The Lunchtime Catch Up
The Durham and Caldwell effect
Hey guys it's Ben Mackay here you're listening to the lunchtime catch-up podcast [MUSIC] He's getting really involved he goes up barrel, Jackie Strick and put out the extra sunlight barrel, and he's down over from 60. Sam Durham hasn't seen a moment like this in his life. Picked up in the mid-season draft two years ago. [MUSIC] Can he handle a moment? [MUSIC] Welcome back to the lunchtime catch-up podcast. The lunchtime catch-up podcast is two blokes in and then each other forever. The catch-up most days in the Melbourne CBD for lunch. We'll talk everything else in a footy club, my name is Grant and with me is Scott. >> Hello everyone, good to be back. >> Yeah, so it's, right, round 15 just happened. And yeah, the team that is a bunch of frauds and hasn't played anyone, yep, somehow after round 15 I've third on the ladder. So all the buyers are done, we just now continue on with all teams playing each other. So now that all the buyers are done, we can have a proper look at the ladder and have a look where the asset on football club is and no, look, they're third on the ladder. So, and interesting enough, I will point out that the Collinwood football club there percentage is 102.7, Collinwood 107.3, Geelong 102.9, Port 101. So now that we've actually had all those buyers out of the way and looking at the ladder. The percentage actually started, maybe the other teams are catching up to us as far as dropping their percentage. But there's a few teams around us that actually have a similar percentage now. So, look, we're taking all the boxes. >> Yeah, look, I'm being a little bit cheeky, but it's just I think we're all a bit tired of fans constantly messaging us on social media and people will go to a work and people we know haven't played any, mind you, it's like, yeah, yeah, have you travelled five times in just eight, just one minute now? >> Yeah. >> Yeah, so the whole narrative to me is like, yeah, forget it. So look, there's no, they don't count into anything like where were the teams out when we play them. You know, if you remember, we played the Saints, just as an example, they were flying at the start of the year, though, in the eight, we were playing it. And they were playing good footy against us and we just, we ended up getting over the top and just winning the game. The Bulldogs were actually not too bad for them, we'd clean them up, the Giants were in decent form, we did that, you know, Collinwood was at the start of the year, was in pretty good form. That was a draw, obviously we hit a Red Hot Carlton, yeah, we didn't win, but we still didn't disgrace ourselves. >> The GC in the GC, all of those games made, I don't know, it's, we didn't win and wins and losses matter, but we were in those games. We were well and truly in those games and we've had two weeks or three weeks or whatever it was where we weren't kicking straight and it's genuinely affected our ability to win a game. You show what we did last night, not before, and things look a hell of a lot better when you're kicking 15 goals nine. >> Yeah, well, I mean, a friend at work said how the hell is Essendon third? And I treated this out, but I kind of said, well, the fact is actually the last 10 games, we've only lost two. So on that premise, we've gone up the ladder, it's just insane, it's like, it's actually quite simple. Like, well, we only lost two of the last 10, which kind of means we're doing really well. So that's, you know, that's where the football clubs at. And I realize we've got a challenging month ahead, but I go with them, I go into those games knowing that my team's going to come in and approach the game hard and they definitely got a chance of winning and I think they've got a good chance against the cats. I think they've got a real good chance against the D's coming up. >> Yeah, but also to think about the progress, not just from the club, like from what we were last year, but look at the progress again of Durham, of Caldwell, of Jakey being consistent, of all of these incredible improvements from the club this year, I genuinely don't understand how you can't be bullish, how you can't be excited about this. So that's why I don't, I don't understand, I hear it a lot about, oh, we just don't put, we didn't look like a top four side, we didn't play like, wow, I just, we've got to win the games that are put in front of us, right? And five of those have been into state so far. >> Yeah, and look, the fact is, I actually think there's something about the way we play that actually makes it very hard for us to smash teams. It's very complex and you could talk about it at length, but it is something about the way we play and with the high press and everything like that, that actually makes, it's helping us win games, but it's also leading to not really those 60, 70 point wins, but I mean, the fact is that, you know, most Essendon fans who have been around the last 20 years fully understand that even with third, which is amazing at round 15, it really is. >> It's still, the verdict is out as we're even a top five team. >> Exactly, great. >> And there's a lot to play out the next nine games. And yeah, you can see in these games that we've still got a lot of growth to come, there's still areas where we're not hitting our straps, but God bless the players, resilience, and who just keep on turning up and more often than not when the game needs to be won. They put their hand up and they win the game. And that's what the Eagles, the Eagles game is, it wasn't the most perfect win, it wasn't, you know, there was areas, you know, you could go, oh, it's you, the Eagles got on top, you know, I mean, when minus ten and stoppage, they even out tackled us in some ways, but saying that we had the ball, I think 108 more times. So it's hard to tackle when you've got the ball for us to tackle them when we've got it consistently. >> Yeah, you can take that into account, actually. >> So, but look, the stoppage work here, it's Anthony, who people know, Anthony Prokon on Twitter mentioned in his blog that I read, it's really good blog that in the last five rounds, we're ranked 18th for stoppage differential, clearances. So you know, the coaches would know that and go, there's a lot of work to do. Now, I reckon in the back of their mind, they're also thinking telling the fitness staff, can you get perish? >> Yeah, deep perish would be very handy, yes. Because that's going to be a critical element towards the back end of the year to get Darcy up and running properly. And not coming back how he was the first one or two times, because you felt like he was playing a bit gingerly and just not with conviction, he needs to have in his mind that his body is right. >> The Durham, the difference in the Durham piece, right? He needs to, like Durham last night was just, he was everything, right? Like he was, he was, he was that dynamic, incredibly fast, incredibly powerful guy that we saw at the start of the season and that we, I sort of looked and thought over the last shit a few weeks, he's been great, but he hasn't been that dynamic force that he was last night. We need Darcy back to that piece. We need not what we saw for a while there, but we need him back to that dynamic piece. >> Yeah, and it's a stoppage clearance king, and I mean, he was, he was what, top three in the AFL, you know, at his peak around clearances. So we need that Darcy back and that then, you know, that rotation of Colwell, Merritt, Durham and Darcy Parish, gee, that becomes really lethal. And then you're talking about a really dynamic midfield. So I look, I think most of all, you know, we'll go with the players before, but I mean, the whole talk out of the game. And I think it's been one of the massive storylines is here is Colwell and Durham and the, the very rapid changing dynamic of the acid and midfield. So yeah, yeah, so that to me has been one of the kind of best talking points you could ever have, because I really didn't rate out midfield to be honest previously. I thought it was disjointed, it was one size. And now, you know, the competitiveness of Colwell and Durham, I mean, yeah, some of those plays Durham did just forcing the ball forward was amazing. But I actually thought Colwell's in and under stuff, those two players, yeah, what is it? Just a fairly decent trade, two second round picks what for Colwell and a mid-season draft pick up for Durham, gee, it's becoming a... Who'd have thought, like Colwell had pedigree, he was, he had... He was pick 11 on the draft, yeah, he had pedigree, but I don't even reckon GWS would have seen him be this hard at the ball and be this in, oh, maybe they would have, like my mate, he was in an under midfielder. Yeah, they didn't like him going, so I thought they would have, but at that time they also had a very dynamic midfield. Yeah, true. But yeah, he's, we've just been able to capture that and yeah, it's just the grunt of those two. And the step up, since, since Parrish hasn't been there and Shield hasn't been playing, that Merritt hasn't had to do the whole damn thing himself. He's now got two blokes that have tapped on his heels, sort of saying, mate, any time you want to let us crack at it and they're letting them ever crack at it. And it means that Merritt doesn't have to do it week in, week out and Parrish doesn't have to either. So when Parrish comes back, it'll be great, you can have another just all class sort of midfielder back into the mix, but at the moment, the step up is just, I reckon Durham is got to be close to the top five most improved footballers in the AFL because he's not just taking his number one. I honestly believe it. I'm not even being biased. After this game, I have him as the most improved player. Yeah. In the last 12 months, I mean, you talk of other guys over the two or three years, but just to share, you know, just started a new role in March. And now, you know, three or four months later, we're talking. But not just doing well. One of the best midfielders in the past, not just doing, not just improving his kicking efficiency or taking 1.7 more marks around the game, around the ground per game. He's really dominating midfields at the moment, like really dominating them. And like enormously impactful in a normal in and enormously, I'd say that quickly, impactful way, his presence, he is stamping on games or football, like he's kicking a goal every now and then. He's just what a difference and what a great pick up for the club. Now, I mean, I'll make the fire engine would have had a look at him and went, yeah, cool. We'll give him a go. He looks all right. But under no circumstances, did anybody see this coming? No way. I don't know where the club says. We've always thought of him in the midfield. We wanted to check him out, but nobody saw this kind of dynamic footballer in Durham. Yeah. And look, the beauty of it is, is, you know, we'll talk about Dersma as well, right, a bit later on. But the Colwell, Dersma, Durham, they're all aged, like 23. Yeah, that's right. I mean, that's the beauty of it. I mean, Pat Cox on a wing, you know, and, and, you know, you've got, you've got a really dynamic kind of midfield, all different shapes and sizes, all different different, very different kind of players. Experienced. And yeah. Those guys. They, you know, they, their peak is in three years of like when they're 26. So that's what the club will be very, very excited about that they got a young core of midfielders. And I know he hasn't he straps and we'll talk about it, but I'm still a big believer in Archie Perkins. I really am. I still think it's going to come. It's just coming a bit slower than I hoped. But I still think it's there. But here's another one that's obviously in the 22 21. So look, it's there's a really good feel at the club and, and I've talked about it often that how authentic this change feels because of, of the caliber of players that are coming through and how they're playing, it's not, it's not flashy. It's always like yesterday actually was, I did say the grant that felt a bit more 2023 yesterday where the defense wasn't a solid and we can keep a goals, but I'm sure that's a little bit more one offish. But yeah, it's, yeah, it's a really exciting group coming through. But look, we'll go to a break. We'll talk about some of the guys who really shined and some of the guys who still may need to improve and that sort of thing. So let's go to a break as I cure it up. We've got a quick break, we'll come on back. Yeah. Welcome back to the lunchtime catch up podcast. I probably came in there too early and you might not have heard that. Okay. Before we kick off, I just wanted to give a little special shout out to David Ma, David Ma is on the Facebook page, got in touch with me. He's got a grandson, a grandson called Hunter. Now we've finally secured Hunter apparently as an Essent and supporter. He was a bit this way and that way for a period of time, but the last couple of wins that we've had has secured Hunter as a supporter. So get a Hunter, you've picked the right team and go bombers. Well done Hunter, good selection, good time to... I was just going to say, you lucky little person, you've missed out on 20 years. But look, yeah, let's hope a whole lot of young kids start seeing the club in a different light and we can get some membership back. So look, just a little bit more on the game, sorry, I realised I didn't cover a few things. Obviously the 110 uncontested, whatever it was, it was like a crazy amount uncontested footy. Yeah, it was a very different Essent, like I said before, the break. So we seemed a bit taller, our marking around the ground seemed really good, I found the Jones to wing a really interesting move. The both the Eagles' wings were quite small in nature, sorry in height, not nature. But yeah, so we had some really good marking presence, even sometimes Cox was taking some decent marks and just his opponent just couldn't reach up to the height of Cox. So look, a really different matchup, chat out to Guelfi, just the coach had a role on McGovern, McGovern only had three intercepts, which didn't have that impact that McGovern normally has. Guelfi just stuck to him and just tagged him, basically. And then Guelfi, as he does, he kicks two goals himself, so he's got this habit of playing that role. Thank you to Jay Menzi, but I reckon Guelfi is now going to be called old two goals. Two goals, Guelfi, baby. Yeah, he's really kicking some goals this year. Speaking of kicking goals, we really have to mention someone that we didn't mention on the Patreon last night. Yeah, yeah, we went through everybody, we had a great game, completely forgot. Jake Stringer. But no, look, Jake, do you know what the funny part is? Just a side subject and we'll talk about Jake, trust me. This was the hardest voting of a game I've ever had. There was literally five guys that I thought were of equal value and kind of had major impact in all the positions. You know, I thought Laverde was sensational down back, 11 marks, just controlled the back line where the other backs were struggling. He had a huge present and a huge effect on the game. You could tell, by the way, you could tell a lot of the players on Instagram were retweeting some Laverde highlights. I think they are acknowledging the kind of game here as well. Yeah, you're right. And Draper said on the radio that, you know, he's told very high that maybe other people may think internally with the players, and that's because they would see his competitiveness. There's no doubt I still believe him and Colwell and Durham probably are the most competitive brutes, you know, not everything may go right with his ample Laverde or that, but you just want to contest, he'll put his whole body on the line. So look, obviously himself, Colwell, Durham, Merritt was absolutely sensational. Just forget about it. And the more you watch, honestly, I had Merritt around about fourth or fifth, the more I watched the game, and then seeing 13 score involvements, like, she had five goal assists, 29 possessions, and he got tagged. So that's what I mean. It was so hard. Oh, then when Merritt kind of went from fourth to second, you know, it was like, then I know Colwell was best on, or no Durham was best on, but then I had this whole narrative of like, well, well, minus 10 and stoppages, like, can I reward that part of the midfield? Yeah, yeah. You know, well, we got beaten up around the stuff, which is, but they were so good. So but probably in the end, as an equal first, I think I had to put Jakey, like Jakey had 20 disposals, five clearances, five goals, one, I mean, that's, that's a whole game, man. And yeah, so, yeah, it was just interesting, there was like five players, it just, it was like almost impossible to separate and, and Paul H1 would have felt on you a little bit unfair. Paul Zach Merritt, I think also suffers from the same old, same old about like, it's a bit like Rids. I mean, Rids had a challenging game this game, but sometimes Merritt is just, it's just another 28 touches for Merritt and 13 involvements and stuff. So it just sort of happens every week because it's not a surprise, but you could put him at number one easily. You could put him at number two behind Jakey. I personally had Jacob five, I'm with five goals, five clearances. It's just when he's on like that, Jakey's on and we'll win you a game. Yeah, exactly. So the, yeah, each one had like this, the most amazing stats. So I think there was something where Colwell, he had something like 34 pressure acts, which is, which is huge. No, 32, sorry, he had 32 pressure. Oh, honey 32 and not 34. Okay. Good. 525 meters gained. Yeah. So he was just unbelievable. So 11 tackles, 27 disposals and a goal. I mean, there's some of the stats. So I mean, it's like, how do you ignore all these stats and you go, well, maybe I just don't. I'll just say these are my top five. They're all equal. And thanks for coming. But yeah, Jakey, fantastic game. That puts him to 29 goals and length of 30 goals. So yeah, pretty much close, got 60 goals out of your two forwards so far. That's a really good result. So they haven't as much as Peter Wright's been a little bit quiet and he's obviously playing a lot of rock these days. So I do give him a little bit of an out there. But we haven't overly had to rely on that as well, though, that we've had two kind of two streams of kicking goals. And so that's been pleasing. So and it was a really good spread of goal kickers. So with your Langford two and your Caddy two, we'll talk about him. I was going to say, yeah. Yeah. Grophy two. So you've had. Which is what you want. And Peter Wright to answer. Yeah. And if you ask if you ask Brad Scott, I reckon that's that's what you want. You want dangerous options everywhere? Yeah. It keeps a defense on us. Absolutely it does. No one can sag off as much. So look, a really, really, really pleasing result and look, there's no doubt they're going to look at their stoppage of work because, you know, it's obviously to be in a month where our clearances have been well down. So look, it's that's still an evolution maybe of the Colwell and Durham and Merritt as a group. They've still got to work out that side. They no doubt try and bring Jake in to add a bit of gruntness and picked up his five clearances. I think the important part is also that you could feel the difference with Draper in the side. Draper got five clearances himself, but just he does have that brutish will kind of like not everything goes, goes fantastic. You know he's there though, but yeah, well, I truly know he's there. His physicality is there to see and when he's running fine and he doesn't have the ningly injuries in that, he's a very dynamic ruckling and we've kind of missed that. So now it's just getting that kind of gelling again between drapes and the mids to get sort of a bit more stoppage work. And again, that's a very good point. He hasn't, he hasn't, there's no sink at the minute, like he's been out for a good period of time and he knows where the boys want to go and where they want to position themselves. But then it's just a matter of them sort of starting to, it's the match fitness. It's like match fitness, it's magic time, it's match experience for Draper again. Just to get back into the flow of it before he starts to probably be more effective with his actual tap rock work. Yeah. So look, just before the game, there was a set of notified fans that there's going to be a change in the game where Goldstein really is just managed again. I actually looked, I actually loved it when they said it. And I know I'm an eight caddy fan so I go, that's an obvious reason to see Nate. But I actually liked it because I still feel like Goldstein's going to be very important in the busy end of the year. So the fact that he had like a double break, I actually don't mind him, just actually just just take a rest, get your body right again, especially with Sam being injury prone. Just you got to remember when he's right and running really well, like he was at the start of the year, the double team was really dynamic. So I actually didn't mind it for several reasons, but I actually thought, "Yep, give him the extra break." And I really liked the fact even at halftime, just the small things of just seeing Goldstein coaching Draper at halftime, just always involved in the game and the club. But yeah, it sounds like Goldie's going to come back likely this week against the cat, so that would be interesting. So Caddy comes in, I'm excited obviously, and yeah, look, he kicks, he has like I think four shots on goal, a five, I think it was maybe one or two desperate kind of karate kicks, try to add to the air almost, I agree, I was out in the fall, but he's had four or five shots on goal, he's kicked two goals, and that's all you want. I think for my fans to go as the second game, that's what you want to see from an 18-year-old key forward, you want to go, "Do I feel like he's dangerous?" And I must admit, there were several plays where, and this is, they're not going to get used to him yet, where actually he was alone quite a lot, so there was a couple of times he was on a wing, may have given a handball off, but I don't think they used to him then he sprints 80 meters forward, like when he sprints, he sprints hard, and then he gets wide open and they just couldn't see him, and they kicked to the other side of the ground, but they're not used to probably that side of the natives yet, so he'll have, once that kind of learn Nate's game, they used to it, I think they'll naturally think of that of him running hard, but look, he did, you know, it took a really nice pack mark, he's first going football, so that was just around foot if you don't mind. Yeah, so yeah, I mean, it was just really exciting, I mean, we were obviously, you know, we're probably, you know, it's just, as Jakey is turning, you know, at 30-31, it's just that nice, feel like eventual changing of the guard to another X-Factor kind of way. And as much as Sam Draper's got to be watching Todd Goldstein, and what he does, and if he's smart, he's watching him, and what he does, and how he does it, Nate Teddy would be training with Jake Stringer, seeing him get, how do you get those 20 touches, Jake, how do you kick those five goals, how do you be as dangerous as Jake Stringer can be, right, so it's, I'm very encouraged at the moment when we've got 23-year-old kids, 22-23-year-old midfielders, in behind Parrish and Merritt, just learning from those guys as well, and just a nice little transition as they get older, and then we've got the younger guys coming up behind. The same thing for the Ruck, we've got a young dynamic Ruckman, and again, Bryant, who's learning from a wise old head as well, and we've got that in the forward line. We've got Jakey down there, and potentially the bloke that, as a medium tall, who can play tall, Teddy will be learning from those guys down in the forward line, so it's a nice little progression at the moment, and I know people are probably screaming at the microphone at their iPhones at the moment, saying, "Grant, well, one minute, you'll say he's not ready, he shouldn't be playing." The difference between that and now is that we can bring Caddy in and not have to rely on him. Like, he doesn't have to kick five for us. String a Langford, but still the most dangerous forwards on the round. That's it. String a Langford right, and if it really came to it, we could have put Harry Jones down there. But it's also round 15. It's a little bit past that. Yeah, absolutely. And I'm more than happy that's a great experience for him, and he's kicked his first, and everybody got around him, and it's all good things. So we didn't have the pressure on the kid to be the number one everything down there at 19 years old. So I'm really happy to see Nate Caddy in the side. You can tell he's got the physical attributes. It's just literally time now, it's time getting the experience and learning. You can tell that physically he's still got another, you know, as a key forward does. It takes quite a few years to get the body of a key forward. Absolutely. He's got a few... 19. You can tell he still needs two more pre-season to get to probably where he wants it to be. But yeah, it's just, as Scott always says, he's got the attributes of an AFO player, and that's what I'm looking at. No, Jeremy said the same thing I saw in an interview that Jeremy went there. I reckon Essen and Mighty got the pinch of the draft here. And look, Jeremy doesn't like Essen. But yeah, even how I think he can say it's really encouraging, two goals, four shots at goal. And again, look, Harry Jones, I love you to death mate, but it's sort of that medium to tall forward in the forward line. He hasn't been looking dangerous, like he hasn't been looking dangerous to kick a lot of goals down there to hit the scoreboard. He's been doing everything else really well, but Nate looks dangerous. He looks like he's a forward, and he wants to kick goals. So moving Harry up the ground and letting him do the things that he's been doing really well, take marks, have a bit of a gallop, and he's good by foot on the run. So yeah, it's a nice little mix they've got going at the minute. Yeah, and obviously the other kind of move was Martin going more towards mid-field half-forward role. Clearly they listened to us. Yes. So what they'll do, I haven't seen any tribunal outcome on Redmond, I'm hoping he gets off, or otherwise it's straight back again, sorry, Martin probably. But it's that great old debate, and we even, when we talked to Ben Jacobs about it, we brought it up about, you know, the effect you may have coming from half back, and I must admit, Ben Jacobs put up a better argument than I actually thought of, of why the importance of that move was happening, and some of the areas of the ground that were being topped through in the AFL that I just went, "Oh, I didn't think about on that angle." But then the other side of it is, you know, what do you add, 10-11 score involvements? So yeah, 21 touches, but it felt like everyone was so important, and had so much-- Dangerous. Yeah, consequences to the opposition. And that's what you've got to weigh up because you just, I like personally Martin, not the ground, that's just my preference. Yes, same. But I understand, I understand what Ben Jacobs is also saying, because it didn't feel like our half-back line was always moving the ball cleanly, they were a little bit left and right, left and right, left and right, then turnover, sometimes a bit cute. So I kind of get, it is, you know, and when he said obviously, you know, you'd love three of them, and that's the reality. And you perfectly understand that. So they've got to work out that balance, and maybe they develop many more just to see how that even goes in that half-back. But just on the back six, and obviously Jaden being the outlier here because he was brilliant, it was an unusual game for the back five. Yeah, a little bit nervy, a little bit unsure what they looked like. Yeah, they just were a little bit loose on their man, their ball use, especially first half, Bobby Mainly, just some really weird turnovers. It was a strange, you know, strange, just sort of Ridley game I've seen for, I think, almost since maybe second year, I was like, you know, it just had an off-game, and that happens. Absolutely, that happens to the best players. Man's Cuban. But yeah, it just was an unusual, McGraw was a little bit off the first half. I thought Kelly struggled a bit, they're all trying, but it's just, for some reason they cohesion wasn't there all of a sudden, I'm just trying. And I'm sure that would be really, we've been, actually, take-ups. That would be, I reckon, I'll really hone in on that because... I don't think it'll be a concern for them. No, because it was an odd one, because it's actually been an area the ground they've shined in all year. Yeah, yeah. So... I wonder if Ben, you could almost sort of make it a simple statement to say that, again, I think I've said this before on the pod, they've just had not as good a game as they would have liked. It's just a simple one, like the few of them were down in that game. It feels like, yeah, it feels like, I know this sounds funny because there's nothing against the guy, but it usually means just the adjustments that have to be made. But since Ridley's come back, it feels like there's just a slight cohesion that they're working on coaching-wise. Okay. And that's not a Ridley thing. Yeah, that's just everyone working in a, you know, everyone steps to the left, right? Everyone plays a slightly different role when he's in. And you know, I thought Gold Coast scored on us a bit too easy. Obviously, the Blues scored on us pretty well. Obviously, the Eagles, I mean, Eagles, I think we're averaging in the high 60s this year as a score. They're suddenly scored 92. So that's just something that Eric and probably coaching-wise, still just working on just to get that gel again, just to, so that's just an area. I mean, yeah, so that and the stoppage work is probably their two primary areas. I mean, they clearly have been working on ball movement going forward. I mean, you scored 122 points. Yeah. It was the first time they've actually scored under 10 points since round five, meaning that it was 18 goals nine. So they're accuracy always helps as we say. Yeah, man. And that's the thing I would love to have seen that against Carlton and the Gold Coast. I know. Like, what would have happened if we had to put that scoreboard pressure on? Yeah, well, that's it. I mean, actually, I've had all these debates with Carlton fans, right? And they just so much think like, oh, we just played at 50% and just had what did- Carlton did? What did what we have to do to win? You go, no. No, no, no, actually it was held. Yeah. And so was King, just quietly. You don't know. Three shots within like 30, 40 metres that we missed. Absolutely. We could have been three. Just genuine misses. Yeah. That wasn't the minute we've come. We should have been three goals up and giving you something to think about. Exactly. We didn't. That's our fault. Bad kickings. That's football. Absolutely. And you capitalised in it because that's a good team. Well, they do. But it felt more still to me. I still think I'm quite OK to play Carlton again. It wasn't just Carlton beat us like out and out beat us. I'm more classy than us. I think that was the more. Yeah, I suppose. But again, it was that scoreboard pressure changes everything for me. And I always take a little bit from that, from games like that. I take a little bit from the GC game because they couldn't put us away. Neither could Carlton. We just, we hung around. And again, man, you know what they say? You put that scoreboard pressure on Nate and those three kicks go through and Langis puts his through that he normally just would kick left foot blindfolded. You put that kind of pressure pressure on back on Carlton and anything can happen. Yeah, I mean, Perkins running into a goal. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly correct, man. Nobody, nobody wants to play the SNF football club at the moment, right? Because we are dangerous, really dangerous to other clubs, especially clubs that, like Jollong and in Jollong's in real bad form, so they wouldn't be sort of being too confident in the way they play at the moment. But the likes of Melbourne and that will be sort of, they won't be liking the fact that the SNF is coming up. But won't be like a West Coast game for us where we are. We should win that. Like that's, we definitely should win. They'll be looking at us going, we don't want to play SNF because if Shakespeare gets on a tear, we could be in trouble. We're in the bookies right now where the favourites to be Jollong. Well, that's- We should be, man. Seriously. Yeah. I don't know, but just think about that. I don't know. It's 21 out of the last 25 or something, everyone on this. Yeah, so it's, it's, that's how much the year's going well for us. There's no Tomahawk next week. I believe that's confirmed. Yeah. I mean, he's on crutches today with the moon boots. So that's, that's confirmed. I haven't heard anything about Dangerfield's appeal, but we'll see. But if he's out then, then we're in with a big shot. Huge. Yeah. He really did. So, okay. So recently, I've been saying that one area we're struggling, we've tried to have makeshift players with Apple and Kelly is the wing, we've got our wingman back. Oh, yeah, yeah, because I was, I was just about to say, let's have a few bit of a chat about a few different players. First person I wanted to mention was Xavier Dersba. Yeah. I mean, first 30, 40 minutes, yeah, not so much. Understandable rust, you know, I hadn't played for a while. Then I don't know what happened, but a gong went off and I'm noticeable was it, though. Seriously. I think he had like 11 disposals in a quarter and then just marking off, you know, massive marks off half back and, and fall back, helping out the defense, running down the lines, running two ways, magnificent snap around the corner, gets the bow and arrow and like, you could not wipe the smile off my face harder. It was just like, oh, we've got a wingman, we've got a wingman. Thank you. Anyways, it just made me realize how the some plays are just structurally, they're so important to your side. They may not be your best six or seven players, but they're just so important to your side because you have so, you just have so little depth and quality probably there to be blunt. But also too, a real wingman, a proper wingman, like when Nick Martin was on fire and stuff, they're such an influential player. And I think the modern game has all but sort of forgotten what a genuine real wingman looks like and what the influence they can have because it's such a tough position to play. Not many people can do it really well. Well, you're like, you're like a collie when you go, you're so worried about Josh Dacos in a week and like what he can do on those wings and the real quality players have those quality wingman kicking into their forward line and running two ways. The running two ways is the big part, because he's kicked one and he's been influential going forward, but 80% of what he does is going backwards. And that's the hard part, man, because you've got to run both ways and to but not even just to sort of be down there, but to genuinely influence outcomes as well, to take those marks and to help those back line players, it's worth its weight and goal. And again, like I mentioned him in the group of Durham and Colwell, but the reason I do that, it's just such a blue collar competitor too. And that's what's coming through. It's just the grants and the termination and that's why incidents authentically changing. It's the plays that are coming through that they want to contest, then it's not a flash in the pan, they want to do some fancy stuff, they want to contest and that's what's coming through. And yeah, and that's what... I think it's 23 from the moment. Okay, so that's good, man, again, that's plenty of years to go. Thanks very much. Yeah, anyone can Google and see if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure it's around that. Yeah, plenty years, he's got seven or eight years left in him, so... Very nice. Yeah, so... Hey, just a quick stat, would I find really interesting, you've probably heard me on the pod say a number of times. When we lose, you can see on the AFL stats where the likes of... I'm not sort of Durham, but the likes of Zack Merritt and Caldwell and McGraw and Redmond and those kind of guys, they're just not in the top 10 or anywhere near the top in total possessions and the like... Well, if you look at the AFL app, right, the top 11 players for the total disposals is the S&B. Alright? We got Durham Laverde, which is just insane that he got 28. Merritt Caldwell, Ridley McGraw, now it's because the ball spent a fair amount of time down in our back line and we weren't, as like you said, as clean in the way we exited the ball, which is probably what Ben Jacobs is looking at his phone right now saying, "Yeah, told you boys." Yeah, there's a reason why we had him down there and how he can exit the ball out there, so that's fine. But it's just a really good stat to see Jake with 20 hepses up there again, Dersman, Martin, Redmond, McGraw, Ridley Caldwell, all of the prime movers for the club are all in the high possession getters. No, yeah, exactly. So it's funny, like the players we mentioned, it does actually fall away really quickly from... Or it does, like Sammy Draper with 17 after that, right? Yeah, Sammy Draper getting 17, he's actually a revelation. That's not bad. But it even felt like even just their form in the game, it was just, you know, I thought Jones was solid on a wing, but, and I mentioned Guelphie's role, but I actually thought Peter Wright was quite solid, he seemed to have a decent pair of hands on him. One, I generally thought he marked it well and well enough and it got called a taken away from him and they kicked a goal, West Coast, but yeah, I thought he looks really dangerous. With Draper coming back, he had to do a bit more rucking than he normally does. So that broke up his, you know, goal tallies, but when he wasn't full forward, he looked dangerous. So look, top 10, 14 players were pretty solid, there was no doubt there was some, some players. I think Archie's the interesting one for me and I know I'm going to mention him again, but someone asked me to talk about him, so I will. I'd love a breakout month, a month, a breakout month from the kid. It's an interesting one. I don't know, Scott definitely gave him quite a lot of center bounces and, and, and time. And look, it's not like he played poorly, he actually had some really nice moments. He had some, you know, used, you know, there's a couple of times he did some runs and, and guys who just could not tackle him just because he was so strong. Yeah, you know, so look, it wasn't like he had a bad game, but it just, we just haven't seen, I think, the early part of the year come back yet. There's still another level that Archie can get to that I know of and, yeah, he, he would just be any so dangerous himself with the ball in hand. That's why I really want him to get to that next level. And that next level has to be consistency. Like, I've seen the next level and it's been pretty dynamic, very good at it. But just how can it happen a bit more Caldwell and Durham like and, and maybe it, maybe it is an age thing, maybe is one or two years behind them and that's just a natural thing of. And the other thing too is that when Durham and Caldwell are dominating like they're dominating, is there any ball left for him? Right? Seriously. Well, they're so hunters, are they? Yeah. Yeah. So it's, but yeah, for me it would be a pretty critical outside player that you could handle to and good things normally happen. So I still would like him to see that guy next level. I know some people calling in that maybe he should go to the vehicle, no, no, he's not there yet. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. But the beauty of this game, because Scott did say it looked like there was no injuries, so it looks like we've got the same health. But you got Gresham who, you know, lost family members, so it was off for personal reasons. I think it was a grandfather or something like that. So we're sure the family, the, all the love. Yeah. So, but he'll, he'll come back. He's obviously definitely a senior player required. So interesting one, and Scott's kind of leaning on Goldie coming back. So there's going to be some changes to put some players that, you know, I can see, not to be against Menzie, but I can see an obvious Menzie and Gresham swap, which is being blunt. But it's not so obvious. I mean, you may actually find and sorry, you can tear down the show or anything like that. No, don't tear down the show. You may find for balance that Caddy actually has to come out again if Goldie actually has to play because Draper will go down the forward line and then there'll be way too tall. So Jones played on a wing. So I'm not even saying it, but that could be another scenario where Jones, but a good player will come, if he's Goldie and Gresham come in, then it feels like a tall, a fairly decent player will have to go out for that structure to be right against you long. So he's got now proper, thankfully good headaches Brad Scott on a Thursday to pick a team and some guys not overly deserving of a call out will have to be go though. But also get used to it. Right? Yeah. Everybody get used to it. No, Darcy's what? Three weeks away? Yeah. So there's your other factor when that is ready to go and then who comes out, right? Yeah. Yeah. We all want to see Caddy. I mean, he definitely showed enough to keep his spot, but he's also a rookie playing his second game mate. And there are people like Gresham who's earned their stripes and who deserve to come straight back into that side. Yeah. Yeah. Gresham, you need him. You need his forward brochure. I actually do believe that they need his mid field kind of craft as well. He obviously drifts up to the mid field sometimes. They just need that kind of... That's a good way of saying drift actually because he does sort of just use his way up. That's why he, for his career, he's averaged the 18-20 disposals because he's good at that role. And we actually still need that. And look, he's obviously, again, like Goldie, he wouldn't say nice, sorry, and physically had a good break from footy. I know. Well, yeah, for bad reasons, but yeah. Yeah. But his body would be really well ready to go again. So I think an up-and-go-on kind of Gresham would be good for us as well. Yeah, great. So look, really good selection headaches. And if you watched the VFL, Caddyfield played really well. I understand Shield didn't do too bad either. Yeah. Yeah, he had 26 disposals. He had 10, you know, nine clearances, he had 10 clearances a week before. So here's one that's an interesting one when you say we were 18th for stoppage clearances the last month. Yeah. Yeah. And it does have the ability to win your clearance. So Caddyfield does too. Yeah. There's another one. Like Caddyfield's sitting there going, can I get back in and who knows? Maybe he can. Maybe he can. Horses for courses selections maybe. Yeah. I mean, it was just nice to watch the VFL a pretty competitive game, but, and seeing Sadas Hobbs, Caddyfield Shield, midfield with Brian Rucking, Daniel White-Nah, that's a better look. Yeah, absolutely. And so Hobbs, you got, I think, 22, 23. So it's... I think there's another kid that's who's knocking at the door and is probably thinking, "When am I going to get back in?" So yeah, at least there's some proper, proper heat on selection. And that's a, that makes for a healthy club. Bo, look, just talking about Jelong, this feels like a massive game because it's normally, at the start of the year, I mean, especially after Round 7 when Jelong was 7 and Neil, you just looked at the draw and went, "Honestly, a hand on heart went, that's a loss." Yeah, that's a loss. Like, they just own us, wear their bunnies, I understand that, they're just, that's the team. They match up so well. It's hard, but we will get lead in end of story, yeah. Now there's that door opening moment which Jelong... It's not door opening, it's open. I mean, who beats us up? Dangerfield plays really well against us. Hawkins kills us. And I know that Hawkins is out of form, but... And so's Tom Stewart, just a bit. We make guys like that into form pretty well as a club. And it just, so the door is open. And you know, I think, I don't know if Guthrie's out for another week, I think he may be. One more week, there's the other midfielder, so Tana Bruin is out injured. So they've got their issues. And if you ever want a tag on a centre-half package along, it's just close, mate. This is the game. He's just like... He's everything down there. He's... He cuts Stewart's influence in this game and you've won the game. Pretty much. I genuinely believe that. Because that's like one of the... I mean, they've got many, many other names in that team, right? But he's the one elite guy that if you can limit, not even stop, but if you can limit his influence like we did with them against West Coast, against what's his face, you're right. With Tomahawk out and Danger maybe, and it's only Danger's second game back, by the way, would be if he plays. This is a... If we beach along this week, right? I wouldn't be sort of saying, "Right, the bunny status is gone. We own them now. We're back. Look out." You played him at a nice time. A plan him at a nice time. But you've got to grab it, don't you? And that's the thing. You've got to grab the opportunity. And now it's... I know it's a bit of a... It's a bit of a... Underhanded wear. We've got them when they're a bit there, I'm at the minute. I don't care. I don't care, man. We're gonna... We need to pinch this game. And look, only reason why I say pinch is because we are twenty-five out of the last twenty-five. We've been beaten. So I don't care that they're down at the moment and I don't care the top of it. No, this is one. Honestly, I said this to a friend and I said, "Look, I know they're seventh, but to me, they're third." Yes, right. In my head of like, you know, as far as the teams that we would struggle against every time we play them. And so there's a door opening and we're fairly healthy. And this is the time to grab Geelong. Absolutely. If we win this game, am I going to then hang my hat on the fact that we're premiership favourites? No. I'm gonna say we got Geelong when they weren't at their best. We did what we needed to do and we got a really important win. Move on. And just move on to the next game. What a win does do, though, in just in reality is you're ten, four, and one if you win with eight games to go. Yeah. And you do go... Okay. Yeah, but that's what I'm saying, that that's why this win is... It's really important even to get a win over, buddy, Geelong, right? There'd be players in that side that'd be six of those. This week, I don't care if it's one point. Yes. I just... W would be an amazing result. Amazing result for the players, amazing result for the stats and for the win/loss column, man. It helps us huge. And for me on a sentimental note, Dyson-Happels 250 years. Oh, yeah. Jay Gresham is 100, by the way, but 150, sorry. But yeah, Happel means a heck of a lot to me. I know people can see that when I talk about him. And I think to the guys who go to training quite a lot, we all have this view because you see what a person he is, like you see it at training, you see how much he goes around to every young player constantly speaks to him, currently encourages them more than anyone else by tenfold. And I'm sure Merritt does it to him. That's not even a... Merritt's the best thing that's ever happened is the perfect decision to captain because he's... We needed a tough... Yeah. This is how it is, guys. We needed someone to match Scott's narrative, basically. So... But Merritt, just as a teammate... Happel. Sorry, Happel. Sorry, Happel. Happel is a teammate and someone who loves the club, someone who trainings over will continually talk to fans, see every kind of fan and go to them, speak so earnestly, so humbly. I would love a win this week for Dyson Happel. On two feet. On two feet. He goes on shoulders. Him getting carried off on the shoulder. He goes on shoulders on a weekend if we win that, mate. Frankly, if we lose it, he's still going to shoulder, but... And I reckon Jollong would probably do that, but you're right, and I think everybody that's watched that bloke put his heart and soul into the club, he's... You know what they say? Old salt of the earth, mate, is Dyson Happel. Oh, he's just brilliant. He's a real nice bloke, and he spends time with a lot of people outside the football club. You see him on the ground playing kick to kick with the kids. I mean, he's a great bloke, and those kind of people are the reason why I love AFL football. I really do. You love that Nate Caddy's coming through, who's just got skills and talent, you wish you were him. But what you really should be wishing you were was Dyson Happel, right? Because he's gone through a hell of a lot, he's kept his head up. He's still performing like a first two footballers. He's still backing into packs, kamikaze, you like, and getting crunched. There's a face that goes on a wall, like seriously, that's the kind of bloke that goes that they put paintings on walls at the hangar for. So I will be there with very large bells on for his 250th. Thank you for that description. So yeah, so look, all the best, hopefully they can get a win for Dyson. Yep. Look, that's big game here in Shalom. Yeah, we're nine, four, and one, third on the ladder. So it's, it's, it's, I'm led off. I'm happy, man. I'm a happy man. You're going to be happy. Yeah, you can critique as much as you like, and I'm sure the coaches are doing. But when it's said and done, the boys really enjoy winning, and they do what they can to win. And it's every week. Yeah, it's, it's making, like if you look at the positive side of things, maybe it's, it's a great way to start your week. It's another win. We've got, along this week, it's a great challenge. We pinched this one, mate, again, I'm not going to call us flag favorites if we beat you along in their current state, right, because, but this is one of the ones we just got to pinch some really looking forward to seeing this win. And then what we can do after that. So I'm all for it. Lead off, baby. Yeah. Yeah. It's a big build up for week. Yeah. MCG, Saturday night, two 50th Dyson, all good, baby. So, and players will be managed pretty well from here, because I think there's two six day breaks. They say Saturday night, then we play Friday night against Colleen with the following week. Okay. So, very nice. Yeah. So big two weeks coming, go, bombers. Go, bombers. Thanks everybody for listening. Just as a reminder, we got our Patreon page. If you want to get down and become a Patreon, it's patreon.com/lunchtimecatchup. We do two extra shows a week. We do a first day night team selection show. If the game's on a Sunday, it's like a former late-man bench or whatever it is, but we do the first day night team selection show on the Patreon page. And then we do a Sunday or Saturday night, whichever it is, post-game reaction show. It's a raw discussion directly after the game. This week, Scotty and I will both be there, so it's tough to get back to Scotty's studio and then do the show straight from there, so it'll probably be the next day. But yeah, you also too, we get a heap of guests, you get first access to our guests like Ben Jacob. So, it's five bucks a month, man, five bucks a month, and you get a minimum of eight extra shows from us. So, you get over to Patreon and check that out. But a big thank you to everybody for the listeners. Go, bombers. We're going to take on the Geelong Cats this week, and we'll talk to you guys very soon. Bye, bamas. [Music], yeah. [Music], yeah. [Music], yeah. [Music], yeah. [Music]