The Minnesota Timberwolves haven't done much in free agency as Kyle Anderson and Monte Morris have walked. Could they be interested in Lauri Markkanen? Get the latest Wolves news on the Minnesota Basketball Party.
Locked On Wolves - Daily Podcast On The Minnesota Timberwolves
Minnesota Basketball Party: Bye, Bye, Kyle Anderson and Monte Morris
It's the Lockdown Podcast Network, your team every day. Welcome to the party. I'm Sam Extram, Q, the crickets sound effect, because that's the Timberwolves in free agency. We'll discuss that and what their moves might be going forward on the Minnesota basketball party. This is Lockdown Sports, Minnesota podcast, it's endless Minnesota Timberwolves talk with the diverse voices of your local experts. It's time for the Minnesota basketball party on the Lockdown podcast network, your team every day. To wolves talk every Wednesday in the Minnesota basketball party, part of lockdown sports, Minnesota part of the lockdown podcast network, your team every day. Thanks a lot for joining us as you do every week. I'm Sam Extram and you'll meet the rest of the crew in just a moment on our opening tip. And today we've got plenty to get into. We're in the heat of NBA free agency, a lot of big moves being made, a lot of big money being thrown around the Timberwolves. They're just chilling, hampered by the second apron and the salary cap. Slowmo Kyle Anderson is gone. Monty Morris is gone. Jordan McLaughlin, we don't know yet, but the free agents are leaving and they are not being signed as of yet by the Timberwolves. We'll talk about what their next moves might be. There is one significant rumor hovering. Lowery Markinen of the jazz connected to the timber wolves. Is it feasible whatsoever? We'll discuss that and whether we fear the Western Conference bolstering some of these teams with the recent signings, all of that on today's Minnesota basketball party, which is brought to you by game time, download the game time app, create an account and use code locked on NBA for $20 off your first purchase terms apply. Let's meet our panel of experts. And it is a full roster today with our opening tip. I bet we can host to the lockdown wolves podcast and today we'll talk a little bit. I'll give a couple names that I like for the wolves to potentially fill out the roster with on vet minimums. I'm Jack Borman, former editor and chief at Canis Hoopis, uh, co-host of the lockdown, uh, wolves postcast with my man, Luke Inman. Uh, I'm not going to talk about our, our guy Sam missing the, the dark gray shirt. Memo, uh, I will instead be talking about why, uh, the wolves may have to reimagine, uh, the, the new role or the role that, that now warriors forward Kyle Anderson, uh, leaves behind. My name is Ron Johnson. I'm the leader of the dark gray shirt crew, um, uh, former gophers, why receiver in a fail, why receiver, gophers, all the famer. I'm home in Detroit where it all started right here on this driveway is where Glenn Mason first slipped and fail. And I knew this was where I, I was like, this, this guy slipped and failed in my driveway and he still came to my house. I got, I got to go to Minnesota. Uh, but I want to talk about why next season. I might be wearing a clay Thompson jersey to some of these games. Oh, I don't know how you follow that up there. I'm Reggie Wilson, sports director at care 11. And, uh, the rooks are getting introduced today with the timber wolves. I'll be there at the press conference and, uh, you know, considering some of these moves, they may just get more run than maybe we think. Or the lack thereof of moves. The wolves have brought in two rookies. Rob Dillingham, turn chain of junior. They've lost two vets, Kyle Anderson and Monte Morris. That so far is basically the exchange made. That's how the roster has changed, um, since the draft and free agency began. Kyle Anderson was probably the most coveted item, I would say, of the internal options for the wolves. He takes nine million per year, over three years to join the warriors. Uh, timber wolves really couldn't afford that. It makes sense why he would leave. So Kyle Anderson is gone. Monte Morris who didn't seem to be a great fit after being traded for mid-season. He is gone to Phoenix. And this one stings a little bit. The report is that he took the minimum to play in Phoenix instead of coming back to Minnesota. Maybe he didn't want to play behind Rob Dillingham, but then beacon. Uh, what is the disappointment level? What should the fans think about the departures of slo-mo and Monte Morris? Yeah, unfortunately, the slo-mo one, the writing was kind on the wall. And I know we talked about on this show a few weeks ago, the possibility of him coming back and would the wolves, you know, pay some penalties to bring him back, you know, go further above that second apron because you can do that to resign your own free agents. And we thought maybe there was a chance there was a reporter earlier this week. I forget where that the wolves and Kyle Anderson are a little bit far apart. I'm sure the wolves were hoping he would be willing to come back for probably roughly half of what he's getting paid with Golden State. But instead he gets a deal that's right in line with what he was making the last two years with the wolves. So good for Kyle Anderson to get to get, you know, that dollar figure. And it's not a surprise that somebody else is willing to pay him that. So I always was kind of dubious that he'd be back. The Monte Morris, what I think the way you put it, it stings. I think that's, that's, that's correct. I think that's the right word to use. Um, it always would have been a luxury to bring him back as I shouldn't say always as soon as they traded for Rob Dylan, him on draft night, it would have been a luxury to have somebody in Monte Morris's caliber because Morris is a backup point guard, one of the best backup point guards in this league. He's not a third point guard. And I'm sure the wolves gave him a pitch like, Hey, if you're going to sign for the minimum look, we'll need you early this year before doing him's ready. We might need you in the playoffs if Dylan, him's not ready to play in the playoffs. But there's a lot of time in between there where he's probably looking at this going, how many minutes would I actually get here? They didn't play me. They occasionally played Jordan McLaughlin over me at the end of last season. Like, are they really going to? And of course he was still coming back from the injury, the quad injury. He suffered in Detroit last fall. So he was never a hundred percent with Minnesota. Um, but like I get it from Monte Morris's perspective. Now he gets a role for a team that needed a point guard. He's going to get more minutes on a regular basis than he get in Minnesota. It's just tough because I assumed he'd get more than the minimum somewhere. And who knows? Maybe somebody, maybe a non contender offered him more than the minimum, but he did that the last couple of years in Washington and Detroit and obviously wanted to get back on a good team. It also hurts that it's a West contender that the wolves are going to be facing, you know, the next couple of years fighting for a jockeying for a position in the West. So the Morris one stings a little more for me just because the wolves could have afforded that Kyle Anderson, like they need to feel that role. We need to rethink that as Jack alluded to in the open, um, what that looks like next year, but it's not a shock that, that Kyle Anderson ended up somewhere else. And Jack, why don't you tell us pay off the T's? How will the wolves or how should they re-imagine the slo-mo role? Yeah, I think when you, when you think about Kyle Anderson, the two things that immediately come to mind are his defensive versatility and his play making. And when you look at the other guys that are on the roster, namely Josh might not and Leonard Miller is the two guys that would project to, to fill most of those minutes internally. Um, you know, you're really going to only be able to choose two of the four between those two things and then shooting and athleticism. So the thing there is, you know, you could replace what slo-mo did internally. Um, but, but you're not going to have much of the shooting and you're not going to have much of the play making at all. And, and the problem is that, you know, while you'd think that Josh might not and Leonard Miller would project to be really, you know, versatile defenders with how athletic they are, um, their, their defensive awareness, uh, just, just isn't, I think, where the wolves would hope that it would be at, at this stage of the game. And so, you know, maybe you hope that those two guys can replace, uh, or, or I guess add more offensive talent to the wolves rotation, uh, from slo-mo's role. And then maybe you go after more of a defensive replacement as a, as a three or four in free agency that, that you could kind of plug in, um, in lineups that need a little bit more defense in, in that capacity. So I think it's just going to come down to what the, what the timber wolves front office wants to, uh, I guess value more between, you know, the defensive versatility, the play making, shooting, athleticism. So, um, and that's the same goes for, for guys that are on the free agent market, uh, guys that would project to be, uh, minimum deals. And we'll, and we'll kind of get in a little bit later to, to who some of those guys may be, but, uh, it's just going to be, uh, you know, kind of a pivot move here for, from the wolves in terms of reimagining what that role might look like and, uh, yeah. And I think Ben kind of synthesized all my thoughts on, on Monte Morris. I just think that when Jordan McLaughlin was playing over him, uh, you know, for significant stretches after he got here, I think that he probably didn't take too kindly to that, even though he was coming off an injury. And, you know, I, you know, kind of what makes me wonder, like, if he was going to go to Phoenix in the first place, like, why didn't they just include him in that Bradley Beal trade, um, that they made, uh, since they needed a point guard, but, you know, we'll, we'll see what happens. Yeah. Um, and by him not returning could mean that Jordan McLaughlin's more likely to return, but Ron, you probably won't miss slow mo as much as I will. I feel like we were in different, different, uh, spectrums there. So I'll say that slow mo grew on me as the, um, playoffs, you know, when you think about Joker and some of the roles he did there, some of the defensive stops he had there, he definitely grew on me. I'll give him that. But if you look at what they got rid of or what they lost, put him on a scale. Slow mo Monte Morris, Terrence Shannon, Jr, Rob Dillingham, the tells the scale is going to lean early towards the vets. And then it's going to come back to the rookies. I think long term, these two guys are going to do more for this team. Then what those two guys departing did, um, I think you're, you're spot on. Monte Morris, when he came from the Pistons, everybody said, man, there's a really good backup point guard. I looked at some of the Detroit stuff. Uh, I talked to some people who are in Detroit. Javen Hunter, who's been on our show, one of my former teammates. His son is Jay Naivey who played for the Pistons. So I asked him about him and he is a solid point guard. He's a guy that can make plays when you need them. But the biggest difference in the things that really got me are you need to be a score in that offense when, when Mike Kylie's not in the game. And I think that's what Rob Dillingham is going to bring to this team as a backup. So I truly believe somebody's house is on fire clearly. Um, I truly believe that when they make sure they move forward, they have the younger guys. Now, slow mo say, I'm like I said, I liked him. He just took forever to get his shot off and it doesn't always work. You pass it to him. He passes it back to you. I felt like one of those episodes of Fresh Prince just shoot the ball. And I think that's what Terry, Terry Shannon Jr is going to give. He's going to be a guy when he gets the ball. If you say shoot, he's going to shoot it. No questions. So I, I, I, my, my first reaction was, man, it'd have been nice to keep Kylie Anderson from that veteran defensive side. I think Rob Dillingham over Monte Morris is fine. Um, but I think Kylie or, uh, Terry Shannon Jr can learn to play that role. Reg. Yeah. So I think it's an interesting because. I feel like slow mo was such a polarizing player in, in Minnesota, like fans, like couldn't stand them for stretches and he had some bad play for, for a bit. Um, but then, you know, he showed up in the playoffs and really showed his medal for, um, for those you run. Okay. Yeah. Uh, he really showed his metal in the playoffs, especially in that Denver series. Um, kind of defending, uh, Nicola Yolkich, uh, for stretches there. And, and we really saw why he's so valuable to Chris Finch. And we know how much Finch, you love them, you know, Finch, you talk about, oh, yeah, we can get Kyle in there a little bit more, um, when Rudy missed, uh, the game for the birth of his son, he was like, yeah, we can, we can get, uh, Kyle in there a little bit more for his, his playmaking ability out there on the floor. And, and it helped quite a bit. It looked, he got, he got good money going to go and state. I know he didn't necessarily want to leave because of some of the resources here for his son. Um, but, you know, now he's paying those California taxes. And, uh, you know, good luck with that. Uh, there's going to be a little bit different out there, but, but, you know, I think he's going to be a versatile player that Steve Kirk can use, especially in those small ball lineups that, you know, helps them. Um, what you hope is that, you know, at least from a scoring standpoint, Shannon is, is an upgrade for the wolves. But when you talk about, you know, Rob Dylan, him with Monte Moore, it's like, I feel like the upside, the ceiling is a lot higher there, um, moving forward. And, you know, it is tough that, that Monte basically was just like, yeah, I, I just don't want to be back here in Minnesota. They told me that winter was coming. So yeah, I'm out, I'm out. And I think that, that's kind of tough. He's going to the desert where it's just hot all the time. So, um, especially after what he saw the wolves do to the, the sons and the playoffs, he decided that was what he wanted to do, but, you know, that's neither here nor there. Um, I just wonder what the wolves do as far as like depth goes because they don't have a whole lot of money to play with. But, um, I guess we'll get into that a little bit. Yeah. Yeah. Let's get into it. Now, Reggie, I am personally trying to poach your Lakers roster because you just gave LeBron all the money, not much left. So I'm looking at Spencer Dinwitti as a ball handler. And I'm looking at Torian Prince as someone who could maybe play that slow more role as possible signings here in free agency. Uh, we'll go to Jack, any suggestions. Do you like my ideas with Torian and or Spencer? I, I really don't like the Spencer Dinwitti idea, but I do love the Torian Prince idea. I, I think at this point, like if you're just going for like maximum vibes and like replace one really respected veteran leader and Kyle Anderson with another one in Torian Prince, who's familiar with what just about everybody in this roster, um, can provide some of that defensive versatility that Kyle Anderson brings, maybe not to the same degree, but, you know, as another big body at six, seven, six, eight, 225 pounds. Um, you can at least roll out there. I really liked that idea. Um, you know, I also really like Joe Ingles as a guy that could, you know, play with both where to go bare and Mike Conley shoots pretty well from three as a catch and shoot guy and plays well and pick and roll. Um, doesn't bring the defense or the athleticism on Sadiq Bay is another one. The wolves were interested in acquiring him at the 2023 deadline, kind of a similar play style and body type to Torian Prince has, has a little bit more growth to him, um, but isn't quite as tall as, as Torian Prince. So, um, but, but again, same kind of type of player. But I mean, before we talk, before we get into this, I mean, the wolves at the reopen roster spots after Dilly and TSJ will, will sign the rookie deals. They're, they're taxed before they do anything else. Their tax bill is going to be $87 million. Give or take, uh, in addition to the $201 million in salary that they have on the books, so 288.5 million, they signed two more veteran minimum guys, which seems likely at this point, they only count $2.3 million against the cap this year, but it's an extra $13 million, uh, to sign each player when you think about how deep in the luxury tax rules are. So they're going to have a tax bill that's about $109 million for an all in price of $315 million. So Tim Connolly, not only does he kind of have the, the ownership group right where he wants him in terms of his own personal contract with, with kicking that, uh, option down the, down the line of year, um, you know, he's also kind of got them over the barrel in, in terms of the roster and that it would be a horrible look for either of them to not pony up and pay for, uh, for a team that's a true championship contender. So it's going to be really interesting to see, uh, I guess once the roster does kind of settle, we know who's going to be on the team and we look at some of those financials, just like how much of a shock that's going to be to people. Cause it's, it's going to be, it's going to be a pretty real. So what you're saying is if they had tried to sign slow mo to anything competitive with the warriors, that would have ballooned into what 20, 30 million in tax money. Yeah. I think Yossi Goslan, it was all over this. I think it was about, it was a great follow for, for cap and CBA stuff on Twitter. Um, I, I believe it would have costed the wolves about 30 million dollars in luxury tax and, um, and just general salary numbers. So, um, yeah, you know, it's just a tough, uh, you know, you would have been looking at a tax field, probably like a hundred and 25, 130 million in that case before you talk about the $210 million salary that that brings. So it's, that'd be, be a tough sell. That's, that's insanity. Um, Ron, what, uh, what moves, what moves you making to, to round out this roster? So I don't know if you guys have watched Dr who on, um, Disney plus it's, it's not as good as I thought it was going to be, but you know, it's one of those shows like what you started, you're like, screw it. I got to get through this now. And dude has a time machine. I would jump into time machine to go tell clay tops and don't go to Dallas. Like come to Minnesota. That's, that's what I would do first, but I don't have a British black friend. Um, that has a time machine. So, um, when you look at some of the guys out there, so Joe Ingalls, we know he played with Mike Conley and Rudy go bare before in Utah. He is going to be 37 years old, but he can shoot the rock. Now he's old, but he can still move faster than Shlomo. And I'm speaking strictly replacing Shlomo. That's one option. I do like the Tory and Prince, but I, I kind of lean with Jack. That's more of a vibes like Ben here. You know what you're going to get out of him. Um, Jay Crowder, if you're looking for somebody that's willing to fight and be a bully and help your guys out and get rebounds, you got him and Marcus Morris that are out there, um, I would, that's it. I would, I'm not going to throw too many names out there. I would, I would, I'm going for a bully ball. If I can't get one of those guys, because again, when you look at Joker, a guy like Jay Crowder and Marcus Morris are willing to punch him, we know that. Um, and so you have, I mean, I'm not physically saying punching people. I'm not for violence. Um, but I'm saying you do have to like give them a shot in the ribs. You do have to agitate them a little bit to where he gets out of his game. So I'll just do, but I do like Joe Ingalls. He is 37 though, so that or will be 37. So that's the only issue with that. But I mean, LeBron is 50 and he's still playing. So, I mean, he's a willing passer. He's a guy that's going to get the ball to your wings that can shoot the ball. So that could be an option as well to replace slow mo. And again, at 37, if you're in a slow mo race, he's going to be them. So I, I think we'd be fine there. Can't be too picky with age when you're in the temporal position. And I like, you know, the Marcus Morris thing. They were linked to him last year, uh, as a buyout guy. So maybe there's, uh, some interest still with Marcus. Where is this twin at? Is Marquis in the lead? Or Keith, I don't know. I haven't heard Marquis for a while. And you want to leave this wasn't, wasn't he on the sons? Marquis Morris looks like he's still active. Oh, Dallas recently with Dallas. OK, I was going to say, because if you get Marcus Morris, maybe Marquis just shows up and hangs out and then, you know, maybe throw him a bone, make him the 12th man. I don't know. They, yeah, it could be like, uh, like that movie, The Prestige, where the, the two, the two brothers are like the one person so they could like alternate. They could give each other's, you know, load management. Uh, Ryan is in the masses. I mean, it could be like that. There, there you go. Reggie, what do you got? So I'm still kind of sticking with what I said last week, especially, you know, when you think about replacing slow mo defensively, definitely not going to give you the same thing, but I'm still, I'm still behind, uh, making a run at Gordon Hayward. I think he could, you know, provide a little bit of a scoring punch and, and just kind of fill out the roster. Now his wife might be mad because he may not play much still. Uh, and I know that was the, that was the problem when he was in. OK, see, like, amen, like I could still get some meaningful minutes here, but, you know, he just didn't crack that rotation. But I think he could be a guy that eventually could rely on to, you know, come off the bench, get you nine, 10 minutes at least. And, and, you know, just kind of get out there and, and get a, get a few buckets and kind of stabilize some things offensively. But, uh, I'm not mad at the Torian Prince idea either. I don't know what Hayward is going to command. That would be a significant salary drop if he goes from 30 million per year to something close to what the wolves could afford. He's got to wake up, he's got to wake up. That's, that's what Russ did, you know, Russ, Russ was making all that money. And now, you know, he's, he's clipped his, his salary considerably. Now, uh, they need, they need Gordon, Hayward to clip it even more than Russ did. But yeah, was that an advertisement for clipped on Hulu? No, but we did just start that the other day and that is a ride. Is it good? I've heard it's bad. I don't know. I don't know if it's good, but we watched the first episode. I don't know. All right. Okay. Good report back next week with your detailed analysis. Also, I want to give Reggie golf claps because he called the Terrence Shannon pick last week. We haven't acknowledged that yet. Good job, Reggie. You can hold on to the show Luke, Luke and men did too. I asked him. I said one name you want and he texted me that morning. He said, Terrence Shannon, I'm happy. My boy, Luke, look at you guys or spend me. Shout out. A superior sports talk, RRP, rest in peace, Ben Beacon. I know you got names. Give us some names. Yeah. So a lot of a lot of them have already been named on my list. So I had kind of a tier of realistic guys who I think they could get for the minimum. Torian Prince is on that tier. I also have Jay Crowder. Those are two of my two of my maybe top four guys that I'd want. Certainly Crowder. I like I like the shooting the size, maybe a little bit less in terms of of initiating offense for others than Torian Prince could do, but more than some of the other guys I have on my list. I have Hayward on there too is kind of like a second tier option. He's more of the scoring higher usage type guy. Other players that aren't necessarily a slow-mo role, but could slot in if they're and it's tricky because you obviously still have to kill Exeter Walker and you have Terrence Shannon, but if you're not playing up playing Terrence Shannon right away, they could use more shooting. So there's other guys out there. I like Reggie Bullock. I like as an option. I think I mentioned him last week as somebody who I think is like a legit three and D guy is still not the exact same role, but I like him kind of in that same realm. Justin Holiday, maybe not quite as much. He's more of a fringe rotation guy. And then if you're going bargain bin, like end of the roster, another old friend like Torian Prince, that young, he's not going to give you he's probably your 11th guy, but like he is like a reasonable facsimile of what Kyle Anderson did offensively. Like he's not going to shoot at all. I think he's probably not as good defensively at this stage in his in his career with how old he is, but he at least can still pass them all a little bit, give you some size. So that would be kind of an end of the roster. And then if they, if, if like they get lucky and some stuff falls through the cracks, guys that I think will probably get more than the minimum, but you never know how things shake out. And if guys just want to contend, like I've got Alec Burks on my list. He's more of obviously a guard. Um, I've got Chetty Osman's almost certainly going to get something like the mid level, but like he'd be a perfect fit if somehow they ended up with him at some point. Um, and I mentioned Hayward already too. So yeah, Crowder, Prince and Bullock are probably my favorites, um, out of that list. And then the next year is probably Justin Holiday and, you know, Gordon Hayward and in some order. I'm going to try to use the phrase reasonable facsimile at some point today. That was, uh, that was well done. Ben Beacon. I try to use that once a week on the show. You got to hit your quota. Um, when Ben Beacon said Jay Crowder and I had him, I feel honored because, you know, then knows everything. Ben's plugged in, no, I feel honored. I feel honored. Ben felt vindicated by, by you saying it first run the, uh, the pursuit of Lowery bird. The world would be in on it. Talk about that next on the Minnesota basketball party. Brought to you today by game time and authorized ticket marketplace of major league baseball, which makes getting tickets faster and easier prices on the game time app go down the closer you get to first pitch. So if you want to go to twins tigers tonight and get in the door for like 20, 25 bucks, that might even sink the closer it gets to first pitch this evening. They've got killer last minute deals at all times, all in prices, no hidden fees, views from your seats. Game time just takes the guesswork out of buying tickets. 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Ever you get your podcast and beacon producing quality wolves content five days a week, Lowry Markinin of the Utah jazz has been linked to the Minnesota Timberwolves. There is interest from Minnesota. Apparently, Tim Connolly loves the guy. Here's the contract situation. Lowry Markinin is making like 17, 18 million dollars and he's a free agent after this coming season. So you'd be getting one year of Lowry Markinin. Lowry Markinin over the last two years has averaged 24 and a half points per game with the jazz most improved player of the year in 22, 23. And last year he was almost a 50, 40, 90 guy. He shot 48% from the field, 40% from three, 90% free throw percentage. He's only 27 years old. So Ron Johnson is that a guy that you would want to shake things up and trade for just to get one year of him to add to this team. What do you think? So after looking at his stats the last two years, I'm glad you bought that up. I would say yes, but I wouldn't do it if I have to give up a lot. Like if I have to give up players that I think are my core. So Anthony Edwards, Kat, Rudy, Mike Connolly, any of my rookies, Rob Dillyham, or Terrence Shannon Jr. I'm not doing it and Nas Reed, like those eight. I'm not letting go. So I about Jaden, what about Jaden? Because that's the guy I think you would do it for. I know. And that's the tough one for me. Like I love Jaden McDaniel was like, I love like his scrappiness, like some of the stuff that happened in games. I think he was part of like the steel and dunk fight that broke out like I don't know, like that's tough. But I would say for a seven foot power forward, who can shoot? I mean, he's almost 40% from three. He's increased the last two seasons. His field goal percentage is almost 50%. He's like, again, he's a seven footer that can play the power forward that can come in and win cat files for people for no reason. I like it. Like I do like it. Like I would for one year, I probably would for Jaden McDaniel's. I would because Nas Reed, I think you can't really let Nas Rego because Nas could even move down to the three sometimes when you look at the way he plays on the floor, but Jaden McDaniel's for sure is a three. I don't know, man. I'm I'm losing. I might lose sleep over that one because I do like Lori marketing. Like when he was at Arizona, I loved his game. I like when he's with the Bulls, like he just he's a kid that he's willing to do the like at the top of the. He reminds me of like a Porzingis, but it's not scared. I don't know. Porzingis sometimes seems scared to me now. But he reminds me of like what we thought Porzingis should have been long term. And so yeah, I do like that partnership with with Kat, him on the wings. I honestly, now, if you say you get rid of Rudy go bare for him, I would probably say yes. If I would get back to Utah, I would I would give give me Lori marketing. You take Rudy and then let's go with Nas Reed, J. McDaniel's cat and Lori marketing. I don't know. I would like that with more and I'm selfish. I'm an offensive guy. Um, the defensive stuff doesn't turn me on. Uh, I love offensive scores. So it got to think about it from Utah's perspective too. Cause if Utah is, is saying, oh, we're not going to build around this guy, which is a little curious to me, but okay. If they're not going to build around him, then they want either picks or future assets. So you like the salary makes sense with Nas, but also you're getting probably one year of Nas, cause he's going to get a hit free agency potentially after this year. So you'd have to look at Jaden. Um, Jaden, you get five years of, um, and for the wolves, if you exchange Jaden for Lowry, you do have some tax relief in future seasons, right? Cause Jack told us the numbers, $100 million into the tax. If you only have one year of Lowry and then you give up those extra 40 years of Jaden, you do give yourself a little financial relief in the future. That's one way to look at it. Not saying I endorse it. Reggie, what do you got? It's just really hard for me to see how this works. Like it's, it's really hard for me to see how it works. Especially with Connolly saying what he said last week at the, uh, at his press or after the draft, like, yeah, like we want to keep this core intact. Okay. Well, if you do that, then obviously they, they can't trade anybody meaningful. They're not enough picks to do that. And how does it even work financially? But then when you think about, okay, maybe do you give up cat? Do you give up Jaden? Do you give up knives? Do you? I don't know. And then I don't know what Utah is doing, what these, what, what Danny Angels are looking for. Like how many times can you trade valuable players for picks before you just decide to just put your foot in the ground and just try to go win basketball games. Like I'm, I'm not really understanding the, the logic out in Utah. You know, maybe, maybe we could get Danny Angel and to join us on the basketball party one day to kind of break it down. I don't know what you'd facilitate that maybe. Absolutely. Reggie has completely forgotten about the, how the Celtics just won the title already. Look, look, loved me some Jason Tatum, big St. Louis all day, but I just, I mean, but Danny Angel was gone, you know, like he did all that and left it to Brad. He's gone. So I don't understand what, I mean, marketing would be a, a great addition, but I just don't, at what cost are we looking at? And I don't know that is necessarily worth it. What I do think it's crazy though is just, maybe it's just by virtue of just the jazz, not really having much of anything else, but, you know, marketing crazy jump the last two seasons in his scoring production because it seemed like, you know, he peaked his second year with the Bulls and it was like, Oh shoot, like they got somebody who could be like a cornerstone type player. And then he started averaging in the teams the next few years and he goes to Cleveland, things like 14 close to 15 points a game. And then boom, 24, 25 points a game moving forward. And it's just like, whoa, like that's some crazy production. But, you know, who else do the jazz throw out there to play? So he's, you know, he's getting his. Um, and so I'm interested to see how, how any of that plays out. But I think the jazz will be smart to keep him. I don't know. It just doesn't make any sense to me. Yeah, I'm with, I'm with you, Reggie, you're 27. You're playing this well. Why are you not considered part of the, you know, the foundational future in Utah? But that's not for me to decide. Uh, it's for Ben Beacon to tell us what, what happens. Ben Beacon, what do they do? We lost. So my take on this is, and I'm curious to hear what Jack has to say about it as well. I, my take is that the only way this makes any sense is if there's a directive from ownership that you have, like, you can't keep paying the tax. We can't pay the repeater tax, right? We have to get under the second apron at the very least. And the, this is another opportunity for me to use the reasonable facsimile phrase, if you will, uh, if, if I'm allowed to do so. But like what Lori marketing would provide offensively in place of Carl that he towns would be that, right? He's not, he's not as good as cat offensively. He's not as good of a three point shooter. He's not as good of a rebounder. He's also not as good as a, of a defender. But what he would give you is essentially a little bit of a lower usage version of what cat gives you offensively. So it frees up more positions for it than he Edwards for a Rob Dilling him. So the only way this makes any sense is if the wolves ownership said, Hey, you have to move off of cat and the, and upcoming years, and it would be a rental because if you resign marketing, then you're in the same boat, but probably more expensive than you are with cat. So if you trade for him and then resign him, I don't know that he, I don't, he's not as good as cat in my opinion. So the only way this makes sense is if they say, Hey, look, we got to get into the second apron, you're going to have to move cat. And then the only way the wolves could do it is if they had another team or two involved and to help with assets because the wolves have like one pick swap available to them to trade and maybe a second rounder or a couple of second rounders, I guess. So, um, I don't think they do it. I think it's like a less than 5% chance easily, but if he really likes marketing and say Glenn Taylor wins the ownership thing and he says, look, despite what I said publicly, you got to get under the second apron. Then this could be what's in Tim Connolly's back pocket and he could find some pics from some other teams. I saw a fake trade out there, somebody throughout Atlanta and a three team deal and the wolves would get the Andre Hunter from Atlanta and like this whole thing. So like if you're going to have to move cat, which they don't currently, but if they're told, if Connolly's told you have to do this, this would be the best, the best possible way to do it to get a borderline. I'll start back who can give you a lot of what cat gives you offensively. Not all of it, but some of it. Um, and then you let him go next offseason. You get some cap relief. You, it's, it's less of a tax bill this year. He comes off the books and now ultimately you've lost cat for whatever else is included in the trade, but I mean, like if, if push comes to shove, it's a tough sell to the fan base. Certainly, but that's the only way this makes sense to me. I wouldn't trade Jaden. I wouldn't, I mean, Utah doesn't want Rudy. Like I don't think there's any other way this, this happens. Uh, but that, that's my take on it. So really unlikely, but I think it's a back pocket, like break glass in case of emergency type of a, a potential for Connolly. Jack. Yeah. I'm with Ben. Let's get, if you'll allow me, I'm, I'm going to get weird here, Sam. Um, so I'm working on first, first of all, like, I, I don't think that this would be, uh, a demar de rose and for Kawhi situation where like you're trading a beloved franchise cornerstone that's been there his entire career for a one year, like F it, let's go for it and hope that two of the opponents, three best players in the playoffs tear their Achilles or tear their ACL and we can win championship that way. Uh, I don't think that's what, what this would be. I think, you know, you don't trade for him unless you have assurances that he'll resign kind of like what the Pacers did was the outcome this year. So you could resign him for roughly four years, $200 million when he becomes extension eligible in August. Um, so, so that's that. I don't think it would be a one year rental, but if you want to talk about what a, what a, like an actual trade could look like, something that makes the most sense to me would be something where Lowry marketing comes to Minnesota. Brendan Ingram goes to Sacramento and Carl Anthony towns goes to New Orleans with, uh, you know, stuff and probably three or four first round picks from, uh, the Pelicans and the Kings going to, going to Utah. The wolves could then theoretically take back another player that makes anywhere from 12 to $15 million. It could even take back Kevin Herr who makes under just under $17 million and still find a way to get under the second apron of the, of the luxury tax. So you could do that. So it would, that cool. You're under the, you're under the second apron this year. Cause I think the biggest thing is, is not necessarily avoiding the second apron, but it's just, you can't be in the second apron two times in a four year span. So if you're over it this year, like you've got to figure out a way to get under it, uh, at some point moving forward. So what would come after that? So you'd re-sign marketing to a, to a long-term deal. Let's say it starts with $45 million next season. So so 25, 26, you could trade whoever you'd get with marketing. So if it's a DeAndre Hunter, Kevin Herder, or whoever, you could trade him with picks to a team that has space, kind of like what Dallas did with, uh, Tim Hardaway Jr. this year. Um, so you'd get rid of that money. And then you could extend Rudy Go Bear to discount. So something that I don't think a lot of people are talking about right now is the fact that Rudy Go Bear is extension eligible this summer. You could have him toss out his, his player option for next, or for next season, which is about $46 million and say, Hey, if you get rid of the player option for next season, we'll extend you for, let's say three years, $80 million, or something like that. It's roughly $25 million a year from there. You'd position yourself to have $40 million roughly in space beneath the second apron to do three things, to reset Nas Reed in free agency and give him, uh, you know, a pay bump of, of roughly double what he would make. So up to 25, $26 million. And then you'd have to fill three more roster spots after that with, with roughly anywhere from 10 to, to $15 million underneath the, the second apron, which you theoretically could do if it was, you know, a second round pick, if it was a guy had zero or one year of experience, you signed into a minimum deal, kind of like what the wolves did with, um, with Luca Garza. So something like that. And so I think if, if you're going to go for, for Lowry marketing, and that's like a, Hey, let, let's trade cat now or he's coming off a great playoff run. We need to trade him to a team like New Orleans that has no centers on their roster right now, um, and find a way to kind of make something like that work. Um, and so I agree completely with Ben. And the only reason you do it is for, for, for tax saving purposes, um, maybe to, you know, to be able to duck the second apron this year and then, you know, allow yourself to potentially duck it next year and find a way to, to have a little bit more of a sustainable roster. But, but I agree too, with, with Ben and that like, I think Carla at the towns is a, is a better player at doing just about everything than, than Lowry marketing is. Uh, he's, he's a little bit better at just about everything except maybe not turning the ball over. Um, so it would certainly be tough to lose. And I think that there could be a tough sell for sure, considering how well Carl played in the first and second rounds. I think it's like there's no way they, they, they beat the nuggets of that Carl into new towns and everything he did in that series. So, um, yeah, it's definitely more of just like, if you want to get weird, let's try it, but I get, I'm completely aligned with everybody in that. I would be really surprised if, if they decided to shake this up before, you know, giving it a, another run at it with, you know, even more fire, firepower and Rob Dillingham and Terence Shannon Jr. It's true. So go behavior from Jack. That was unbelievably complex and compelling. I, I would like to be realistic, I think. I think I've played it to be like, I'm five. No, we don't. Kings get a guy in the wing, pelicans get a center, wolves saves money. Utah continues to get young guys. So like the episode is like the movie, a weird science, you know, I got to start watching movies, I guess, you know, Jackson's in there taking magazines, hooking up electrodes to it and saying, come alive. Hey, hey, we're here for it. Ron is the movie reference king, Jack. I don't know if you've noticed that. Um, when do we return? Who's the beast of the West that's going to threaten the wolves next season? The most, we'll talk about that when we return on the Minnesota basketball party after this very quick pause. You know, we love talking stats here at lockdown. And here's one that's super simple to remember. Discover automatically doubles the cashback you've earned on your credit card at the end of your first year with cashback match. That means with Discover, you could turn 150 bucks cashback to $300. That's right. You could put it towards some memorabilia. You've had your eye on or treat yourself to a premium sports network. You earn and discover doubles. See terms at discover.com/creditcard. Hey, every day is NBA free agency is here and coverage doesn't stop with your team. Locked on NBA will be here for you every day of the off season with quick hitting 30 minute recaps of all the news and rumors in the NBA. Make locked on NBA your second listen and stay caught up on the biggest off season storylines and free agency signings every day. Available on YouTube or wherever you get your podcast part of the locked on podcast network, your team every day. All right, Minnesota basketball party. Please subscribe locked on Sports, Minnesota in our closing minutes. The West has has really beefed up. Ron and I talked about this yesterday on the Ron Johnson show. Which team do you think has improved the most and will buy for the Western Conference crown? And you've got several options here. I don't want to steal any from anyone. Why don't we go to Ron? You got scrambled. Now you're on the left of Reggie. Let's go to Reggie first. OK, I'm sorry, but all due respect to Jack Boyman and Ben Beacon. I I go I go Oklahoma City. I don't I don't know what to think about the Hardenstein Hardenstein. I don't even know how to how you say his name really, but that was a that was a move also for Chet to call him his bright skin twin. I think he was joking around when he said that, but I hope he was because I don't know what that was, but I look at that and it's funny because like I've known the nuggets lost KCP, but like it's still the nuggets and they still have a yokech and Murray and that pick and roll is still picking rolling. So I still think that they are going to be a threat as well. But I would love to say my Lakers. I would love to think the the Warriors, but also to like that was adding adding Clay Thompson. Yeah, they probably lose a step or two or three on the defensive end, especially losing Derek Jones Jr as well. But, you know, all that shooting and Clay possibly, I know he was clanking a lot last year, but Clay possibly getting open threes like just catching shoot like he's back in Golden State, you know, several years ago. I think that's just going to be just tough to contend with. But Kyrie is a year older, Clay is the older guy, you know, does Luca come in shape and motivated to actually play that remains to be seen as well? Ron, let's, uh, I'm trying to remember who you went with yesterday on the Ron Johnson Show, which team kind of scares you the most? Uh, the maps, that's why I'm getting to clay tops in Jersey. Like the only reason is because you saw what the maps did without clay to the timber walls, you add clay, you add another shooter, you saw what the maps struggle with the Celtics, an additional shooter. Clay does not need to dribble the ball. He does not need to do anything. He can run around the floor like he did with Steph because he has a guy in Kyrie that wants to handle the ball 90% of the time. He has a guy in Luca that wants to create a shot 95% of the time. And when they double Luca driving, what does Luca do? No looks. He's like, he's like, he's, he's, he's magic Johnson's life scan twin without the HIV, but he is his twin and he's able to show the ball, look away. He's able to pass it without looking. He's able to throw it behind him. That guy being able to find clay and if they can get on the same page, that's the key though. Clay and Steph and Dre Mine created a friendship through winning, but you saw what they were like when they were losing. Dre Mine was trying to be on the set of TNT. Steph and Clay weren't talking to each other. Steph out here having more babies because he stressed out. He's out here having stressed out babies. And so when you think about that, if they can get on the same page and stay friends and stay connected and Kyrie doesn't go with the sage and he's burning sage on stadiums now and he's Erica by doing it when he shows up. They'll be fine. And I think that's the key is Kyrie, Luca and Clay. They can remain friends and remain cool. They are the biggest threat in the West in my opinion. There was so much to unpack there, but we do not have the time. Let's go to Ben. All right, so I think OKC probably is is the one that like at least based on where I would almost say it's because I mean, obviously they were the number one seed last year, but but it could have easily been Minnesota. It could have easily been Denver. And I think OKC got better because the bench is that much better. They brought back everybody that that was really important to the rotation. And they added a, I mean, one of the better perimeter defenders in the league in in Caruso and obviously Hartenstein makes a big difference too. A really good defensive big, a really good rebounder. Exactly what they needed. A low usage catch and shoot offensive guy that can give you more if you need to. The only question is what's Chet look like at the four, you know, 12, 14 minutes a game. I think it'll be fine. I do also like what Dallas did. They're going to be worse defensively, but they were only like 18th in the West defensively, the regular season last year anyway. So it's not like they relied on their defense. Now they also finish whatever, what were they, the six seed last year? So, um, or no, were they the six seed? Yeah, I think so, um, yeah. So like there's, there's, there's room for that. I think they'll, that will overall improve them next year because he's a clay tops is a perfect fit for their offense. So I'd say OKC and Dallas, I would say Denver certainly got worse. Um, but they're still going to be a contender for the top seed because of yokech and Murray and mostly yokech. And then, um, I would say golden state got a little bit worse, but of course they were not a playoff team last year anyway. So, um, those are probably the two, the two big ones in terms of teams. And I guess the Clippers would be an obvious one too. So it's, I don't know that the West is tougher necessarily. I just think it's, it's your typical shuffling. It didn't get easier. It didn't get tougher. It's just Dallas. OKC are going to be better. Denver may be slightly worse. And, you know, golden state and, and Oklahoma, or excuse me, um, the Clippers, you know, probably pretty clearly worse this year. It's going to be as tough as ever. I don't, I don't know that there's a, um, it's, it's necessarily tougher than it was last year. Yeah. I wonder if he's already, yep. Because Reggie tried to hate on Luca. I don't know if you saw, but like the, like the Gen Z guys do. He just posted a workout video already. He's, yeah, Luca is training. Yeah, get in shape, baby. Jack, we got one minute left. Yeah, for me, it's, it's, it's not all the malcontents in New Orleans. It's Oklahoma City. Um, you know, Cruz, I was a massive upgrade from, from Josh Giddy. They put two borderline unplayable guys and Hayward and, and, uh, and Giddy and replacing with two guys that are, that are super useful. I thought the heart and shine deal was like a huge overpay. But, um, yeah, I think that he's the exact type of player that they need, uh, with, that, that brings physicality, uh, very, very good room protection next to an already great room protector and chat, um, really good offensive rebounder and heart and shine too, but can also be a really good DHL guy, um, up top to help create space for, for SGA and, and Jalen Williams. So, um, you know, I think Oklahoma City should, should absolutely be the one seed next year. I think if they're not, it's a failure on their part or they dealt with some type of injuries. Um, and, and, you know, I think that they, they kind of had a similar problem to the wolves and that like they don't really have a whole lot of bench. Uh, like one key guy off the bench that like you can trust to go get you, you know, 15 points a game or something like that. I think that would probably be their biggest weakness, but they got a bunch of rock solid guys, um, off the bench and, and they resigned a couple of them. Um, you know, this offseason, the long term deals, which was, which was good business for, for Presti. So I think, I think it's got to be Oklahoma City. Um, and, and frankly, there's not really anybody else in, in the West besides them and, and maybe Dallas that, that really scares me or would have me concerned and, and apply off series. Jack, are you okay? Having to admit that the funds are legit. Wow. Does Jack test him for a concussion? He's in the protocol, um, covered a lot of ground today. That's Jack Foreman, Ben beak and locked on wolves. Ron Johnson, Ron Johnson, Joe Reggie Wilson, Carol Levin. I'm Sam extra. I'm Wolfstock every Wednesday in the Minnesota basketball party. I'm locked on sports, Minnesota. Thanks a lot for watching. See you. Hey, every day is NBA free agency is here and coverage doesn't stop with your team. Locked on NBA will be here for you every day of the offseason with quick hitting 30 minute recaps of all the news and rumors in the NBA. Make locked on NBA your second listen and stay caught up on the biggest offseason storylines and free agency signings every day. Available on YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts part of the locked on podcast network. your team every day.