FM Talk 1065 Podcasts
Dr. Sean Powers from the Dauphin Island Sea Lab. talked about Shark Week - Midday Mobile - Wednesday 7-10-24
You're listening to Midday Mobile with Sean Sullivan on FM Talk 1065. Right to 133 FM Talk 1065 and Midday Mobile, kind of having you along on this Wednesday. By the way, tomorrow, you know, people would ask in the past. Some asked earlier this week. They said, "It wasn't yesterday supposed to be asked the sheriff." Well, this week they moved it. So asked the sheriff with Mobile County Sheriff Paul Birch, "Is this coming Tuesday?" But tomorrow, retiring Baldwin County Sheriff and soon to be head of the Alabama Sheriff's Association, Hoss Mac is going to join us here. So it'll be a chance to ask the sheriff as he's on his way out in Baldwin County. That's tomorrow starting at noon. Can we cue the music? If we're going to introduce this, can we? All right, get the music going here because it is, at least on the TV and everywhere else, it's Shark Week and we're joined by Angela and Steven Stokes, endowed professor in environmental resiliency and director of the Stokes School of Marine Sciences at the University of South Alabama, senior marine sciences at the Dolphin Island Sea Lab and Chief Justice of the Supreme Court of Judging at the Alabama Deep Sea Fishing Rodeo. Ladies and gentlemen, the crowd goes wild for Dr. Sean Powers. Thank you, Sean. I didn't realize that the theme music would come out. Well, I mean, it's Shark Week, man, right? You planned. Yeah. So I don't know how many years it is now for discovery. It's got to be pushing two decades of Shark Week. They're just printing money. And it shows that, you know, I go through this stuff a lot when people say, "Well, there's been a Shark Bite you came in last time." Sharkbright and I said, "Let's look at the same time. How many people, unfortunately, were killed or injured in car wrecks heading down to the beach from Chattanooga or Atlanta or whatever?" And it just doesn't hold the attention that sharks do. Now, my favorite statistics that my Shark buddies like to give is you have a higher chance of being bitten on the New York subway than via Shark. Apparently, biting on the New York subway are quite a thing. We need to go back to long lining on the New York subway. But obviously, I mean, you could just look at it scientifically. You do. I look at it anecdotally. There's more sharks around. Fish and expand. There's just more sharks around. And there's no doubt. And we've talked about this before. A lot of it has to do with the protections and the federal management of shark species. And they are purposefully rebuilding shark populations. And I stress rebuilding because we know sharks folks, you and I age, in an ocean where sharks weren't that abundant. And weren't that abundant because of long line fishing and a variety of things, of exploitation. Now, you know, it takes sharks a long time to reproduce. Most species of sharks. The big ones you've told us over the past, they got to get. A great white has to be about at least 15 years old. Probably 20, 25 years old. Before it's viable. Before it's sharks reproduce. And then there's some other sharks that aren't in the smaller coastal species rebuild more rapidly. But even a bull shark takes a while. So there's going to be a lag and that's, you know, we'll see several generations. So we're not seeing what you think is the peak of this yet for shark numbers. No, I don't know if the management restrictions stay in for certain species. Now, certain species we believe are healthy enough, like a sandbar shark is what your fishermen will encounter mostly offshore that's responsible for the bikes. Those are still protected. We think those, the protections can be lifted on those. But then there's some species like dusky and silky sharks that are further offshore. That's still have some rebuilding to do to be at the populations. But my colleague Marcus Dreyman and I just published a paper. It really was Marcus's idea to look in the Hemingway archives in the Bahamas. So Hemingway was an avid fisherman. And if you look at his work in the '50s, he was very much into real development and better tackle and that was because he wanted to be the first in the Bahamas to land in an intact bluefin tuner or an intact blue marlin because by the time they fought them, the sharks would just eat them so much. So there's this reference in the Hemingway to Hemingway's talking about how difficult it was getting an intact shark or bluefin tuner and he says even with the Tommy gun we couldn't keep the sharks away. Wow. So obviously I am not advocating shooting sharks. That is illegal. You do not want to do that. But it shows you Hemingway fishing a relatively pristine ocean in the '50s around Cuba. Yeah, had to deal with incredible shark populations. Think about in the '80s and '90s when you and I started fishing, sharks just bite offs weren't that big of a thing. Yeah, I mean, once a while. And so now we're swinging back to the point where sharks are more and more. And we'll see, you know, for each species, hopefully the federal government starts reducing the regulations and the protections as those shark populations rebuild. But many people are surprised that, you know, we are purposely rebuilding shark populations because a healthy ocean has apex predators. And that's not to lessen the negative encounters with shark bites or fatalities, which are still fairly rare. I know that doesn't help the victims, but it is still fairly rare. But we're seeing more and more, especially from a fisherman's point of view, what a healthy ocean with sharks that are abundant looks like. And it's inconvenient to put it mildly, but, you know, that's what we're trying to do, is rebuild that system to where, close to where it was at its relatively unexplored state. Yeah, it is a break, I think, between kind of a pastoral understanding of the outdoors and a full natural one, you see it on land, right, reintroduction of apex predators. Wolves will say out west, right, and what they did to elk populations. And I'm a guy that likes to, you know, draw a tag if I'm lucky and head out west. They really have limited the population in some places, which is probably closer to what they would have normally been, but they, it sure was nice to have a pastoral situation where the apex predators weren't there, more elk for the hunters. But it's, you know, but if you're going to restore an ecosystem, yeah, the wolves were there. And sharks had to run cattle out there. Sharks have a role, they eat things like stingrays, they eat smaller sharks. So they regulate their own population and, you know, I don't want to go to a beach where there's an abundance of stingrays either. Because they also feed on things like oysters, clams, scallops that we like. So there is a balance and there is a reason for it, not just to, there's a reason we need apex predators in any system. But you're right. I mean, the fascination people have with shark week on the Discovery Channel. Now, Nat Geo has shark fast, with their version. Sharkathon. And so there's, they're competing shark fast is the last week of June. Shark Week is Discovery Channel. I will say Discovery Channel was the first to establish that. But there's some really cool episodes coming up. I've seen it. I've done one of the episodes when sharks attacked. And again, my colleague Marcus Trimon and I. Marcus, I'm envious. Marcus. Marcus. Marcus, I'm envious of because he got to do a Nat Geo special with Anthony. Mccate the Falcon in the Marvel movies. Okay. I've seen none of them. So anyway, he's from New Orleans and they were tagging sharks at the Riggles. Okay. For a recent National Geographic. So it is nice that people, people always have a fascination. I mean, obviously a lot of people have a fear of them. But even that fear drives them. So it's a great exposure for, we have numerous young students now that have been inspired for careers in marine and coastal and environmental sciences because they grew up with Shark Week. For us, it was Jacques Cousteau. Yes, it was. For them, it seems to be more Shark Week. I used to ask, I didn't know there was an option to do cool stuff like you because I would watch Jacques Cousteau and ask mom and dad. Like, can I do that? Can I just get a Calypso and go around? You know, they said, no, that's not not possible. I'm like, well, okay. He's doing it. It's not for you, Sean. Looking at, and by the way, too, that the fascination with sharks also gave rise to Sharknado, which is available on Netflix right now, if you've not seen it. Species-wise, what are you talking about, Sam Barber? But let's talk about, give me your top five that we're encountering. We're going to fish 40 bottles of it. Right? Let's go. Let's go out to end. We're fishing 140 feet of water and in. Snapper fishing, bottom fishing. When y'all put those ROVs down, I know you see more than anything else. So, ensure where your speckle trout fishermen will intercept them. They're going to be the small ones, the spinners, the fine tooth, the Atlantic shark nose is probably our most common. These sharks won't get bigger than four feet. Bonnet heads is another one. It kind of looks like a miniature hammerhead. As you get a little further offshore, then you'll start getting the black tips. We'll be a very abundant one. As you go offshore, you'll start seeing tiger sharks, and then you'll see a lot of sandbar sharks. But throughout that, you'll see bull sharks. From your speckle trout fishermen all the way to your stat per fishermen. Bull sharks will be there. Bull sharks are kind of specialized for habitats like Mobile Bay. People have been pushing, you know, and I was where we caught them growing up rarely, but there's more social media and everything. It's the, "Hey, look, I got a bull shark on Gravian Island," you know. Yeah. I mean, that's very popular. I mean, they're way north of there, I would imagine. Yep. As you go even further offshore, that's when you start to get into the dusky, the silkies, the hammerheads. And obviously now, we know occasionally you'll see a great white. But you said this time of year, you were telling us this, I mean, nature's nature does its own thing. But the prevalence or the conditions for a great white are better in the colder parts of the year. Absolutely. They don't like the hot. They don't like the hot, so they'll be in the deeper water or they'll only come up in the colder periods of time. Come about August, September, when it really gets warm. The only sharks you'll see around are bull sharks and black tips for the most part, and they'll even be reduced in abundance. So that's kind of the natural progression, but it's an incredibly rich fauna for species, for sharks, and the Gulf of Mexico. So the Gulf is a major system. It's very important for it, and sharks play a critical role in it. Now, so with that being said, is there a right amount? You know, do they self-regulate? You would like to see the regulations pull back from the feds on some of these species. You know, I didn't even get a chance to say, do they self-regulate? Is there the right number of sharks? You know, okay, this is the goal, this is where it's correct. It's hard for us just because we also don't have scientifically rigorous data that goes back that far. One of our big windows into that is the deep-sea fishing rodeo. We know in the 20s, 30s, and 40s they were landing consistently much bigger sharks, and even we're landing now. You know, it wasn't unusual for them to catch eight, nine hundred pound sharks. So now, and those were mainly tiger sharks that were the big ones. Now we're starting to see that weight of the sharks come back. So that's an indication, but again, we don't have a whole lot of data to go back to and say what a healthy, relatively unexplored ecosystem had as far as sharks go. And I should say that we're still in a situation where more sharks need conservation than don't need it. Sam bars are just an example of one that I believe has rebuilt. We've been doing surveys from the Dolphin Island Sea Lab shark survey since 2005, a survey that Dr. Dryman and I started. So, and that still persists, so at least we have you started the bench for 20 years of sharks. All right, coming back with our Dr. Sean Powers right here on Midday Mobile. This is Midday Mobile with Sean Sullivan on FM Talk 1065. Welcome back FM Talk 1065 and Midday Mobile Wednesday style. Back to our shark talk with Dr. Sean Powers first, Dr. Precious Metals Ron at Mobile Bay Coins in Fine Jewelry. What about it Ron? How you doing sir? Gold and silver doing well. They're up today, not through the roof, but they are up. A lot of large institutions have been making purchases and we've been selling a lot of gold here at the shop today. Okay, so and you look at this, you've talked about this growth in gold and silver as being healthy. Can you remind people what that means? Why is it healthy? It's healthy because it's not going fast. Anything runs up fast usually comes down just as fast. And when things tend to go up slow and at the bottom of pace, they tend to come down the same way. So, that's a healthy. You don't want any investment to shoot up real quick and shoot right back down. I mean, most people are going long term. There are day traders out there, but I would never advocate anybody do that. I'm into the longer term. I mean, for retirement type planning. And that's when that you want to see healthy growth and not fast because fast is scary. Things go up fast usually turn around just as fast. That sounds like a measured conservative approach. I like that. Yeah, it's a good thing. Ron, people want to come out and talk precious metals with you or check out all the selection of jewelry, other gift items. How do they find you? We're located at 2204 Government Street in Midtown Mobile. They can give us a call at the shop, 251725, 1590 or business. They can't talk today. Visit us on the website, mobilebaycoins.com. Hey, thanks, Ron. Thanks, Sean. All right, there goes Ron at Mobile Bay Coins and find jewelry, continue our conversation with Dr. Sean Powers. And yeah, next week, of course, this weekend, you got the kids, the youth's fishing and the Roy Martin Young Anglers tournament. You extremely hard judge on them. No, it was pretty easy. I told the story years ago, I had one of my nephews weigh it. He didn't want to kill the croaker. So we had it in a Ziploc bag. The way stays in the Ziploc bag is like, OK, all right, kid, you're on the board. Exactly. And we'll talk more about rodeo next week, of course. But you have said in the past, too, if what that means, you're talking about the, you just referenced the weights of fish. From the rodeo decades and decades ago. But now the information that comes in every rodeo, not only important, obviously, to USA Marine Sciences, stuff, not in C-Lab, there's people from all over. Come to get the data from here, not just for sharks, for all kind of fish. No, it's always an interesting thing. We probably will have eight different universities and institutions represent it. And balancing all the science needs is getting complicated because so-and-so wants the odorless from this species. Well, this person wants the stomachs. Well, this one wants the swab. And they all are almost competing with each other. So my lab manager, Crystal Hightower, does an awesome job balancing all of those things. And I just intervene, believe it or not, when scientists are fighting over pieces and parts of a different fish. Well, it's good because y'all are excited to see us coming in. Yep. And we do have the shark category, so we have Bull and Tiger being the two sharks that we're looking at. We removed Hammerhead last year because there is some evidence that Hammerhead globally may be on the decline. We think the golf population is probably okay, but just to be cautious, we removed it. We believe that no Bull and Tiger sharks are very healthy. That's not to say we don't have people who, a small group, mainly online and from out of the south, that object to us harvesting those sharks. I mean, I picked a fight on Instagram about that last year with a pretty famous person. And to be honest, all we can do is advise the rodeo on the conservation status. The populations are healthy. So they can be harvested. We're, as scientists, going to take advantage of that opportunity to even gain more. Now, there's a small group that believe that sharks are charismatic enough or to not want to harvest at all. There's a whole silly world of that. We don't have time, but it's the charismatic megafauna thing. The people that we couldn't possibly kill that animal. But you could kill this other animal. One is more, you know. I guess my response is a little different because I am a fishery scientist. My point is to provide guidance and advice and science necessary to sustainably harvest species. And I think you can do that without harming the ecosystem if you get the science and the management right. Now, if you don't want to harvest a certain species because you believe it's charismatic, that's a value-based decision. And that's a political decision. But that's not science. Now, if you can go convince congressmen and senators and your local representatives that they should share your values, that's fine. But that's not a science-based decision. That's not my decision to advise someone on. Got a couple of science questions here before we wrap. Buddy's asking, "How common are Syrah Mackerel in our area?" Not very. We do see them. If you brought into the most unusual category, it probably wouldn't win any given year, but it's not exceptionally common. I don't know that I have my book. I have my book in the office and at home. How different does that zero look than a king or a Spanish? I know. That wouldn't be one I would have had to send a picture to Dr. Rob over. Because people mess up. To me, just I learned early on about lateral lines and stuff, but people mess up kings and Spanish a lot. That's probably one of the most common ID problems. And most anglers really appreciate it. We'll spend some time with them and show them the difference. But the most unusual categories that we talk about, God, we love it when the fishermen bring those in. That makes our day especially if you see us having to take out the ID books and things like that. Especially now that we don't have Dr. Bob to quickly send a picture to, because he was just phenomenal. One of the things that I forget what it was, it was some type of palm fruit, which is a big ocean fish, big black fish for the first part. And Bob said it was so-and-so species of palm fruit. And I was like, "Well, how unusual is that?" He goes, "Well, it's the first one I've ever seen." I was like, "Did you know what it was?" It's the first one. He just was an incredible, what we call, fish systematist. He just could figure out things quickly. So if you bring in the most unusual, be patient, because if we're looking up in the ID books- It's a good sign for them. That's a good thing for you. Okay, I can't wait to see what it's going to be for this year. And this will be fast. Scott says, "How far up do rivers do bull sharks go?" So the record, I think, is St. Louis in the Mississippi River. That's getting up there. Since we have some locks and dams in Alabama, they eventually hit a physical barrier before they hit their physiology barrier. Okay, but they could go further, but we blocked them. Well, they have that damage on Coffeeville Dam. I don't know what ever happened with that if they fixed it. But I'll address that tomorrow. Dr. Powers, I think we'll talk next week about the radio. We're talking rodeo next week coming in. Yeah, and any other holdover sharp questions, we can get those tackled next week. Absolutely. Dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun. Thanks for being here. Paul Fine-Bombs Show on the way next. [Music]