The Game Is About Glory (Spurs Podcast)
Spurs In The 80s
Milo, Steff, Gareth and Ricky take a deep look back at Spurs in the '80s. From sexy style to fantastic fluid football, we give you a portal back to what many consider the modern foundations of Tottenham Hotspur. We'll also be looking at the turbulence that came when new ownership and ideas arrived at the Lane, plus reflecting on some of the greatest glory glory moments in club history. Settle in, this is a deep dive with all the emotional trimmings...
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- Duration:
- 1h 36m
- Broadcast on:
- 16 Jul 2024
- Audio Format:
- mp3
[Music] Hello, and welcome to the Games About Glory. I'm your host Milo, and joining me are Ricky, Gareth, and Steph. Hello, chaps! Hi mate. Hi mate, how are you? We're a day late this week because there was a football game or something on Sunday night. This week we're talking about Spurs in the 80s. A few years ago we did an episode of Spurs in the 90s. Gareth enjoyed it so much that he wrote a book on the subject, and has been on just about every Spurs pod recently plugging it. Fair enough, we're talking about Jason Kunde. Gareth suggested that we go back a decade and talk about Spurs in the 80s, and the altogether more enjoyable period in our history, where we had great players and trophies aplenty. But before we get to that, Argentina won the Copa America for the second time in succession with the World Cup in between, so three major trophies on the trot, not bad. Giovanni Lacellso got an assist for the only goal as they beat Columbia 1-0. QT Romero played the full 90 minutes with Gio coming on in the 97th minute. It's the 16th time that Argentina won the Copa, drawing them level with Uruguay for the all-time most wins in the competition. I think that's it for international football this week, isn't it? All right, OK then. England lost to Spain in the Euro final. As we know, Gareth Southgate doomed himself to a fruitless campaign by failing to select any Spurs players in his squad, leaving the glitzy names from Manchester City Arsenal Chelsea Manchester United and Crystal Palace to fight out a 2-1 defeat. What do you think's champs? I think sometimes in football, you just have to look at it and the better team won and deservedly went on to win the whole competition. It was a fantastic Spanish team and performance throughout the competition, and England just came up short against them. No, you're absolutely right. How good was Spain? I mean, I will say this tactically, when you can bring on Zubamendi to replace Rodri, I think you're in a pretty good place, right? The player players aside, I thought, wow, there's a drop-off here, Shirley, certainly not. Yeah, well-deserving and a good effort by England, so we shouldn't be unhappy. What do you think, Ricky? Well, I think it's pretty obvious the best team won as in through the out-the-out tournament and seven games in a row, I think, didn't they? It was a bit disappointing in the way, but it kind of ended in this kind of way. You kind of thought it was going to end really, but just a bit passive, really, won't we? And I don't think we kind of stepped in when it looked like we could step in, like Steph's example there, half-time, roughly going off. And also, when we equalised, we then kind of lost control of the game again. But, you know, there was not that many highlights in the tournament for us, but it looks like Southgate, well, I don't know, Southgate, leave, who reckons? He said that he was going to take him days rather than weeks to decide. I mean, I wouldn't blame him if he decided to walk away based on the kind of abuse he's received during the tournament. Evidently, the FA and the players want him to stay on. I know it's kind of not the most fashionable popular opinion at the moment. I'm hard-pressed to think of us getting someone better. Oh, I agree with you. You know, I don't think he's the best manager around by any stretch of the imagination, but I think, you know, his record at international level for England is, well, unsurpassed, really. And, yeah, I think if he wants to stay on, I don't offer him a contract, but I suspect that most pods will stay different this week. Well, whatever about them, this is us and I agree with you. And I think he's earned the right to go for the World Cup. I think that would be his final tournament by any stretch. And I think the other mitigating factor of this tournament is, and we've said this on the poll a few times, you know, these players came in with a ton of football already in their minds and bodies. And I thought what I saw in the last 20 minutes of the final was just fatigue. I just thought they were so tired. And that's when those details really count, you know, and those little mistakes, those little, you know, areas of the picture. You're not quite as tight and it just, they look knackered. I mean, they really did. They all look so tired. So, you know, I think it'd be interesting to see what kind of team evolves over the next couple of years. I mean, I think your Karl Walker's probably at the end of his international career or close to it. Yes. You know, Harry Kane, I think as a starting player, looks like he's getting close to the end. Yes. You know, when you talk about players who are dead on their legs, you know, he's looked at like most of the tournament really. And he's a shadow of what he is at his best. So, yeah, it'll be interesting to see kind of what that means and what, you know, in who comes through. I mean, when you consider his starting point and where he's taking us and his results, he's had with the finals and the semi-final. It just, it stands up against anything, really. So, it might just be the same old thing, just like in club football, and unless you win, everyone just, you know, starts kind of, you know, criticising an ammonium really. So, I don't know, but fair play to him. I still hope he's available for the many 90 jobs. I thought that'd come up. That seems like a good point to move on to the week that was. Steph, do you want to take over here as we're doing it? I'll have to tip this week. Yes, as we're flipping this, indeed. Rodrigo Bentonkor. Well, I mean, look, slide from zero to hero. That's just continuing, really, isn't it? And it continued to pace this week. And Euroguys, Copa America, semi-final against Columbia, which they lost one, they'll, by the way. Bentonkor only lasted 34 minutes after injuring himself in a collision with a teammate. Then at the final whistle, the Euroguying players led by Darwin Nunez climbed into the stands to have a fight with Columbian fans. The Columbian fans are said to have breached security and got close to an area of the stadium where the Euroguys squad's family and friends were seated. Bentonkor did not climb into the stands, but he did throw what looks like two glass bottles into the stands, hitting a member of the Euroguying team staff on the side of the head, injuring them and drawing blood. He's among 11 Euroguying players that Comable have named as being under investigation for their role in the incident. Comable will use video evidence as part of their investigation and the players face possible finds an international suspension. Chaps, he is a pillock, right? And has your patience run out with him? Yes, he's been a pillock on more than one occasion in the last, since the season ended. Let's see what happens over the next couple of days and weeks with him, really, but yet not good for a fully grown man, who has maturing, has responsibilities to have been involved in such unsavory incidents? I think we're going to talk about quite a lot of memories tonight when it comes to the ages. And I'll remember, like, it's still out to me. We was at a party once with some football friends and that, just but mainly people that knew each other and one of our friends must have been, I think he's like a bit worse away, slightly, you know, you know, I think he had some kind of mitigating issues going on at the time, but he for some reason randomly just threw a glass bottle across the room and it smashed against the wall. And something like that, it resonates so much of you, that's why you remember that kind of stuff. It's almost like one of those moments where you stop and just think, "What the fuck are you doing?" That is just such a dangerous thing to do. And randomly you could be hurting anyone, you know, it could be without being too sorry. So if you could life, or just, you know, it could look at someone's life with it, you hit him in the face in the right and stuff like that. So I just, I don't know what gets into people when they have those kind of moments like that. And I think as we said before the chat, it wasn't going to solve any of the problems going on within the stand. So it's just a stupid act on his part. Yeah, I mean, if any of us did that in the street, you know, if we were outside the sports stadium or inside the sports stadium and chucks a glass bottle and it hits someone on the side of the head and smashed, we'd be arrested, we'd be banned from a ground, and we'd probably be facing prison. You know, I've seen people get glassed in pubs a few times, it's fucking messy, you know, it's nasty. It can do, like you said, it can do serious damage. And it doesn't matter how close, I mean, throwing a bottle indiscriminately into a crowd isn't protecting your family and friends because it could easily have hit family and friends. You know, I think Steph, you were saying people were drawing parallels with when Eric Dyer vaulted the seats to go up to the stands. But I mean, in that incident, he didn't hit anyone. He didn't do anything. He didn't do anything indiscriminate. So I don't see any parallels there. Yeah, it's like comparing a cow with a horse. I mean, they're both mammals, but I mean, it's like it's ridiculous. I mean, it's so different. Yeah, and in terms of my patients running out. Yeah, it has the guys. Yeah, the second time since the season finishes Gareth the same, where he's shown himself to be a complete prick. And I don't really want that at the club. So, yeah, I wouldn't be upset at all if, you know, if an offer comes in, we accept it. And I would think that the club probably are thinking that they could do without this as well. It's, I think that Ange is all about who can I trust. And that means being able to keep your head and remain on a football pitch. Yeah. Anyway, let's move on. I think we all agree on that. Good news here. Will Langtshire have signed a contract extension? It will keep him at the club until 2029. Langtshire is one of the stars about title-winning U21 side last season. And he's been training with our first team squad this last week. According to Alistair Gold, Langtshire is expected to go out on loan this season. And there is plenty of interest in him from championship and league one clubs. It's good stuff, isn't it? Good news. Yeah, it's brilliant. I mean, I thought he looked fantastic last season. This is a player that I was really wrong on when we saw. I thought we'd signed him to make up the numbers. And yeah, I couldn't be more wrong. He really impressed me last year. He looks ready for first team football. Yeah, somewhere, not with us yet. But it looks ready for first team football. He's certainly big enough for the men's game. His technique, he's got a good touch for a big lad. Yeah, he looks really complete. And I think after a season or two on loan, he could be challenging for a place, you know, a place in the squad. So yeah, fantastic news and to time down to a long contract. Long contract is, you know, smart. So yeah, really pleased. Yeah, I think, I think five years, definitely, he's just, he's obviously creating the right impression within the club. Because that's like, that's good for him, really. I mean, he's still in academy football, so yeah. Yeah, I would find it, you never really know, do you? What these, what these plays roots into the first team will be, ultimately, that will determine whether, whether he becomes a star for us or not in the future. But it's good that the club are in control of the situation by getting in tight of a contract. And, you know, hopefully he also feels in control of that. And there's a good plan for his development over the next couple of years. Because yeah, we think we're fortunate, we have got a lot of young forwards. And obviously one is just left the club, which we'll go on to for the next bullet point. But yeah, it's just really important for him now that he gets the right opportunity to further his development. And chaps, and all of you out there, there's some new edge content on Spurs play for you. Because there's an hour long documentary called Angie's Story. It has quite a lot of stuff you would have seen in the various documentaries and interviews that have been released over the last year. But it does fill a gap and kind of put everything in one nice little package. If you've been suffering from and withdrawal symptoms, I have not seen it yet. Gents, any of you seen it? Any thoughts? I've seen it. And as you can tell from the bit, I just, you've just read out that I wrote. It's kind of largely repackaged material, but it's good. It's a fun way to spend an hour. And yeah, if you're pointing for a bit of angi action before the hearts game on Wednesday, then, yeah, dive in. If you're pining for the field, as they once said in Monty Python, see, I'll get it right. See, I've got it right this week. I've got it right this week. Anyone else? No, neither of you have seen it. No, I've had a little dose of angi and ITV when the euros has been on. So that's just kept me ticking over. He was quite good value on there. Yes, he was indeed. Something else that happened that actually appears to have been very exciting. I didn't see this either. I don't think any of us did. The first team played a behind closed doors friendly against Cambridge United on Saturday afternoon. Ali Gold did some detective work on the game. And so, as Milo has written here, I most certainly would never do this, even though we are. No, of course we would. Ali's the one who had the information. Ali Gold did some detective work on the game. And what follows is pretty much entirely lifted from him. We put out a different team in each half. The first half finished five nil to Spurs. And the second half is a 2-2 draw. Pedro Poiro is Bessuma. Dejan Kolosewski. Brennan Johnson. Sonnyo Min. And Manuel Solomon all played in the first half. Brennan got a hat trick and Sonny scored the other two. James Madison, Team Overna. Oliver Skip, Emerson Rial, Team Overna again. That's two Team Overnas. Or maybe there was a Werner and a Team Overna. Maybe we've got another Werner. Mikey Moore and Archie Gray played in the second half. And our goals in the second half came from Mikey Moore and Team Overna forced a known goal. So Archie Gray was playing it right back. Jamie Donnelly played it left back. That's quite an exciting thought in and of itself. Mikey Moore played on the right wing. Lucas Bergwald played in the attacking midfield role. Alejo Vales and Dane Skalet also played with lots of the players who were our way on international duty, still not back. Particularly in defense, there are a lot of youngsters involved. Tyree's Hall, George Abbott and Luca Gunther all featured. And 16-year-old Centerback, Janai Bifield, also played. Jed Spence and Sergio Region were there and have been in training but did not feature and are reported to have been told by Ange that they're not in his plans. Quite an exciting little round up there, though, isn't it? It's going to be said. Yeah, and particularly the players out of position. You just assume partly that's down to who's not there and who's not back from international duty yet. But Mikey Moore on the right would make a lot of sense. As you remember back when we did the squad review, at the end of last season, we were talking about kind of gaps where we are and where we're shorter players. And that left wing position. I think we've got quite a lot of options there, but there's less on the right-hand side. And if he could settle there, if he could play there, it's not somewhere that I think he's played much for the academy. That could be really useful. It could really solve a problem. I'm guessing that we're not going to see Jamie Donle as cover through Doggy too much in the coming season. But it's a nice idea, isn't it? Yeah, I've got many minutes he can get in the first team in no matter what position. I'm going to get a weaker position as well. He probably gets lots of touches at the ball, maybe not as much defending as he would do. Would he worry playing in the first team in a competitive game or not? But yeah, every minute that he gets around those players and hopefully builds up their trust as well will only be a good thing. I think Donle's got the football brain and the technical ability to do a job probably, if he's asked in most places, it lacks probably the UW's power and he's kind of like fossil running. We're so hungry for it, aren't we? We're just breaking down this performance as much as we can and start going ahead and live against Brilliant. It's exciting. It's exciting to see these in close doors. I know it's brilliant, isn't it? Well, it's exciting. The thing that tells me is that we've got very intelligent players who can do a number of different things. And so the options in the future are going to be fantastic. I'm just going to say that she's briefly kind of denied by field. Yeah, 16-year-olds, he only turns 16, I think, in March as well. So really, really young. To be involved with the first team must be a real boost for him. And the evidence is quite highly rated in the academy. But to be involved at such a young age, particularly as a centre-back as well, is very unusual. Of course, suddenly, 16 is the new 20 or 21. Thanks to a guy called Yamina Lamal, who's pretty much blown the mistake of being brilliant and 16 very young. But not a centre-back. Yeah, but anyway, anyway. OK, Delhi, just reading the name, brings warmth to my heart. It really does, Spurs and Everton are said to be close to an agreement on a new agreement on Delhi Ali that will allow him to sign a new contract with Everton. Delhi had been training at Hotspur way after his Everton contract expired at the end of last season, but he is now back training with Everton. He joined them from us in January 2022 on a free transfer, but with future payments based on appearances, other add-ons and a slice of any future fee. Delhi has only played 13 times for Everton, plus another 13 games on loan at Bishikdas, and he missed all of last season with injury. Look, his struggles with fitness, form, injuries and mental health have all been well documented over the last few years. Who could forget that heartbreaking interview that he did with Gary Neville last summer have been still residents? And Everton want to keep Delhi, but the structure of the deal, they agreed with us when he joined, was a barrier to that. So the good news here is it appears that the two clubs have come together and reached an amicable solution that would see us get a percentage of any future fee, and frankly also allow this brilliant, brilliant talent to enjoy a career hopefully, and to maybe get the fruits of all the hard work he's put into himself over the last few years. It's got to be news that we're all happy about, for many reasons, isn't it, Chaps? Yeah, I mean, the impression I get with Tottenham and Everton here, and I think it's like a good impression, is I think empathy for Delhi's situation is kind of overtaking any monetary consideration, because I think all in the wheels to make it as easy as possible and to get back on track is what's needed here, really, because the years ticked by for Delhi, and he could well have something still to offer, I think. So we don't want technicalities of old contracts and situations easy and to get in the way of that, so I think it's good. Yeah, I think we all envisage a day where Delhi Ali is playing back at the best of his ability, hopefully, in the Premier League, or one of the top divisions, and knocking on the door for England again, and the sooner that happens, the better, and it's good that both clubs seem to have a mature attitude and seem to be putting his needs first at the moment, and, yeah, hope he can continue his own journey from redemption. Yeah, it's funny during the Euros, I was kind of reflecting on how integral he was to England, and not that long ago, and what's happened since, and, yeah, really, he ought to be hitting his peak years right now, and, you know, really be in his pomp, it's such a shame that it hasn't played out like that. I was wondering, Steph, to say the news that he was training at Hotspur Way, if you'd seen him in a Spurs training kit with Ange, and the rest of the squad, your heart would have done a somersault, wouldn't it? Yeah, I mean, quite seriously, he's still one of the greatest players. I've seen, I think, play for us. The talent was just extraordinary, and the way he played was beautiful, and it still, it makes me very sad what happened to him, and, yeah, I mean, there's a romantic in me that would love him, love him to play for us again. It will never happen, it won't fit, it shouldn't fit, it couldn't fit, we can't go backwards, but I would settle for a chance to sing his name again, at our stadium with him coming back, you know, I really would. Ange loves a box-crashing midfielder, so, you know, I think... Don't do it to me, don't do it to me, but you know what's interesting, you were talking about the euros, and I couldn't help but reflect, you know, on Kane, and obviously he wasn't quiet himself, and so on and so forth, but you think about the intelligence that they showed playing off each other, and how brilliant Kane was, but how wonderful Delhi was at playing off him, and finding, I mean, it was just such a seamless dovetail. Yeah, what a player, yeah, I got a little emotional there for a moment, he's a special, and what he did, in terms of explaining his mental health, I mean, my god, the echoes of that should be felt in the profession of football for years to come, so yes, I'm so glad for once the right thing appears to be happening. Troy Parrot has joined AZ Alkmar for £6.7 million, plus a 20% salon clause, he signed a five-year contract with AZ, and he joined us in 2017 from Belvedere, made four appearances for the first team and had loans at Millwall, Ipswich, MK Don's, and Preston prior to spending last season alone, except at Excelsior Rotterdam, where he scored 17 goals. Chaps, what do you think? How do you feel about it? Is it a good move for Troy? I'm kind of amazed that he's only made four first team appearances for us, you know, considering how long he's been with us, and you know, I was kind of thinking back to, there was a marinium, it was Benetro, wasn't it, and Kane was injured, and there was that kind of cacophony from the fans to include, in which Mourinho ignored, and yeah, he was the next big thing for us. Everyone was very, very excited, I think there's probably a lesson for us about kind of managing our expectations around young players, and that it doesn't always kind of play out as you think it might do, when they're ripping it out for the under-21s. Yeah, I think this is a good deal for him, he needs to be playing regular football, you know, that Excelsior Rotterdam side he played for last season, scored a lot of goals and played really well, got relegated, so he's playing really well and scoring a lot of goals in a team that went down, and hopefully joining a slightly better team, he can improve on that. I know that there was interest from quite a few Dutch clubs, and I think from the Bundesliga as well, so maybe this is a stepping stone for him, and with the 20% set on feet, we've got the option of signing it back at a discount, if he really takes off and looks like he could do a job in the Premier League. Yeah, I gather he was desperate to make it work for him at Spurs, he'd been with us, I think from a 15-year-old, he came out from Ireland, so yeah, he joins a long list of players, possibly others that we'll name later this evening, who are forward to come up through the system, but as we mentioned with Ball Lancashire, I think particularly for strikers, they're under so much pressure, they've got to come in and score a goal straight away, whereas you think a defender or midfielder maybe has got a bit more of a bedding in process, where they fall under the radar, but I think as a forward, once you've played more than five or six games and haven't scored, you must have that internal pressure, even if subconsciously, it's not portrayed on to you from the crowd. So yeah, he's obviously done well in his well thought of in the Netherlands, and it'll be a good league for him, and he will, I'm sure, continue to be picked and to do well for the national team as well, which will be a great honour for him personally. Yeah, I mean, good luck to him, I might always have like a little momentary internal dialogue when you hear these kinds of things, because you think the thing you want, your players to do when they're out on loan is have a good loan, don't you? And he said exactly that. So you do initially think, well, maybe we should be just at least seeing him in pre-season and try him, and he might be like an answer to something, but I think on the flip side of that, he's, as I think as Gareth said, he's been here a number of years now, so a lot of people have had eyes on him, you know, and not even the first thing coaches, there's other people at the club that watch these players and probably realise whether they're going to have it or not have it, and I think he's been there enough years now that if the decision is to sell him on or, you know, move him on, and for what all intense purposes, quite a good fee, really, then we do that. I think we have to do that. I might be still got, you know, Lancashire, Skyler, Villies and all that, so, you know. Yeah, I mean, I think the other thing to bear in mind, and, you know, might be one of the things behind this, is that as a forward, he likes to kind of drop deep, link play, drift wide, and that's not really what Andrew wants in a centre forward, Andrew wants to centre forward, who's, you know, forcing the centre, centre defenders back, hanging on the shoulder of them, and, you know, kind of poaching in the box, and that's not really Parrot's game, so it might also just be fit for the system that's a consideration here. Going to get into that a little more. I mean, there's so many reasons that a player doesn't make it a club particularly, and it's not necessarily down to their talent. Sometimes it is due to the fit, and I think one of the mistakes that we've made as a club in the past is sometimes we hold on to these young talents, maybe, when they don't fit the current system, and so we miss our window to actually get a return on our investment, and we kind of shaft them a little bit as well with their careers, so maybe this is a signal that as a club we're learning to operate in a better way for all, it's better for the player, good luck to him, I hope that he goes on to have a great career, it certainly looks like he will have a decent one, and good for us for not, you know, just holding on to it for a bit longer when it's not fitting the system we've got, so it seems to be another maturing of the ways at the club, so good. Yeah, I agree with that, it's the kind of thing that we've been, you know, envious of other clubs for doing is, you know, selling academy players for profit, and, you know, using that to kind of fund other signings, and, you know, you look at Chelsea, you know, they appear to be on good terms with young players who they let go, and that hasn't always been the case with us, so yeah, I think there's two jobs for the academy, isn't it? It's developing teams for players for us, but it's also, you know, developing a pathway for the players to become professional footballers and have six success careers. Yes, that's the second part. Yeah, even if that's not what it is, it's sort of a duty of care, if you're going to even go down this path of investing in youth football, I think it really is, and it's nice to see it fulfilled in all ways. And I also think it helps us bringing in good players from elsewhere, because if you, you know, if you're looking to recruit someone and you think, if I go to this academy, I'm going to get a chance, but if I don't get a chance, you know, if I don't succeed with that club, they're going to do right by me, and I'm going to have a good career in somewhere else, and, you know, we've had a problem with losing good talents, which I think is because I haven't seen a pathway. And I think, yeah, being prepared to tell at the right time is the end. That brings us to the end of the week that was not even a transfer rema this week, because we may not have time. I dropped them because all of the ones, I was going to rename it bullshit corner, because basically, there's nothing other than stuff. We've also got clearly far better things to be talking about, which you're going to take over from now, right? So take us there now. Come on, let's go. Such a spurs in the 80s. So we'll kick off with an easy one. So what was it like being a spurs fan in the 80s, and maybe tell us a little bit about what type of spurs fan you were in, were in the 80s, or at least kind of what point of the 80s you come in being a spurs fan. I think, Steph, you go back further. So do you want to kick us off? I mean, in the nicest possible world. I'm not going to give you my entire history. Don't worry. But I am going to say the first game I saw was 1975. We discussed that on a previous pod somewhere down the line. But my first fully engaged season was 1980, 81, was the cup season. First, I should say the cup season, ricky beer season, as I fondly call it, Junior season ticket on the shelf. That was my beginning. That was my mostly home, a few away games entry. And then the following season, I started to go away as well, when rail travel was cheap. And the great thing was, we didn't have a telephone in our house. So I didn't have to call my mum and dad and tell them where I was. They just sort of miraculously trusted. They would all be okay. But as we'll get into a little bit, I started to tell them some stories about 20 years later of what was really going on sometimes. Not involving me, but around me. It was quite a time. It was quite a time. It was electric and not always in the best way. I would say incredibly exciting. And I actually found, I thought it was really sexy. So, and I thought supporting Spurs in 1980, 81, and for several years after that, it actually felt really fucking cool. You felt cool. You felt that you were standing for something like, you know, for me, the anti-Nazi league thing was really important. You just felt cool. You just did. And there's much more to get into. So I'm going to seed the floor now. I'm going to hand it over. Ricky, did you feel cool in the 80s? Yeah, I think so. I think well, I suppose when you're, I don't know, I mean, I'm a bit younger than Steph's. I suppose coming into the 80s, I don't know, I'm a kind of year three or year four primary kid then. So I'm not sure. Do you feel cool at that age? I think, you know, once you're a bit more teenage, you kind of, the cornist might descend on you. You know, and if you've got a couple of teams cool, then that definitely helps. But yeah, it's definitely my formative years as a kid, really. And as a Spurs fan, I think, stretch from the early 80s, I would be, as I say, eight, nine years old or up to voting age when I left the 80s. So, you know, I changed a lot in that time as well. So I think your initial stages of that is you're very present as a young kid in the sense of you love all the details of everything. And, you know, just even the name of the team is something then, isn't it? And, you know, the white heart lane, what a name for a stadium. All that's kind of so, so magical. And you know, the kits we had and the kind of thing. Beautiful. Beautiful. Yeah, they're playing hodl gorgeous glens. You know, well, like, we'll ignore Paul Miller and Graham Roberts. Was he in that? Was he in that? Just, just, yeah, I mean, there was a lot of beauty in that side, you know, on the pitch and just the way they carried themselves. And I think early days, it helped because the, well, you don't think you're glory hungers, but the finals and the Wembley parentheses came thick and fast, didn't they? Yeah, I mean, I think Ricky, you and I might have to kind of face up that maybe were glory hunters, because we're coming in in a really successful decade. And so I'm a little bit younger than you, not quite a little bit younger than you, Ricky. And so I'm coming in, yeah, a little bit later. And I've got memories earlier in the decade, but it's kind of players or kind of posters on the bedroom wall and, you know, or football stickers and FA Cup final songs rather than games so much. And partly that's down to, you know, the games just not being available in the same way. And but yeah, that was so I kind of, it starts getting a bit clearer kind of around the middle of the middle of the decade. And that's where kind of my memories are stronger and stuff in terms of kind of it being sexy. I kind of, I relate to that. I think when I was a kid, I probably followed, you know, into my teens, I thought I could spot a Spurs fan. I thought a Spurs fan would carry themselves in a certain way that you didn't get with an Arsenal fan or a Liverpool fan. I think Liverpool fans were my kind of most despised enemy at that point, because they really were glory hunters around this period, you know, and kind of, you know, when I was when I was getting into football. So yeah, the kids in my class who supported Liverpool, I thought would take, you know, taking the easy option and particularly if they had no links to the club. So yeah. And yeah, it's like, yeah, I kind of relate to that stuff. I think I've got, you know, a sports person because of an uncle of mine was a Spurs fan and my granddad was a Spurs fan. And my uncle said, if a sports Spurs, he'll buy me a shirt, take me to a game. If I don't, he'll beat me up. And it seemed like a fair deal. So yeah. And he had to glen-hodel-mole it. It was kind of all fitted. Yeah. So for me, I'm the baby of the group, aren't I? So my first understanding of Spurs was, I was born in '81. And I was growing up in my house, watching the news or just being aware of things going on in the real world. The three names or four names that I was most familiar with, because you heard them all the time, were Elton John, Margaret Thatcher, and then this hodel and waddle thing that was something to do with football. And I didn't realise at the time they were two separate people. And then I didn't realise that they had names that Ryan, probably at the time when I was learning about the concepts of Ryan. So that was my sign point. I grew up in an area where, where just north of Enfield really. So everyone was Spurs or Arsenal. So when kids, probably six or seven, start wearing football shirts, it was very obviously a very 50/50 Spurs Arsenal split and Spurs were nominally my dad's team. So my granddad who lived with this was a big Arsenal man. So that was sort of the Spurs that I inherited. I don't remember, I'm the four of us, the least glory hunter, because my first memory of what Spurs were as a team was getting a clean sticker album in about 1988 and looking through the fact file and seeing that Liverpool had won the league and John Barnes was player of the year that Arsenal had finished pretty high up as well. And Spurs had finished 13th the season before. So that was my sort of reference point for what Spurs were as a league team. There's a sort of 13th play team, but it didn't deter me from wearing my sort of long humble shirt that was way too long and went down to the knees. And then we signed gas going that summer. So that was my starting point. I'm not letting you have the least glory hunter. I saw, I was not letting you have that at all. I mean, Birkin Shaw took us down when I was watching, I wasn't going all the time. I saw some pretty grim days. So sorry, you can have the second of that. There's no glory. But what I will say for you take on again, I've got to share this story because it's just sprung to my mind. And it just seems curiously semi inappropriate, but perfect for this pod. We talked about kits, and I bought the replica shirt 1980, you know, that I mean, I just saw crooks and archibald in it. It was just like, wow, this is amazing. And there was a really shit. The shop used to be, I mean, it was a shitty little shop in the corner, the part lane terrible thing. But there it was. I bought it and I got the shorts as well. I was young enough to be able to get away with four kit wankerdom. But I remember wearing both to a fancy dress party in the Christmas of 1980. And I was obsessed with two players at this point, Glen Hoddle and Ricky Veer. And I saw, I wanted to be Glen Hoddle, but I had a bit more of the Ricky Veer's about because I was maybe a little, you know, broad-shouldered and I had thick black hair. So, but I actually ended up in one of my first real proper rumbles in the jungle, if you will, with a girl dressed as Ricky Veer. So, somewhere in there, I think that just made me love the shirt and the kit even more. I was like, wow, I've gone to this fancy dress party is Ricky Veer. And look where it's got me, it's like, I don't know, there's something, something in there that's all part in the memory. A little, little picture of 25 year old Steph there, and you'd have, you know what, if you had this toy, I'd have been disappointed. It would have been really disappointed. Just to say, while we're kind of seen setting, how, how rife was, who look at this, I'm during this period? What was it like going to a game? Wow. All right, I'll tell you a story, okay? So, went to Tottenham Arsenal at Arsenal, my dad took me and my dad didn't want to stand with the Spurs supporters because he thought that it would be, you know, be loads of troubles. I don't, you know, we're not going there. The only way we're going to do it is if we stand in the home end, I'm like, can't do that. What are you talking about? He said, if you want to go, that's how we're going. So, we went and within 20 minutes of being there, there were petrol bombs being thrown behind us, you know, milk bottles of paraffin and so on and so forth. About 500 Spurs fans, it seemed like 10,000 to me had come in. All sorts of people getting all sorts of shades beating out of them and suddenly I was surrounded by Tottenham fans. Now, of course, as a barely teenage boy, I just looked at my dad and I said, see, it was meant to be. We should have been with it. We should have gone with our fans in the first place, but it'll give you a picture. It was awful. I mean, at the time, I was too young to register it now with the wisdom of age. I mean, I just look and I'm like, you know, it was some barbaric behavior. I went to wolves one year, wolves away. I was wearing a pair of Dr. Mines that my friend had given me. My mother didn't want me to wear them because they were, you know, considered she didn't like what they represented. He gave me a pair. They were telling you to take your laces out and you have to put piles of laces outside the way and at Mollanyu one year because the theory was, well, that way, you can't, you know, kick 10 shades of shit out of each other. I got my coat slashed at West Ham, the Stanley knife when they were, you know, I mean, so there's three or four and I got chased through Birmingham New Street by Aston Villa supporters in 1981 after we'd lost four nil. So hopefully, that gives you a little bit of a picture. It was pretty grim. I will tell you that I never saw trouble like that at White Heart Lane itself. And I always felt very safe at White Heart Lane, but maybe that's because I was a home supporter, but I can tell you, going away, it was that horrible lifesage of there's this adrenaline and excitement because you know it's feral and you know something could happen. But it's also incredibly dangerous. And when you look back, really, really not good. But yeah, it was, it was very, very bad in the early 80s. Ricky, did you see any of that at all? Well, no, I mean, as I was saying, I mean, my relationship kind of changed with Spurs because I grew up as well. And then I actually used to go to games and I didn't go to 86, 87. And that was almost a rite of passage stuff for myself because as I think I said before, that no one was going to take me to Tottenham. So I would, I would take, I'll take the train up from the South, South London suburbs, the Surrey suburbs really, and just make that journey on my own. I don't think I even told my parents to be honest to start with. I've been to games before that, because I used to go to Sellers Park and some various other things. I had a Liverpool sport in May and we occasionally went to a Liverpool way game in London, like Loftus Road and that kind of thing. But I didn't really see any kind of, I mean, there was trouble and a bit of kind of shouting and things. But the other thing that there was quite a lot of is just the sheer weight of people in a terrace and that sometimes. I mean, we know obviously the horrific events that happen later on, but plenty, especially at Loftus Road, they could cram people in there. And that's the stadium. That's the stadium I got the closest to being crushed at was in 19, was in 1980, January 1981, when we went there for the third round, I literally thought I was going to get, I mean, I could feel the breath being pushed out of me, I had to hop up. Yeah. At the way that Loftus Road used to be empty. So yeah, you're absolutely right. There was, yeah. I mean, it was, I mean, you know, there was always tensions at games and I think like Steph said, the kind of everything just fell, I don't know what's the best way, everything felt loose, didn't it? In other words, it could just sway or go any way, you know, with the kind of atmosphere and the crowd and people in pubs and outside the ground and the whole kind of, the facilities obviously were completely different there with more like crumbling concrete. It was a critical juncture, though, that would have happened between our phases of supporting there, which was Heisel and what subsequently happened after Heisel, I think changed a lot. I mean, I thought what happened in 1980 in the European temperatures is going to change a lot, but Heisel, I think changed the atmosphere a lot and I'm sure we'll get into it later, but yeah, we've got some questions on that. So we will come back to that, and particularly kind of the impact it had on us. And just kind of one final kind of scene setting question. So what kind of, what was the technical and kind of physical level of players like during this period? I think technically, some of the play that we were producing was incredible because we had some technically brilliant players. I mean, we had, we had, you know, Glenn Hoddle, who I think, you know, if you could transpose him to the modern game, would would fit so seamlessly and would be a superstar and certainly wouldn't probably be with us. It has to be said, probably be it Madrid or someone like that. Who knows? Brilliant player. Physical, the physical level. I'm not sure if you mean that question in terms of the physical level of a 90-minute game or the physicality of the football being played. I think it's probably a bit of both, isn't it? I think it's kind of how fit were the players, but I think also kind of how physical was the game. And I suppose we could also kind of touch on, I mean, again, I mean, let's just be very aware of the kind of the state of the pitches and the kind of conditions that people are playing in. But I think all of that kind of melts into one. I suppose, you know, if you look at our team, you know, we've got, as you said, we've got some very, very skillful players there, but they're playing in quite horrendous conditions in a period where they're not getting a lot of protection, I would say. Yeah. Well, I mean, you said you've nutshell that you've put it, you've put it in a nutshell, I should say. Sorry. I'm still not shelling. That's the way I work. But yeah, I definitely some incredibly agricultural football in defensive terms. I mean, some challenges that just beg your belief. I mean, I can tell you there was a game against Barcelona in the semi-final of the Cup Minas Cup, which remains to this day. One of the most violent games of football I've ever seen perpetrated largely by Barcelona, I will say. And he's actually why I can never fully buy into this whole love of Barcelona, because I still have this stain that horrible side and how disgraceful they were the way they went about the game. And I think actually the fitness levels of the players, when you look back, they can't have been that bad. I mean, because they managed to play some incredibly long seasons. But the conditions of the pitches and all that, that plays into it. The football was maybe a little slower, you know, but I mean, I think that, you know, proportionately speaking, a technical level was fantastic and the physical level was extreme. So Gareth, I know you've been kind of going back watching games. So what struck you from those? Well, you talk about the technical level of HODL, and I do wonder where the Spurs were a bit of an outlier, actually, because you think Al Midfield for the early part of the '80s was made up of HODL. I know all of these could put it about a bit, particularly Ricky. But Osley as well, and you think Mickey Hazard would come in as well. And I can't imagine many other teams, you know, certainly not Liverpool doing far more workmen like than that, wouldn't they? They wouldn't have had the same level of finesse that, you know, that we did. But I mean, it's things like when there's a, I mean, the goalkeeper's kicked the ball long every time, didn't they? And then when it got to the centre half, rarely did you see a player bring it down, look up, check, play the ball square. It kind of went straight back up towards the halfway line. And then, yeah, in our case, one of HODL, I'd either be able to brought the ball down and there to play it, and probably made something happen for it. But I think watching other teams, it was just a bit of head tennis across the halfway line for a lot of the game. I think there was, I mean, when you were young and that you are attracted to the style of a player and the ones that have got the skill and the finesse. And that's what you look for. I think there was obviously some standout. I mean, the game was harder then because of just the pictures, like you said, and also, you know, the lack of substitute. So you were just carrying on and playing without much chance of being substituted and probably through various states of injury at certain points. But I mean, there was always the standout kind of hard men of footballs. I don't know, the Mickey Droys and the Billy Whitehursts and all that kind of people. There was someone that literally was a real, real hard man kind of thing. But most other people, you were only really noticing the players with style. And we had plenty of them. And that's probably what made us attractive and attracted to a younger person to look at. You'd get what you'd call, well, I suppose, industrious players. And we had probably, I mean, Stevie Perema was definitely that. And probably Paul Allen later on was a classic kind of industrious player that really would give everything for you, but maybe not be, you know, have the kind of flash skills that they would, you know, these days they would make YouTube Reels out or put them. Yeah. I think that's a kind of coming in point for the next question, really, which is kind of this period, the early period here, there's a Birkenchor team. So the 80 to 84. Do you think this is kind of the era that defines what we want Spurs to be, you know, kind of attractive football, cup success, technically gifted players, pretty, you know, aesthetically pleasing midfielders, but, you know, maybe not having the consistency for league challenges. That's how we define Spurs, what it means to be Spurs. One of the things with Birkenchor is that's really interesting to note, he, when he retired from playing in the late 60s, went to Zambia for a little bit, you know, I suppose to tinker about with some coaching and see, and he came back to Britain, right, came back and was at Newcastle, but, you know, and then he ended up in Bahrain when he left us for a little bit. You know, so he always, it seems to me, had a little more imagination around it maybe with the way he thought about the game and approached the game, just that you would do something like that in the late 60s as an English, you know, football, ex football was a fairly revolutionary idea. I think the way that, you know, he obviously saw Aussie and Ricky, and I think, yeah, I think he saw this as he saw, he saw flair and he wanted to bring it. I think he just wanted to bring it to us. I mean, he was, yeah, he established this style with us that was incredibly, I mean, it was, I go back to the word sexy and I'm sort of struggling a little bit here, but for the right adjectives, but take a look at Chris Hooten, for example. I mean, you know, I see Danny Thomas and I think fantastic, great player, boss or Chrissy Hooten, and he was absolutely phenomenal in that role. Stevie Perry was industrious, but he was equally adept at raiding on the right hand side. You know, Glenn Hoddle interchanging with Ricky and Aussie, that midfield was very fluid, you know, the way Crooks and Archibald played off each other. I mean, there was so much fluidity and so much, we seemed very smooth. When we were clicking, we just seemed so smooth. And yeah, I think that has become the prototype for the modern Tottenham's Hotspur supporter. I don't remember the double side, obviously, I wasn't born. So there's a generation that will tell you that was push and run, Arthur Rowe, son and so forth. I think for our generations, yeah, this was the flow of that, of that team when it was clicking was just, just beautiful. What do you think, Ricky? Is this kind of the ideal spurs that you have in your head when you think of us? I think so. And I think almost it's some, in some respects, over some years, it's become a burden, isn't it, really, that we kind of, we do have that memory of the 80s and, you know, all the way through the 80s and all the up to the end of the gazapiri, really. And we just can't, and we've then had individual players, but I think at that time of the 80s, that Aussie and Ricky signing was just massive to fit them in there, with having a generational talent like HODL and, you know, an excellent skipper in paraben. It really did set us up to have that great period that we're now, I don't know, we're just chasing that all the time. I mean, I don't know, even if that's what our current chairman talks about when he says that, you know, that's what he wants us to be kind of thing. But yeah, it's a hard act to live up to, really, because it brought success. And that's what we're all kind of chasing ever since, really. We're singing and we want our Tottenham back, is it just the top normal pack? I think it is. Yeah, I mean, I grew up on the legend of this team of the early 80s. I've seen footage of them recently. I've been watching a lot of footage of that season. I've been reading up a lot about that team. And I get nowadays we talk about cycles of teams, but it just felt like that team that came out of the second division and evolved had just about everything you wanted. You had that homegrown talent. You had the HODLs and Hootens, and of course, Stevie Perriman was the legacy player back from the Bill Nicholson era. Then you've got that Latin flair at a point where, you know, you take it as granted now that you're going to have lots of players all around the world now. But obviously, Vira and our deal is, what was it that just first shocked the world when we signed them? And then we were really the only team, didn't it? Ipswich maybe had Tyson and Muirun at the time. Yeah. Sheffield United had signed Alejandro, oh god, Isabela. I think it was. And Birmingham had taken Tarantini, so that was the couple. But we were the first club to really have a plan. We signed two players and we knew what we were doing with them. It wasn't just a punt. I feel that that was maybe the difference. And then the other components of that team as well, you've got Graham Robertson and Tony Galby. And it would literally have been plucked from non-league football. And we imagine that as a concept now. And then you've got, yeah, Paul Miller, Robert. So you had a real toughness to that team as well. But they seem like such a tight-knit group as well. But they must have been so relatable to you as a group of fans that I've almost got quite angry with my parents in the last couple of hours. I've been spread up on all of this that they'd had me eight years earlier. Because I really, really just wanted to part of that, watching all the footage back, watching the 81-cut final, listening to people like you, Steph, who were there and lived through it, and reading accounts from people who were there and what it must have been like to have been at Highbury when we beat Wolves in the semi-final. But it just felt like, you know, we've seen it a couple of times over the years where it's felt like everyone from the players to the managers, the fans were all on exactly the same page. And whether I've got this wrong or not, but it really fills up that period was absolutely that. It was everyone together at the same time, in the same moment. I bring you back to that surge of electricity that I talked about. Everything felt so electric and fresh and sexy. And I keep on going back to the shirt. That was part of it. It really was. I mean, I remember that white, you talk about that semi-final replay at Highbury. I mean, that all-white kit, you know, shining under the lights, the passing that night, that through ball from Hardinville to Crooks, then you got Ricky with these like 25-yard bender. I mean, you just there was this. It just felt unstoppable. And the cosmopolitan nature of what the club was, which I touched on earlier, was incredibly appealing. There was so much to feel. And yeah, in terms of congruence, I don't know. I don't know if it was congruence in the way we describe it today. But it was incredibly exciting. And it just felt fresh. We felt fresh. Why do you think it was that we couldn't get it over the line? We couldn't. In terms of the league, obviously, we did in the cups. But, you know, it seems like it's a great side. And we get close-ish a couple of times. Why were we unable to win the league? 1982, 1982, which was, I think, probably, you know, one of the best teams we ever produced. That was attrition. That was a nutrition of games. You know, I'm sure Gareth, you've probably got the stats where I don't. But I believe we had to play something like, I want to say, 14 games in 11 days. There were some ridiculous, disproportionately absurd amount of football we had to play. Galvin basically played with some sort of leg injury, I think, largely, for the rest of his career after that challenge from Graham Soones in the 1982 Milk Cup final, League Cup final. And I'm not speculating there. I think I've said this on this pod before. I've talked to him about it before. And he told me that in any other era of football, we'd have been out for a couple of months, but it wasn't the option. You know, we didn't quite, nobody had squad depth at that point. It wasn't really anything that existed. So I think that that was an attrition thing. I really do. And you cannot also discount the impact of the Falklands War. That really, really blew things apart for us. It took Aussie away from us for a good year. I mean, he ended up missing most of the cut run in 1982. Obviously, missed the final, then went to Paris, Saint-Germain, you know, basically to, I mean, just take cover actually. Ricky tried to ride it out. I don't think he was ever quite the same player. He just took it head and shoulders from everyone. You know, and that really, you think about how important those two players were to us. That's a major, major blow. Yeah. For listeners who were too young to remember Steph, what was happening? Was he getting abused at away grounds? What was happening? Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. There was all sorts of abuse being thrown at first Aussie idealies. And then, you know, and then Ricky was getting it. And yeah, and I remember we'd go to away games and you'd actually be shouting, you'd be chanting Argentina, Argentina, like, you know, they felt the love from us big time. And it felt so tribal and it felt so important as well, you know, in the face of, you know, all these, you know, stupid fucking reporting and the son newspaper were doing on the whole thing and all of it. It felt important. And it was a conflation of all that you'd felt being a Tottenham supporter as well. Like, you know, we stand for the right things, you know, we stand for some sort of multiculturalism. We stand for all this anti-racism and it just felt so important to stand and back this. But it got ugly. I mean, that's semi-final at Villa Park against Leicester. I remember that being a particular hot spot of like verbal exchange. Yeah, it was big. Yeah. Gareth, can we come in there? Yeah, I've literally read up on that. It's at the last 24 hours. So yeah, the conflict in the Falklands began on the 2nd of April. So people woke up to that news on the 3rd and that was the day we played Leicester in the semi-final. And as you said, yeah, Aussie got a rasp by the Leicester fans. Apparently, though, he was always due to go off with the article in the squad. They'd monothee, agreed with Birkenfield that Aussie would miss the last couple of six weeks of the season to prepare for the 82 World Cup. So they said that was a bit of a coincidence that that happened. But yeah, Ricky carried on playing. And then I think the days before the FA Cup final, they just decided just the optics of him shaking hands with the British royal family. Ricky decided. Yeah. Yeah. So that's why he didn't plan. As you said, Aussie then went off and went and played in Paris for six months. And then we missed him. But yeah, that 81-82 season, we finished fourth in the end. We were second in about November time. And then, do you know, we didn't have a league game between the 12th of December and the 27th of January, because of the weather. There was a couple of Cup games in there. But there was no league games for about seven weeks. So I had to look at a league table at one point. And we were in about eighth place. And we had seven games in hand on Southampton. It was top at the point. So yeah, and then we played 19 games in 54 days throughout April and May. That was it. And let me give listeners a really interesting thing to think about. Imagine walking out of hybrid on an Easter Monday, and you've just won 3-1, and you're right in there about pushing for the title. I mean, you're just right in there. You're right in there pushing for the title. You're still in the Cup Winners Cup, looking good in that tournament as well. And they point out, and you're still in the FA Cup. I mean, we walked out thinking the treble was on. And then we had one of those dodgy 2-2 draws. It's Sunderland Midweek, and you're starting to feel that maybe it isn't going to happen because of the just the sheer pilot. But there was that moment. Let's just talk a bit about kind of that team that Birkenshaw built, you know, through the 70s, you know, into the 80s. What was that like, you know, we touched on, you know, Ricky and Ozzy joining, which is kind of outside of our period of reference here, because we're doing an 80s, well, that was 78, wasn't it? So, but, you know, what was it like seeing that team emerge be built together? You know, what were the milestones? What were you to say with the key moments in that team coming together? It's very interesting. I think it's, and it's almost impossible to imagine this now with the coverage a football has and the way things are reported. But really, things didn't get reported with the same veracity or dimension or concentration that they do now. So the assembly of those teams was sort of just fairly much like it happened. You sort of took it for granted in a way. But I will say that we did, when we made a transfer, we certainly seemed to make a good splash of it. And I do remember Crooks and Archibald together as a transfer, as a bit of transfer business, CNA, as they were called, which again, I'm showing my age, there was once a clothing chain called CNA, that was really big in Britain. You know, it felt sexy again. You know, these two were, you know, again, it was sort of, I don't know, it was, I don't think of all the great rock duos that were around. I don't know. I mean, it just, they felt rock and roll. You know, you had Archibald, who was a grumpy sort of like grump, a grump, right? You know, Garth Crooks was very bubbly and very dynamic as a player, who was a pocket rocket player, who's really just worked so well. But in terms of... Yeah, and Rob has joined that year as well, didn't he, I think? Is that right, Garth? From Weymouth, he did, but that's the point, isn't it? He came in and there wasn't any fanfare about it. We just signed him. Nobody knew about him. We weren't reading much about him. It's like, oh, we signed this guy for 40 grand from Weymouth. Oh, great. Okay. And he turned out to be just, well, I called him a dreadnought. I mean, he was just like, he was actually an incredible player. But yeah, I mean, so it was, I think maybe you took it for granted. Maybe that's the difference, you know? Yeah, I was looking today and looking at the 81 cup final team, Paul Miller and Graham Roberts were both 21 years old when they played in that, as a centre-half parent. You just, I mean, of course, when you're little, you think everyone's grown men, don't you? When to have a parent at 21 years old is... And Chris Hooten wouldn't have been about the same age as well. It's just like remarkable, really. I mean, maybe that's why, yeah, maybe that's why it became a bit, maybe they were young and that's maybe why it became a bit difficult for us to win the league. Because you do need a kind of, I mean, Liverpool probably had your Hansons and your Tomsons and Lawrenceons and that kind of thing. Maybe you needed a real stellar centre-half partnership to maybe just win those games, you know, by just by being so strong defensively. And I think Robbo definitely was a player massively capable of that. But I think, what are our other players then? Like John Lacey and... Like, still my character would have been about... O'Reilly, Gary O'Reilly was here around by then? Yeah, yeah. Lacey and McAllister would have been there. So, of course, C. Parliament could have filled in anyway. But for the way, I see the chronology of it, it sort of defies what you think about the building for the back. It was like, the team was built around the midfield three, so it's Hoddle V, or an R.D. list. And then they sort of added the two defenders in there, but we couldn't score any goals, could we? So, Jerry Armstrong, Chris Jones couldn't score any goals. So, Crookson Archibald then came in. And then the problem was the goalkeeper. They looked like we had Kendall, we had Dane to meet Alexis in kind of neither of them were outstanding. So, it wasn't until Ray Clemens came in that that felt like the final piece of the jigsaw. But, Steph, my question for you on milestones is there's one particular game that I think was probably the catalyst for all the Cup successes. And that was the victory at Old Trafford in 1980. But famously, when Alexis went off and Hoddle went in goal, and we won one little extra time with Ozzie. But from reading quite a few of the players accounts, and they felt that was the one where they really believed that they could go on. And, albeit, we got beaten by Liverpool in I think in the sixth round that year. But that was the year before. We won the FA Cup for the first time, and then of course, we won it again the following year and the UEFA Cup. But, what do you remember about that when at Old Trafford? Did that, at the time, feel like it was going to be quite seminal? Well, it was a great goal. Number one. And number two, you know, whenever you've got a win at Old Trafford, it was both a rare and enjoyable experience. Yeah, it was a big game, massive game. It's interesting that you said that, you know, the players at that time felt that was a catalyst. I never saw that. I thought the catalytic moment was truly when Crooks and Archibald came in, and immediately, that first game of the season, they're not even for ice at home to know when you just saw immediately things were going to be different because of the way these two played off each other. And there was a dynamism that was coming from Hooten, and obviously, you had Hoddle. So maybe if they're saying that, so be it. But I don't remember anyone around me thinking, oh, we're going to win the Cup next year because we won at Old Trafford. I've got to be honest. But it was a big win. But it's really hard to overstate the importance of those two coming in as strikers, really. So they're always destined to be a partnership, Steph. Would they have worked without each other, do you think? It's a great question. It's a great question. I think Mark Falco made Crook's work if Archie wasn't around. But there again, Archie went on and, you know, I mean, Archie played really well at Barcelona, right? So it's, you know, I think they were both excellent players. And yeah, it's a good question. It would be really, really interesting to know the kind of scouting behind that and choosing those two players because now it's so, so scientific in that to bring two players together. And it just looks like, you know, a match made in heaven from the office is just remarkable. I'm not quite sure if there's other examples of that with other clubs around those, that kind of era. I mean, again, and this is all speculation, right? And all sort of memory versus speculation. I mean, if you had, when you have a player like Hoddle, who can, who can pass through the lines and split defenses and you've got players fast as golf crooks was, Crook's was incredibly fast over a short distance. I mean, his acceleration was incredible over a short distance. So, I mean, you know, Burke, he must have been looking and seeing, oh, fancy a bit of that, you know what I mean? Archibald, yes, I'd love to know the scouting behind Archibald, because he was an odd, he was odd. He sort of slumped around, didn't always look like he was involved. But he could score all sorts of goals. Again, you know, he was a scrapper, and he was also occasionally a worldly guy. So the scouting there would have been very, very interesting, I agree. But yeah, let's move on to our own industry in this period. So because Scholar took over from Richardson and Wale, what did that feel like at the time? Did it feel like, because we're talking about the kind of period here where we get the first commercialization of football, really, don't we? You know, we talked about, you know, the club being listed on the PLC, you were talking earlier on, Steph, about, you know, you're only you're replicating in 8081, but you know, that really ramps up during this period. And obviously Scholar loved to kind of dabble in the business side of the game. How did that feel when that happened? With much less media around as it was, you didn't maybe, and also being a younger person, I probably didn't understand the sheer levels or the ramifications of it. I mean, what really sort of got me suspicious was that famous quote that's attributed to Birkinshaw, the night after, oh, that one day you wake up, which, by the way, is another fantastic memory talk about sometime. You know, there used to be a football club over there. Now, as I understand, it was attributed to him. He was actually agreeing with something a journalist had said to him. I think a journalist was quoting a Frank Sinatra song, I don't know, as the word goes, and the wording was somewhat similar in the title. And Birkinshaw said, yeah, I agree. That's what it feels like. But for Birkinshaw to signal his discontent, I mean, that's the first time as a football fan, I'm seeing a manager distanced themselves from the owners. Sadly, something that was to become rather more prevalent in our lives. So that woke me up a bit, but I didn't really understand why at the time, I must admit. Do we think Scholar and Birkinshaw were ever likely to be able to work together? Gareth, what do you think? Yeah, I mean, I'm breathing through everything, Scholar's book that he wrote just after he'd left the club in the early '90s at the moment. And I mean, he was accused by some of the players of being, I think like I said, he was a Europhile, that he was obsessed with what was happening on the continent. I think in the way that the players were scouted. So, I mean, yeah, if you talk about how maybe Archibald and Crookes were scouted from what's spoken, and Aberdeen would have been, well, part of Mozier and Ricky, about as exotic or about as far-flung as you might have looked for a player at the time. But I think Scholar, because he lived in Monaco at the time, would have been very aware of what was happening in football, particularly in France, which was one of the pioneering countries, I guess, in the early '80s. So it felt like there was probably a bit of friction there. I guess I've got to be aware that when I complain now about games being played on Sunday lunch times and Monday evenings and the moment that we're going to wake at a waltz, because it will sell a few more shirts, it probably all comes back down to someone like Irving Scholar, who was a real pioneer at the time. He was way ahead of everybody else in the early '80s when he came in. I mean, I guess the club floating on the stock exchanges is the headline, but it's things like we were one of the first teams to have a shirt sponsor on the front of our shirts. He obviously inherited the West End that had the boxes. He then went, you know, a step too far by wanting to put boxes in the East End, because he knew that that was where the money and the income was coming from. Yeah, I mean, it's probably worth saying, isn't it, that part of what brought him in was that redevelopment at the West End, which overran. And I think the costs rose from nearly doubled from three and a half million to six million. And the point that Scholar bought into the club, we had the largest debts of any club in English football. I think it was five million. And he did a rights issue, which brought in a million pounds and brought that down. And then, obviously, you've got the listing at the point where listed the club's valued at nine million pounds. So, it's a really interesting period through here. And I think we were saying before we recorded, you can draw a straight line between some of the stuff that's going on here and what happened with Alan Sugar in the '90s, where we're instrumental in Sky getting the TV deal and the formation of the Premier League and everything. And kind of that businessification of football, we're at the heart of it in English football, aren't we? We've got to make this point. I mean, we talk about Birkin Shore and Scholar. I mean, you have to look at personalities involved as well, two very different types of people. You have to, I'm sorry about this. There's something going on out there. Maybe these dogs are, there's some really, sorry about the dogs out there, Champs. Going back to this, look, very different people. And we were scouting abroad. I mean, obviously, we'd gone to the World Cup and pulled off that double signing. So, I don't think it was a case of not being maybe as advanced in the football sense. I think, again, Keith Birkertur was actually possibly ahead of his time with regards to international football culture. But I think the culture of football in general was where the big clash came here. And you've got an Irving Scholar a fan, right? Let's not forget, Irving Scholar was a huge fan with these enormous ambitions. And you've got Keith Birkin, sure, who did come by his own admission from a working class background and probably a lot more, I don't know, stoic, maybe would be the phrase. I think there must have been a translation issue between the pair of them. And you look back now at the wisdom of age and think, well, I wonder if someone could have sat the pair of them down if they could have dovetailed their relative outlooks in the way that David Dean and Arsen Wenger did. I don't know. But it was definitely nobody brokering that particular point of communication. So it was doomed to failure, wasn't it? Yeah. It's so ricky, you got to say. Yeah, I was going to say, that's probably the modern way, Steph. You would sit down and you can, like, you know, different people get on these days or more chance to get on. Well, hopefully people get on. But in those days, I mean, he was, you know, Keith Birkertur would have his sheep skin on and it's from the North and Scholar was a, you know, he's a stereotypical property developer with the sharp suits really, wasn't he? But no one's going to say, I mean, his way in, I think, was the Weststand split between, um, uh, while in Richardson, because one of them thought the new sound was a good idea and the other one thought it would bankrupt the club or something. And obviously that nearly came to pass. So I'm not quite sure on the timeline with when Birkenshaw was then unhappy, where the financially scholar was under pressure at that point. So Birkenshaw's kind of aspirations and dreams might have been a bit like they are with some other clubs now where you've made some wrong turns or wrong decisions. Uh, you can't necessarily back your manager. I'm not quite sure what the timeline was there, Steph. Was there any kind of rumors around that kind of stuff at the time? Because Birkenshaw, after winning two cups in the UEFA Cup, wants to probably progress onwards. So I think Gareth knows the answer to this. Yeah. Well, I'm just looking at the players that we signed and when we signed them, so after winning the Cup in 81, so Scholar wasn't chairman, then Ray Clemens was our big signing. The following year, 80, 82, Gary Mabbock was our biggest signing. It was what a player from Bristol Rovers. And then in 1983, Gary Stevens from, from Brighton was as big as him. So I guess that, that's telling me that there wasn't a great deal of money to spend either before Scholar or immediately, immediately after. It's probably only when we signed Chris Waddell and Paul Allen in, in 85, when the cast was there. But he said that rights issue had happened by then and the club had been club had been floated. But you also have to remember, this was not an era where squads were particularly revered and you had one substitute. Yeah. I mean, I think the interesting thing on eras, when we talk about this, as a point you've picked up on Gareth, it's about this fitting in with the UK or in the 80s, Thatcher's Prime Minister, you've got massive privatizations going on all over the place of previous kind of state monopolies. And Scholar's approach to Spurs seems quite in line with the mood of the time. Do you think? Yeah. I think so. I think of him and I think of Spurs in that period, it feels like what I would conceive to be, that was Thatcher's Britain, certainly economically. Loads of money being a Spurs fan is probably relevant at this point as well, isn't it? Yeah. I mean, I'm interested in Scholar's essay in his book that one of his biggest regrets is that he went into business with Paul Boberoff. So the pair of them as a pair bought the club. And he said at one point, Boberoff had accumulated these shares and said to Scholar, you can buy him off me, you can do this on your own. Or you can say with me. And Scholar decided against buying the shares of Boberoff. And I mean, clearly reading Scholar's book, he's someone who actually fell out with quite a lot of people. He fell out with Birken Shuri, he fell out with Bob Roth quite badly, and he really throws him under the bus. And we know that you do that on particularly well with Venables at the end of it. I mean, it does read a bit like Alan Partridge's book, Needless to Say I The Last Laugh 13 times when you read through it. But I get the feeling that Scholar probably had the right ideas, but executed him badly. And his background in business was in property. And that doesn't necessarily translate into running a football club. Yeah. I mean, you know, things like buying a share, you know, buying into Hummel and things like that, just seeing. Yeah, that's it. Yeah. I mean, he didn't really have any interest in, oh, I say he calls you an interest in the football clubs. He was a silent partner. He wasn't even on the ball to start with. I mean, really, Bob Roth was the dream ticket for him because he had a track record of floating companies on the private line. So that was the, that was why the pair of them in theory should have, should have worked out. And of course, they then split the clubs because there was a, there was a, there was a football association rolling that clubs couldn't pay dividends to owners, which of course, if you're totally defeats the purpose of being quoted privately. So that's why Tottenham Hotspur PLC was created. And then the football club was a subsidiary with the separate balls underneath that. Sorry, Ricky. Yeah, I mean, I think, I mean, he was definitely a visionary and he had ideas, but it was just the execution of those ideas was quite poor. And sometimes in business, when things are going badly, that's, you will fall out with people because you know, it might turn into a bit of a playing game and that kind of thing. But I just think, but I think his intentions were good. And looking back from like the, from football now, looking back towards that, we can see that he was onto some things that are now, you know, consistent with how modern football is. But also what's consistent is even in the modern game now, it shows how hard it is to run a football club and make a success of it because lots of people make a bad job of it. So yeah, sorry, this story in there, which I think sums this up. So the club now being floated on there, it's on the Stock Exchange, they're there for expected to make good profit. And they promised Paul Bobber for promise to the city that they would make a profit of at least £900,000 in a year. And then one morning Steve Perriman is alerted to the fact that the players haven't been paid their bonus they were expected to get through progressing in Europe. And it was discovered that Bobbrough had, according to scholar anyway, had cut the bonuses because that was going to cut into the profits that they made. So then there was this standoff between the players and the new board about the bonuses that they'd been promised that venture they'd end up going through the PFA until they were reinstated. So you can see where there was the, you know, the friction that I guess working sure would have been caught in the middle of this. But you know, towards the end of his period, you know, we've got a signing players of British records, you know, gas coins coming in the British record, we're spending money. And one thing that occurred to me when we were, I was kind of working with you Gareth on the notes was that, you know, we did the pod before about Spurs in the 90s where we were kind of grumbling about a kind of mediocrity and, you know, how it was a bit of a grind. And it feels to me like that's kind of the hangover from the party, the big party that is the 80s where we've got this kind of glistening football and superstar players and kind of record transfers. And, you know, sugar leaves us at a point, sorry, the scholar leaves us at a point where sugar buys in and then kind of, you know, just cuts spending on everything pretty much in order to focus on what, you know, what he focuses on. And yeah, it does feel like, you know, what we're left with at the end of this is, yeah, just a very, very long hangover. Ricky. Yeah, I say not not forgetting what scholars original exit strategy was, which was the whole Bob Maxwell thing. So of course, you know, we shouldn't forget that. I think, you know, when you look at scholar and what he did, it's just a classic example of a series of decisions that were just, you know, he's running before he can walk. He's got this, he's almost like a mad person who's so excited to just impulsively do things. So a lot of his decisions when you look back seem impulsive. Was there a need to redevelop the stand? Probably. Should there not have been a slightly more due diligence on paying, what was it, nine million quid for two pillars that obstructed people? Most definitely. I mean, you know, there's time and time again, you look through his dealings, we talked about the humble thing, you know, maybe there's a good idea there somewhere, but not when you just impetuously decide you're going to buy the entire fucking company and just, I mean, you know, the impetuousness. So I mean, it's this horrible, when I think of him, I think of a man who intentions were good, but his ego is rampant and knowledge was the football side was non-existent. I mean, it's a fatal combination. And how many clubs around this learn from it? It's why I wonder. Just one final thing on Skoda before we move on. So he claims that Ferguson had agreed to take over and replace Birkenshaw and then re-naked on the deal. And you can't help wonder kind of what our history would have been like if we'd had that Birkenshaw team that, you know, we still got some, you know, really great players and that you've got Ferguson coming in, probably not with the rebuilding job he had at Manionitis, that we're drinking culture to deal with in the same way as some of the other issues that they had. And, you know, what we would have been, you know, if Ferguson had taken over rather than Peter Shrieves. Oh, well, yeah, I'm absolutely. I mean, obviously, they must have had a couple of meetings and Fergie must have thought this bloke's not for me. And you would have to say he was right. He made the right decision, sadly, not the right one by us, but I don't think the two of them would have worked very well together, would they? Well, I mean, interestingly, the other man who was mentioned with us, that's all recommended to score. That summer was all Sanvegan. Wow. As we enter the second half of the decade, so you've got pleats, incredible 86, 87 team, final hurrah, or should it have been the catalyst for better things to follow? What do you think? Well, can I just proceed that because when I was doing my research, you know, I did notice that, like, in that, in that season after Birkenshaw, Peter Shrieves actually accumulated more league points than any of the other 10 years. We've got 77 points that season, which is somewhere above anything else. And I can't really recollect that season as being a, we finished third, but it's just a slack spot for all of us to clear that period of the year. I know this was the year when, I think, famously, we were top of the league about 13 games to go. Nine of them were at home. And then we had that game at home, Weatherton, who were near his challenges. And we were two, one down, and Neville, south, or bowl accounts, made the best save. I think anyone's ever seen live when he tipped a Falco header away. And we ended up falling away at the end of that season and finishing, and finished third, then the year after that. Yeah. And then the year after that, I think it got a bit flat and we finished, we finished 10, I think, what all took a while to settle, didn't he? And then, yeah, he's, Shrieves, moved on after two years and so David Pleat then takes over. But I'm sorry if we rewind in there, but. But I know, I know, pleat, well, and there's very mixed reactions to Pleat. So he could be bombed out by Robertson and Miller, and both of them are incredibly bitter about it, as well. They don't speak highly at all of David Pleat in the way that he managed them. So Pleat obviously wanted to get his own standpoint. As Gary Mabup was coming through, then Richard Goff had come in, but he still had Hoddle, he still had Clemens, Galbin still played a big part, well, we can probably all sing the Jazz and Dave's song to remind us exactly who he's brought back that year, couldn't we? But I mean, Ricky, I know this was, when we did on what was our best ever season, I know you said the '86, '87 was your one, and you spoke about them, didn't you? Well, I think I was just, I mean, I suppose that puts me back to the top of the glory hunting list, because, you know, I was born when we started winning cups, and then I started to go in a season where we were like, look formidable. And I mean, that's, you know, that's not necessarily what, but I suppose that's what drew me to the ground war, in other words, that's why I kind of disobeyed anything anyone was going to say to me, and I was going to start going, because I had started to watch, you know, us that season, and Clive Allen was just from, you know, his form was just off the charts, and it just drew me in really, and Pleat, I think once again, it was just like a team formed out of, we still had a HODL and WODL obviously, but a team just formed out of, you know, we had Paul Allen, and then Gough was a massive sign in what, you know, for a sense, I mean, another, I have a brilliant piece of scouting, but to have another player come in and hit the ground running like that, Richard Gough was formidable, made a great, and that's maybe what I'm saying before, about having a real strong partnership, and him and Mabbit make a great partnership, and then, of course, we play 451 with Clive Allen just being, you know, and Clive Allen wasn't a real all-round kind of striker, but he was just that season, he was just, everything he touched went in the net, I think, and it was just, you know, it wasn't like a big person, it wasn't a physical person, but he just had his confidence of riding so high that year, and then I think we, and then we will Steve Hodge, I think, to play on the left side, and he was another great fit for that kind of team, he mirrored well with Paul Allen on the other side, but it was, I don't know, was it, I was thinking back, is that, were we, a lot of other teams still stuck in 442, was David Pleat or something different here? It was unusual to be playing a five man midfield and alone striker at that time, yes, certainly. Yeah, but I always had that impression of a Pleat that he was like massively knowledgeable, and he seemed a student of the game, and whenever I would listen to him, I meant, obviously, you know, I wasn't a player for him, like Miller and Roberts were, so I just always thought he spoke quite, you know, articulate when he's spoken, and seems to absolutely know his stuff, yeah, Steph. I just wonder if we've sort of half answered your question already, I mean, I think we're again, we've got this incredible side, we've got a progressive to set of tactics, but we've also got a football club on the business side that's running before it can war, that doesn't quite know what he's doing maybe, and so there's a naivety there, and then there's no congruence between the two, fact that between the two areas, and maybe that's why, I mean, I think it should have been the catalyst for better things, I mean, my word, but, you know. And of course, yeah, Pleat doesn't leave the club for football reasons, so, you know, it is cut off early, I think, probably, and, you know, then you've got Venables coming in, and Venables takes a while to settle really, doesn't they? Or is Teams takes a while to settle? Yeah, well, I mean, I suppose that's the big point about there after that 87 cut final, as we all, as I think it's very unexpected, Glenn Hoddle left, partly because I think he was missing European football, we didn't appreciate it anyway, did he? He wouldn't get in the England team, and, yeah, English clubs were banned from Europe at that point as well, and then we had there, it was the dying embers of Aussie and Ray Clemens as well in 87, too, and then Richard Gough left for personal reasons when he moved back up to Scotland, so that team, or at least the, sort of the core of that team, and of course, Perriman had gone a couple of years before that as well, was kind of ripped out a little bit. Good to say you brought me in beautifully into the next question, which was, you know, how, how will be affected by the European ban of English clubs, which started in 1985 after, after Highsell, and, you know, we would qualify for the UEFA, UEFA Cup in '85, '86, '87, '88, and although it's outside of our range of periods, we're talking about here in 1990 and '91, you know, you said about Hoddle leaving for Monaco, you know, Waddle left, you know, Clive Allen went to Bordeaux, so, you know, we've got lots of key players there going to clubs playing in Europe, and Graham Roberts went to Rangers, didn't he? So, again, you know, I think, again, for younger listeners, it'd be quite odd for them to think about kind of, you got a fair chunk of the England squad at that moment playing at Glasgow Rangers because they were in Europe, and, you know, it seems, it's going to seem unusual to people who weren't there at the time, but how much do you think it affected us, Steph? I mean, again, we've got the continentally-minded scholar who's got all these, you know, ideas to progress the club in a business sense, you know, and suddenly, you know, a lot of those avenues off the pitch would have been cut off by this European ban. Football, in general, suddenly started to get beaten with a pretty heavy stick because of the Hooliganism rap, so on and so forth, and then as you just very clearly articulated, we lost some very good players for that. I mean, it absolutely affected us. It affected, I think there's only one other club I can think of who had affected us in the same sense, and that was Everton. I think the two of us were heavily affected by this, but even still, despite that, you know, we go back to the core of what this side could have, you know, it could and should have been developed into and what we should have done as a club going further. Gareth? Yeah, I just think it's point of the threat that because there are people who would have lived through this area would be throwing their phones or their radios about the moment. We haven't really talked about the '84 UEFA Cup win, and that obviously really put us on the map. For all accounts, anyone there was an absolutely incredible night to win that on penalties with with Tony Parks. But Spurs were a European, I don't know whether we were quite a European giant in some way that Liverpool or Ryan Woodrid were, but so much about Spurs and what we were was about being in Europe. I mean, Bill Nicholson famously said, didn't he Spurs without Europe? You know, nothing. So it just felt like it was a huge part of us. It was a huge part of our DNA. We were successful with one of UEFA Cup in '72, the Cupwinners Cup 63, UEFA Cup 84. It was kind of our thing to go in and do well and to dominate. I think those European tournaments in the 70s and 80s also all had a little more parody than they have now. The European Cup was obviously the big one, but the Cupwinners Cup, as it was, was considered a very prestigious trophy, as was the UEFA Cup. They all had a real resonance historically, and absolutely. I mean, you talk about establishing as a European club. I was mentioning before we recorded, I mean, watching Croiff and Hoddle face off in the UEFA Cup was an incredible memory. Yes, we were a European club of great history and prominent too. I mean, first club to win a European trophy for the first British club. So, yeah, and you talked about that UEFA Cup in '84. I mean, yeah, it was a phenomenal night. I mean, I was there and the thing I've talked about it before on this part, and there'll be other times I will talk about it more. So yes, absolutely. We were 100% a European club and recognised as such. So a couple of kind of fun, lighter questions just to wrap us up on this. So there's a which players typify 80 Spurs for you. I mean, we've mentioned some. So maybe, you know, I think we're all going to pull out Hoddle. We're all going to pull out, you know, some of these other names that we've talked about. Who typifies 80 Spurs for you? I'm going to go with Chris Hooten to me was just wonderful. He was attack-minded, full of flair, classy on the ball, and classy off it. He was just so typical early 80s taught them to me, and he stood for so much. So I'm going to go for Chris Hooten, who I will tell you for many years was actually during those times my favourite player. I mean, when he scored a couple of times against Arsenal in that five-nil win in '83, I was just, that's such a great thing. I'm so happy for him to get some spotlight there, you know? But yeah, Ricky? I think, for me, I'm not sure why, but it just stands out to me all the time. It's just Steve Paramount really, because he just felt like when you're growing up through, you know, the history of the club, and you just researched that knowing when you're younger, then you're just kind of your mind in that spot all the time. You know, all the rabbit holes were taught them, and he just felt like Mr Tottenham to me. And yeah, every time he just felt like he, it was the kind of that first typified, that one club man, you know, he's just, the club meant everything to him. And, you know, just a solid consistent, always there, a great captain. I mean, I felt actually a bit sorry for him, because obviously missed out on the UEFA Cup final, being captain that night. But yeah, him for me. I mean, this other, you know, obviously, the hodles. I think, I think, I think Mabbitt later on as well is definitely, I suppose you might fall into a similar category to Parham in the sense that, you know, is that kind of person you want represent in your club. So, it just goes just to avoid renaming players. Mickey has it to me all stands incredibly, so it's incredibly '80s. Chris Wardle, I think, does as well. And then I was just for the sort of Geordi trio, although he played into the '90s, and he's perhaps his best moment for us was in the '90s, by the '80s. But Gazer, he was in that Premier League era, which, of course, the '80s, you know, was, just felt like they were all just what Spurs should be about, those sort of mercurial midfield talents that really came to prominence and did well in the '80s. Those are the, I'm a Christian, by the way, he was the only player that played for us in every calendar year of the '80s. So, he actually fits the form, fits the question. I mean, Huddle, yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. It'll be Ozzy for me. I mean, he was my favourite player growing up. I think, you know, we've already touched on kind of the importance he had. Ozzy made it as feel different to other clubs to me as a kid, having someone like that at the club, and I love that. I've got a question for you on that, and I think this is an interesting one for all of us. When you watched Ozzy in the early '80s, or when you watched him a little later, maybe, did you fully appreciate the football where he was? Because I think for a lot of us, we loved watching him, and we loved watching his industrious performance, but I don't know how many, I'd speak for myself. I don't think I truly appreciated what a wonderful player he was in the sense of how he knitted things together until I was a little older. You know, that mantle was taken, obviously, by the visuals of Glenn and everyone. I don't think I did, given the age I was at the time, and my understanding of the game. So I wouldn't have done, but I've watched him plenty. I should have been a little less subject, not saying calling you out. I'm saying calling us all out, really. I mean, he was a player who was a little ahead of his time, almost, don't you think? No, absolutely. I've watched him plenty since I've been older, and yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Phenomenal player, and you're so instrumental in allowing the player players to do their thing whilst also being actually a really good technical player. Can I just also, I know this isn't part of the question, but I do have to just say this, Mark Falco is absolutely, hugely, sorely underrated, and was at the time by us. We underrated him severely. His scoring record for us is actually brilliant, and he was a forward of incredible attributes. He could be a big man, and he also had great touch to quote cliches, but very underrated forward. Yes, I know. I think that's the second time on this pod. We've managed to fit that in. I should also say, actually, that could teenage me was very, very excited about Nika Klaassen. Yeah, I get that. Yeah. So, again, I think maybe it's just foreign signings, actually, that, or foreign players, not being so common at the time, but... You haven't mentioned Pat Vanden Howin quite the same glowing terms, but... Finally, we're speaking about, so on the pitch here, so what's your best and worst moments of the 80s? Ricky, you can kick us off. Best moment is, of course, is tough, this is tough. I tell you, there's one moment that is really telling, and it all's those kind of like reflects kind of the rest of my Tottenham thing is, but the first moment where I had that really thought my heroes were going to let me down, and I felt sick to the stomach. But the first time I ever something pulled me through that was the deflective shot of Hutchison's back in that 81 cut point, or when Hoddle took the free kick, because I was thinking time, I'm thinking time's running out, time's running out, and that was so young, but I had that first moment of thinking, this isn't going to happen for me, this isn't going to happen for me, and when that deflecting went in, and of course it was so unhoddled, because usually he'll gracefully curl it in the top corner himself, but I didn't care, I just thought, we've got another chance, we've got another chance, and of course it led on to probably the greatest moment, which is Ricky's winner in the replay really, I think, along with, you know, without nominating too many, along obviously with Tony Parks running along the older, with his arms aloft, with that penalty save in the UA for Cup Final, I think they're mine, and of course that's from a young person's viewpoint as well, I mean, when I'm actually going to the game, you know, I think Hoddle's Golgens Oxford probably lives in the memory well, that's almost like a hero, just kind of showing he's a hero, and an absolute magician just part in the ways of Oxford's defence, almost in a kind of poetic way, yeah. There's only so many times you're going to see a goal that people are talking about in early 40 years, yeah, 40 years later. Yeah, exactly, yeah. Yeah. Look, as a first-hand experience Hoddle, I've got a pretty small sample slice to pick from, so it's probably when Paul Stewart saw twice with the orange ball at Hillsboro on a snowy pitch that was live on ITV's, the big match is about all over, it's the first one, but I've got to say, having gone back to the research, the AT81 season, I've seen the footage of that game plenty of times in the past, maybe a bit more abstract, but I think I was a bit more emotionally invested this time, and to when Crookes got there equalised, we're just understanding the state of the game that point, it brought me out in goosebumps watching that, that's something that happened when I would only have been four months old, first time around, so I would say that one, and for the ripple effect that had, of course, to them, Ricky's really as gold becomes what it was, do we do worse ones as well? Yeah, go and do worse ones as well. So, again, not my personal experience, but I can't believe they'll be much worse than getting beat by a port vial 2-1 in the FA Cup, fourth round in 1988, that must have been pretty bleak. I still hold a grudge against them, Steph. I mean, this could go on a long time, I've talked about the semi-final goal, Garth Crookes' goal, that's brilliant, I think, just to give you a little bit, something you might not have noticed in the replay of that game Gareth, and I'll tell you firsthand, we all saw it, because I was right in line, I was lower tier for the 81 Cup Final replay. Tommy Keaton had hand, but clearly, hand-balled. I think, in my memory, only a couple of minutes before, in my memory, and we've been screaming about that, and at that moment, I had wondered if it was going to be our night, I just didn't know if it was going to be. Again, I've said this before in this pod, I'll say it again, the levels of electricity I felt when Ricky Via School, that winner, I can't even fully form the memory, it's the feeling I have when I think about it. Everything went explosively white, and everything went silent for a minute, and then there was just this roar, and then I remember watching him, you're watching him through the net, tearing away and running, and it was, I mean, I'm goose bumping now, thinking about it, it was just incredible, and it did surpass the UEFA Cup Final, which was also a great memory, but it surpassed it, because it was such a... The worst moment was bending down to pick up my flag, having not waved it for 87 or whatever, 85 minutes at the League Cup Final that season. We were one-nil up, Archie had just missed a glorious chance to put two-nil up. I bent down to pick that flag up, and I heard the roar, and Liverpool equalised, and bought you two extra time, and I felt sick. I felt sick. I felt sick. I remember it was horrible. Not bad though. We're talking about best moments. Ricky's running off Hotels Gold against Oxford, and you've got Ricky Via's goal in the FA Cup 81 replay. There's two kind of iconic, truly iconic Spurs goals, aren't they, that really... In show reels in 50 years time, they'll still be playing those ones, so yeah, not bad ones to have. Mine are going to be a little bit less specific. My best one, I think Clive Allen's 49 goal season just felt massive to me as a kid, and just the whole of that season, and the flip to that is the 87 Cup Final is probably the first time that football really broke my heart, and it being mabot as well, it just, I think, kind of the build-up to that, and I've got very great collections of 81 and 82, and certainly kind of the fuss around those FA Cup Finals, and I kind of bought, obviously at that time, we've won the Cup the most times of any English club, and I'd kind of bought into all of that, and I thought it's Coventry, it's a foregone conclusion, we're going to win the Cup. And then for that not to happen, yeah, it's the first time that Spurs really broke my heart. There's a pod there somewhere in that last sentence. There's three other things I'm just going to shout out, just as bullet points here, and people, if they want to find out more, they can look them up here, but they're probably worthy of a mention if it's going to be about 80s Spurs, so one, Hoddle's goal against Watford. I was there, I was there, amazing, fucking brilliant, brilliant, brilliant goal, oh my god, oh, incredible. I'm obviously married on her in a Spurs shirt, what, two months before that the hand of God goal, and then if I say Mrs. Rigglington, does that mean anything to you guys? You see, I probably should have brought this up in the Scala one, so, the Spurs, or Skollipade Sarti and Sarti, to go and do a big piece around sort of branding around the early 80s, and they put an advert on national television about going to watch Spurs play, and it was sent around this character called Mrs. Rigglington, who, and really, I think the track line of it was, you're not live unless you're actually at the game, so it was to attract people to go to a game, but I think it was the first lonely club that actually had a TV commercial that would have gone out on national television in the UK to go watch it. I think it went out, we ended up with her running down the tunnel to come out. On one of these testimonial, I can really recommend a podcast or an episode of podcasts, so the podcast was called Giant, and the episode is called We're Married on the Play for Spurs, it's only short, it's only about half an hour long, lots of interviews with people who played that night, and it's a really, really good, enjoyable lesson, so highly recommend it if you've never heard it before. Thanks, Vlad, that was fun, I enjoyed that. Can we now speak for another two hours about so many other great memories of this era? Yeah, it's a great decade. I'm going to pause your mic while I do the outro, and then... Thanks, mate. Chatter way to your heart's content, so anyway, we'll be back next week with some actual football to talk about, so we play hearts on Wednesday night and QPR on Saturday, so we're going to be discussing those games and looking for clues to what to expect for the season ahead. Thanks for joining us, and we'll see you next week. [Music] [Music] You