SEO 101

Best Web Marketing Checklist

Best Web Marketing Checklist when looking to find new optimization with Stoney Degeyter who wrote the SEMMY Award winning post Our Sponsors: * Producer Brasco: As digital professionals and business owners, we understand the critical importance of a secure and high-performing website. That's why I want to talk to you about Kinsta, a managed WordPress hosting provider that delivers exceptional speed, security, and reliability. Kinsta's infrastructure is optimized for WordPress, ensuring your site loads lightning-fast and ranks well in search results. They utilize Google Cloud's premium tier network and C3D virtual machines, which significantly boost performance. In fact, Kinsta customers often experience up to a 200% increase in site speed just by migrating to their platform. Security is paramount, and Kinsta provides enterprise-grade measures to protect your valuable data. They are one of the few WordPress hosting providers with SOC2 certification, guaranteeing the highest level of security for your website. Kinsta's MyKinsta dashboard offers a user-friendly interface with a comprehensive suite of tools to manage your site efficiently. From cache control and debugging to redirects and CDN setup, MyKinsta simplifies website administration. For SEO 101 listeners, Kinsta offers specific advantages. Their platform is optimized for speed, a crucial ranking factor in search engine algorithms. Their security measures protect your site from malware and hacking attempts that could damage your online presence. And their expert support team is available 24/7 to assist with any technical issues that may arise. If you're serious about your online presence and want a hosting provider that prioritizes performance, security, and support, I highly recommend Kinsta. Visit kinsta.com today to learn more and take advantage of their limited-time offer for new customers. That's k-i-n-s-t-a dot com. Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Duration:: 34m
Broadcast on:: 09 Feb 2009
Audio Format:: other

Best Web Marketing Checklist when looking to find new optimization with Stoney Degeyter who wrote the SEMMY Award winning post

Our Sponsors:
* Producer Brasco: As digital professionals and business owners, we understand the critical importance of a secure and high-performing website. That's why I want to talk to you about Kinsta, a managed WordPress hosting provider that delivers exceptional speed, security, and reliability. Kinsta's infrastructure is optimized for WordPress, ensuring your site loads lightning-fast and ranks well in search results. They utilize Google Cloud's premium tier network and C3D virtual machines, which significantly boost performance. In fact, Kinsta customers often experience up to a 200% increase in site speed just by migrating to their platform. Security is paramount, and Kinsta provides enterprise-grade measures to protect your valuable data. They are one of the few WordPress hosting providers with SOC2 certification, guaranteeing the highest level of security for your website. Kinsta's MyKinsta dashboard offers a user-friendly interface with a comprehensive suite of tools to manage your site efficiently. From cache control and debugging to redirects and CDN setup, MyKinsta simplifies website administration. For SEO 101 listeners, Kinsta offers specific advantages. Their platform is optimized for speed, a crucial ranking factor in search engine algorithms. Their security measures protect your site from malware and hacking attempts that could damage your online presence. And their expert support team is available 24/7 to assist with any technical issues that may arise. If you're serious about your online presence and want a hosting provider that prioritizes performance, security, and support, I highly recommend Kinsta. Visit kinsta.com today to learn more and take advantage of their limited-time offer for new customers. That's k-i-n-s-t-a dot com.

Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

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Now enjoy a large iced coffee for just two bucks and a breakfast sandwich to make a meal. Prices and participation may vary, cannot be combined with any other offer or combo meal. Welcome to SEO 101, your introductory course on search engine optimization. So, turn on your computers, open your minds, grab your mouse and get ready to get back to the basis. Hello everyone, welcome to SEO 101 on Webmaster Radio FM. I'm Jennifer Evans-Laycock, editor and chief of Search Engine Guide and with me is my co-host Ross Dunn, CEO of Step 4th. Today, we're going to dive into some of the things you want to check your site for before getting ready to start an optimization project. So with that in mind, we've actually got a guest on the show today. We're joined by Stoney the Geider, president of Pole Position Marketing who just won a semi for his best damn web marketing checklist period. Which if you guys haven't checked this out yet, you definitely want to go and run a search and pick it up. You can find it over on Search Engine Guide, huge, great big list. You can check out to get started. So Ross, how you doing today? I'm doing great. Thank you. How are you? I'm pretty good. Stoney, how are you doing today? We're doing excellent. Feeling really proud of that semi, I hear. Yes, I'm floating all over the place. All right. Well, since he didn't get any type of trophy reward or something, we're going to count this as reward for winning that, that he gets to come on our, you know, wonderful illustrious two-episode show. Maybe we'll have him back again in the future if we can actually, you know, get our act together a little more. Okay, Ross, I'm going to pop over to you first. We had decided we were going to go through this checklist and just kind of generally talk about some of the things we look for when we're getting ready to work on a site for some new optimization. So let's hear what your absolute big E is. What's the first thing you look for when you're getting ready to do something like this? Myself, well, I guess it would be titles. I mean, you can't get more basic than that. When I look at a site, you know, right off the bat, I look at the titles, I mean, I guess, yeah, titles. I mean, if I look at the titles and I see that they're improperly word, they're maybe just had the company name in them, I just start to wonder, and I go, okay, it's time to make some fixes here. It's usually a perfect indicator that the site has not been optimized. And it's very basic, but you're, you know, once you've got a title tag set up and even the meta tag set up throughout the entire site, individually and uniquely on each page, you've done a lot of the work. And so I think that's where I would start. How about you? You know, I think if I'm getting into it, I actually go a little further back than that even. Sometimes you could tell just looking at a site, but generally I like to plug it through one of the spider simulators just to kind of make sure everything's actually getting picked up. All the links are getting picked up. See if there's any type of, you know, programming issues that are actually keeping everything from being read by the search engines because I figure the titles don't matter if you can't actually read them in the first place, but, you know, generally, not too much of an issue on that side. Stoney, how about you? I like to look at the overall site, architectural issues, which to me includes what Jennifer said and the titles as well. Just trying to get a feel for how the site's put together, make sure pages are getting spider or they are spiderable by the search engines. And once they are getting the things in place like unique titles and descriptions and things like that. But ultimately, the first thing I try to look at is how search engine friendly the site is and then work from there. What needs to change to make sure that this site can be spider and the search engines are getting the information they need? Yeah, I would say that, you know, going to, you know, obviously you started with one thing so I was going for the most basic, but I mean, going and looking at what their engines have seen, it tends to be what I do first. I mean, and then I run a site spider if I'm not certain what's going on. But really, if the search engines don't have any pages listed or just the home page, you know that there's some sort of navigation theme that it's just not working. It could be a JavaScript, it could be a flash navigation. You know, if there's no text navigation, it's just not going to necessarily be as effective. And it's very interesting to go through a site and I've, you know, you find so many different ways that search engines still have issues getting through a site. I find it quite intriguing, but definitely a good start. So Jennifer, what would you do next? I think if I'm already out there looking to see if they can actually pick up any of the pages of the site, I'm probably going to go and see how many pages on the site are indexed. I think especially when you get into some of the larger sites or sites that have some dynamic content or something like a blog, it's a little handier to, you know, kind of see what you're working with because if you've got some areas of the site that just aren't getting indexed for whatever reason, you know, that's a nice quick way to get some extra content into the engines just to go and kind of pick up that problem. Get a nice ratio, find out what they're actually are and then how many are actually indexed, definitely. Exactly. Exactly. And I think a lot of times if you, you know, if you go in and you check and you find that, you know, 98, 99% of the pages are actually showing up, that tells you a lot about, you know, what the architecture of the sites like in terms of search friendliness. On the other hand, if you're getting in there and, you know, they've just got a teeny tiny portion of them showing up in the results, you know, or even just showing up in the index, then you generally know you've got some big architecture problems you've got ahead. How about you guys? I think that goes into navigation, which I tend to like to look at quite a bit and seeing how the navigation is laid out, what are the main pages being linked to, and then how are the sub pages or the deep internal pages being linked. And final lot of sites where they'll try to do either too much in their navigation or not enough, and you really want to make sure that you've got all of your main categories linked to in the main navigation, but then from there it's real easy to get to the deeper pages. And you don't really want to have things hidden or too many clicks away from the homepage. And that goes well for the search engines as well as the users, just making the content easier to get to and making sure it's set up in a way that as the search engines spider that they can tell the importance of relative pages by virtue of how they're linked in the navigation. Now Stony, one question I get up for a bit, and I'd be interested to see what you'd say about it, is a lot of people I've noticed say, "Okay, well, I don't really want to link from my homepage to this area. I don't even want it two levels deep. I want it three or four. Could I just have it in a site map?" So I've got a link to the site map from every page in the site with the site map be just as good. And this is not an XML site map, but actually a visual one, a graphical one. Do you think that that fills the same bill? I think it's good to have the site map that's linked from every page and then the site map links to every page. I think that's a good help, but it doesn't do the job of showing the search engines which pages are more important or more valuable, because you can only do that in the hierarchy and how the main navigation is set up. Now if you don't want a page that's linked from the homepage, then it's obviously not an important page. And then yeah, you know, have a link from the site map, but also have it linked wherever it needs to be linked from internally as well. So the site map is a way just to get all the pages to the search engines quickly so they can be found, but you still need the hierarchical navigation set up right so the search engine can determine the importance of the pages. You know, Stony, I'm looking through the checklist here and, you know, seeing a couple of things that for people who are new to SEO might not exactly know what it is. And one of the things I'm seeing is the robots.txt, which I know most of us in the search industry are pretty familiar with, but if we've got some new people tuning in, can you give them a little bit of information on why they want to check that and what some common problems with it might be? Yeah, the robots.txt file is basically just a regular text file just as it is, robots.txt. And you use it to basically tell the search engines what pages or what folders of the site you don't want to give them access to. And you do that if there's areas where you want to just keep out of the search engines, you don't want people finding in the search results for whatever reason. And one of the main things you want to check for that is make sure it's built properly. We've seen instances where sites weren't getting any traffic and we go look at the robots.txt file, and they were disallowing the entire site from the search engines. And one easy little fix just opens up the site. So that's one of the things you want to look at. You want to make sure it's built properly. You're not excluding things that you shouldn't exclude, and you only do exclude the things that you really want. Now, Stonya, in here, I'm just searching in your article here, I can recall seeing anything about, or of course, it's a little more advanced, I suppose, but crafting page rank using no follow text. What do you think in that realm? I know some people think it's huge, some people don't. It's in here. There's one line in here that says something about check no follows. There's not a lot of detail explanation, but yeah, I don't like to use a no follow a lot to try and manipulate how the search engines are finding pages. But what I do typically use it for is pages that I just want to keep out of the search results. So I'll either robots.txt them out and disallow them in the robots.txt and/or when I'm linking to those pages, I'll use a no follow in pages like policy pages, standard footer disclaimer type stuff, links that you put to your security policy pages, your user policy pages or whatever. Even the contact us page, I usually will use a no follow because I just don't want to be passing page rank to those because they're not going to be valuable to the user if it comes up in the search results. So typically, that's about all the page rank sculpting that I'll do, is just take these main pages and just say no, don't want to pass link value to those. I don't want to get into the anything that's real heavy because I want to do that through the navigation and set up the navigation properly. Perfect. Thank you. Cool. Stony, I'm reading through your architectural issues list and I mentioned the robots.txt the last time and I see one on here called flat directory structure. Can you tell us a little more about what you think it on that? Basically, the checklist itself doesn't offer a lot of explanation and I did a series of articles that stemmed from this checklist that each point gave a little bit more explanation. In that one in particular, basically the point is to not have a purely flat directory structure where every page is in the root and every page is linked to you from the home page. So what you want to do is you want to just make sure there's a hierarchy in there. You've got your main categories, your home page linked to your main categories and then your main categories linked to your secondary pages and use that structure as well when you're creating your files if you're using either pure HTML or pulling from a database. Use folders to separate these different areas. So if you've got a section of your site that's about topic x, then use a folder called topic x and if you've got another area that's about topic y, then use a folder called topic y. So you just want to kind of have a nice hierarchical directory structure. Now one thing that I think I said in the last episode too, which if I may be so bold, I would love to add would be analytics, so we can get that part of the web marketing package really is getting analytics on the site and maybe there I've seen it, I tried to do a search, I couldn't find it but it's free, it's easy, it's out there and as soon as they get that on there they have all the information that then use and further improve their site over time. I imagine you use Google Analytics for your clients? Yeah, we do and some quick tracks but yeah analytics is very important and it wasn't included in this because this is more of things to look at on the site that you can actually tweak and change. This is more of use it to find problems and find things that need to be fixed and then use that data that you get to go and make the site better. But yeah, I would definitely rank that up there as one of the most important things with any SEO campaign. You know, even on the analytics front, I was thinking you guys just sparked that in my mind. Thinking about, we were talking about a client this morning who, you know, is looking at what their biggest sales are on the site and you know where they want to put their focus and a lot of times what I see happening with new companies is they're really focusing on what they're already getting to their site without realizing how much potential traffic they're giving up. So obviously as part of this process, you know, getting out there and, you know, checking, do they have areas that have really high conversion rates but that don't necessarily rank well so they have lower traffic and it's just not showing up on the sales report, sort of like, you know, the long tail of search but the long tail in terms of conversions. Or are there areas, you know, that we can pick up from keyword research that they have and even, you know, focused on adding those products or adding that content? What do you guys think about that in terms of, you know, part of your process for getting ready to optimize the site? We've had an issue like that with one client a while back where they kept directing us towards certain keywords and they said this is where a bread and butter is, so go after those. And I kept saying, well, you know, but you're not getting any money on these other products because you're not optimizing for them. But they couldn't see that the, you know, what was driving the traffic was what had been optimized so they wanted to keep focusing on that. And the other products that they weren't getting any money for, they didn't want to focus on because there was nothing coming in but that was happening because there was no optimization. And we had a hard time and ultimately never did convince them that they should go after those other products and optimize for those certain keywords. But you know, there's two ways to that too is you want to make sure that, you know, you're focusing on your optimization efforts and I talked about this in another series of articles I wrote on keyword research. You don't want to just look at what keywords have high search volume, but you want to look at the keywords that are also for products that you get a high profit margin on. And even if it's a lower search volume of some products, if your profit margin is higher, by all means start optimizing for those because the more you sell, the more profit you have. Excellent. Okay. Thanks, Stoney. We're actually going to go ahead and break now for commercial break. But again, thanks for listening to SEO 101 on Webmaster Radio FM and we'll be back after the break with a little more on getting your site ready to be optimized. Go behind the scenes of SEO 101 with their Facebook fan page. Search for SEO 101 podcast on Facebook now. SEO 101 will be back right after recess. I have a good weekend, Andy. Hey, Jan, why are all the coders leading so early? Doesn't your department have a deadline of like midnight or something? Me and my staff are here all night. I saved money on my staffing budget by outsourcing a lot of work to offshoring.com. I told them I needed a coder and they sent me profiles fast. My staff just filled in the little details and now we're having margarita night. Offshoring.com, fast, inexpensive, excellent, and on time offshoring.com. Looking for a new way to build backlinks and traffic back to your website? Then look no further than the quickest and easiest way to blast your article to thousands of subscribers at the click of a mouse. Introducing articlecenter.com, the world's premier article distribution service. With articlecenter.com, you can submit your prize-winning piece to thousands of promising publishers and article directories creating for fresh content. 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Office Hours with Vanessa Fox, Thursday at 4 p.m. Eastern, 1 p.m. Pacific, or on demand anytime inside the search engine optimization channel, only on webmasterradio.fm. Ok class, take your seats and no talking. Recess is over and SEO 101 is back in session. Finally on webmasterradio.fm. Ok everyone, thanks for joining us again. We're back from break with SEO 101 on webmasterradio.fm. You're here with me, Jennifer Evans-Laycock, Editor-in-Chief of Search Engine Guide and my co-host, Ross Dunn, CEO of Stepforth. Today we're being joined by Stoney De Geider, President of Poll Position Marketing and we're talking about the best-damned web marketing checklist period that Stoney put together earlier this year. Just looking over some of the different things that you might want to check on your site before you get ready for any major optimization efforts, and I think Ross, you were getting ready to lead in with a new point. Yeah, well, I'm mostly throwing questions at Stoney here, I love this, this is fun. URL, some people really want to mess with them, let's say it's a dynamic URL system, so a content management system of some kind, and obviously some of them are so horrible, like they come out with tons of extraneous characters, and they literally address URL and try to be a little more graphically here to make the other one understand, the URL can be quite ugly, that information can be difficult for search engines to follow. Now, most cases Google is good at getting through them, but it still will not go as far in your site if that URL is not clean and perhaps if it looks like HTML, it'll go a little farther. What are your thoughts on that, Stoney? Burn it. You've got those URLs that are just unwieldy in length and excessive characters, you know, burn it. Just revamp the system, do something so it's neat, clean, using real words and a folder type structure in the URL, it's really your best way to go. On the other hand, if the search engines have no trouble finding the spider in the site, your product pages are getting picked up and there's no issues, then they don't change what isn't broken. So that's okay, pretty much the same idea. One thing I thought was really interesting was Google, I think just came out a couple of weeks ago and said, please do not clean up your URLs. I thought that was quite intriguing because they said we want to know what your system is, we want to be able to get through your entire site knowing what system we're indexing. Now, is that self-serving, you think? Or are they really good enough? Well, I mean, it's absolutely like they're saying, hey, don't fix it because we want to be able to fix it at some point. So leave your site as, you know, crappy and eventually we'll get around to it. I don't think that's good FCL, you know, if you're really trying to get your site up there in the rankings, yeah, fix it. Don't wait for the mechanic to take a number and finally get around to your site. Yeah. Excellent. Yeah, I agree. I think it was a bit premature for them to say that and I don't think too many people are taking it seriously. So that's good for you to hear from you as well. Okay, guys, let's build off that a little bit and take the budget scale down. Let's say you've got a small business that's really tight on the budget and needs to get a pretty out of the box site put together that, you know, runs off a CMS that is still search friendly. What do you guys generally do with that? Do you use WordPress or do you have something else you like working with or, you know, which sort of your plan of action? Well, personally, I actually have our new website, which across my fingers will be launching soon. I tell you, it's been a couple of years. It's coming. It's going to be in WordPress. So our own website will be using that and not because, you know, a finance is simply because I have talked and talked and talked to people and it is really excellent. I mean, of course, I've optimized sites to their WordPress and I find it extremely easy to craft the URLs. There's plug-ins for just about anything. It's got an excellent community running it. If you have any questions or need any help, it's there and available. And, you know, between that and the fact that it's, although it was mentioned as originally as a blog platform, it's very easy to extend into a content management system. How about you, Sony? I haven't had too much experience with it other than my own blog, but I have talked to people that are doing that more and more, it's moving over to WordPress because it is a good content management system. And I do know, I mean, the plug-ins that they have are incredible. You can find a plug-in for just about anything that you want to do. And once you've got your site designed, you just plug it into that. And you know, even if you're going to redesign your site, it seems fairly easy to pop in a new template and just transpose all your information where it's a brand new template. So I'm all for it and anything that's cheap and easy. Okay. Well, in your list of stuff here, a lot of great stuff and intermingled into it, I find a lot of great usability recommendations. What would you say, like, I'll put you on the spot here, let's say five best usability things. What are the top five things that you'd really be looking for when you're looking into crafting your website, making sure it's usable, not just search engine friendly? Well, navigation again, that really does have to be built for the user. People need to be able to find the information that they're looking for. So the main navigation, and one of the things, if you've got a lot of pages and a lot of stuff in your navigation, break it up. Have headings for different sections inside, don't just make everything alphabetical going up and down. Next, you know, internal linking, linking from content to other pages, I think that's a big usability thing where somebody's reading something, you're talking about something that's somewhere else on the site, link to it. Get that link there and just cross link everything that you can, don't just rely on the navigation to get people where they want to go. Next, I'd look at shopping cart issues, making sure that the forums are not too long, not too complicated to fill out. There's a lot of usability issues with forums, if you miss something, I've been on places where you're typing, fill in your information, you hit the submit button, and it tells you you forgot something, you have to go back and re-add all the information again. That's just annoying. Next, let me think, that's three, right? Go for five. I know I'm going to get this back somehow. Having calls to action, let people know what they want to do or what you want them to do if they're on a page and you want them to purchase now, then say purchase now with a link or a button or something, or if you want them to contact you, put that on the page. Every page should have a call to action at least one, if not more, not just the ones that are in the navigation. In the content, there needs to be those calls to action. Finally, I think headings throughout the content breaks it up a little bit, makes it easy to scan. I think that can do wonders for people that are certain from page to page. Use your H1s and H2s, all your H tags, as well as you can, to really draw the attention to the certain piece of the content and let the visitors know what sections or what the sections of the content is about. Okay, let's talk session IDs, since we're looking at stuff that can kind of throw up a stumbling block, if you're trying to get ready optimizing your site, tell our listeners what's the problem with session IDs, why do we not want those in there? Basically the session IDs, because what happens is every user gets a different session ID, and so every link that they click on is tagged with that ID, and if you've got 10,000 users, you're looking at 10,000 different URLs for the same page. So the search engines come, and they get the same type of thing, each time they come to your site and spread it inside, they may be given a different session ID, and even if you exclude the session IDs, and I've seen people do that where the search engines don't get them, but only users do, still if your content is being bookmarked, if links are being followed, if people are adding links in their blogs, usually those links will contain the session IDs, and again what you're doing is you're creating duplicate content, different URLs for the exact same page. So the search engines can get around it, but it's better, it's cleaner, it's easier if you just avoid them all together. Cool, now RSS, not much is noted here that I can tell, but of course with blogs comes with the RSS feed, the real simple syndication feed, and I find it an excellent marketing tool, simply because it's the cheapest and easiest way for people to reuse your content and give you some free links, especially links to content you've already written, and you've crafted to hopefully market your own website a little bit. Now would you say adding the auto discovery tag to individual pages is a good idea as well? Yeah, you lost me to that one, I don't know if the auto discovery tag is. That's the exact same reaction I just had, I'm like, no, sorry, so why don't you listen to that for us. I would be glad to. The auto discovery tag, if anyone here uses Firefox, when you're going through a site you'll find that when you load a particular page you'll get a little feed icon appear in your address bar, that feed icon is appearing because it knows there's a feed available on the page. Now if you add an auto discovery code on each page of your site, let's say you've only got one RSS feed for your one blog, that will appear in every page that loads and they're all able to get access to your blog that maybe will deepen your site. The beauty of it is of course any feed aggregators that may just be spider in the net looking for good feeds will have no problem whatsoever finding your feed and indexing it, which like I say it gives you some great extra exposure. I find it quite a handy thing and I try to get most of my clients to input it, but unfortunately not a lot of them have blogs yet, I'm still pushing that, but I think that's pretty important. I mean I think blogs are really just second to your home page in power, they can do so much and the amount of exposure you can get just a good blog is immense. Okay, Jennifer how about you? Actually, you know what, I think we're coming up with just a couple of minutes left to go, so why don't we do a little bit of round robin here and I'd be curious to hear from both you and then I'll give my answer. Would you rather work on a brand spanking new site or a completely messed up site that's been around for five or six years and why? I like the messed up sites that have been around a while just because you can make some changes and you can see the results a whole lot quicker than if you're working with a brand new sort of site that has no authority, no links, no nothing behind it. I'm glad you asked. Well, my first instinct was saying new site just because I love getting my hand in there and making sure it's as optimized as it possibly can be right from the get go. But I have to admit, Tony's got a point, I really like seeing the impact quickly and I also like looking at how the, I don't know, the backlinks, I guess doing all the changes because if you're going to change URLs and oftentimes when you get a bad site, you have to. You're going to have to do the full 301 redirect camp, you know, pretty much like a campaign. I mean, you've got to go through everything, get all the old URLs, pass them to the new URLs, submit it to the Google Webmaster tools and then switch it around and give them like, so you give them the old one and then you give them the new one and then they go and they find the new redirects and then you give them the new site map to show them what the new site is. It's quite the system and I actually kind of enjoy that kind of work. It's a lot of work, but I mean, it makes me feel like I'm really earning my, earning my keep. Jennifer, you got anything else like that? I don't know. I think I'm going to have to argue against you guys on that and maybe it's because I'm a control freak, but I would just, I'd so much rather start off with a fresh and clean site because I just can't help but think if you're cleaning up someone else's mess, there's so many little things you got to catch to make sure, you know, you're not missing it. And if you're having problems and it's not, you know, ranking or whatever, they're just, oh, I mean, I guess you got Stony's checklist here, you know, to work through to find these problems. But nonetheless, for me, getting in and kind of building it up from scratch and knowing that everything's in place, just how I want it to be. And honestly, with, you know, with a lot of the social media marketing now, getting the links and getting the exposure and even getting the rankings, you know, depending on what the industry is, it just doesn't seem as difficult. So I guess maybe if you're talking, you know, really, really competitive field, yeah, it's probably going to be a lot easier to start with something that's got, you know, some domain authority and some links coming in. But I think for the most part, I would much rather work with something that's new and just kind of orchestrate everything, the way I want it to be right from the start. But again, maybe that's just a pretty good measure, too. I mean, the people are so, I don't know whether this is, oh, yeah, I mean, you finish getting a site cleaned up. It gets finally starts getting rankings. It feels great to see the client so happy. I mean, they finally have a site where the new clients with the new sites are happy when they start getting rankings, too. That's true. But they haven't had already that. I like being the fixture. I like being able to fix the problems. That's because your men. Well, that's still part of being the SEO. It's like you want to go in, you want to fix the things. And it's cool to start with a clean slate and have everything the way you want it. But the discovery process is what's wrong with this. I want to find it and I want to fix it. And you do that and then you go, now what's wrong with it and find that and fix it. That part to me is just way cool. All right. Well, I want to thank everyone for joining us today. I want to say thanks to you for coming in and letting us pepper you with questions and having to run most of the show for us. It was great to get your input. I want to thank everyone for listening again. This was SEO 101 on Webmaster Radio. I'm Jennifer Evans-Lekock, Editor-in-Chief of Search Engine Guide, and my co-host is Rasta and CEO of Step 4th, and you can catch us every Monday afternoon on Webmaster Radio. [MUSIC] [BLANK_AUDIO]