SEO 101

Page Speed, Ranking Factors and the Eminent Google Caffeine Update

Ross and John continue their analysis of the recent interview between Eric Enge and Google Senior Engineer Matt Cutts, plus they discuss the need for page speed due the changes in the ranking factors in the Google Algorithm, plus they look ahead to the eminent Google Caffeine Update. Our Sponsors: * Producer Brasco: As digital professionals and business owners, we understand the critical importance of a secure and high-performing website. That's why I want to talk to you about Kinsta, a managed WordPress hosting provider that delivers exceptional speed, security, and reliability. Kinsta's infrastructure is optimized for WordPress, ensuring your site loads lightning-fast and ranks well in search results. They utilize Google Cloud's premium tier network and C3D virtual machines, which significantly boost performance. In fact, Kinsta customers often experience up to a 200% increase in site speed just by migrating to their platform. Security is paramount, and Kinsta provides enterprise-grade measures to protect your valuable data. They are one of the few WordPress hosting providers with SOC2 certification, guaranteeing the highest level of security for your website. Kinsta's MyKinsta dashboard offers a user-friendly interface with a comprehensive suite of tools to manage your site efficiently. From cache control and debugging to redirects and CDN setup, MyKinsta simplifies website administration. For SEO 101 listeners, Kinsta offers specific advantages. Their platform is optimized for speed, a crucial ranking factor in search engine algorithms. Their security measures protect your site from malware and hacking attempts that could damage your online presence. And their expert support team is available 24/7 to assist with any technical issues that may arise. If you're serious about your online presence and want a hosting provider that prioritizes performance, security, and support, I highly recommend Kinsta. Visit kinsta.com today to learn more and take advantage of their limited-time offer for new customers. That's k-i-n-s-t-a dot com. Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Duration:: 39m
Broadcast on:: 12 Apr 2010
Audio Format:: other

Ross and John continue their analysis of the recent interview between Eric Enge and Google Senior Engineer Matt Cutts, plus they discuss the need for page speed due the changes in the ranking factors in the Google Algorithm, plus they look ahead to the eminent Google Caffeine Update.

Our Sponsors:
* Producer Brasco: As digital professionals and business owners, we understand the critical importance of a secure and high-performing website. That's why I want to talk to you about Kinsta, a managed WordPress hosting provider that delivers exceptional speed, security, and reliability. Kinsta's infrastructure is optimized for WordPress, ensuring your site loads lightning-fast and ranks well in search results. They utilize Google Cloud's premium tier network and C3D virtual machines, which significantly boost performance. In fact, Kinsta customers often experience up to a 200% increase in site speed just by migrating to their platform. Security is paramount, and Kinsta provides enterprise-grade measures to protect your valuable data. They are one of the few WordPress hosting providers with SOC2 certification, guaranteeing the highest level of security for your website. Kinsta's MyKinsta dashboard offers a user-friendly interface with a comprehensive suite of tools to manage your site efficiently. From cache control and debugging to redirects and CDN setup, MyKinsta simplifies website administration. For SEO 101 listeners, Kinsta offers specific advantages. Their platform is optimized for speed, a crucial ranking factor in search engine algorithms. Their security measures protect your site from malware and hacking attempts that could damage your online presence. And their expert support team is available 24/7 to assist with any technical issues that may arise. If you're serious about your online presence and want a hosting provider that prioritizes performance, security, and support, I highly recommend Kinsta. Visit kinsta.com today to learn more and take advantage of their limited-time offer for new customers. That's k-i-n-s-t-a dot com.

Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

This webmaster radio.fm program is made possible, in part by the following. Ascon 2010, where affiliates always attend for free, June 21st through 23rd in Denver. Make your plans now to be at the most affordable, informative, interactive, trade show anywhere. Haven't made your plans to join us, then it's time to act fast. We have secured a limited number of hotel rooms at the fabulous Hyatt Regency Convention Center Hotel, the official host hotel of Afghan 2010. Book your reservations at our exclusive Afghan 2010 special rate by going to bit.ly/cheaphotel that's bit.ly/cheaphotel. These rooms are guaranteed to be sold out fast. Remember, Afghan 2010 is giving you two days of back-to-back session, keynote presentations, exhibit access, and incredible nighttime networking for free. Plus, we're giving you unbelievable room specials for a limited time. Book your rooms now by going to bit.ly/cheaphotel, Ascon 2010. The trade show that's free for all affiliates, June 21st through 23rd in Denver. Register today at AFMCoM2010.com. The opinions expressed on this webmasterradio.fm program are those of the host, guest, and callers. And do not reflect those of the staff, management, or advertisers of webmasterradio.fm. Any rebroadcast or retransmission of this program, without the express written consent of webmasterradio.fm, is prohibited. Welcome to SEO 101, your introductory course on Search Engine Optimization. So, turn on your computers, open your minds, grab your mouse, and get ready to get back to the basis. SEO 10101 on webmasterradio.fm is now in session. Hello, and welcome to SEO 101 on webmasterradio.fm. This is Ross Dunn, CEO of Step 4th Web Marketing, and my co-host is the is none other than the John Carcutt, Director of Organic Search for MediaWiz. None other? There is no one else that you're sure. Did I tell you I'm actually coming up to Canada the end of July, but I'm going to be on Ontario side. I'm going to a classic rock music festival. I can't wait to get up there. Where are you going to go see the who and all that or what? I wish I had to listen for me, it's like Leonard Skinnerd, Hart, Ted Nugent, Alice Cooper, Kansas. It's like all these great classic rock bands all in one weekend festival. I'm just dying up there. I have to grow the mullet. Yeah, I've got I've got a hat with one built in I'll probably wear. Not exactly sure how the mullet connects, but it just seems to get any feather to hair and you know that fun stuff. That sounds like a good time. It's too bad you're on the other side of the continent, but you can drive it. Well, last show we talked a bit about the Eric Enga interview with Matt Cutts, and there was a ton left we didn't get to, and we just actually tried to replay a bit of what we did last time because we weren't 100% sure what we covered. I crossed out most of it, but we apologize in advance if there's anything we quickly cover again, but we are going to leave a start where we left off. So that was 302s. Do not flow PR. So essentially that is much more straight than that. That was something Matt Cutts said that if you use a 302 reader act, which is often the case for advertisements, that does not flow PR, which is a good tip. I mean, like I was saying here in our notes, not a huge surprise at least to SEO. Yeah, it's one of those things we kind of knew, and we really did know, but it's like nice to hear it. So we have something to point to now if a client pushes back and says, "What do you mean?" and says, "What do you mean?" and says, "Right here." We guess. Exactly. And it's clients love us for doing that. Well, Matt Cutts said no. We have to go to that range where we're really not that much, not respected, I don't think. Yeah, so that's important. I actually ran across an instance this week where I'm recommending 302s for the first time I think in my career. I'm actually recommending someone do a 302 redirect instead of a 301. And it's just kind of a side note here that they're building a new site and they have a front-end or back-end and the back-end is a secure banking system. And there's all kinds of legal regulations and structures and things they have to deal with. And they're building the back-end first, but they have to put it on HTTPS. So in the meantime, they're asking, "Well, can we put our regular site on HTTPS too?" Because it would be a headache to have the two different ones why we're developing. And that's an instance. If they're going to put the main site on HTTPS temporarily, I said, "Yes, but we have to do 302 redirects instead of 301s." So when you switch it back to the normal, it's going to switch back which thing you're going to have lost all that weight. So I was doing this forever. And so the first time I actually found a really good use where I recommended using 302s. Excellent. Well, I was actually speaking at the BC Social Media Summit just two nights ago. It was great. It was a fundraiser for the Canadian Cancer Society, which is kind of a nice add-on to help out a bit. But one of the things I had to research was all about SEO and its implications to social media. My angle was anyway. And I was looking into Facebook just out of curiosity. And again, this is no surprise to me who already done this research, but I'm not a social media guy. So it was intriguing to me to find out that business pages on Google, all links on them going out, all external links going from your business page on Google. That's just Facebook, I should say, are all 302. So there's really not a lot of juice there. That sucks. Facebook is like a black hole. I mean, yeah, from an SEO standpoint and link building standpoint and API standpoint and what you could do with it from an external, it's a black hole. I mean, there's a lot of great stuff going on inside there, but none of it escapes. The wall garden. I hate that it is too. And the most user and friendly wall gardener experience. Anyways, it was intriguing. Now that said, if we were all sitting around a table, would we really, as SEOs and we're talking, frankly, do we really believe that Google's going to treat those one person as 302 still? You know, if they've got a lot of links going out, they're going to go, this is from Facebook business page. A lot of people are looking to it. You're linking off. We're going to say, okay, a certain amount of decay or a certain amount of PR has been passed. That's true. I mean, the pages, the pages are themselves are getting indexed. The business pages and profile pages in the group. So they're getting indexed. And in some cases, you can get them ranked fairly well. So you're right. I mean, Google is handling these pages and like Wikipedia or some other high profile sites, they can say they're no-followed. They can say that they're still going to deal with it. You're right. Yeah, I mean, I'm not sure. I think that's probably why in a lot of cases, Google's discolzes hint, you know, because in certain circumstances, they don't really want to listen to, is it Zuckerberg or Facebook? Zuckerberg, Zuckerberg, Jeff, Mark. They don't really want to listen to those guys who are trying to keep a wall garden when they're exposing stuff. They're exposing stuff. It's not what we're putting a 302 in them. They're forcing on us. So you would think that Google would sort of nullify that to some degree. That said, you know, we're following the letter of the law. Those links do not flow PR. Have you seen a lot of people trying to use Facebook as a spam tool? I mean, because maybe it's a really good methodology for Facebook to help reduce people trying to use them to spam. Yeah, because I have to do anything. Yeah, I haven't seen a lot of people using Facebook as a spamming tool. Maybe I'm telling you, maybe I'm telling you the right place. I'm sure it happens here and there. But yeah, let's not give them any ideas. Yes, I didn't say a thing. Now, I'm very, but I haven't taken notes. I'm fairly certain we've touched on this in the last time, but do you want to take the next one? Oh, but the canonicals, the canonical tag. In this interview, Matt was kind of referencing. I don't know if there's Eric or Matt that was referencing that canonicals people are using as, this is a quote, "a poor man's 301 redirect." So since they opened it from what you're telling us, even before they opened up the Canonicals to Prostomaine Canonical consolidation, that once you can go across the main, people are using it as a 301 redirect. If they can't get an actual build or create real 301 redirects, they do the canonical tag and it kind of, it does the same thing. Right, and you know what, that refers to my memory that we did talk about this last time, so we should skip through this. But yeah, again, they're hints, not directives, and I thought that was important. Now, the one thing, we did touch on parameters last time, but I want to make sure, again, that this is noted, the ignore parameter setting in your Google Webmaster Tools is essentially a 301, of sorts. So if you're saying, ignore this particular parameter, it's like a canonical. It's rooting that URL so that it now looks like the other one or so on. But it's almost like this server side instead of a page side trick, so they're doing it in their back end. You're not doing it on your front end, precisely. So between all of these tools, you can really whittle down any kind of duplicate content. So again, there is no penalty for duplicate content. It's just, I guess the only penalty quote unquote is that the content doesn't get as much exposure as a circuit. So yeah, it's a filter. It filters out too much content. If it's done wrong, you filter out stuff you don't want filtered out. If it's done correct, the stuff you want to show is the stuff that's going to show. But actually, it brings up a question, though, because during the same interview, everybody was talking about the fact that Maps had 301s, and we talked about this last time, you end up, your PR in a 301 is decayed over time, or even more immediately. If the ignore parameters is seen as a 301, and it does a 301, does that cause the owner factor causes any kind of decay in authority or lynch use? That's a good point. I would say it's likely not because it's done on Google side. I would be surprised if it did. I would too, but it's interesting that they use that as an example of essentially a 301. So that opens up a whole new can of worms because 301s do all kinds of different things than you would expect from just ignoring a parameter. Now, one thing we should just jump into here before we go into the next bit is that as of today, it's now known, this is on search engine land, now known that Google has incorporated page speed into its algorithm. So it's live. That's fun. And page speed is extremely interesting and it's going to catch a lot of people off guard. I haven't read that article yet, so I'm going to go run and read that. But when they say it's live, they're just saying, "Okay, it's live," or that it's gradually, it's been gradually being adopted, or was it like a switch? Boom, now it's on. Do we now? It's a quote to quote Matt McGee who wrote the article. He says that if you were going to be impacted, you already have. It's been up for a couple of weeks. Yeah, there's a link for it now. It's on the upfront page right now of search engine land. Now, of course, everyone just, you know, we are recording us on Friday. So it's probably going to be old news by the time you read this or listen to this, if you say, but it's still good news. I think I think page speed is a brilliant idea. And if you got on this soon enough, you certainly had a little warning. It's a big improvement. We have, at Step 4, we did some major changes, major. And we've brought our time way down for page speed. So we're feeling pretty good about that. Did you see any shift in terms of trying to rank for when you did that? You know, honestly, I haven't looked. We're going to have to talk to Braco and get that part out, Ross. Come on. Yeah, I know. I've been waiting for someone to call me on it. It's the whole cobbler's kids, the shoes for the cobbler's kids thing. And it's an embarrassingly bad excuse. It's bad. I've got some business, I'm busy making my clients happy versus my own site. I'm more focused right now, these on our pitches and stuff. And there's a lot to be done. So, you know, before we move on, first of all, we should talk maybe a bit more about page speed when we get back. We're just going to take a quick break. SEO 101 will be back right after recess. How would you like to not ever have to deal with a gatekeeper again? Can't find the direct contact for the decision maker? Stop calling the main directory. Because now there's lead researcher from eGraber, the one stop source for finding contact information online. eGraber finds email addresses or lets you find people with their email address. Just look up a company name and eGraber gives you a complete list of names, IDs, email addresses, and phone numbers that you need fast. Think of the time that you'll save with lead researcher. Learn more about lead researcher at www.eGraber.com/WMR. That's eGraber.com/WMR. Looking for an affiliate network that can package every solution an advertiser or publisher needs in one account? 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We then jumped quickly into the latest news that Google's algorithm, at least in the stateside, I think it's Google.com, has implemented the page speed consideration into its algorithm. If your site's super slow, you're going to start to feel it. Actually, I saw one funny joke on Twitter, someone saying, "Oh, man, the Tribune screwed." Nice. There are some really clunky sites out there. I'm really glad they've done this. It's interesting too that it's focusing just on page speed, because I personally believe there's a large chunk of the caffeine is already implemented. I don't think it's going to be the Florida update where all of a sudden, everything changed. They've been rolling this out gradually for months now, since February. I'm seeing a lot of shifts in ranking based on content, freshness of content. I've already started seeing page speed as well, but now this confirms that. It's going to be literally, it won't be long. I'm saying by the end of this month, they're going to declare caffeine is fully active. Somebody will. Maybe Madal had another article. I think it's funny that it seems to me like part of their ride over at Google is getting this stuff out there and seeing how people actually notice it. They put it other subtly as possible, so they can finally say, "Oh, we've had it up there a while. Didn't you notice?" That's their new catchphrase. Didn't you notice? Yeah, exactly. As long as it doesn't take on the same stigma that it has for ask, did you notice we're here? Exactly. I actually had a friend, I don't know if everyone knows this, but Google's doing an interface redesign as well for their serve pages. They're going to actually mirror what Bing is doing. I don't know if you've seen it or not, Ross, but you can go out for Google's redesign. They're going to have a left-hand column. Your search results are going to be on the right side of a left-hand column, and you'll still have a right-hand column of ads. You'll have a column on either side of their search results now. People have been seeing it. I personally had a friend show up on their site yesterday, the day before. It's definitely being tested all over the place. It's going to be interesting when that happens. I must be getting older or something, but I don't like the idea of change. Yeah, you're getting older. I always tell people, "Look, if you're scared of change, there's one thing to think of. You can't get better if you don't change." Yes, there's no doubt about it. And then you want that. It's a perfect place for them to do work. I mean, they've got so much space. As long as they don't completely sit, it's a huge advantage. It's clean. It's very clean. So a little more about page speed. There are a ton of tools out there that will help you determine what your site needs to improve on. A Google Webmaster Tools gives you a bit of an overview in their labs section of your Google Webmaster Tools account. It's got the Site Performance report and it gives you in there a bit of a rundown. There's also Wyslow, a Yahoo widget you can load into your Firefox. Actually, what it is, it's a Wyslow is a site that you can report your stuff to. And what it is is Google has created a page speed tool that's really an add-on to Firebug, which is an extension to Firefox. So it's like this big convoluted thing. You have to have Firefox, you have to have Firebug installed. And if you're an SEO, you should have Firebug installed anyway. Great, great. Probably one of my favorite extensions for Firefox. But what Google did is they made a plugin that actually updates Firebug to allow you to do these page speed testings through your Firefox browser. But it is interesting because there is a Wyslow. And Wyslow as well. Yeah, so they're all for Firebug and to see the differences. But between the two of them, you still get a lot of great tips. Often, the most common issue by far is Gzip functionality. And for those that don't know what that is, from what I understand, and layman when it comes to server stuff or close to it, it's essentially, you know, like WinZip, like you've got that kind of a zip program to zip files with this, in this concept, the server zips the file. So it takes that much less time to load. Now that's page speed in terms of like download time. But they're also talking about, and this is really key, every single piece or image on your page or anything that has to be checked online is a losing all my words. Anyways, it all takes time because I have to do DNS checks. They have to go to it, get it, come back, go to it, get it, come back. So the less times that happens, the faster your page results, which is another major issue. Yeah, and to that point, something when I was going through the tools, and the great thing about the tool that Google created, when they give you your report card, so they give you like this report card of all these different items they analyzed with their tool. And each one has literally an A through F create with 65, 70, 90, just like you went back in high school. And when you get this, you can click on each one of these items in the report card, and it takes you to a section on the Google site that explains exactly what that is, why it's important, what you can do to make it better, and why that will help. It's like the most open Google's ever been about anything in their history, I think it really impressed me. But one of the things I was reading that is like, wow, I didn't think of that. So when we go through design school and you become a designer, they always tell you, you know, make, optimize your images, make them as small as you can. And if you have an image that's 16 by 16 pixels, make sure it's 16 by 16 pixels, you don't want to load a 250 by 250 pixel in that same spot, right? Because it's big image in the little spot, you don't need that. Very common. Yeah, and that's everybody learned that and that's the way everybody learned designing. They tell you, no, if you're using that 250 by 250 picture somewhere else in your site, and it's going to load anyway, put it in that 16 by 16 spot and size it using style sheets. That way, no matter what, you're always calling one image instead of different size versions of the of the same image. And you just pick the biggest one and you load it once and then you use it everywhere on your site. I see what the logic is, but I don't see the logic in having, let's say, three images on your page and they're all huge showed rendered small. That's going to be a low time from hell. See, it depends. To me, when I hear that, I'm thinking, okay, we're talking graphic elements on your site. We're not talking like a photograph that's enhancing an article. That's going to be a one-off type of thing. And I agree completely. But if you have like a portrait of somebody on your site that's like an author and on one page, it's a 16 by 16 pixel, because in another page, it's a 36 by 36 pixel, because it's a little bit more emphasized. Load the 36 by 36, you only have to load that once and it's in your cache, no matter which page you go on your site, no matter which size is being called, it's already in your cache and you've already loaded it. You know, I see definitely the wisdom in doing that in real writing, in some cases. Like I look at, I'm looking at my own page now thinking that and I think, you know, I've got my logo there and that's pretty big. Well, anywhere else we show that logo would be probably a good idea to have that shrunken, if we're ever showing it, showing it in a smaller version because it's already being loaded. In fact, when I did a page speed score for our site, I mean, I know there's stuff we still need to do, but it said leverage browser caching. So there you go, that's probably part of the issue right there. Combining at CSS is massive, because I guess style sheet requires, of course, another DNS lookup, and if that's what it's called, a grab essentially, server calls, I think. So that's an issue. Well, I mean, I've seen many sites, most of my client sites have 30, like, not most, it's the big ones have like a scene amount of CSS. I'm like, yeah, how are we going to condense those? I mean, that's just a name. Yeah, they really would be a name error, but apparently it helps. Well, anyways, we got a lot to learn. I know our web designers certainly do that we all work with, and they better take a note of this, because clients should be, will be, and should be now demanding a higher quality page layout in terms of quality speed. So let's take a quick break, and when we get back, we're going to move on to some of the other points from Matt's discussion. This is a test of the PR web content and news delivery system from PR web and PRwebauthor.com. If this was a real release date, your story would reach more than 30,000 journalists, 250,000 RSS subscribers, and just over 30,000 unique websites. PR web can reach your target audience online, drive traffic to your website, achieve high rankings on search engines, and get your content on top news sites like Yahoo News. Editors are available 24/7 to help you optimize your content for maximum exposure to over 70 million people in the US alone. 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Anyway, I ask, "That's right, ma'am. Anyway, you ask." Let me get this straight. If I wanted your CEO to deliver my check while juggling flaming machetes on the back of an Asian elephant, all I have to do is ask, "Correct." Within-demand affiliates, you can tell us exactly how you want your payouts and we will deliver. Could you hold on for a second? Someone's at the door. Wow, you aren't kidding. We are in demand. You can be too. Sign up today at the letter ndemandaffiliates.com. Search for solutions Mondays at 7 p.m. Eastern, 4 p.m. Pacific, or on demand anytime inside the internet marketing channel, only on webmasterradio.fm. Okay, class. Take your seats and no talking. Recess is over and SEO 101 is back in session, only on webmasterradio.fm. Welcome back to SEO 101 on webmasterradio.fm. With John Carcutt, director of organic search for media, it's very accurate. Why is that funny? And myself, Ross Dunn, CEO of Step 4th Live Marketing Inc. I'm just getting used to it. See, I didn't laugh when you said CEO, but I'm going to start it to keep this up. Fair enough, fair enough. Okay, so we were just talking about page speed and honestly, it's going to come a lot more over the next few shows, I'm sure, because there's going to be more and more info about it as it comes out, and it's frankly very cool. I'm very happy with that, and excited to get everyone's sights that much better. So do you want to take the next bit there? Actually, I was going to ask you to take that, because I didn't read that part of the article. I was hoping you'd explain it to me. Sure. Well, first of all, I was hoping you'd be able to explain what the get process is, because I know that's something you've talked about, you've actually mentioned a get process before, haven't you? I think that we're talking about something a bit different here. Let's explain what the question is. Everybody understands what we're talking about first. Yeah, that'd be good. So Google prefers the "get" process versus the "head" process to determine how fresh content is. Now, before you've mentioned the conditional get, right? Conditional get, yes. So what that is, that's a setting on your server that allows the engines. So the default, most of the times the conditional get is the turns off. So if you turn conditional get on on your server, the bots can hit a page and look and see when the last time that page was updated. So it'll get to the exact time and date. And the next time it comes by, if that time and date has not changed, it'll just keep on going to the next page. It won't take the time to dig into that page deeper. It speeds up the process. It allows the, if you don't have a lot of pages changing, but you have a very deep site, it allows the bots to get deeper into your site because they can bypass some pages and get to something they might not have already seen. So that's the conditional get. There is an issue with conditional get if you're on a shared hosting environment because a lot of hosts that do the shared hosting, for some reason or another, they either don't want to take the time to switch that over or if one person requests it, they don't know how it's going to impact the other ones so they don't do it. It's much easier if you have your own machine, on your own for your own sites to do that. And I think we don't need to spend much more time on that. It was really quite technical. I just thought I'd write it down. But the point was that it seemed obvious that Google should just download the page and find out when it was last changed, that kind of stuff. But they were saying that the problem is, by doing that, it was requiring more server requests, which is just not worth their time because, of course, they're checking how many billions of pages is ridiculous. So the conditional get is the best way to go. It's essentially what they were getting at. Now, the next bit, do you want to take that? We'll just try and put these off. All right. Yeah, definitely. So I'm sure everybody understands what PR sculpting is. If you don't, basically, that's the idea of using no follows within your site to direct PR to specific pages and to block it from other pages. So if you have, if you have so much juice on a page, you want it to go to important pages, not pages you don't care about. So you block it for some and open it up for others. That's PR sculpting. Matt, in this interview, pretty much came close to calling that a spammy technique because of the fact that it leads the bots in different directions and the users can go. Yeah. So I thought it was just funny. I think we noted it again last time that it was just ironic because there was a time when Matt was saying it wasn't such a bad thing. He always did agree that it was, you know, other things that are more important in the sense of Matt, but it's still. It's pretty funny how things occur. And I don't think they're going to take the time to apply any kind of filters or spams. If you do, if I don't, if I know, follow links to my, you know, contact form because I don't want to send you there, they're not going to penalize me. They're not going to penalize you for doing something. I think maybe what he's talking about is people that go totally over the, over the, the wall and this kind of thing. And, you know, every link on a page except two are no follow because we want all the juice going to these two, that kind of thing, even though there's other navigation points that should be getting the flow as well. But no, we only want these two navigations because these are our primary target markets, that kind of thing. Maybe he's talking about that. I should qualify. He wasn't saying it in spammy in terms of a penalty, just that as a practice, it seems quite spammy. I thought that was a riot. Yeah. But if Matt says the word spam, it's like, in his position, I guess, you got to think, okay, if he's calling it spam, then there's a culture that he's developed in his area that means, okay, it's probably being looked at as spam. But again, it's, this was kind of vague. Very vague. And if I would be very surprised if it's actionable spam, I think it's just sort of like, what a silly technique kind of thing is the way they're looking at it. Who knows? It was very intriguing. Another thing is PDF files. We're running out of time here, but PDF files are important. They absolutely do process them. But interestingly, and I want to, I put this in bold because that was interesting. He actually prefaced this, like quickly, prefaced said, but I'm not going to talk about whether links in PDF files pass page rank. Now, why would he say that? I mean, he wasn't even prompted. I'm not going to talk about whether links in PDF files pass page rank. I didn't take one of your French fries. No. Yeah. guilty conscious? I don't know, there's something such going on there. So that's something for everyone that I thought was intriguing, I took out of that interview. And last one, why don't you take the last one here and we'll, we'll lead to others, I guess, for, or take one of the three. Mr. Pig, is that right? Okay. Why is it? Yeah. Because you're director. Oh, thanks. I'm going to direct us to number, after reading them real quick, but also one's kind of. Yeah. Let's talk about number three, the also one. So he's talking about, I'm sure where he understands that you can go in and you can report spam. And they recently, in the past few months, actually talked about specifically reporting a link span, spam, excuse me. And he said in this interview, quote, we might put out a call for people to report more about link span, spam in the coming months. We have some new tools and technology coming online with ways to tackle that. And that's interesting to me, because I've been seeing, in the past couple months, a lot of talk and chatter about a specific company that buys and sells links that's very open about the fact that they buy and sell links, people talk about them being targeted specifically. And that hasn't happened in a while. I mean, they've been focusing on a lot of other things, but the buying of links and the link spam thing is coming back around, I think, in the cycle as being something that's going to get looked at harder soon. I agree. And it's pretty much, they want you to tell on your friends, which is, that's such a cool thing. But anyway, they should be able to figure it out themselves. And tell on your competitors and tell on the people that are above you in the search engines and rankings. Yeah, it just sounds like a wonderful thing. Anyways, that's the end of the show. Thanks a lot, John. Always fun. Before we close, can we talk about, I just want to mention Rea Drysdale real quick, and people have probably already read about it, but if you haven't, just I know we're running out of time, but this deserves a couple minutes of our time. Rea Drysdale recently was able to pretty much save our entire industry from the fact that somebody was trying to trademark the term SEO. And she spent 10, 14,000 dollars of her own money. I mean, this is an independent contractor working out of her house, could have bought a new car, but spent this money to protect the SEO term from being trademarked by some other company so none of us could use it without their permission. And I mean, if you go to her site, outspoken media, on their blog, she has the whole story down there about the post is SEO trademark application terminated. I really think everybody who's listening should go read that and see what Rea did for us without any asking for help or wanting money or donations. I mean, people have talked her into taking donations. I know I've given the donation if you feel free, but I really recommend you read that and then thank her because she deserves thanks from every one of us. Totally agree. And we had it there on the list there. I think we should spend a little more time again just mentioning it next time to thank her. And, you know, so it's not sort of the last thing we know because I know people might have already left the show here, but it's definitely important. And thanks from everyone for that. I'm sure she's a popular lady now, even more so. Okay. Well, thank you, John. And just so everyone knows every Monday at 2 p.m. Pacific 5 p.m. Eastern SEO 101 airs on webmaster radio.fm either live or recorded. And, but you can listen to it live. And we look forward to any questions you could send into us at Ross Dunn is my Twitter address and yours is John Carcate. Two teams. Two teams. Two teams. You're going to change it to Director John Carc better. No, I don't think so. Sorry. Sorry. That's the last talk. That's it. Okay. Okay. Take care of everyone. Bye-bye all. [Music]