit that the emotion there is wonderful. - I feel what you mean, for sure. - I feel you. So they pulled old Randy out of the ground here. By the way, Randy Lee is his middle name. So many guys, Lee. They pulled him out of the ground and out of the barrel and put him into the ground. They buried him in Sullivan County veteran cemetery, like we said. And so at least he had that. Now the houses, 294 John Lockwood Road, the burned down house, is now a two bedroom, one bath, 2036 square foot house. - That's a big house for two bedroom, one bath. - Yeah, they must have sold off the land because the the zestimate on it, it's not on the market, but the zestimate on the whole thing is $395,800 and I don't think that can be 200 acres of land. So they must have parceled it off. Now the 1884 South River Road, that is the pumpkin house here. Two bedroom, one bath, 1463 square feet. So very small little house. That is only on a half acre. That is at $152,000 zestimate at this point. And in case you're in New Jersey, don't mix this up. In New Jersey, there is a Debbie Sundstrom, exact same spelling on LinkedIn, who's a teacher of baking and pastry at Lower Cape, May Regional High School. If she teaches you to make a pumpkin pie, don't freak out, she's fine. She did not kill anyone, her dog-- - She's alive for Christ's sake. - She's alive and thriving and making pies and shit. So there you go, everyone. That's Walton, New York. - Wow. - And a wild story of, you never thought it would go to pumpkins and all this murder and houses burning and everything else. I don't know what happened here. - I can't believe this. - It's a crazy fucking story. It's, I mean, they get crazier. You go out 500 episodes. They gotta be running out of shit. No, we're not. We're not even close. We're just figuring out what's weird now. - She did it. - She did it. - She showed us. - Fuck yeah. We were talking before the show, and we were like, this show still feels new. And it always does-- - Still feels brand new. - Still feels brand new. We're still feeling our way through it, getting our feet wet. So there you go. If you enjoyed that show, tell everybody about it. Tell the world about it. Get on whatever app you're on. And please leave a review. It helps a lot. Follow us on social media. We are @SmalltownMurder on Instagram, SmalltownPod on Facebook. Murder Small on Twitter. Shiloh, all of that. You also certainly want to go to shutup and give me murder.com. Merchandise is up. In addition to merchandise being up, there's also tickets to live shows. Minneapolis, September 20. - Let's go! - You're on deck, baby. Our biggest show ever, if you sell it out. State Theater, gorgeous place. No reason not to come. And Milwaukee the next night, only a couple tickets left for that. So those are gonna be gone soon. Kansas City, Oklahoma City, Austin, Boston, New York. Get your tickets to all of them. They're going fast. So come see us shut up and give me murder.com. Patreon.com/crimeandsports. That's where you get the bonus stuff. $5 a month or above. This week, which you're gonna get for Crime and Sports and Smalltown Murder, which you'll have access to both. For Crime and Sports, we are going to talk about industrial disasters. Yes, nothing to do with sports, but people, you want to hear what it's like if a molten steel thing breaks and just liquefies everybody? We'll tell you about it. - Fills in the boardroom? - All right. - Fills it all up then. That's so fucking disgusting and horrible. - Is it? I don't know. - It's crazy. It's gonna be wild. Then for Smalltown Murder, we are gonna talk about the Cannibal Cop case, which was, he was a cop at one point, but did he really want to be a Cannibal? Was he just a creative writer or was he planning something? We'll talk all about that. Shut that is patreon.com/crimeandsports. So get in there, do that. Hang out with us. Keep coming back and keep doing that and follow us on social media. Shut up and give me murder.com is where you find the links to everything like that. Keep coming back every week, everybody. And until next week, it's been our pleasure. Bye. 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