Billy & Lisa in the Morning
Karen Read Trial Recap 6.24.24
Hey guys, it is Ryan. I'm not sure if you know this about me, but I'm a bit of a fun fanatic when I can, right? I like to work, but I like fun, too. And now I can tell you about my favorite place to have fun. Shumba Casino. They have hundreds of social casino-style games to choose from, with new games released each week. You can play for free, and each day it brings a new chance to collect daily bonuses. So join me and the fun. Sign up now at shumbaughassino.com. Sponsored by Shumba Casino, no purchase necessary. VGW Group, void where prohibited by law, 18-plus terms and conditions apply. Okay, we're back. Sorry, I was sipping my coffee. I wanted to be geared up for this because our in-house legal expert, Katherine Loftus, Councillor Loftus, good to see you back in studio. Yes, there was testimony. Actually, the defense has started presenting its case. But first, if you don't mind, Councillor, I would like to discuss the street brawl that happened by these people. Do they get their mail at these bars? They're constantly... But we should mention what we're talking about, we're talking about the Carrenree trial. The Carrenree trial, and this could be the last week of testimony, correct? Yes, it will be the last week of testimony because I think they're probably going to wrap up maybe today or tomorrow. I don't think they're going to have much more of the accident reconstructionists and maybe one or two more, but I think the defense will be short and sweet. That seems like a short presentation to me. You know, I think they might not have even had to put any witnesses on it. It's always a risk as defense counsel, if you say, "Hey, we're just going to arrest, we're not even going to put any witnesses on to rebut the Commonwealth's evidence." So usually people don't do it when they decide to instead, you know, if you saw their witness list, they had, I think, 50, 60 witnesses, and so we're probably only going to get five or six of the witnesses that they think are the most pertinent to, you know, rebut the testimony that the Commonwealth put in. But certainly a lot speedier than the Commonwealth was. I didn't see much of the testimony, but I saw the doctor on the stand who said, "Yes, the injuries on his arm were caused by an animal." Dr. Russell, yes. She was very good. I thought she presented very well, and I think as we've talked about many times, it comes down to expert opinions, what the jury thinks. Basically, what she said is, from her perspective and her background in training, that she believes the injuries on her arm are consistent with any animal. You know, can she rule it out exclusively? No. Can she say it's a large dog exclusively? No, but I thought she was fairly credible. I thought she was too, and I actually thought that Brian, the plow guy from Canton, came across very credible too. He did, and overall, I thought from the defense witnesses, they presented, they just were a little friendlier, and sometimes when you have a witness who just seems more likable, you just tend to believe them a little bit more. You listen to them a little bit more, so I do think that they were persuasive. But for the defense that probably didn't need to present a defense, they seem to have pretty good witnesses. Well, and you always have to remember that the defense is going to, what their job to do, again, is to create reasonable doubt, right? And we know that they have poked many holes in the Commonwealth's witnesses, but they also want to put their own testimony on and their own evidence on to not just poke holes, also to say, hey, we actually have somebody who says the exact opposite of what the Commonwealth is saying. And even if you don't necessarily believe what the defense experts say, when it's enough that you have one from the Commonwealth, one from the defense, it's kind of a draw if you can't decide which one is more reliable. But we should mention that Brian, the plow guy, his nickname is Lucky. Yeah. So he was talked about in the trial with Sergeant Talley Talley saying that they didn't think that he was reputable enough. Right. So what they said, I don't think it was necessarily to his character, but that when they interviewed him, he changed his story about the timelines and multiple times so that they didn't find him his information to be credible enough to rely on. So Lally tried to cross examine on some of that, but he did pretty well under the pressure. I thought he did too. If you just tuned in, we're talking with their counselor Loftus about the Karen Reed trial. The Karen Reed trial, of course, is capturing everybody's attention nationally. It is. I started on national networks again last night. And the story goes that, well, she's being charged with driving over her boyfriend and killing him with her SUV. And of course, her defense is saying it's a complete cover up. She didn't do it. And Winnie, you had a question. Well, no, Billy has alluded early. We don't normally talk about the Germanics outside of the court. We very much stick to the courtroom. Yes, we try to. But we have to talk about what happened over the weekend. Completely. Yeah. So for these who don't know, Turtle Boy, who was a local vlogger, kind of broke the case two years ago about what was going on with this case. And he's very much pro-Karen Reed, which is really fine. And he was out in Canton. And some of the prosecution's witnesses pulled, who's related to them, aka the Alberts. They're in-laws. And Courtney Proctor, who is the Michael Proctor's sister, who was the very questionable detective, rolled up on him and assaulted Turtle Boy. Now, does this not just go back to likeability, how are you just saying the defense is way more likable? This is your prosecution. The whole side, these people are involved, related to all these people that were on the prosecution. And they're very unlikable people. You know, I think, listen, I think I tried to stay out of the drama of it because, you know, because a lot comes from it. And usually it's purple. But I think the interesting thing that I did, I got sent to the video of them last night. And I think it's a little problematic that Turtle Boy is going to see it from Kathy's, which is next to D&E when he has active witness intimidation charges against two people. But you know what he's doing that for? He's doing that for a reason. He's smart. He's doing this to improve. I'm just going to a restaurant. Right. But I think the aggressive one. Right. And I think that's the point. So I think, you know, you're going to have two different perspectives from it. You know, I see it as not appropriate if you have active charges and superior clout with people. And then you're really taunting and antagonizing. And you know, it's it is clearly who these people are. I mean, they're rough and tumble and they're rough around the edges. I'm not, you know, I said to Billy, at least with this one, I'm not surprised. It reminds me of hanging on Ellen 8th and Southie and like someone's got a beef and it comes flying out the car. Very true. But she also fell right into Turtle Boy's car. That's he was ready when he's born. Right. That's the problem. You have to have the chauffeur strength. Yeah, that's what he wants. I'm almost like at the end of the day, like, let, let Turtle Boy do what he's going to do. Like he, this is what he does. Let him do it. Like, who cares? He's going to a restaurant. Just you go back and go back and pull up. You drive like a bunch of thugs. I'm sorry, Courtney. Your brother's the one that messes. It was Jill, right? Jill Daniels, who actually physically assaulted him on camera is the sister of Julie Albert, who was married to Chris Albert, who is the brother of Brian. You couldn't write this, and then who's driving the car? Right. So what happens to Jill Daniels? So I think she'll get a summons probably first on that. Because if it's not witnessed by the police and it's a misdemeanor, then you can't be arrested. I'm saying it has to be the police after witnesses. So because they came after the incident, so she'll get a summons into court probably in the next month or two. I cannot believe how emotionally connected everybody is to this trial, even nationwide. I had a listener come up to me yesterday saying, I listen every day. I listen every day. Karen Reed is 100% innocent. I can't believe you have that lawyer on it. She doesn't know that. I'm like, call into the show. I said, we do not formulate opinions on our show. We're going to listen to the other. Oh my God. I was just out walking the dog. Couple of minutes ago, we were talking about emotions running high outside one of the local bars. And we've got somebody on the phone anonymous who was there. Oh, baby. So good morning anonymous. Good morning. So you were there? What did you see? What did you hear? I was there just having a beer with my husband. And we noticed her at a boy was having dinner. It was he was lovely. We went up and said hi to him. Then he left went outside. And all of a sudden, everyone kind of ran to the window and started watching chaos into the crew next door was yelling. He was videotaping back and forth. So what did you see? And then Jillian and Daniel pulled up. Blue out of her car, like it was as if it was in like a movie and just started screaming, grabbed the phone. He stayed time the entire time. It was just it was wild. Then then the police came and there was a news truck there. It was just it was it was out of a movie. It was insane. Did they take her into custody? No, they did not. And then people who kind of I was standing next to, they were saying that because I don't know the legal conversation of it, but because the police didn't see the act themselves that she needs to do some different. I don't know. I forgot what it's called, but a summons. Yeah, I think she's gotten a son. Yeah, they need to do that because they didn't see it. Well, thank you for listening and thank you for the call and I witnessed the brawl outside the bar. I'd be curious to see how much business has improved that these local bars that everybody goes to. Oh, I think, you know, at least probably for the next year or two, it's, you know, like the look you lose. I drove by the hillside pub a couple of days ago, it was packed, parking lot. Well, you keep driving by this. It's right next to me. It's him melted on like the, or tent where you can't, but it's on the middle line, right? Like right, right off highway. At least it's like, let me just show you how to drive around. I get my gas at Blue Hills Gas all the time. It's the best price in town. Your parents are in town, so you probably took them on the car and read to them. I haven't, but I will. Let's get some questions here. I have a question for Katherine. On Friday, now that the defense is having their turn, why is it that sometimes we hear from Jackson, sometimes we hear from Yannetti and sometimes Miss Little? How do they decide who's going to go? So that's strategic. They do that whatever they're, you know, when they're prepping about what who wouldn't, which witness each attorney is going to take. They did it and they alternated with the Commonwealth's witnesses if you notice that Jackson took most of the police witnesses and Yannetti took most of the civilians. And then generally they put attorney Little in when there's not going to be a huge back and forth. It seems like maybe it's a little bit more directive across examination or there's not going to be as many questions. They lead sort of the more litigious ones to Jackson and Yannetti, but that's really just the back and forth. It also helps the jury in that contrast with the Commonwealth who just has Adam Lally asking the questions because, you know, it's nice to see the different styles and switch up. So it I think it's good for the jury to see different, you know, so outside the courtroom, they each prep for the person. They're going to be dealing with, which I guess makes sense. It's getting crazier and crazier. It's all over the national, the network news now. And boy, turtle boy like comes out of nowhere and like he's like the most famous guy around. Yeah, seems to be. Do you think somebody in the bar called the family and said turtle boys at the bar having dinner? I think it seems like the people, the family was, I mean, it's D and he's next door. Chris Albert owns it. So, you know, he's there. He's working. I'm sure there were a couple of other people there. And then once they found out turtle boy was there, I'm sure that's when Jill Daniels, yeah, yeah, yeah. They all need anger management. Everyone's so angry. Yeah. Like once you know, I think it'll be really interesting. I think when everybody gets like a break and we take can take a step back from, you know, once we get the verdict and once, you know, tensions have kind of died down to really look at all the little intricate pieces that have gone on both inside the case. And as well as the part, you were telling us off the air a couple of minutes ago that Mark Wahlberg's production company is possibly working on a documentary on this? Yes, that's that's my understanding. Yes. And I think like we were saying, I imagine there's going to be a number of different documentaries and Netflix as well. Yeah, she's probably got a book deal. I would think there's going to be lots to come from this because this is a story that is pretty entertaining. It's like the Murdoch case down in South Carolina. Justin? Well, Katherine, when you, you know, when and if they ask you to be a part of any of these documentaries, can we get a shout out? Of course you can. Oh, we'll have legal analysts have kissed one of me. Hey, you know, really at least a show on kiss. Yeah. Wow. This God, this trial is fascinating to me. We do need to keep going here. Yeah, let's get so many. I have a question for our favorite Jenny. What is going on with the jury when they go to lunch? Are they allowed to talk about the case with each other or has no communication really happened between them to kind of get a feel for what each other's thoughts are so far. So technically, they're not supposed to. I have always found it hard to believe that they're not, you know, I don't think that when this one, not to deliberate until the end of the trial. So it's not as if jurors are going back every time they're on a break or on lunch that they're really getting into the substance of the testimony. But I would be surprised if they're not having some chatter back and forth. We've been here since mid April, you know, clearly what happens a lot of times in these jerseys is people form relationships with other jurors, you know, they really become it's kind of they must be besties now. They're going to go for a week. Or there could be some infighting. It goes both ways. So when the trials over, can the jury then speak to the media? Yes, and it's always up to them. So it's not an obligation. They could all remain silent. They don't have to talk to anybody, but it's always interesting when we at least if we get a couple of jurors who talk to give a little bit of insight into what everybody was thinking behind the scenes. Well, they're saying there's a chance the defense could rest as early as today, which means then the judge would instruct the jury when probably so if it is a half a day, which I'm not 100% sure of, but then she would do it tomorrow. If the defense wants the defense rest, what they'll do is they'll renew the emotion for a directed verdict, which is what Alan Jackson did on Friday. Does that ever work that the judge says? You're right. I couldn't hear more cases over. Does it ever work? Very, very rarely, but it's almost never in cases like this. It's usually in, you know, something that's a two day trial, maybe in district quarter, but the standard really is so basically the defense always has to preserve their appellate records. You have to file for and move for a directed verdict. That's what Alan Jackson did at the close of the Carmel's evidence, and then they do it again at the close of the day. So everyone always has to do it. They always have to do that. All right, back to the phones. Or you wanted to do a talk back, Justin. I mean, either or I mean, these they're lined up over here. Hi, Catherine. So you have previously mentioned that like Brian Hagen's and Brian Albert's getting rid of their phones is like it's unlikely that they're like texting about a murder cover up, but there's likely things on there they don't want to come out. Hypothetically speaking, if they hadn't gotten rid of their phones and there was other stuff on there that they didn't want others to see, could that actually publicly legally come out or no? But I would say if it didn't have anything to do with the case, likely not, because when if you're seizing somebody's phone as the police or if you're getting a rule 17 motion to get the records from it, they're looking for something specifically. So they did want the information from, you know, that January 28th through a set date and eventually, and it's really interesting because they were ordered to preserve the phones, right? And then got rid of them. But ultimately, the order was denied. So if they had just held on to them, not destroyed them or got rid of them, and then the order was going to be denied, nobody was going to see the phones anyway. So it's it's kind of this nap, but because they did, they got to argue, you know, the inference that there was something on them. But if it was, you know, if it was things like how Michael Proctor was talking about Karen Reid, unless it had to do with the case, it likely wouldn't have come out at least in this aspect. Again, like everybody else, we're talking about the Karen retrial. Justin, you haven't had to talk back? Yeah, we'll do one more here. I was just wondering if anyone thinks that the final defense witness will be Chloe. What if she walks in like with dad to the bone playing a hair bow in our hair, some sunglasses on, and Jackson is like, here you go. We have Chloe down the fan. Who's Chloe? The dog. Oh my god. German Shepherd. Oh boy. The missing German Shepherd. Well, the doctor on the stand did say the wounds were caused by an animal. We got a lot of weird things happen. So you just never know. Imagine the shepherd starts walking down the aisle. Well, that's a big that's a big question. You think prosecution is still going to have the rebuttal witness for the dog bite? That's a good question. I actually was wondering that I honestly, I feel like, no, there's no, at this point, everybody just wants people already have, and I think jurors have already decided, you know, which one we want to believe, I don't think a rebuttal witness is really going to do anything at this point. So, you know, give it to the jury, let them start deliberating. All right, that's Catherine Loftus, our legal expert. There's Chloe in the background. And from Loftus and Loftus, you can find her on social note, my objection. That's right. Thank you. And so we think it's a half day. I saw a report that said the judge had a hearing for the Brian Walsh case at two o'clock this afternoon. I could be wrong. But there will be some testimony today. You coming in tomorrow? I am. All right. Catherine Loftus, it's time for today's Lucky Land horoscope with Victoria Cash. Life's gotten mundane, so shake up the daily routine and be adventurous with a trip to Lucky Land. You know what they say, your chance to win starts with a spin. So go to luckylandslots.com to play over a hundred social casino style games for free for your chance to redeem some serious prizes. Get lucky today at luckylandslots.com. No purchase necessary. VGW Group void were prohibited by law 18 plus terms of condition supply.