SEO 101

SEO Testing and PageRank Sculpting Changes

Net Concept founder Stephan Spencer discusses SEO Testing, recent changes to recent PageRank Sculpting Changes and he gives his thoughts on the future of search. Our Sponsors: * Producer Brasco: As digital professionals and business owners, we understand the critical importance of a secure and high-performing website. That's why I want to talk to you about Kinsta, a managed WordPress hosting provider that delivers exceptional speed, security, and reliability. Kinsta's infrastructure is optimized for WordPress, ensuring your site loads lightning-fast and ranks well in search results. They utilize Google Cloud's premium tier network and C3D virtual machines, which significantly boost performance. In fact, Kinsta customers often experience up to a 200% increase in site speed just by migrating to their platform. Security is paramount, and Kinsta provides enterprise-grade measures to protect your valuable data. They are one of the few WordPress hosting providers with SOC2 certification, guaranteeing the highest level of security for your website. Kinsta's MyKinsta dashboard offers a user-friendly interface with a comprehensive suite of tools to manage your site efficiently. From cache control and debugging to redirects and CDN setup, MyKinsta simplifies website administration. For SEO 101 listeners, Kinsta offers specific advantages. Their platform is optimized for speed, a crucial ranking factor in search engine algorithms. Their security measures protect your site from malware and hacking attempts that could damage your online presence. And their expert support team is available 24/7 to assist with any technical issues that may arise. If you're serious about your online presence and want a hosting provider that prioritizes performance, security, and support, I highly recommend Kinsta. Visit kinsta.com today to learn more and take advantage of their limited-time offer for new customers. That's k-i-n-s-t-a dot com. Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Duration:: 44m
Broadcast on:: 31 Aug 2009
Audio Format:: other

Net Concept founder Stephan Spencer discusses SEO Testing, recent changes to recent PageRank Sculpting Changes and he gives his thoughts on the future of search.

Our Sponsors:
* Producer Brasco: As digital professionals and business owners, we understand the critical importance of a secure and high-performing website. That's why I want to talk to you about Kinsta, a managed WordPress hosting provider that delivers exceptional speed, security, and reliability. Kinsta's infrastructure is optimized for WordPress, ensuring your site loads lightning-fast and ranks well in search results. They utilize Google Cloud's premium tier network and C3D virtual machines, which significantly boost performance. In fact, Kinsta customers often experience up to a 200% increase in site speed just by migrating to their platform. Security is paramount, and Kinsta provides enterprise-grade measures to protect your valuable data. They are one of the few WordPress hosting providers with SOC2 certification, guaranteeing the highest level of security for your website. Kinsta's MyKinsta dashboard offers a user-friendly interface with a comprehensive suite of tools to manage your site efficiently. From cache control and debugging to redirects and CDN setup, MyKinsta simplifies website administration. For SEO 101 listeners, Kinsta offers specific advantages. Their platform is optimized for speed, a crucial ranking factor in search engine algorithms. Their security measures protect your site from malware and hacking attempts that could damage your online presence. And their expert support team is available 24/7 to assist with any technical issues that may arise. If you're serious about your online presence and want a hosting provider that prioritizes performance, security, and support, I highly recommend Kinsta. Visit kinsta.com today to learn more and take advantage of their limited-time offer for new customers. That's k-i-n-s-t-a dot com.

Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

The opinions expressed on this webmasterradio.fm program are those of the hosts, guests and callers. And do not reflect those of the staff, management or advertisers of webmasterradio.fm. Any rebroadcast or retransmission of this program without the express written consent of webmasterradio.fm is prohibited. Welcome to SEO 101, your introductory course on Search Engine Optimization. So, turn on your computers, open your mind, grab your mouse and get ready to get back to the basis. SEO 101. SEO 101 on webmasterradio.fm is now in session. Hello and welcome to SEO 101 on webmasterradio.fm. This is Ross Don, CEO of Step Forward Marketing and my co-host is John Carca, the SEO Manager for MediaWiz. How's it going John? Good. Ross, how are you today? Great. It's Friday. You know, period flooring in this place. It's ringing here as always and we always talk about the weather down here in Florida but it's definitely dodging hurricane seasons and kicking in so. Lovely. Yes. Well, it's nice to warm here, sunny, you know. So today we're lucky to have Stefan Spencer, the president and CEO of Net Concepts on tonight. How are you doing Stefan? Doing great. Thanks. Welcome, Stefan. Thanks for coming. Yeah, well, I'm happy to be here. Thank you. Great. So Stefan, can you tell us a little about yourself Net Concepts? Sure. Well, founded the company 1995, so back when SEO didn't exist and we started as a web agency doing web development and web marketing stuff and over the course of time became more and more specialized in SEO and in e-commerce so we've been doing SEO since '99, so well now. And SEO consulting, we've got an SEO technology platform called Gravity Stream which allows us to get in there and fix all sorts of issues with e-commerce sites or CMSs that would normally require major invasive surgery and lots of dollars to fix. It's always fun. So you've got an interesting, to make it quick, an interesting story, you started off getting your master's in biochemistry, right? Yeah. Well, I was actually a PhD program studying biochemistry, I was going to become a professor or all that sort of stuff and I decided to quit and start the company and I'm very scientific in my thinking so actually kind of apply scientific method and experimental sort of approach to things in everything we do here at Net Concepts. So what's the one thing you would compare that's most similar to biochemistry about SEO if you had to pick one? Well, it's the running of tests and in biochemistry you'd run things like plaque assays to see what worked or what didn't work and you just put stuff out there on the web and wait for Google to pick it up and see if it spreads or does. Testing, testing, testing, good. So okay, so you're pretty much famous between one of the leaders in testing theories and SEO, at least from what I've read and all the stuff. I really enjoy your blog, by the way, it's fun. I'm also one of these guys that just love, as well and all that kind of stuff so it's always fun. It's fun reading your stuff. Can you share with us any, like you're doing a lot of testing, can you share with us any recent findings from your testing, even conclusions that just support common theories? Well, I don't know, I can share some things that I see the thing is is when you test stuff, this is stuff that you don't normally necessarily give out to the world. It's competitive information, it gives us that competitive edge or advantage. So we have to very carefully decide what we're going to let out and so to give you an example of something that was painful for me to decide to let out. What I did in the end was this thing about ungrouping the search results from the same site that get grouped together automatically by Google and then determining whether an indented listing of a competitor is vulnerable or not. If you see your competitors at one and two and you're at three, that number two listing may be actually number ten, it's just visually promoted to number two to be grouped along with the same site and so if it's one and ten, you go onto page two and you find something that's, you know, some innocuous association or something and you send some juice to that page, push it onto page one, knock your competitor out. So that was something that we just figured out from by tinkering and testing and so forth. And just to make a long story short, you just add ampersand num=9 to the end of the Google search result, your URL to see results one through nine and then if your competitor was actually at number ten as in one and ten, then their indented listing disappears. If it didn't disappear, you just go of num=8, num=7 until it does. So, you know, we knew that for a while and we decided finally to let it out into the world because I was, I gave this idea to Danny Sullivan of doing a session where you share your top secrets and this was for SMX Advance for the first one and boy, what a stupid idea that was. Because then I got invited on to be on the panel of course and I have to share some of my top secrets and so I did and I don't regret it certainly but you know, it was painful. I'm betting you didn't share your top secrets. Heck no. So my question, I get a question, so you do all this testing, how do you actually balance it with getting work done? So you've got this, I'm sure you got clients you have to service, how do you balance it too? Well, really the necessity is the mother of invention. And so if you have a customer problem or client problem that you're trying to get around and this is actually how we ended up, when I invented it in 2003, it was from a client problem. They were working with a large on-the-retailer and everything we were suggesting they do, like for example, change the category named kitchen electrics to something that people actually use in a sentence. They would fight, they would push back on and so I tried to just show them that wouldn't ruin their site without actually gaining access to the back end because they would not ever let us get in there and make any changes. So playing around with proxy servers, pull stuff off of their site and then add SEO changes to that real time was that was the birth of Gravity Stream and that was because we were having problems with a real world client situation. If we wouldn't have that, Gravity Stream may not even exist. So by having these clients and having all these different kinds of industries, these different types of sites, online community sites, online video, e-commerce, ad-supported publishing sites, you name it, we get all this breadth of experience and all sorts of different kinds of problems and there are some pretty hairy ones that we have to figure out. Okay, so you have peaked my curiosity, Gravity Stream, I guess you sort of said what it does but could you explain a little more detail what it is because I'm intrigued. Right, so let's say that a major initiative for your site is to implement URL rewriting. This may be a big deal, it's not a big deal if you're a small nimble sort of site that can get in there and fix things pretty quickly but if you're a very large retailer it might take a year, it might take hundreds of hours and that's a serious investment and that's just for the URL rewriting. What about adding new functionality in the terms of rejigging your internal linking structure, adding tag cloud functionality and just rejigging the way the pages are laid out from a, make it SEO search engine optimized but in a way without ruining the brand and getting everybody CEO and so forth upset so this gives you that flexibility to get in there and change things without having to do the major invasive surgery to the underlying platform. So take the example of kitchen electrics as a category name. Imagine you had a layer in between the web server and the greater internet. You had this proxy layer where you could introduce changes kind of like a search and replace capability. You can say every occurrence of kitchen electrics I would like you to replace with small appliances or kitchen small appliances right and then you're done, it's 10 minutes of work and pair that with going into the merchandising system and then changing the category name which then affects the print catalog as well and all sorts of other fulfillment systems and so forth or if you're not allowed to do that because you get fired then you have to figure out a work around where you're not affecting those systems yet you're affecting how it displays on the website so now you're trying to decouple those systems which are all intertwined using the same exact categories and product names and so forth across all those different systems what a mess right that take all that pain away just by introducing this kind of search and replace capability. Interesting okay I'm going to follow up we're going to take a quick break and we come back we're going to ask one more question about gravity and then John's got something and we'll move on. I see a 101 we'll be back right after recess Hey have you got that number for Jerry's pizza look it up on localpages.com localpages.com or what if I wanted a business number in Miami localpages.com can people find your business online be seen with localpages.com on every local listing in all the major search engines like Google Yahoo MSN and ask with over six billion quality searches a month and bid starting as low as once said get connected with local consumers at the exact moment that they're looking for you San Francisco Green Bay London I told you localpages.com list your business on localpages.com now and get $100 in free local advertising localpages.com bringing your neighborhood to you. Are you happy with your landing page performance discover how to improve your landing page performance with conversion critic.com brought to you by engine ready turn your underperforming landing pages into cost-effective sales producing machines be sure you're not wasting your precious PPC budget conversion critic tools give you the ingredients to create high converting landing pages you don't have to be an expert to use engine ready's conversion critic tools but you'll feel like a landing page pro take the guesswork out of increasing your conversion rate visit conversion critic.com and boost your conversion rate for free that's www.conversioncritic.com your company's website sucks you know it everybody knows it so get it to do list to fix it on target a subscription service from future now and Brian Eisenberg monitors your website 24/7 analyzing the actions of every potential customer it gives you a to-do list it tells you exactly what to fix and how to fix it so that more of your visitors do what you need them to do on target pricing starts at $1,000 a month see more at future now a dot com slash on target affiliate marketing is changing rapidly stay ahead of the trends with affiliate marketing insider thursday's at 3 p.m. eastern noon pacific or on demand anytime inside the affiliate marketing channel only on webmaster radio dot FM okay class take your seats and no talking recesses over and SEO 101 is back in session only on ledmaster radio dot FM. Welcome back to SEO 101 on webmaster radio dot FM with john karka SEO manager for media whiz and myself rastan CEO of step 4th web marketing ink today joining us is Stefan Spencer president and CEO of net concepts and before the break we were discussing a unique system he has called gravity stream now Stefan that that system does it it obviously has to work with just about any platform right mm-hmm yep so it's do you mentioned it takes it through a proxy so is it actually grabbing it live and then converting it is that how it works yeah so if you have you know the latest pricing latest inventory information if that's displayed on the web page that's all real time and it might might add a tenth of a second right okay to the laden latency but yeah it's pretty much invisible or whatever to the user page loads fast and then you can do all sorts of additional things I could just give you one quick example of you know a simple search and replace but imagine adding new functionality like the tag cloud capability or RSS feeds or add new pages to the site where you host your link bait because if you tried to tell your IT manager to add these new pages as you come up with new link bait articles they would freak out I'm just so you were part of that discussion that it is an SMX advance where mat cuts dropped that big bomb about PR Scott sculpting is no longer valid and it's the time you mentioned that like anything else agree you kind of have to wait and see what really happens so we waited a bit have you seen any impact are you still using PR sculpting well we are using PR sculpting but not in the way that you might think the traditional way of PR sculpting or thinking about PR sculpting is not really the right way to be thinking about it and as I alluded to earlier we keep a fair amount of stuff close to our chest and this is going to be no exception here let me just answer very vaguely and say that patreon sculpting is not so much about sending more juice specifically to particular other links but it's much more about trust and how your website looks from the outside and you know where the it's about the external link sources more than it is about passing more juice to one particular link over another okay it's okay I was just gonna say so feel free to say no comment if you like but from what I'm pulling out of that with that comment is it's more about targeted deep link building maybe to to to set up your PR for internal and sculpting it that way versus relying on manipulating internal linking structure does that sound correct well PR sculpting is manipulating your internal linking structure and I'm saying that's still a valid tactic okay okay and what I'm suggesting is that you need to think about this from a broader perspective and think about not just where the the link juice is flowing internally but what are the outlets and the inlets so just kind of think about it that way all right and that'll stop there okay so what if it's too hard now you mentioned that it's not the right way of thinking about it but it did it did work the way a lot of us were doing it and then I'm not gonna say that I don't have a different way of doing myself but the fact is a lot of the way other people were doing it the way people thought it should work was working so there is a change Google has made some changes over the last year we do yes yeah okay yeah so absolutely and I was up there on stage in the past telling people to you know take all those worthless links on your homepage that go to the latest news releases and so forth and no follow those so that you send more juice to the remaining links and yep that is absolutely something that worked well it's something that I'm suggesting you don't think about as much now you don't just say oh we're not going to do PR sculpting anymore because Matt says so but instead test this stuff figure out what actually works and what doesn't work and you need to have hypotheses that go beyond a traditional sort of well let's think about this is more juice going to this link versus this other link and think of it more holistically about trust and what your website how your website looks from the outside from a Google algorithm algorithm perspective hmm no one thing you don't let me add it to John it's it's one of these things to that I have to agree with some people that we focus a lot on on these tactics and making this work and making that work but for the listeners out there this is all when you get into the advanced stuff this is when you it's probably not very SEO one-on-one quite honestly but it's interesting so we can't open we're we're in it but you know when you the basics always stand true make sure your site is good make sure in terms of content make sure that it's got a navigable search structure you know making sure your site is search engine friendly is key and and this is just when you start getting down to that fine grain you're really trying to get that extra ranking move up a few more spots potentially you're up against a solid competitor that has some really good tactics and also as a polished site you need to start putting some of these into place don't worry about it if if you're just got a basic small mom and pop site don't worry about this this isn't a big deal but it is intriguing for people with larger sites sometimes with shopping carts with with you know we're thousands upon thousands and thousands of pages hundreds of thousands of pages and even millions sometimes you know it's these are those kind of things you would use in those cases but you know you know I just throw on a crazy idea here there isn't that big of a difference between SEO one-on-one and the advanced stuff if you think about it you know stepping back and looking at for example the concept of keyword prominence happening your good keywords that you're targeting for a particular page higher up in that page that's SEO one-on-one and yet if you go to the next level where you say I've got a WordPress blog or WordPress based site and I need to have stable keyword themes for these various pages so this is my category page for widgets or whatever you know blue widgets and yet the keyword stability is just not there it depends on whatever I end up having the latest post be right so it's just it's very frustrating when it's seemingly random whatever you decide to write about then categorize in that category it changes the the keyword thing so what do you do you take a plug-in like WP sticky and you install it in your WordPress blog and you assign a category to you should be saving for the future but savings accounts suck and investing can be scary we combine the ease of savings with the real returns of investing we call it save vesting and it's only available in our new app stairs stairs offers four to six percent returns no fees and you can withdraw anytime do your future a favor visit stairs app.com today to a sticky post that you write which is just purely intro copy and because it's sticky it ends up at the top of the category page always and therefore that's your intro copy that is stable keyword a theme there that's coming through loud and loud and clear it's just it's SEO 101 but using some you know more advanced tactics you're just you're just kind of making that a little bit of a leap. Does that make sense? Totally I think that's why we jump into the quote unquote advanced realm I mean to a lot of our listeners this would be where we're talking baffle gab no matter how we try to put it and I mean I know that because I mean with so many I deal with a lot of small medium-sized business and I really have to change how I speak because we don't even know it but they say that on the book made just stick it's the curse of knowledge we don't even know we're saying these words and that's what I try and keep my mind on to as well. So John if you've got a question right? Yep I do kind of change and changing gears here again you had a post recently on the net concept site about the future of search and it was actually really good I was wondering if you just kind of share a little bit with our listeners with the future of search as you perceive it. Yeah of course I'm not a fortune teller so this is just off the off the cuff but I am really into nanotechnology and futurist type stuff. We have a client a foresight institute co-founded by the guy who coined the term nanotechnology conference I went to last year just to attend and I rarely go to a conference as just to attend usually I'm speaking at him but this was an awesome conference it's called convergence and he had stuff about artificial intelligence which will become autonomous intelligence that's that's scary extreme life extension nanotechnology it was all there that's why this conference was called convergence it's all these advanced technologies coming together and where we're heading is a very scary place it's called the singularity if you want to get freaked out read the book the singularity is near and you want to sleep at night anymore so in any event let's kind of let's not go to the year 2050 or so when the singularity hits let's just look five years in the future where it's not quite so scary you have remember the the days of working on in the DOS prompt and dumb terminals and so forth that was painful right the advent of the GUI or graphical user interface was a huge transition and that that ushered in a new era well there'll be a similar sort of transition and in in in sides and scope when we go from the GUI to the lui lui as in linguistic user interface or language user interface when you are able to talk to your computer and converse with it be able to have an assimilated personality of this computer is able to you know ask for clarification and and gauge your mood what you're looking for and so forth imagine being conversing with your computer in that way because it's so much more efficient rather than be using your fingers you know typing on this keyboard it just is going to seem ludicrous in the future this idea of you know so now if you're talking to your computer how can you then search what how does this impact search it's going to impact it we're going to take a quick break right there because I'm going to get you into that because that's a good little transition point or take a quick break we'll be right back SEO 101 will be back right after recess how do you choose the right affiliate network to partner with the answer is simple market health dot com where health and wealth connect established in 1998 the market health dot com affiliate network allows you to market and promote the world's leading health and beauty offers on the net start making recurring income and the highest payouts in our industry choose from over 50 of the hottest selling offers ranging from herbal supplements skincare vitamins beauty products weight loss and much more sign up for free at market health dot com and start making money today friend finder friend finder the world's largest online dating network featuring over 100 million profiles at hot sites such as passion dot com and fast cubic dot com represents enormous profit making opportunities for webmasters just like you with friend finder's ability to geo target and provide billing solutions at most languages and currencies you are sure to find our comprehensive network to be a good friend your wallet to get more traffic maximizing details now at friend finder dot com have a good weekend and hey Jan why are all the coders leading so early doesn't your department have a deadline of like midnight or something me and my staff are here all night I saved money on my staffing budget by outsourcing a lot of work to offshoring dot com I told them I needed a coder and they sent me profiles fast my staff just filled in a little details and now we're having margarita night offshoring dot com fast and expensive excellent and on time offshoring dot com LPO landing page optimization Mondays at 2 p.m. eastern 11 a.m. Pacific or on demand anytime inside the advertising channel only on webmaster radio dot FM okay class take your seats and no talking recesses over and SEO 101 is back in session only on webmaster radio dot FM welcome back to SEO 101 on webmaster radio dot FM which on car cut SEO manager for media was and myself raw stock CEO of step 4 web marketing ink before the break we're discussing a linguistic interfaces I believe linguistic user interfaces so in other words we're moving into how you can talk to your computer and our guest today is Stefan Spencer the president and CEO of net concepts so Stefan you were just about to jump into how speaking with your computer moves into search so let's get into that now right so let's say that you are then on the road and this concept of mobile search seems kind of silly when you think about where we're going to be in five years time and you know we're mainly talking to our computer instead of typing on it so if we can speak so much faster than we can type that just mean most of the input that we are going to be feeding to our computer is going to be through our voice so that means that that allows us to not be tethered so much to our desktop computer or even to a laptop computer we can be mobile so mobile search is no longer about using some tiny little device and looking at the little screen and typing on tiny little keys or using your iPhone virtual keyboard it's about using whatever interfaces are present to provide that input and then get the output back and input being mainly voice what would be the output I would imagine that you're going to have a lot more usage of goggles which have 3D displays there's this new operating system did you guys see the movie minority report yeah I love that oh that's cool that was awesome right and that technology where you can like use your hand and swipe stuff off the screen and then pinch it and it's all in virtual space you're not actually touching anything that actually exists there's a I forget the URL it might be gspace dot com or something like that it is phenomenal and so imagine able to have virtual displays that are in goggles are that are on like a screen not that you want your car window to suddenly darken and then you're playing World of Warcraft that would be pretty dangerous if you're driving but you could imagine that a lot more becomes possible when you're no longer tethered so much to that to your desktop computer so we need to really think expand our thinking about what what is search and what is interaction with our computer because it's not going to be too long and computers are going to be smarter than us and scary time so I've got this image in my head now of Captain Kirk on the bridge instead of saying computer where do we go he says Google where do we go to get to this so it's right and at some point being a little more serious about that you can actually speak to different sites or different entities online so to speak like a Google or like an MSN or Yahoo just as speaking to by prefacing your comment with who they are that could be extremely interesting yeah so and by the way I just tried to go to that gspace dot com do not go there going to a porn site not good thank you for checking that out yeah and I can't get rid of all these pop-ups it's not good okay well so following that up what do you think like obviously things are getting more complex do you think this the search technologies will make it easier for do it yourself is to do their own marketing or do you think that it always just be the basic stuff that they'll do and do it yourself a lot they can do but I mean let's think of mom and pot so saying good people who really have a full time job and they're doing their marketing let's think of it right so I'm a big proponent of do it yourself at DO even though we're an SEO agency and we're the outsource partner for pretty big companies if you can build in-house capability then you can advance further and get the outside consultancy to help you with the the real little stuff or the really out there stuff that's just you know cutting edge right so we're working on things figuring out stuff that they haven't heard of yet and they're working on the basic blocking and tackling and continue to upscale because we're coming in we're doing SEO best practices training and stuff like that along with producing the audits and so forth so they're up ceiling and getting more and more expert over time and they're staying ahead of their competitors because at the same time we're injecting the equation the really latest cool stuff that we're discovering from experimental approaches and so forth so make sense I mean we don't like I think we can speak for all of us we don't really like a lot of the grind stuff anyway we're more interested in looking into the nitty gritties and figuring out the latest techniques and that kind of stuff after a while we get a little bored otherwise I think so so bringing this this future of search conversation back to something a little more in our timeline the something I've been hearing a lot about recently and Ross knows that I'm kind of passionate about around learning more about is real-time search it's on the horizon people are talking about it and there's different definitions of what real-time search is going to be or how it's going to work one that really caught my eye month or so ago I think it was one of the one of the major marketing magazine sites covered it and she came up with a concept of pulse rank where you look at how people are linking things using short URLs to and through Twitter and all these different microblogging services and basically the idea was real-time search may have some kind of impact on using pulse rank and how this may even transition into standard algorithms have you read about much of that or do you know have you got any concepts or theories on that well I actually think that real-time search is something that is just going to be baked into the the main web searches algorithms I mean if you're looking for something that is very timely Google should know that you shouldn't have to go to a different search engine just because it's happening this moment unless you're talking about real-time search not actually being searched but instead being like personalized page of news results or something and then you're talking Google news that's that's completely different but if you're talking about real-time search Google should be smart enough if there's some sort of attack in a certain city and you're doing a search for that city name and it happened ten minutes ago Google should be smart enough in its algorithm to pull from the various real-time sources such as this the Twitter streams what is happening in that city at that moment seems to be you know really timely and important. So do you see at some point where I'm hopefully soon I can stop using this example but today Michael Jackson died you know everybody that I talked to you spent the whole day sitting on Twitter you know and the main reason is because Twitter was where you would find where's the most recent article where's the most recent information and people would link to it with Bitly or whatever and is there a time when those kind of resources that the Twitter stream the Bitly stream the API of links that's coming through that are going to impact organic search results to the point where at one moment you can be you know ranked number two for a search phrase and three hours later you're ranked number ten and then six hours later you're back to number four so it's going to fluctuate search results are going to fluctuate so rapidly on those those types of terms where you know not that it is now but search results are going to just totally disappear as a metric of SEO for certain terms. Yeah I don't know if I'd go in that direction as much as I'd think that well I don't know if you've seen the video for Google Wave which is awesome can't wait yeah can't wait for the Google implant you know I'll be first in line so imagine you're you've got Google Wave and Google search integrated and you're able to do a search for Michael Jackson and hitting in one direction and then just sit there and watch it unfold so it's not like you're continuing to do searches or continuing to update the search results and reshuffle them but instead you're digging into the Google Wave for a particular news source like e entertainment news is giving really good coverage or a certain set of Twitter users or certain hashtag or whatever and you just you subscribe to that temporarily and you just dig in and you just follow that that that stream as it as it goes along I think that makes a lot more sense than reshuffling the search results every few minutes or whatever and sure when you're talking about a very timely or time sensitive search like Michael Jackson on the day he died absolutely the results should shift around quite significantly through the course of that day but over time then it will stabilize it's kind of like the dig effect where you're just going to you're going to have this very short window whatever 24 hours and everything's different on your website you're like you know batten down the hatches we're about to get hit with you know this torrent of traffic so it's it's just that little window at time everything's different kind of like all the normal laws of the universe fall apart and then it comes back to normal so I kind of would equate this real-time search thing of you know something is happening therefore these results are very fluid and changing but then things stabilize excellent great it's a real good point about Google wave integration I hadn't thought of it from their perspective but I totally do it again and I'm thinking about that I think that'd be the perfect place to put it I hope Google engineers are listening to this we're definitely gonna have to get that the list doesn't get into pass it around so let's let's tie this up with I don't know a top list top 10 if you wish of what you think the do it yourself or should focus on when optimizing their sites right so let's kind of break this into two major areas let's break it into on age and off page so the on page stuff now we're talking about things like title tags and anchor text of internal links that point to that page so if you can you just focus on certain high value activities I say those are the two most important ones you could do H1 tags and URLs as well those are more second order and then third order would be things like meta descriptions which actually aren't gonna improve your rankings but improve clicks click through so on the on page stuff I would I would use this approach of like thin slicing go through and quickly bang through all your content all your pages don't overthink it but rewrite your title tags from an SEO point of view just bang bang bang bang without having to think about all the copy on the page and and all the internal linking structure and everything kind of just focus you know 10 seconds of title tag 15 seconds pull out of you know like if you're using WordPress or whatever pull all that out from all the dynamic content out from your your database and bring it into an Excel file and you have your existing post names or page titles and now you have your new ones or you can use my SEO title tag plug in and do the same thing that was a nice plug anyways I didn't mean to do that whatever it's a free plug in so I'm not selling anything so if you kind of thin slice through this these high value things I think that's a really cool thing to do and on the off page stuff rather than doing the hard slog of picking up the phone and sending out emails and so forth to build links one at a time what if you just focus on some really great link bay articles and you know pull up some reputation and street cred in some of the social sites like stumble upon would be a great one to build your street cred in and reputation profile etc. and start pushing your stuff out along with other things that are fantastic and don't push anything out of yours that's garbage but great really great content that's very humorous or very interesting useful that sort of thing and that I think is a very high value off page activity to work on awesome well thank you very much Stefan that was just been great on behalf of myself Ross Dunn CEO of Stepforth Web Marketing and John Carcutt SEO Manager for MediaWiz we'd like to thank you for coming today it's been it's been very enlightening I think a lot of our listeners are going to love this definitely thank you Stefan it's been really really good conversation well thanks for having us this fun awesome thank you everyone we'll see you next week Monday 5 p.m. eastern 2 p.m. pacific have a great week thanks everybody everyone love shopping online well I'm going to tell you what I tell my golf buddies when they buy clubs stop searching for coupon codes download capital one shopping to your computer capital one shopping instantly searches for available coupon codes and automatically applies them at checkout plus it's free and you don't even need a capital one card to use it that's like hitting a hole in one without even trying capital one shopping it's kind of genius what's in your wallet savings and available coupons vary