CANADALAND
Dear Taliban: Part Two
Join Investigative Reporter Molly Thomas as she lands on the ground in South Asia to uncover the heartbreaking story of a young Afghan girl, with a unique connection to Canada.
In the spring of 2023, The Michener-Deacon Fellowship for Investigative Reporting was awarded to then CTV W5 correspondent, Molly Thomas, for her special project on education in Afghanistan.
Then, as part of a series of nation-wide cuts from Bell Media, Molly was laid off and the story was shelved.
That’s where Canadaland stepped in.
We’ve teamed up with Molly and the Michener-Deacon Fellowship to produce Dear Taliban, a new three-part investigation. Today we share episode two.
Dear Taliban spans three continents, taking listeners from the vice-regal pomp and ceremony of Rideau Hall, to one of the toughest hostile-training programs in the world — all to prepare her for a complex and volatile area of South Asia.
Host: Karyn Pugliese
Credits: Molly Thomas (Reporter), Riley Nimens (Associate Producer), Tristan Capacchione (Audio Editor and Technical Producer), Max Collins (Production Manager), Bruce Thorson (Senior Producer), Karyn Pugliese (Editor-in-Chief)
Additional music by Audio Network
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- Duration:
- 43m
- Broadcast on:
- 08 Jul 2024
- Audio Format:
- mp3
Ryan Reynolds here for Mint Mobile. With the price of just about everything going up during inflation, we thought we'd bring our prices down. So to help us, we brought in a reverse auctioneer, which is apparently a thing. Mint Mobile unlimited, premium wireless! Head over to get 30-30-30, get 30-30, get 20-20, get 20-20, get 20-20, get 15-15, 15-15, just 15 bucks a month. So... Give it a try at mintmobile.com/switch. $45 up for three months plus taxes and fees, promoting for new customers for limited time. Unlimited more than 40 gigabytes per month, slows. Full turns at Mint Mobile.com. A couple of years ago, a cop was shot dead on a deserted pier in the tiny nation of Belize. The only other person there that night was a frightened young woman, found covered in blood. By all appearances, it was an open and shut case. But not in Belize, where this woman was connected to a mysterious billionaire who basically runs the place. Justice would not be serving this case. She's gonna get away with it. Or will she? White Devil, a campsite media original. Listen wherever you get your podcasts. When I think about Afghanistan, I think about two things. My old J-School friend, Nellifor Prasira, and the footage of a plane lifting off a tarmac, with Afghans clinging to the side and falling to their deaths. Nellifor was in my journalism class years ago, and she's written about a half a dozen books and hundreds of articles about Afghanistan's sense. But the first time, she described growing up there. I was surprised. It was so different from what I'd seen on the news. She remembers picnics in a park near her home in Kabul, women with and without veils mixing freely on the streets of urban areas. In Afghanistan, the number of women attending Kabul University increased every year, as did the number of women in politics, medicine, and sports. All that changed in 1978. The year Nellifor says her childhood ended. You know the well-worn list of conflicts that's unraveled since then, the Soviet invasion, the war with the Mujahideen, and Al-Qaeda, then the rise of the Taliban. One night Nellifor's father turned off all the lights in her house, and they just left, in the dark, walking most of the 400 miles to the Pakistan border. I was thinking about that reversal of human rights when Canada joined the coalition in Afghanistan in 2001. More than 40,000 Canadians would serve over 12 years in Afghanistan, the largest deployment of Canadian troops since the Second World War. And as much of that mission was about geopolitics and stabilizing the region, it was also about human rights. Canada spent $2.2 billion to rebuild things the country had lost during decades of war, food security, electricity, roads, basic health services, and schools. There was this glimmer, this moment, where people who had been forced into lives without freedom were being emancipated. A young generation, knowing only whispers of freedom from tales their grandparents told, could reimagine their future. But when Canada departed Afghanistan in 2014, the Taliban and Al-Qaeda insurgencies were destabilizing the government and threatening the population. And so when I saw that footage in 2021, people clinging to the outside of that plane, who does that? I kept thinking, what are they running away from that's worse than that? What was happening inside Afghanistan? Then, out of all the newsrooms and all of Canada that she could have walked into, Mully Thomas walked into mine, wait for it. This episode is brought to you by Elizabeth Gerthardt, Supper Sirifie, Doug Bonner, Kate Etherington, Danie Sproul, Gregory Gertie, Ryan Breedy, and Jonathan. Hi, I'm Jonathan from Halifax, and I'm a social work student. I like Canada land because it gives me Canadian news from a progressive perspective. For example, I just finished the "Why Saviors" series, and I can believe that this all happened, when I wasn't aware of it, so thank you. Before we begin, this episode mentions the Journalist for Human Rights program. JHR is one of the press freedom organizations I volunteered with in 2021 as part of an effort to help journalists and human rights workers escape Afghanistan and relocate to Canada. I did not edit any of Mully Thomas' reporting of those events for this episode. There are hundreds of people here, look like Afghans, there must be something happening. Richard, why don't we drive up, and then we will walk back. So we're just walking up to the Afghan embassy, it's a very busy place, we're not expecting this. The last time you heard from me, I was trying to get into Afghanistan. Well that didn't work out, because the Taliban rejected me, so here I am at an Afghan embassy. I chose to come here, to Pakistan. A country arguably as complex and potentially dangerous as Afghanistan. It hosts the most Afghan refugees in the world. I meet a man named Fayaz, standing on the sidewalk on my way towards the embassy. So what are you waiting for today sir? I'm here to get my marriage certificate. Afghans are here to get their marriage certificate, get their passport extension, their single notification, those papers. You have to have a single certificate too? I don't need it, but my wife needs it. Now that I'm closer, I can see there are hundreds of men trying to push their way to the front of the line. So this, I mean the crowds kind of tell you how many Afghans are living here, there's a lot. Yeah, men, approximately maybe more than 2 million Afghans. Yeah, I've heard even 4 million, right? 2 million or 4 million? That's a huge discrepancy. The truth is, with a porous border and members of the Pashtun community on both sides, nobody really knows. Even the UN and Pakistan have conflicting figures about Afghan refugees. The stats average out to roughly 4 million Afghans here. So most of the Afghans right now living here, they are like their finance support comes from outside of Pakistan. So their families who live in Canada, USA, America, they support them, financially they support them. And have you been here for a long time or are you a newer, a year and a half? Okay. Yeah. So newer arrival? Yeah. I'm new here. Okay. Yeah. Nice to meet you. I realize we're the only women in the crowd. Are the men staring at us because of that? Or because we have recording equipment? I quickly talk my Zoom mic in my bag. You can barely see it, but I am still recording. I think I'll go and just kind of collect some sound. We can both collect sound first. Yep. Oh, that's Riley. She's a friend and former colleague. We met at CTV's W5 a few years back. I've always admired the types of stories she's chased from exploitation in the porn industry to the sexual abuse of female athletes in gymnastics. So when she volunteered to come on this trip, it was a no-brainer. We're hoping to talk to a Taliban member. I mean, why not? We couldn't get into Afghanistan. This might be the closest we can get. On my first day in Islamabad, I met Haya, a 21-year-old Afghan girl. These are the Afghan kabob, the sea kabob we call it. What makes a Afghan kabob different than a kabob you find in Turkey or another country? Perhaps it's the, you know, the sticks that we make the kabob with, or perhaps the way we marinate the kabob because we have special ways and the way we cook it because we cook it with coal and stuff, and you burn it a little bit. You burn it, I like it, I really like it burned. Haya is my guide and translator today, helping me navigate this very Afghan neighborhood in Islamabad. So are you cool with him? Haya? So are you your borders? Learning about Afghan culture. Haya is only able to walk around this area freely because she has the most important paper for any Afghani in Pakistan, a visa. When you have a visa, you can walk freely everywhere, especially this area because this is more like Afghans are staying here, so the police checkups and you know, the patrols and stuff, they haven't here quite often. If you don't have a visa, you could be dragged onto a truck and immediately deported back to Afghanistan. Pakistani police prowl the streets. Many Afghans without visas are in hiding, they know if they get caught, they're dreamed to come to Canada, the US, Australia, while it's over. But how long can they actually hide? Pakistan is not a country that you mess with. It's essentially run by the military. It's a high surveillance hot spot. That means you're watched almost everywhere you go. And the topic of Afghan refugees is well sensitive. On one hand, Pakistan has been a refuge for Afghans during multiple wars. On the other, it's housed, helped and financed the Taliban, fueling its rise to power and the most recent wave of displacement. Everyday Pakistanis have strong feelings about the influx of Afghans in their country. For a long time, we never had a border with Afghanistan, they are doing business, they are like our friends also. But recently, there are many Afghanis who are like, not even registered here. All Pakistani government wants, we should know who is in Pakistan. Well, actually, there were a lot of robberies going around. That was the time that people went against them. That thieves, they come out to be, Afghanis living in tents and everywhere. So that is the thing that peaks the hatred amongst the local people. How they are behaving with them is not good. They are telling them they should leave the country and go out, it's not good. They should give them a resident to stay here also. So not reporting these people. Women are suffering, they are too much, I know. But they should give them also security everywhere. We are all human beings and God created all of us. So, does this in any way remind you of Kabul? It does remind you of home. Everyone is Afghan here, so it would give you a sense of home, but not really home. Not quite. Not quite. So, this, I think we take a left here. Let's try it. Yeah. It definitely looks a little different than Islamabad, a little more densely populated. It's like rickshaws in the street. We pass small shops that look like dilapidated jigsaw puzzles. People are peddling oranges and apples on carts. The area is poor. Children are begging for money in the streets. We're here because I've heard about a young girl named Marwa with a very unique story. It's unique because she was granted a visa to come to Canada. That would have offered a new life in a new country, an opportunity to walk the streets freely, to escape the shadow of war, to study and to work in whatever she wants, but most Canadians take for granted. She had that visa, but her family took her name off that list. I have to find out why. We can't tell you exactly where we are because we want to protect young Marwa. Riley is with me, and our local translator, Haya, is here too. She's roughly around the same age as Marwa. Finally, we find Marwa's place. I can't shake the eyes of the young men watching us. There's at least four idling around the stairwell. We start making our way up to the third floor. We walk into what feels like a big closet, a single room, not much bigger than a few parking spots. This is Marwa's home. This tiny space is where she eats, sleeps, and hides away from the world. She's a bit shy. This is my first time to talk English with someone. Your English is quite good, but I think it's not good. Marwa is a sweet-looking girl with a round face. Her conservative clothes hide her figure, but as she speaks to me, she's nervously adjusting her pink hijab. I think I know English, but when I talk to someone, I didn't know how to talk because there is no one I practice with them. Surprisingly, this young woman has taught herself English through YouTube. She's only 20 years old, and she's alone in this country. Do you know people around here? No, the first floor there is all single, the boys on this next floor there is up and east. And are there any other single women? No. No. Just you. Marwa grew up near Kandahar, a very traditional area in southern Afghanistan. You may remember it because Canada had its largest military base there during the war. At home, Marwa would never leave the house without a brother or an uncle by her side. She'd never make decisions for herself without family input. Violence for her is terrifying. A long life is not good for a lady in Afghanistan, Afghanistan. It's good on Canada, America, Europe, countries, but no one can do it here. So is it safe for you to walk around the area? No, it's not safe. That's because the one time she tried to get groceries, she was mugged by two Pakistani men. They stole a precious gift her mother had given her. Someone here stole those gold bangles, stolen my bangles, stolen my bangles, my money, and also my passport. Then I cried too much aloud, and then they gave me only my passport. So for the most part, you are just living within these four walls. Yeah. If you don't feel safe to go outside, how do you eat? How do you get the basic necessities that you need? It's too much heart. I talk sometimes with our Plaza security car, and I told him, I give you money, and then you bring me some things for me. He's a good man. He brings me some things for a week. The only time she leaves her apartment, she says, is to renew her visitor visa. But to do that, she has to travel to the Afghan border to get an exit and re-entry stamp every three months. This is why her passport was so important. How long does it take you? Every time you have to go back to the border, its 24 hours come from Pakistan to Afghanistan. It takes 24 hours, and how do you move? Yeah, it's too much heart. On the bus, there is all men, and there is Pakistani armies come to bus every night, all of the night, seven times, eight times, so the Pakistani armies take a money from me. Marwa claims it's a shakedown on the bus, where she has to pay up to stay in the country. So they take money from you? Yeah. That's the only way that you get to keep moving. Yeah, that is just only the way that I save myself from the jail of Pakistan. Marwa's life did not have to be like this. Most of her immediate family is not in Afghanistan. They are in Canada. Next stop, 56-4 foot-1 drive. This episode is brought to you by BetterHelp. 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That'll get you 10% off of your first month. That's BetterHelp, BetterHELP.com/CanadaLan. This episode is brought to you by Squarespace. Squarespace is the all-in-one website platform for entrepreneurs and anybody else who wants to make a great website. Their whole thing is that you should be able to have a website as good as anybody's website and they keep making it better and easier. They have AI tools that take you through a guided design process to make sure that your website looks great but also works great. They have search engine optimization tools. They have flexible payments for your customers and clients, seamless checkout for people who come and want to give you money. They even have integrated invoicing from vetting leads to receiving payments via invoices in one's streamlined and customizable workflow. Squarespace is just the place to do it, to get that website. Here's how you do it. Go to squarespace.com/CanadaLan for a free trial. You can build your whole website for free. When you want to actually launch it, you use the code CanadaLan that gets a 10% off of your first purchase of a website or a domain. It's squarespace.com/CanadaLan. So I just got off the bus and I am in an area northeast of Toronto. I didn't know if they were in a home or an apartment, but guessing by this street, there's only one option, looking at a lot of run down apartments, places where you can see that there's not really blinds in the windows. There's a lot of Muslim women around me wearing their job, just based on the demographics of the bus and people walking around the streets, it looks like a very heavily populated refugee and immigrant community, probably people just starting off their life in Toronto. I'm here today trying to track down Marwa's family. I walked around a little bit, almost missed it, found it. We are here. Hello, hi, how are you? Hi, I'm Molly, nice to meet you, nice to meet you. Oh, you look like your sister. Oh, really? Yeah, I can see it, I can see it. Yeah. Come on. And this is another sister? Yeah. Okay, I am Molly. She is my young sister. She is my young sister. It's a younger sister. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Marwa also has a nephew she's never met. Her older sister, Asma, gave birth after coming to Canada. We have bought tea and milk, which one do you prefer? The tea with milk, that's good. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Marwa's brother. Marwa's brother. Who was the cleaner for the Canadian Army in Afghanistan is extremely shy, and he hasn't learned English yet, but his older sister, Asma, is fluent, so I'm chatting with her. I met her sister. She's a lovely girl. We were just like twins. I'm about to ask the question that has been haunting me ever since I left Islamabad. Why with Marwa's name taken off that Canadian visa list? I'll admit, it's awkward. I even feel weird asking it. So Asma, take me back to August 2021, because I'm trying to understand why you're on this side of the world, and she's on the other side of the world. I wish she was not engaged. She was single. She wanted to come with us because my brother was working with Canadian Army and we need to leave the country, but unfortunately, her husband was warning as you can took her to Canada with your family. When the Taliban took over Afghanistan, Marwa was engaged. Now it's not the same as in Canada. These religious commitments that involve both families are tough to break. We talked to Marwa about it in Pakistan. At the time when these visas came from Canada, you were very young. At the time I was very young, I was 17 young. I left that sink in. She hadn't even finished high school. Yeah, I was engaged and also I was on Nika. Sorry. What does that mean? Nika means that Islam that when one boy and a girl come on the relationship. Hiya, my guide and translator steps in to help me understand the culture. Nika is like Islamic marriage. Because it marriages in Islam in countries like Afghanistan and Pakistan and Islamic countries, the marriage is basically called Nika, but it's not like in a relationship. She didn't know her husband of the time. It's just like Islamic marriage. So like that, like if you're in it, you are married? Yes. So getting married at 17 to someone that you've never seen before, was it your choice? No, that's my family choice. Sadly, this is very normal in Afghanistan. Almost 30% of girls are married off before the age of 18. These are the good things. I mean, look at first position in MSXL class, women's leadership development, who's my girl? No, not not. A once promising student, Marwa dreamed of becoming a pilot one day, but school was no longer an option, now that she was basically married and expected to produce children. And when you got married at 17, how old was your husband at that time? At the 10, 13, 30, 31. So yeah, 12, 13 year difference, it's drastic. Yeah, I was a child. Marwa had her childhood ripped away, staunch religious traditions further complicated her life. Remember, this was all happening when Afghanistan was crumbling, falling into the hands of the Taliban. Because she was engaged, she had no choice but to stay in Afghanistan. She shows me her Canadian family visa from 2021. I can see her mother's name, her brother's name, her sisters. And there it is, her name. She says her future husband's family threatened violence if her name was not struck from that list. So you had an opportunity to come to Canada. And you're telling me that your future in-laws basically said, no, you're not leaving. Yeah, I have a opportunity, we have a opportunity. My mom, my brother, my two sister and I, we had a visa. There is a special family visa that there is written by Canadian people that these families or these names are allowed to Canada and they can come. Do you feel like you missed your chance to come to Canada? Yeah, I missed my chance. Mar was family got on that plane to Canada in 2021, leaving her behind in Afghanistan. What came next was worse. She alleges that her husband and his family started to beat her. She shows me the scars on her body. There's a lump on her skull. It indents slightly when you touch it. It's probably the size of a tuning. I wonder. What did he do to her? That's from your husband? Yeah. He pushed me like this side of the wall. She says the abuse continued for years and she was treated like a servant in the house. Mar was says they constantly fought. Then, after allegedly beating her and robbing her of a chance to come to Canada, Mar was husband Sano used for her anymore, so he divorced her. Marwa had nowhere to go, so she fled to Pakistan to get away from her husband's controlling family. Meanwhile, in Canada, Marwa's sister, Asma, has been desperately trying to bring her here. When I was pregnant for my first baby, I was pregnant of eight months, but I was knocking every door. She says she went from churches to mosques, refugee settlement organizations to Afghan women's collectives begging for a private sponsor. Everyone was already helping Afghans. They just couldn't take on anymore. I cry for them just because I was asking for helping my sister and they told me that we can't do anything else. There are many people innovating this who are like a family of 10 or 15, we are helping them. So, I just kindly ask them that it's only one person you have to help her. Asma also reached out to Immigration and Refugee Citizenship Canada, or IRCC, multiple times pleading her sister's case. More than like 10 or 20 times, and anytime I call or send an email to IRCC and asking for the update, they are telling me no, the file is closed. Asma shows me the scores of emails she has sent to her local MP's office. He confirms Marwa's original visa file is no more. As a Hail Mary, Asma even tried applying for a visitor visa for her sister. But last month, that was rejected. All the while, Marwa is spiraling in Pakistan. My life is too much bad and I don't want to be alive, so I try three times for what Koshita's showing. She's tried for suicide. For suicide. I try for three times towards the side, but still I am alive, you tried to kill yourself. Yeah. I can't do it anymore. Every day I try to find that way that I kill myself, I don't know how I kill myself. I just eat medicine and medicine, medicine. Now I am alive just for my mother. She's a hard patient. I can't keep her too much more attention. I know Marwa's mom, Jamila, cooks to keep herself busy. She's hard at work in her small Canadian kitchen. She doesn't speak English, so her eldest daughter, Asma, is translating. As I study her face, I realize she has the same almond-shaped eyes as Marwa. Can I ask what is Marwa's favorite food? Marwa likes mostly she was eating everything, but her favorite food was fries and eggs. The fries? The fries are the ones that went? Yeah. She liked the most. Yes. Out of all the amazing Afghan rice and meat and kebab, she likes fries? Yes. Yeah, that's what she likes. Her mom puts on a brave face, but you can see she's in pain. It was Jamila, this mother who sealed her daughter's fate. She took Marwa's name off that Canadian visa list. She said she only did it to save her son from the Taliban. That's because her son, Marwa's brother, worked for the Canadian army. She knew she had to get him out of harm's way. Yeah, and I wanted my son to be in safe place. That's Marwa's youngest sister translating. I had two sons before, but one of them got killed in Afghanistan, so I was scared for my other son. Scared, because the son that was killed, was killed by the Taliban years before. Jamila wasn't willing to put the life of her second son at risk. Put yourself in Jamila's shoes. What would you do? It sounds like a heartbreaking choice, because you're a mother, and you want to protect your son, and you want to also protect your daughter. That was like lots of stress, and her brain was not working, but she had to leave her, because maybe they will tell the Taliban that her son was working with the Canadian army, so she was scared about that, so she had to leave her daughter. Did you ever think that Marwa's life would turn out the way that it has? She had never thought, I think, that way, because she thought she will join a new family, and that will be her home, and she will get married and be happy. Do you regret taking Marwa's name off that list? When I'm taking her name, I hear her name. I think I'm dying, and then it was so hard to take her name out of that list. It's hard. I see the tears. Jimmy lies, you know, I can't even fathom what it's like to be a mother in this situation. So, I don't even know when it's the day and when it's the night, it's so hard for me to think about her, and she's in a country where she doesn't belong to be, like, it's not a country which is safe for her, but she's still there and I'm really scared. Marwa's case stands out because how many people in that desperate time turned down a Canadian visa. Back in Pakistan, a call from her mother, Jamila, interrupts our interview. This is the call Marwa longs for every day. We part ways so she can have some privacy. As we walk away from this shoebox apartment, Riley and I can't get this young woman off our minds. I feel like both of us are just, like, exhausted from just hearing, like, the pain and what she's gone through. I would say in 15 years there are three times in my career that I can't hold back the tears. We're sitting here both of us trying to hold back the tears right now, and you just can't dream up a situation that is as terrible as hers. She's 20 years old. She's a baby. Like, when I was 20 years old, I was in third-year university. Starting my life, I knew very little about the world and this woman, this girl, is divorced, abandoned, and living on her own in an area of the world where women are not independent and living on their own. It's like all the choices in her life have been taken away from her. It is like horrific to listen to. Coming up on our final episode of "Dear Taliban." This is her, Erykor. That's Haya getting into the car. If you've forgotten who she is, I'll remind you. She's been our guide and translator today, but there's something else I should tell you about her, a secret I've been keeping from you until now. Can I just memorize this? Yeah, I had to memorize this. How long are you here? Like, 12, 13, no teleprompters. No. That secret? Haya can't walk down the street without being recognized. She is famous. In our final episode, we find out why and what that fame has cost her. That's your Canada Land. If you value this podcast, please support us. We rely on listeners like you to keep paying for journalism. As a supporter, you'll get premium access to all of our shows ad-free, including early releases and bonus content. You'll also get our exclusive newsletter, discounts on Candleland merch, invites and tickets to our live and virtual events, and more than anything, you'll be part of the solution to Canada's journalism crisis, and you'll be keeping our work free and accessible to everybody. Don't join us now. Click the link in your show notes or go to Candleland.com/join. You can email Jesse at Jesse at Candleland.com. He really does read them all. Our website is Candleland.com. Molly Thomas reported this episode. Our senior producer is Bruce Thorson. Audio production and editing from Tristan Capakione. I'm the editor-in-chief, Karen Fulyese, and our theme music is by so-called. Syndication is handled by CFUV 101.9 FM in Victoria. Visit them online at CFUV.ca. You can listen to Candleland add free on Amazon Music included with Prime. A couple of years ago, a cop was shot dead on a deserted pier in the tiny nation of Belize. The only other person there that night was a frightened young woman, found covered in blood. By all appearances, it was an open and shut case, but not in Belize, where this woman was connected to a mysterious billionaire who basically runs the place. White Devil, a campsite media original. Listen wherever you get your podcasts.