What barriers are there stopping people with disabilities getting involved in Manx politics?
That was the topic of conversation at a workshop hoping to make Tynwald more accessible.
Amy Griffiths has been finding out more:
Manx Newscast
How can Tynwald be more accessible?
Hi there, I'm Amy Griffiths and I'm one of the journalists in Manx Radio's Newsroom. And on this episode of Newscast we're asking what barriers there are stopping people with disabilities getting involved in Manx politics. That's because it was the topic of conversation at a workshop hoping to make Tim world more accessible. I went along and spoke to some of the people who attended. I'm Lucy Buxton and I'm the CEO of the Manx Dev Society. I think it's a very important discussion. I'm very pleased that Kerry Sharp, MLC has put this together because there were a wide range of different people around the table today talking. From a hearing loss point of view it's a hidden disability. A lot of people will not realize that someone has hearing loss but they also don't realize that how limiting that can be when you actually want to interact and take part. So in terms of if I wanted to stand as a candidate for example what accessibility is there for me? If I was to attend a Hastings meeting will I be able to hear fellow people on the stand? Will I be able to hear people within the hall? How will that be arranged? If I was successful and elected will I be able to follow what happens in Tim world chamber? I know there are some accessibility arrangements in there. Would they actually support me? I don't know and that can actually put people off that fear of not knowing. It's all very well saying well if you were to be elected then we'd put something in place. How quickly could that be put in place? How included would I feel? So a lot of the time people would just think you know what I'll not get involved it's much safer to not do that and be rejected. And what do you think about some of the action points that have come out from today's meeting? Do you feel optimistic that there might be some improvements to hopefully getting more people with some kind of disability involved in politics to get their voice heard? There's been a wide range of things discussed today and I have to be positive yes because I think if you don't come into a discussion like this feeling positive then you're not going to have a positive outcome. Certainly the people the members of Tim world, led to the council who are here today have expressed that they are very positive about this and they want to drive this change forward. It's not going to be something that happens overnight it is a work in progress but as we become a more inclusive society we are going to have more people getting involved so it's got to be a positive thing. And to really have an inclusive society you do need to have people of all walks of life within the government within parliament to really be able to get that representation across do you agree? I certainly do agree. There's been if you look back historically including women in parliament you know those figures are changing there was discussion around positive discrimination should that be included here? Is there a way of doing that? I'm not sure that that is the best way to go forward because you want the best person for the job. From our point of view if you think about it one in six of the population has some degree of hearing loss is that reflected in that chamber? At the moment no it isn't so that question is why not there were people here who are wheelchair users how many wheelchair users are there in Tim world? None. So yes if you're going to have a parliament that represents and works for the people they have to have a knowledge and understanding of the people and therefore they have to come from the people so that wider range of people accessing and taking part and being representative should be there. And so for anyone listening who's from any of those communities and thinking that this might appeal to them what would your message be to them? Research it. Talk to someone maybe get in contact with Kerry Sharp or Sarah Moltvie they were two of the people here today we also had Dawn Kynish they are interested so they are here now they will be able to give you some ideas and we'll be able to talk to you about okay well what might be a difficulty for you that can possibly be addressed is there something already in the works you know something coming down through the pipeline that you're not aware of that would actually make that difference that would then say yes actually that would mean I could get involved and my voice would be heard. I'm Catherine Williams currently on Commissioner. And what did you think of today's discussion? Yeah it was it was good I have to say it was good it was disappointing in a way and that's not to guess that the organization is disappointing in a way that this day and age that discussions like this had to happen I think when we're in 2024 and people should anybody should be able to access if they want to stand for political participants they should be able to have the opportunity to do that. And you are a political member yourself not of Tim Ward but of your local commissioners and what kind of barriers did you face when you were standing? Well there were basic access barriers initially in there to connect the boardroom we had no lifting at the time but what was elective we had to move to a place that was accessible and then eventually a lift was put in but I have to say the most important thing was the reason I stores was not the disability reasons. I once slammed because I felt and hoped I'd have something to offer the community. That was nothing to do with disability I'm a tenant so I could bring that sort of angle I'm also a woman obviously so there aren't that many women involved in politics so there are all sorts of reasons obviously I couldn't ignore the fact that I have a disability but that wasn't and never would be for me the reason I stood. There's a lot more to you as a person than your disability basically really. I I think I think that's the case for everybody who has a disability and the whole thing of you know having discussions like this is sad really in it in a way and that's not to get at people. It's to say well why shouldn't somebody with a disability be involved because disability is part of them but they've got a lot more sort of burden than having a visual impairment or being a user or whatever they have all sorts of things because they have as many negative and positive experiences of life in general as any body else doesn't make as many mistakes too. I'm so sorry guys I'm really sorry just because I'm recording an interview sorry I'm so sorry thank you thank you I'm sorry yeah and so what could Tim Wood particularly then be doing more of to be able to encourage more people to be able to feel like they can get involved in politics and there is something that is accessible to them. Well there are basic things you need to look at which is the access issues not just as we were hearing today it's for someone like me who's a wheelchair user but you've got people with visual impairments hearing impairments who maybe feel they can't access things because that there are just little slight differences that could be made um to to change um things um but I think it's attitude of minds not just for people within Tim Wood but society generally to say well actually just because that person's wheelchair user doesn't mean they haven't got a brain and it can offer something and then I never for me I never actually stood on the disability ticket because quite rightly I would get nowhere with it because you have to have more than that I know I think I do but I know make just as many mistakes as anybody else and that's nothing to do with my disability that's that's just me you're just a human yeah yeah and that's I think is what people need to see they need to see past the I know lots of its mental barriers I think of not just people with disabilities but society generally and do you think the way of overcoming that is to see more people more visibly in positions like in government who have visible disabilities who or don't not visible disabilities but who are able to show things from that perspective and be part of everyday life I think it's difficult to separate things really because you you don't want people to think oh we have and I only got both of them because I've got a disability you know it's because I actually want to make a positive difference to the community the constituency I live in particularly if you're talking about national politics you know they're national issues that affect me as a woman as a person who is under 50 you know and there are other people who may have disabilities but have families as well so they have other issues to deal with but everyday issues that anyone could deal with and it's it's having the access to get get over those you're a local commissioner at the moment would you ever be tempted by national politics possibly but at the moment no and that's nothing to do with access like I think there's there's enough to do at a local level and and sometimes well how can I say this some sometimes my fear would be that I'd lose touch with local people if you're dealing with national issues and you've got to focus on those without losing time to be related to you obviously but you've got to focus on those and I've got other things I want to do and life's too short to just sort of oh I'll go into politics and you know I've got all the things I want to do I don't know how how long I'll be able to be in a position to do them I wouldn't rule it out but I not my not my member of the legislative council Kerry Sharpe organised the event she's been speaking to Christian James what was a really interesting discussion actually and I'm glad that it took place and I think that it was of of use going forward so we had some members attend who do have disabilities we had some representatives of charities which represent people with disabilities and we had at least one member who does have a hidden disability themselves so it was it was it was a valuable discussion we touched on some aspects which I think could be solved relatively easily perhaps you know fingers crossed for example we had two representatives from the Alzheimer's Society and they were talking so this isn't necessarily about access to political office but the discussion moved on to actual voting and so you know whether you have Alzheimer's or not you're on the voting list and they were talking about how in the lead up to elections they often have discussions with people who are very clear about who they want to vote for in an election but then come the day of the election they they've forgotten that it is an election and they've forgotten who it was that they wanted to vote for so you know in terms of democracy can we do anything about that and I think we can I mean possibly we could extend the postal vote perhaps to people with Alzheimer's or dementia and then put some kind of process in around that so that perhaps people in moments of clarity can make a decision you know and set the postal vote down and then that can be included on the day of elections so you know maybe that's something we can look at and sort out something else we talked about was there was a representative of people with learning disabilities so this wasn't in terms of people necessarily standing for for office but again it was to do with the fact that people with learning disabilities are some of the most vulnerable in our society and we don't have any direct method in place for hearing the voices of those people and letting them take part in the democratic process so that's a discussion that we will be taking up with the person who raised this yesterday we were lucky to have a person attend who is a local commissioner and has been for 13 years who happens to have a disability so that was really valuable to hear from that person about their experiences in politics and as that person said disability as such has never been their raison d'etre for becoming involved in politics they just happen to have a disability but it was interesting to sort of talk about the challenges with that person we also had a young person who has a disability and it was really useful to hear from their point of view about the experience that they've had going through the education system they're still in the education system and what that person suggested was that perhaps we should be having be making sure that in I'm trying to remember what the subject is called now PSHE that within the curriculum there there should be room for discussion about different kinds of disability so that at school children grow up understanding a lot more about disability because this person was talking about prejudice that they had come across within school and again you know this this is something we can do something about now we know that the Timwell Chamber House of Keys, Legislative Council are not accessible they're not fully accessible and that's something that I'm working on but we can do other things as well at the same time so looking at the curriculum I think will be a discussion that I now have with the Department of Education it is 2024 are you at all disappointed that these are the conversations that are having to be had well yeah because it's not just Timwell it's it's everywhere you know life is is not set up for people who have disabilities and and you know especially since the Equality Act we should all be aware of making things you know whatever it is housing shops you know whatever it is it should be accessible there was someone yesterday who has hearing loss and they were making a very good point that if you only speak British Sign Language for example and you're so disadvantaged in terms of being able to hear what's going on in not just in the political sphere but you know news in general because you don't necessarily read subtitles in English you speak British Sign Language which is completely different language altogether so this might be something which I could have a discussion with Mank's radio about because it is the public broadcaster and you know maybe the news could be translated into British Sign Language for example so again this is something which we could do something about now what was the original question oh that we should be discussing this at all no of course we shouldn't be it's something which which should have been addressed already but you know here we are now and there were I didn't even invite Tim Hall members yesterday it was supposed to just be for the public but there were five members present at the workshop so it does show that you know that there's a lot of interest in this area and that can only be a positive thing so with that in mind what action points are being taken away will we actually start to see any improvements in accessibility in politics or even across the board like you said because it's not just in political settings so in the short term I think there are a number of things we can look at we can look at creating a channel for hearing from people with learning disabilities we can look at how news can be accessed more readily through the public broadcaster perhaps in terms of British Sign Language we can look at how people with dementia or Alzheimer's might be able to exercise their right to vote more I'm Tim Wood representative for the parliamentarians with disabilities network so I'm in regular contact across the Commonwealth and you know with all the parliamentarians and sorry I'm trying to remember what what point I'm I'm trying to make here so I'm Tim Wood representative on a network called parliamentarians with disabilities and that gives me access to Commonwealth funding so I've already accessed funding and had a complete accessibility audit carried out on the Tim Wood building and also the chambers so the department of infrastructure has got a really nice long list of of all the accessibility jobs that it needs to carry out and it is slowly chipping away at all of these jobs so we can see already just a few adjustments that have been made here in the brutal suite to make the toilets completely accessible to the public and people might have noticed outside of Tim Wood itself on Prospect Hill there's now grab rails and a ramp you know these small things but it's a start and also through that funding we're now going to update and have a modern hearing loop put into the brutal suite here so this is our public space um I think that there are other things that we can look at within the building maybe making sure that speech to text technology is available perhaps for members of the public who might be listening to debates in terms of people doing their job we really have to have lift access which gets people into Tim Wood chamber led to the council house keys we absolutely have to have that because if anyone is elected into Tim Wood and they want to take their seat and do their job then they have to be able to get in um that having said that I don't think it should put anyone off standing for office because I think if someone were to be elected into Tim Wood and they happened to have um a disability which meant that they used a wheelchair and they couldn't get out of the wheelchair um then I think government would have to move pretty quickly to to find some kind of solution and let's just come on to that um the the approach does appear to be will fix it when someone needs it rather than things already being in place why why do you think the reactive approach is is quite often taken I think because with a lot of things with government with lack of funding it often does come down to government being reactive unfortunately because there are always pressures and there are always situations which they come to the they come to the fore when there's a need for them you know an absolute urgency for them to be sorted out unfortunately and I think perhaps that that might happen here it might actually at the moment um you know as I said I am I am working on the lift aspect but I do think that these things happen a lot quicker if someone is actually if someone is democratically elected into Tim Wood and they can't take their seat then that is a serious serious situation and I think that that government would react pretty quickly that's great anything I've missed that you wanted to recover. No unfortunately I don't think there's anything else at the moment. Oh other than I could say um I think what's also positive is that um I'm the first Tim Wood representative on the parliamentarians with disabilities network so I think it's it's a good thing that we the art of man has now got representation on that network because sometimes you know the network is there because perhaps governments can't always make the adjustments that they need to make or should be making but when you've got the Commonwealth behind you you've got the weight of the Commonwealth and you know certain benchmarks which parliaments throughout the Commonwealth should be reaching then that gives you a bit more on them. And how does the Isle of Man compare to other parliaments from from your time with that group? Well you've got new parliaments for example Scottish Parliament is absolutely fantastic you know if anyone gets the opportunity to visit the new Scottish Parliament you know not only is it a beautiful building but it is completely accessible but of course it's modern then you've got parliaments I think it's um is it St Helena I think where parliament is in a castle so it just depends what kind of parliament you've inherited but that doesn't mean to say that the ancient parliaments can't be you know made accessible and I think to a certain extent the Commonwealth is quite keen on supporting the Isle of Man on its you know Tim Wood on its accessibility journey because it allows the Commonwealth to be able to say look to other countries this is the oldest continuously running parliament in the world and look what they've done you know they've made it accessible so I think we do have a lot of Commonwealth support behind us on this. 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