Beyond The Horizon

ICYMI: The Ghislaine Maxwell Deposition (Part 10)

Our look into the dark underbelly of the Epstein operation continues in this episode as we begin our look at the Ghislaine Maxwell deposition in full.

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Ghislaine Maxwell Deposition Transcript - DocumentCloud

Duration:: 28m
Broadcast on:: 07 Jul 2024
Audio Format:: mp3

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See terms at racing.fanduel.com, gambling problem, call 1-800-Gambler. What's up, everyone, and welcome back to the Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to dive right back in to the Galain Maxwell Deposition. So, let's get the discuss bus rolling, shall we? McCauley, let's flip back to the next page, the one we were on before they're redacted, the message towards the bottom that says, "For Jeffrey, message of Galain." And it says, "Would it be helpful to have it?" Then redacted, "Come to Palm Beach today to stay here and help train new staff with Galain." Who are you referring to in that message? Do you remember? Mr. Pagliukka, "Objection to the form and the foundation." McCauley, the question is, "Do you recall the message?" Maxwell, "I do not recall the message." McCauley, "Do you recall training a female under the age of 18 at Jeffrey Epstein's home?" Magliukka, "Objection to the form and the foundation." Maxwell, "I have never trained a female under the age of 18 at Jeffrey's home." McCauley, "Did you ever say it would be helpful to have a female under the age of 18 come to Palm Beach today to stay here and help train new staff with Galain?" Maxwell, "I never asked anyone under the age of 18 to come and help train new staff." McCauley, "I'm going to flip to the next page which is redacted." Maxwell, "By the way, that is not my handwriting, and it's not dated, and I couldn't possibly tell you who that is." "Did you hear that?" McCauley, "You got your testimony on the record." Maxwell, "Yes," Mr. Edwards, "Roberts redacted." McCauley, "I'm going to direct your attention to the top right hand corner for Mr. Epstein redacted message redacted a phone number and called." "Do you know who that is?" Maxwell, "I do not." McCauley, "Do you know that redacted was 15 at the time she left this message?" Mr. Paglioka, "Objection to the form and foundation." Maxwell, "I don't know who redacted is." McCauley, "And then I'm going to direct your attention to the bottom left, which is a message J.E., message of redacted, and the message says he just did a good one, 18 years she spoke to me and said I love Jeffrey." Was redacted referring to sex with an 18-year-old in that message? Mr. Paglioka, "Objection to the form and the foundation." Maxwell, "How could I know what redacted is referring to?" McCauley, "Do you know if redacted had sex with an 18-year-old?" That he referenced to Jeffrey Epstein, "And we're talking about John Luke Burnell here." Paglioka, "Objection to the form and the foundation." Maxwell, "How could I possibly know?" McCauley, "Did Jeffrey Epstein or redacted ever tell you that redacted had sex with an 18-year-old?" Mr. Paglioka, "Objection to the form and the foundation." Maxwell, "I have no idea what you're talking about." McCauley, "Did they ever tell you that?" Maxwell, "I have no recollection of every hearing such a ridiculous thing." McCauley, "I will turn to the next page, which is SAO 2841. Manager, "Do you have the Bates number?" McCauley, "The bottom right hand corner." Mr. Epstein, "The date, redacted," Ms. Maxwell, "It says redacted, it says quote, redacted, is available on Tuesday, no one for tomorrow. Is this a message that you took?" Maxwell, "It's not my handwriting, and I don't know who R is." McCauley, "So when it says Ms. Maxwell in the line there, is that you calling for Mr. Epstein?" Mr. Paglioka, "Objection to the form and the foundation." Maxwell, "I didn't write it. I don't know when this message was taken. I don't even know what it's referring to, and I don't know what my name is doing on that message pad." McCauley, "I know you said you only took them a few times. Do you have a recollection of taking messages of females who would call the house to indicate whether or not they were coming over?" Mr. Paglioka, "Objection to the form and the foundation." Maxwell, "Give me a date range." McCauley, "On 7904, Maxwell, how would I know if I'm in Palm Beach? Most likely not." McCauley, "I'm asking you if you have a recollection of taking messages for girls who would call the house." Maxwell, "Girls," McCauley, "Femels," "Who would call the house?" Maxwell, "Over the age of 18," McCauley, "Redacted, is 15." Maxwell, "I don't know who Redacted is, so I can't testify anything to Redacted." McCauley, "Your name is on the message." Maxwell, "I didn't put it there and I don't know what it's doing there." McCauley, "So your testimony is you didn't take this message?" Maxwell, "I obviously didn't take the message. It's signed by somebody or it's not my handwriting. We don't know if I'm in Palm Beach." McCauley, "Did you arrange for Redacted to have his friend Redacted come over on Tuesday of this week?" Maxwell, "I don't know who Redacted is, so it would be hard for me to arrange anything with someone I don't know." McCauley, "Why is your name reflected on this message pad?" Mr. Pagliuca, "Objection to the form and the foundation." Maxwell, "I have no idea. You would have to ask whoever took the message." McCauley, "Did you, in the course of your work, regularly take messages for Jeffrey Epstein?" Maxwell, "I already testified I hardly ever did." McCauley, "Would you, in the course of your work, regularly set up appointments for females to come over and give massages for Jeffrey Epstein?" Mr. Pagliuca, "Objection to the form and the foundation." Maxwell, "Can you specify females you mean adults over the age of 18?" McCauley, "Did you regularly set up for Jeffrey Epstein, adults over the age of 18 to come for massages?" Maxwell, "I didn't regularly do that, no." McCauley, "Would you take messages with respect to females over the age of 18 to come over for a massage?" Maxwell, "I already testified I hardly ever did take messages." McCauley, "But would you?" Maxwell, "I already testified I hardly ever to this." McCauley interrupts her, "I know hardly ever, but did you?" Maxwell, "Over the course of time, it is possible I may have taken a couple. I have no recollection. I hardly ever did, and I did so irregularly that it would be hard for me to pinpoint." McCauley, "Did you ever take a message for a female under the age of 18 to come over for a massage for any other reason to be with Jeffrey Epstein?" Mr. Pagliuca, "Objection to the form and the foundation." Maxwell, "I hardly ever took a message. I have absolutely no way of knowing. Maybe one of my friend's daughters called to say they were coming to visit me. I have never taken messages. I don't know about how I would possibly know if somebody I spoke to, one or two times that I took a message is, how old they would be, but I have never taken a message where I was aware of anything being under the age of 18, and I probably took it so infrequently it would be impossible." McCauley, "Can you turn to redacted? It should be the next page." Maxwell, "Uh-huh." McCauley, "Do you see at the top?" It says for Mr. J. 11804, and then the name is redacted. It says, "I have a female for them. Why would a minor be calling Jeffrey to say they have a female for them? Do you know?" Mr. Pagliuca, "Objection to the form and the foundation." Maxwell, "First of all, I don't know that's a minor. I don't know who took the message. McCauley, I will represent. To you, these are our police reports, and minor's names have to be redacted for privacy purposes." Pagliucha, "Objection to the form and the foundation." McCauley, "Do you know why a minor child would be calling Jeffrey and leaving a message to say, 'I have a female for them?'" Mr. Pagliuca, "Objection to the form and the foundation." Maxwell, "I can't testify anything about this message. I don't know anything about it." McCauley, "I'm going to direct your attention to the next page, redacted. If you look at the bottom left, you are going to see a message for Jeffrey from redacted." It says she doesn't have a number and left a message that she called. "Do you know who redacted is?" Maxwell, "I do not." McCauley, "Do you know that redacted was thirteen at the time she placed this call to Jeffrey?" Maxwell, "I don't know who redacted is." McCauley, "Would Jeffrey regularly have thirteen-year-olds call and leave messages?" Mr. Pagliucha, "Objection to the form and the foundation." Maxwell, "How would I possibly, these were messages taken when I was not at the house, and I have no idea who they are now, how old they are, nor anything?" McCauley, "How do you know you weren't at the house on this day?" Maxwell, "I was hardly at the house in 2005." McCauley, "So you could have been there, you just don't know?" Maxwell, "In the five days, I might have been there in 2005. I suppose it's possible, but it's unlikely." Mr. Pagliucha, "Do you know why this isn't redacted if you were representing all the names of people who were underage and who have been redacted from these records?" As McCauley, "I think it was, my assumption is, it was amiss by the police department." McCauley, "I will direct your attention to redacted, so you will skip the page and go back. It's the final page in the message pads, and you will see on the top left for Jeffrey on 6/1/2005 from redacted with a phone number." It says, "He was a teacher for you to teach you how to speak Russian. She is two times eight years old, not blonde, lessons are free, and you can have your first today if you call. So what do you think they were talking about there, just to interject?" Probably not talking about somebody coming over to play, you know, paddy cakes, right? "Do you know whether redacted sent a Russian girl that was 16 years old over to Jeffrey Epstein's home?" Mr. Pagliucha, "Objection to the form and the foundation." Maxwell, "I do not know." McCauley, "Did you ever observe a Russian girl that was 16 years old come to Jeffrey Epstein's home?" Maxwell, "I am not aware of any 16-year-old Russian girl that I can recall in Jeffrey Epstein's homes." McCauley, "Do you know whether Jeffrey Epstein had sex with a 16-year-old Russian girl?" Mr. Pagliucha, "Objection to the form and the foundation." Maxwell, "I do not know." They take a quick break here, and then they get back at 1.21 p.m. The questioning starts right away. McCauley, "Miss Maxwell, before the break, we were talking about, and I think it's one of the exhibits that's marked in front of you. I'm not sure of the number, but the police report that I showed you earlier today. Now, that you have knowledge of the police report and the criminal investigation with respect to Jeffrey Epstein, do you believe that Jeffrey Epstein abused any minor children?" Mr. Pagliucha, "Objection to the form and the foundation." Maxwell, "Can you repeat the question, please, and break it down so it's more understandable?" McCauley, "Now that you have the police report, and I showed you this morning that you had an opportunity to look at it, Maxwell, you gave it to me. I didn't look at it." McCauley, "The question that I asked you about the police report, you were aware that there is a police report." Maxwell, "I'm aware that there is a police report." McCauley, "So you're aware there was a criminal investigation of Jeffrey?" Maxwell, "I'm aware that there was," McCauley, "Now that you were aware of those two things and having talked to Jeffrey Epstein, do you believe Jeffrey Epstein sexually abused minors?" Mr. Pagliucha, "Objection to the form and the foundation." Maxwell, "Can you re-ask the second part of that question, please?" McCauley, "Sure." These two documents, we were talking about the document and the investigation, "You said you were aware of, and after having talked to Jeffrey Epstein, do you believe Jeffrey Epstein sexually abused minors?" Mr. Pagliucha, "Objection to the form and foundation." Maxwell, "What do you mean I talked to Jeffrey? You need to break the question down further." McCauley, "So, you have the police report." Maxwell, "I do," McCauley, "And you're aware of the criminal investigation." Maxwell, "I am." McCauley, "Let's take those two things." After knowing those two things, "Do you believe that Jeffrey Epstein abused minor children?" Mr. Pagliucha, "Objection to the form and the foundation." Maxwell, "Can you explain what you mean by the question, actually?" McCauley, "I think the question speaks for itself. I'll try again, though. I will say it one more time because I want you to be able to understand it." Knowing that you have a police report here, and knowing about the criminal investigation, "Do you believe that Jeffrey Epstein sexually abused minors?" Mr. Pagliucha, "Same objection." Maxwell, "I know what you put in front of me, and I know what I read." McCauley, "I'm asking, 'What you believe?' Do you believe Jeffrey Epstein sexually abused minors?" Maxwell, "I can only tell you what I read and what you showed me." McCauley, "I'm asking what you believe. From your own belief, do you believe that Jeffrey Epstein abused minors?" Maxwell, "I can only go from what I know personally, and what I know personally about what Virginia's lies talked about. She is the only person I know that actually claimed that. And I can say with certitude that everything Virginia said was a lie." McCauley, "You're aware that Jeffrey Epstein was sentenced for sexual abuse. Are you aware of that?" Mr. Pagliucha, "Objection to the Formant Foundation." McCauley, "Are you aware that Jeffrey Epstein served time for sexual abuse of a minor?" Pagliucha, "Objection to the Formant Foundation." Maxwell, "I don't believe that's what he was sentenced for, actually." McCauley, "So you don't know that Jeffrey Epstein served time for a sexually abusing a minor?" Mr. Pagliucha, "Objection to the Formant Foundation." Maxwell, "I don't believe that's what he was sentenced for. McCauley, do you know that Jeffrey Epstein was convicted for procuring a minor for prostitution?" Mr. Pagliucha, "Objection to the Formant Foundation." Maxwell, "I don't know exactly what he was convicted of. I don't know that he was convicted. I know that he spent time in jail." McCauley, "Do you know that he spent time in jail related to an issue with a minor child?" Mr. Pagliucha, "Objection to the Formant Foundation." Maxwell, "I did not think I know that." McCauley, "What did you think that he was spending time in jail for?" Maxwell, "I only know he went to jail for, it was alleged that he hired, that it had an underage prostitute." McCauley, "So knowing that, do you believe that Jeffrey Epstein sexually abused minors?" Mr. Pagliucha, "Objection to the Form and the Foundation." Maxwell, "I can only tell you what he went to jail for." McCauley, "I'm asking what you believe, I'm not asking what he went to jail for, I'm asking for your belief." Maxwell, "I cannot testify to what I believe, I can only say what I have seen in the reports, and I know he went to jail." McCauley, "You can testify to what you believe, do you believe, to this Maxwell cuts her off? I can only testify." McCauley here returns the favor, "Let me finish the question, so the record is clear. Do you believe Jeffrey Epstein sexually abused minors?" Mr. Pagliucha, "Objection to the Form and the Foundation." McCauley, "You can answer, Maxwell, I can only testify to what I know. I know that Virginia is a liar, and I know that what she testified to is a lie. So I can only testify to what I know, to be a falsehood, and half those falsehoods are enormous, and so I can only categorically deny everything she has said, and that is the only thing I can talk about, because I have no knowledge of anything else." McCauley, "I'm not asking about Virginia, I'm asking whether you believe that Jeffrey Epstein sexually abused minors." Maxwell, "Again, I repeat, I can only go on what I know, and what I know is a falsehood based on what Virginia said." McCauley, "Do you believe Jeffrey Epstein sexually abused minors?" Maxwell, "Again, I repeat. Virginia is a liar, and based on Virginia's stories, that is what, she lied, and I can only then talk about what you've showed me in the police reports, and I know he went to jail." McCauley, "Do you believe that Jeffrey Epstein sexually abused minors? I'm asking about your belief." Maxwell, "Again, I just repeat, I can only go, my belief is that Virginia is a liar." McCauley, "What is that belief?" Maxwell, "She is an absolute liar, and everything she said is a lie, and therefore everything that stems from it, that is a lie." McCauley, "We all have somewhere we're trying to get to. As the largest energy producer in Colorado, Chevron is working to responsibly meet rising energy demand, so everyone can get to where they want to be. You've arrived." That's Energy in Progress. Visit chevron.com/tankless. chevron.com/tankless Hey everyone! It is Ryan Seacrest here, ready to heat up your summer vacation? Get ready, things are about to get sizzling at Chumba Casino. Your summer getting a whole lot hotter with a special daily login bonus waiting just for you. Sign up now for reals of fun and reals of prizes right here at Chumba Casino. With yours truly, join me at Chumba Casino.com and dive into a summer of social casino fun. Sponsored by Chumba Casino, no purchase necessary, VGW Group, voidware prohibited by law, 18 plus terms and conditions apply. McCauley, "Do you believe that Jeffrey Epstein sexually abused minors? Maxwell, "Again, can we move on from here?" McCauley, "No, you're going to answer the question. Maxwell, I have already. McCauley, "No, you have not. Maxwell, I have." McCauley, "Do you believe Jeffrey Epstein sexually abused minors?" Maxwell, "Again, I repeat, the only person I know who has talked about these things, that I have personal, was personally present, was Virginia, and I can only talk to Virginia and that she is a liar." McCauley, "Setting aside Virginia, take her out of the picture. It's my question." Maxwell, "We are here today because of Virginia and her lies because this is a defamation suit." McCauley, "Setting aside Virginia, do you believe Jeffrey Epstein sexually abused minors?" Maxwell, "I cannot set aside Virginia because that's why we are here and this is the only reason I am sitting here in this room and I will not set her aside and I cannot comment about anything else except her because she is the only person I actually know about." McCauley, "Are you refusing to answer the question?" Maxwell, "I am not refusing to answer the question. I can only testify about Virginia, who is an absolute total liar and you all know she is. She lied about her age, you know she lied about absolutely everything, so I can only go on what I know, as a liar and she is a liar, an exaggerator, a fantasist, an absolutely true terrible person." McCauley, "I want you to listen very carefully. I'm asking you to set aside Virginia." Maxwell, "I can't set aside Virginia. McCauley, I am asking you to do that for the purposes of this question." Packley Hooka, "She doesn't have to. McCauley, she can refuse to answer the question." Maxwell, "I'm not refusing to answer the question. McCauley, you are refusing. My question has nothing to do with Virginia. Let me make the record here. My question has nothing to do with Virginia. I want it to be clear for the court. My question has nothing to do with Virginia. What I'm asking is, "Whether you believe Jeffrey Epstein abused minors?" Mr. Packley Hooka, "I object to the form you made your record. She answered the question. A fair reading of her answer is she doesn't have a belief because she doesn't have a personal knowledge." McCauley, "Now you are testifying for the witness. Let her answer the question." Packley Hooka, "It's a fair answer to the question." Maxwell, "Again, I testified. My only personal knowledge concerns Virginia. And everything Virginia has said is an absolute lie, which is why we were here today. If you are asking me to testify about things I have no knowledge of other than the police report that you showed me, I am not in a position to make a statement based on that because you are asking me to speculate and I cannot speculate." McCauley, "I'm asking about your belief. I'm not asking you to speculate at all. I'm asking what you believe." Maxwell, "You are asking me to speculate and I won't speculate. McCauley, I am not asking you to speculate. I am asking what you believe." Packley Hooka, "She answered the question and we can move on. McCauley, she has not answered the question. Packley Hooka, "We are not going to engage in this debate. She answered the question if you want a market to move to compel an answer to the question have at it, okay?" McCauley, "Miss Maxwell, is it your belief that Jeffrey Epstein interacted sexually with minors?" Maxwell, "Again, you are asking me the same type of question exactly but with different language. Again, my only knowledge of somebody who claims these things that I have personal knowledge of is Virginia. Virginia is an absolute liar and everything she has said is a lie. Therefore, based on those lies, I cannot speculate on what anybody else did or didn't do because if Virginia is the example of what that story is and everything she said is false, so everything that leads from that is also false." McCauley, "So the other 30 minor children in the police report are also telling lies about being sexually abused during massages with Mr. Epstein? Mr. Packley Hooka, "Objection to the form and foundation. Council, can you show me in these police reports who the 30 minors are?" McCauley, "I'm asking my question." Packley Hooka, "You're making a representation about numbers. You are making a representation on the record about what people said or didn't say. We have no knowledge about that. These are all redacted records. So these are bad questions. They don't lead to any admissible evidence, it is only being propounded to the witness to her assor. So we are done with these questions." McCauley, "You're done?" Packley Hooka, "Yes. My question is, are you aware that Jeffrey Epstein was convicted of having relationships with a minor child?" Packley Hooka once again interjects. She answered that question already. McCauley, "I'm getting to my next question." Packley Hooka, "Ask your next question. Don't keep asking the same question." McCauley, "You are now shouting. I want the record to reflect that you are interrupting the deposition. I ask you to calm down, take a deep breath, and please let me ask my questions." Packley Hooka, "Your behavior is inappropriate." McCauley, "I'll ask my question again. Do you believe that Jeffrey Epstein interacted sexually with minors?" Maxwell, "Again, I go back to this. My only actual knowledge is with Virginia, and Virginia is a liar. So I can only talk about what Virginia's story, and as I've said before, and there are so many examples, I mean thousands of examples, of our lives, that is the only thing I can talk about." McCauley, "Based on that, you believe that Jeffrey Epstein sexually abused minors?" Maxwell, "Again, as I said, I'm only talking to what I know, I can only talk to Virginia." McCauley, "So it is your belief that Jeffrey Epstein did not sexually abuse minors?" Maxwell, "Again. I can only talk on what I know, and I know that Virginia is a liar, and that what she said is a lie. So I can only testify to what she accused, and you guys put in the press for salacious purposes, and whatever terrible, inappropriate, unethical, and terrible reasons you chose to do that about me, and I can testify those are all lies." McCauley, "Not knocked off of a perch. Do you know whether Jeffrey Epstein sexually abused any minor children?" Again, I only know 1,000% that Virginia is a liar, I can only talk to Virginia, her lies, and you're inappropriate, unethical, really unattractive, terrible use of her, and the way that you have abused the system, used the press for purposes that are unethical, inappropriate, and appalling. McCauley, "Do you believe that Jeffrey Epstein used massages to lure minors to have sex with them?" Maxwell, "Again, that is Virginia's testimony which is a lie. McCauley, but do you believe it?" Maxwell, "Again, I refer back to Virginia, McCauley, I'm asking whether you believe it or not." Maxwell, "I can only go with what I know, and I know that Virginia is a liar, and therefore that's a lie." McCauley, "So you don't believe that?" Maxwell, "Again, I said that Virginia is a liar. McCauley, are you aware that Jeffrey Epstein is a registered sex offender?" Maxwell, "I am." McCauley, "Are you aware that Jeffrey Epstein paid considerable amounts of money to settle lawsuits with minor children that he had sexual contact with?" Mr. Pagliuca, "Objection to the form and the foundation." Maxwell, "I have no knowledge of those issues." McCauley, "Why did you continue to maintain contact with Jeffrey Epstein after he pled guilty?" Maxwell, "I'm a very loyal person, and Jeffrey was very good to me when my father passed away, and I believe that you need to be a good friend in people's hour of need, and I felt that it was very thoughtful, nice thing for me to do to help him in a very limited fashion, which was helping if he had any issues with his homes, in terms of the staffing issues. It was very, very minor, but I felt it was thoughtful in somebody's hour of need. Did he continue to pay you during that time period?" Maxwell, "I was paid a little." "Maninger, you were paid." Maxwell, "Yes." "Maninger, when you say a little, what did you mean by that?" Maxwell, "I don't recall the exact amount." McCauley, "So in 2009 you left them, what were you being paid?" Maxwell, "I just told you, I don't recall." McCauley, "Were you being paid a hundred grand?" Maxwell, "I just don't, you, I don't recall." McCauley, "Were you paid over a million dollars?" Maxwell, "I think I would remember over a million, so it was under a million?" Maxwell, "It was under a million dollars." McCauley, "Was it over five hundred thousand?" Maxwell, "I just told you it was under five hundred, it was an amount of money, less than five hundred thousand dollars, less than a million dollars, and I did it out of thoughtfulness and consideration for somebody who was in trouble." McCauley, "Did you have an attorney to consult with, during the criminal investigation of Jeffrey Epstein?" Maxwell, "I don't believe I did." All right, folks, we're gonna wrap up this episode here, and in the next episode we'll pick up where we left off. 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