Hi, Peter. Hey, Jen. Today, I wanted to share with you a pearl of wisdom that I was given from my 14 and a half year old daughter, the one and only Kate. Nice. Life lessons from Kate. We've done this a few times and they always end up being these amazing episodes that we're like, God damn it, Kate, with your wisdom. I'm excited. Let's hear more from wisdom from Kate. It feels like a separate podcast. We should create wisdom from Kate. I know this is the long and the short of it. All right, Kate, what do you got for us? OK, so my daughter recently starred as the witch in her middle school's production of Into the Woods. OK, she was so good. I was so proud of her. She sang beautifully. The acting was good. It was just it was awesome. And after the fact, I can't even remember who we were talking to. But the person said, did you go to both shows? Because they were doing two performances. And I was like, absolutely, I went to both shows. I bought my tickets on the day that they were available. Run row, baby. Darn right, I went to both shows and I turned to Kate and I said something like, mom of the year award and she goes bare minimum. And I was like, you know what? She's right. Like they were only doing two performances. They rehearsed all semester. Right, bare minimum is I go see her in the show that she's been rehearsing all semester. I love it. I love it. I love it. It feels like the ultimate humbling moment of parenting where you go. Surely this deserves some accolades. Surely this makes me the parent of the year. Yeah. And they they reflect back to you. Well, I mean, you kind of just did the bare minimum. And it not moment. I was like a touche. But I can't stop thinking about it because it's such a good note. Yeah, it feels good. But I mean, bare minimum feels, I mean, this is I feel like I can just take anything you say and say, I feel called out, but I kind of I kind of feel called out because the thing that this makes me think of, I guess this is based on what's been top of mind for me recently is what's the bare minimum amount of work required for one to maintain a business? Or what's the bare? And I'm saying one, I'm sort of speaking about myself. But what's the bare minimum amount of revenue that you need to live the life you want to live? Or what's the bare minimum amount of clients that you want to have? And I guess I have a hard time defining it because I tell myself a story that I don't want to cap it. You know, I don't want to be like, I'll just do the bare minimum. That's enough. I feel like there's maybe the opposite of bare minimum is like, what's the maximum? What's enough? How do you know when you've done too much or enough, I guess? Yeah, there is definitely a spectrum there. And you know, what's funny is I've been unpacking this in my mind. I'm like, okay, as a parent who supports and shows love to their child, do I ever want to just do the bare minimum? And I'm like, no, I don't want to do the bare minimum. But there are certain things where I'm like, yeah, I just want to do the bare minimum. Like my relationship to email is a really good example. Like I just want to do the bare minimum. Like I'm only answering things that like the world is on fire. You have to answer this email, which is why I have moved all of my clients out of my email inbox and into the studio platform. It's just I'm so much better at communicating with them because I just want to do the bare minimum with email. But like with my creativity and with the work that I'm passionate about, I don't want to just do the bare minimum. I want to do more. I want to do the most. I like this. Yeah. Oh, I like this flip of, I feel like it's looking at the bare minimum as a good thing in some contexts in some contexts. Yes, which it can be. Like, I mean, we've you hear a lot of people talk about minimum viable product when it comes to testing products and services and startups and organizations where you create the minimum viable version of the thing so that you can test it, give it to some users or some audience and say, what do you think of this thing? Gather feedback and make it better. In that case, doing the bare minimum is actually a good thing because it means you don't over invest time, energy and resources into something that's not worth it. Right. And so, yeah, whether it's email or, or I guess the example, even that I use, but looking at it as a positive, which is what's the bare minimum amount of clients that you might need or revenue you might need across a certain period to sustain the life you want to sustain. And does that then once you hit that, does that enable you to take some time off and spend some time with the family or whatever that is? So actually looking at the bare minimum as a positive, which is not necessarily what Kate was saying versus like, when is it a moment to go? No, I definitely don't want to do the bare minimum. Maybe one has to do the bare minimum in certain contexts to be able to enable not doing the bare minimum in other contexts, you know, right? Yes, we can't overachieve in every aspect of our life, sadly. It's funny because Kate's sense of humor. She's just she's got a pretty wicked, sophisticated sense of humor. And I don't think that she was being negative. She was being funny, but she was also just like stating a fact, which is usually what really good humor is, just like such a relatable. Oh, yeah, good point. That's so painfully true. It's funny because it's true. Yeah. But I like the bare minimum call out as like a neutral shorthand. And I have found myself in situations with actors in the past where I've tried to like over explain something. For example, if I'm working on a piece with an actor and then I asked them a question about the piece in its context and their response is, well, I haven't had a chance to read the script yet. I might go into like an elaborate monologue about why I need you to read the script before we have a conversation about the play, but it would be so much easier if I could just say bare minimum. Right. Read the script, read the script, right? Bare minimum. Yeah, I love it. It's such a provocative, but really useful note, right? I know it's like it feels like a truth bomb. Yeah, it really does. And it also feels like useful protection against congratulating yourself or like patting yourself on the back for something that you've done that doesn't actually warrant those kinds of accolades. Like I should not be giving people a gold star for reading their script. Right, right, right. And as someone who is part of the millennial generation, having received a few participation awards myself, I could tell you, I agree with you. They're not that helpful. It's not helpful to know that you participated in something, i.e. you showed up and did the bare minimum. I don't think I don't think rewarding the bare minimum is always a good thing. I think sometimes I'm sure there are moments where it makes sense. But yeah, there's a process or a set of criteria that one needs to not just meet, but exceed in order to be awarded. I mean, in this case, the metaphorical gold star, as you're talking about, I agree. Yeah. And then I also see it as like a way to set a bar for oneself. That might be a little higher than one might have set otherwise. Like, for example, let's say I make an appointment to have a conversation with someone and there are things that I need to say in this conversation. And that's the whole reason I made the appointment and I'm feeling a certain way about it. Instead of saying to myself, like, I really hope I find the guts to say what I need to say, I could say to myself, based on the reason I asked for this meeting, the bare minimum is for me to say what I need to say. Like anything else is perhaps icing on the cake. Right. But the bare minimum reason why I'm there is to say what I need to say. Oh, I feel uncomfortable. I know I do too. I feel uncomfortable saying it. You can't convince yourself, oh, but I had a great conversation with this person and built trust and connection. So it's OK that I didn't say the thing that I needed to say. It's like, well, actually that was the bare minimum. Right. That was the whole reason for the conversation. It was the point of the thing, ouch, ouch. OK, I like this as a tool of definition, maybe, like I want to be able to define in certain contexts, what is the bare minimum? So I think definition of what that is in all contexts is really helpful. And then maybe the follow up question from that is, is that OK? Or is that enough? Because like you said, sometimes you go, yeah, in this case, the bare minimum is all that needs to be done. And then in other contexts, it might be, no, I want to do that. And then some, I have this language that I use in my goal setting spreadsheet, I guess, once upon a time I came up with this little goal setting spreadsheet to track certain business initiatives that I have. Anyway, and I have, I don't call it the bare minimum, but I have like, I call it baseline, which I guess I'm realizing right in this moment is of my version of the bare minimum baseline. I want to be able to achieve this or do this. Then I have this middle band, which I call like a great result. And so that's like my next step up. But then I have this one that I always love because I always end up striving for this one because that's what I do. And it's called a cheeky girl. Yes. And cheeky goal is like, we've talked about audacious goals in the past. So like, can you set a goal for yourself that is a little bit ridiculous, a little bit audacious, a little bit obnoxious, makes you a bit nervous. And I've called those cheeky goals, where it's like, maybe a bit cheeky if I managed to pull that off, like that would require some serious, you know, level up and time investment and energy investment. So I just realized I have this like three-pronged definition that I use in certain contexts, not at all. And so, yeah, maybe cheeky goal is sort of the opposite of a bare minimum or the next layer up from a bare minimum. Ooh, I like that. I like that a lot. Like in your, in that, in that example, okay. So the bare minimum is to say the thing I need to say with this person. That would be like, I have got to say my words, the cheeky goal would first, but then take that, they receive it really well. And then we end up building all this amazing rapport and they're able to have a new opportunity conversation that I never would have expected. Right, right, right, right. That would be cool. I really like that. I like that maybe the opposite of bare minimum is cheeky maximum. Exactly, exactly. Cheeky maximum is such a better way of putting it. Oh my gosh, I love that. Because, you know, you could say the maximum is this, but it's like, what if, you know, we often people set a goal and it's a little bit undercooked because they don't want to feel like an imposter. I don't want to overstate what I could do or want to do. Whereas if you add the word cheeky to it, it's a bit like, oh, that's a bit cheeky. Imagine if I did that. I really love that word. Yes. You know, I do these 30 minute strategy sessions with my clients. And I always open the session with this same exact prompt where I say, please fill in the blank. This session will be a success if. No, and then they say what it is. And what's really interesting is most of the time they fill in the blank with what I would call the bare minimum because they're aware that we only have 30 minutes. And so once we hit the thing that they said would make the meeting a success, everything after that is icing on the cake. Everything after that becomes bonus material. So it's actually really helpful. I never really thought of it as like, what is the bare minimum you want to get out of this meeting? But now that I'm thinking about it, that is pretty much what ends up happening. I say these 30 minutes will be a success if. And they're like, if I can get clear on one action step I want to take after this. I'm like, great, bare minimum then. Totally. I'm now reframing that in my head that that's essentially what we're agreeing on. Yeah, I love that. And it's also, as the, in your case, as the coach running those sessions, it gives you a really clear goal post to aim towards. Absolutely. And probably, I'm sure in your head, knowing you, you're like, oh, we can do that. And then something I can get to my cheeky goal here. It is I'm trying to think of if I have ever in the last couple of weeks, I'm doing a ton of these right now, have I said to anyone after they filled in the blank, there's no way we're going to get to that. No, I was going to say rare to never, but right now I'm going to say never. It has never happened. Yeah. OK. The other application that I've just I'm thinking about on the fly is based on what you just said around communication. So I've been running a number of workshops over the last, I guess, 18 months with a couple of giant organizations and many, many teams within those organizations. One of the focuses of one of the workshops on which there are quite a few is around how do we be more intentional with the way we communicate and unsurprisingly to our longtime listeners that involves asking questions in this workshop, like who's it for and what's it for and what am I trying to communicate and what a success like and what are the stories I might tell to enable me to get there and try to step leaders through this series of intentional questions that enable you to define what it is you're actually trying to communicate. And I'm realizing that I think I want to add a prompt around when you're constructing this piece of communication, which could be a meeting request. It could be an email. It could be a presentation itself. It could be a talk you need to give. It could be a client deck, like whatever it is. I often ask the question of like, what a success look like with this particular thing and can you write that in one sentence? You often talk about the back of a napkin. Can you summarize on the back of a napkin? You know, sometimes people might grapple with that and go, oh, I end up writing seven sentences. It's a really big napkin. And you're like, OK, great. But what about what's the bare minimum? Yeah, you know, if you could define the bare minimum of this piece of communication, what is it actually that you're hoping to achieve? It feels clarifying. It really does. OK, forces clarity. I love it. I'm all about forcing clarity. This is good. This is good. What is the bare minimum? Because certainly in the corporate context, I mean, it's either perhaps they haven't quite thought about it because they don't have time because everyone's sprinting around madly or also they go, oh, it's to do these 12 things. I need to get Jen across the line, but I also need to give some feedback to Peter. And then I'm also hoping that I can enroll those two to have a difficult conversation in the moment about this. But you're like, whoa, you're trying to do a lot, you know, a 30 minute meeting. Like that's right. That is a lot. That's a lot. It might be separate conversations completely. In fact, they probably are. So what's the bare minimum? Love Kate Shanahan. I know. Isn't she the best? Yeah, she is. She is. She is. You know, I spent many years worrying about what the teenage years were going to look like Pete. And let me tell you, they are my favorite years. That's so cool. She's like a really cool person with a lot of interesting things to say. It's the best. I mean, I also just love, I don't know if I feel like this is typical of her sharp witty generation, that instead of saying it as a question or a longer sentence, it's literally just as two words, bare minimum. Yep, bare minimum. You know, like she used the bare minimum amount of words to get the same impact, which I just think is so good. It's so meta. Well, bare minimum. And that is the long and the short of it. [MUSIC] You
