The Game Is About Glory (Spurs Podcast)
Who Is Running Spurs Transfer Window?
Milo and Steff get into how the structure of our backroom staff has changed and what it means for transfer activities, we'll take a peek at the Euros so far, and report back on the week that was for N17 related news.
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- Duration:
- 59m
- Broadcast on:
- 23 Jun 2024
- Audio Format:
- mp3
I'm your host, Steph, and joining me once again, mate, Milo, it's us, how are you? Yeah, all right, mate, just the two of us again. Yeah, it's of crooks in Archibald, or Cain and Son, or Laurel and Hardy. Laurel and Hardy. So who would we be? Rem will be back with us next week, so people who are fed up of our voices can have a third voice next week. There we go, there we go. I like to think there's a little bit of Cain and Son in there, good interchange when we both hit the net often, but is that a little bit too, is that a little bit too egregiously egotistical? I'll go with it. Excellent. Just so as I move on with the shows, are you kidding me? Yeah, that's right. All right, okay. Well, let's move on. Hey, we'll start with the week that was, as we are doing this summer, and sadly, I've got to open with a really, this is terrible, terrible news. You actually alerted me to this, mate. We learned on Wednesday evening that former player, Nabil Benalib, has been hospitalized with what his club, Lille, are calling an illness, but unconfirmed reports online are saying was a heart attack. We wish Nabil the speediest and fullest of recoveries, and hope to see him on a football field again very soon. I think we've both discussed him in a season before on this pod, and I think we both firmly came out in favor of him as a player and both really liked him, and there's a shame it couldn't work out with us, but let's hope he gets back and playing soon. Yeah, absolutely. Last week, we spoke about Rodrigo Bentonkur's idiotic racist comment on Uruguay and TV. Bentonkur's subsequent issued an apology to Sunny, which drew criticism because it failed to address the wider offense caused to East Asians and Koreans in particular. On Thursday, Sunny issued a statement on Instagram where he said that he had spoken to Bentonkur and that Bentonkur knows what he'd made a mistake and had apologized to him, which Sunny had accepted. The club followed this up with a statement saying that all players will take part in diversity and equality and inclusion and learning. And then on Saturday, Bentonkurished a further statement which said, "I would like to communicate to all fans and everyone who follows us that after my interview where I refer to Sun and no one else I've spoken to him and logically given a deep friendship, he understands it was only an unfortunate misunderstanding, all has been clarified and sold with my friend. If someone felt offended because of my words, through this media tool, I would like to offer my sincere apologies, but I would also like you to know that never, never I refer to anyone else, only to Sun and for that reason, I've never had the intention to offend directly or indirectly anyone. A big hug and all my respect to everyone. It's me again. I've cut in because you've got a double here. I've got a double. I've got a double. A double, a double. Brilliant. Go for it. This one's a monster as well. At the Premier League fixture list for 2024-25 season, we're released this week. We start the season away at Leicester on Monday, the 19th of August, with Everton up at home next and then Newcastle away. There's a fair chance that the Everton Newcastle Games could get moved, so they'll be on the telly. The first North London derby is our fourth game, it's at home on Saturday the 14th of September, which is immediately after the autumn international break. Games after our Thursday night Europe Elite get fixtures, Manchester United away, Brighton away, Palace away, Ipswich at home, Fulham at home, Southampton away, Leicester at home and Brentford away. We're a way to Forest on Boxing Day, it's the third year on a row that we've been away on Boxing Day and there's no game schedule for New Year's Day, but we have Newcastle at home on Saturday the 4th of January. Our last three games of the season are Palace at home, Villar away and we finish with Brighton at home. That's our first home game on the last day of the season for six years and so that last time we had it was the first season at the New Stadium. The big fixtures looked to be reasonably evenly spread out at the moment, with no nightmare runs like we had towards the end of last season and no back-to-back games against top six sides. We've got Arsenal away in January and our first game against Chelsea is in December. What do you think Steph? Happy with it? Yeah, I mean look it seemed like a kind fixture list in terms of those runs you were talking about but I must admit I take a rather more saying I view of all these things which is you have to play everyone twice and you have to beat everyone twice, so I'm not too sure how important the runs of amendums are. It's hard to say isn't it because you just don't know who's going to come through and who isn't. But on paper, proverbial on paper, it looks a little kinder than usual. Yeah, certainly kind of the season just gone. I think the problem with those tough games back-to-back is people start drawing a narrative from don't they? You could lose those games anyway but if they're spread out then people don't see a pattern. Yeah. How do you feel about starting the season on a Monday night so we're last to play that weekend? I think it's a little odd actually, I mean to be honest I think it's strange, I mean you always think the opening game of the season, all the cliches, the smell of fresh cut grass and all this business, right? But we're not going to be having any of that, you might do but it'll be with the evening air. It's a little untypical, a little uncomfortable, I suppose the plus side is it's an extra three days' risk to get over any injuries that we've had but I can't say I'm delighted about it, I've got to be honest. It's another three days' risk to bring some more players in isn't it? Ah. There we are. Before the winksy derby. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Before the moment where everyone says, "Should have kept him." Oh dear. How'd it be? How'd it be? That's the fix. It'll probably just be, and that's only because I've had an extra lemon juice squeezed in my tea that night but speaking of fictionalists and all that pertains to it, you know, let's be honest. The news that the club have increased ticket prices with the second season of succession shouldn't really have come as the biggest surprise I don't think but they are doing so. They're slapping six quid on top of your category A tickets and an extra quid on your category B and C tickets. That means that to see Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool, Man City, Manchester United and Newcastle United, which are our category A matches, will now cost between £71 and £109 for adults. Between £35 and £50 and £44 and £50 for senior and junior concessions and for young adults, it'll be between £53, £50 and £67. Category B games will be Aston Villa, Brentford, Brighton and Hove Albion, Crystal Palace, Everton, Fulham, Notz Forest, West Ham United and Wolverhampton Wanderers. That cost will be between £49 and £96 for adults, £24.50 and £32.50 for concessions and young adults between £24.50 and £32.50 and if you've still got your pen and paper out and are still writing this down, let me tell you what the categories C games are going to be. Bournemouth, Ipswich Town, Leicester City and Southampton, those are going to cost between £30 and £81 for adults, Crikey, £19 and £27.50 for concessions and £28.50 to £41.50 for young adults. The Trust have had a bit of a moan about it, but I can't actually see the club shaking in their chairs at that one, can we? Especially when they fail to turn up to their own protest over the same thing last season. Well, I sort of answered the question I'm now going to ask for myself Milo, but I pose it to you. Were you surprised by this news? No, I wasn't surprised by this news, especially after season tickets also went up. I think what I am surprised is that their class and Newcastle is a category A game. Yeah, I was about to say that it's a chicken. But arguably you would say that Villa or West Ham, a bigger game, comparable games, I find that puzzling. Presumably that's based on Newcastle's league performance the season before last, is it? Who knows? I don't know. But being that Villa in the Champions League and Newcastle I may certainly not, I would agree with you. And I also have to say, I think the club missed a massive PR chance here. They could have actually won a whole bunch of goodwill if they'd just put Arsenal in the category C games. Fancy that, Arsenal category C game, that would have been wonderful, wouldn't it? Well, that means you'd have to take, you'd have to say one of the category C games there and put it in the in the A game. So what you're going for? Bournemouth Ipswich, South Coast biggest club. Harry Winx is Leicester City game in their category A's above Arsenal at this point, if only just for the PR value, but there we go, another one that won't have the club shaking in their chairs. I can tell you another idea that's going to not go anywhere. Get us out of this tomfoolery of my suggestions. Well, let's have a quick chat about the Euros. You've been watching? I have managed to start catching up after missing the first few days because I was away working. I would say just with delayed recording tonight because we had the decider in Germany, Scotland's group. So I think we managed to watch different games, didn't we? We did. You waited 100 minutes for a goal, didn't you? Yes. I watched Scotland Hungry. Yeah. Yeah, and I watched Germany, Switzerland, which it was good, Switzerland were very good and looked like they were going to win it until at a time and when Germany got one back. So it was a draw. Germany finished top of the group. Let me ask you this about Switzerland. I mean, every year, I mean, you know, every couple of years, you know, when the Swiss pop up at an international tournament, we all look and we all think, "Ah, that's sort of a gimme." But it never is. They're always very, very competent, if not good. They always look like they can go, you know, further than anyone thinks they can. Are we seeing the same again? Are we underestimating them? I think that's on the commentary that I didn't make a note of it and I was only half paying attention. But I think they said it's the sixth tournament of succession or Euro, it's not a succession where they've got out of the groups, which is pretty impressive, pretty consistent, isn't it? I've got to be honest with you. During the game, when it looked like Germany were going to finish second in their group, I was looking at how the fixtures played out and if England, and this is going to age like milk, isn't it? When anyone listens to this on Wednesday morning, but if England will win their group, and then Germany will finish second, then I think we will do to play them in the quarter finals. If we both countries have won their knockouts all the way through, whereas now I think we can't play. If England will win their group, then we can't face Germany to the final, I think. But yeah, like I said, if you listen to this on Wednesday morning or after, ignore what I've just said, because it's properly irrelevant. My favourite game so far, Steph? Yeah, just before we get to that, I just do have to mention the Scotland Hungary game was the most nationwide, as a championship game, I think I've seen in European finals competition forever. That's second half. The last 25 minutes, including the 10 minutes of extra time of that second half, unbelievable. It was the tactics out the window. It was just what the fuck can we make happen here when we don't actually have any real players to make things happen other than sub-slide from Hungary. But it was very entertaining, I have to say. I forget, it's not really been a game that's leapt out to me. I mean, I will tell you that there's more about teams. I mean, I think Spain have been, I mean, they've been unbelievable. I mean, Lameenia Marla and Nico Williams are just, you know, they're extraordinary, aren't they? Especially Yamal. I mean, goodness gracious. There's no excuse for a 16 year old to be that rudely good. A bit better than you were at 16, is he? What's that? A bit better than you were at 16 or you were equivalent, but just no one spotted you. I should probably, I'll concede that. I'll concede that as probably being factually accurate. Nico Williams, though, I mean, he's just doing nothing but putting himself even deeper in the shot window. I mean, really, really good. I've also been impressed. There's a Belgian player who I looked at and this will get into our conversation later. It'd be interesting to see how you would measure up with our new system of looking at players. But Luca Baccio, the Belgian winger who's at Seville, sort of, I looked at him and I thought, you know, he's quite interesting. I mean, he's got a 12 million valuation. He's got a contract with Seville through June 2028, so that might make it a little trickier. But I don't know. I'm starting to look at these games to see if there's, if there's, you know, a bargain to be seen ahead of the game, if you know what I mean, ahead of time. So he's impressed me sort of, you know, but let's face it. The biggest story, I think, for the tournament overall has been age. Pepe at 41 has been brilliant. Vittongen at 37. Oh, I think we should sign that guy for the experience. I don't know if he's been with us a bit. Have we ever looked at him before? Did we ever have him? And then you've got to give it to Ronaldo for actually probably passing for the first time in his career ever and passing up on a goal, but which was an extraordinary thing to see. He actually passed the ball to somebody else. So that was something, but those three older players, especially Pepe, Pepe's performance for Portugal was laying the last game as something else. So that's been the general year of so far. I'm not giving anything to Ronaldo. I can't stand the guy. So, I mean, you say the question around kind of favorite game. So one of my favorites was to say the Czech Republic versus Portugal, where I was really, really hoping that the Czech Republic were going to hold on and deny Portugal. So just they got some fantastic players, but they're just very, very, very well. Well, there's two or three of them that are very, very unlikable. That's true. Ronaldo won't have been one of them. Yes, second one. Come on. Say his name. For Nandezer, you know, Bruno, it's really, really dislikable. He's very unlikable. In terms of our favorite games, the Remain Year Ukraine was fantastic game. And yeah, it was really good. So the Georgia Turkey games, it was really, really enjoyable as well. I missed that one. I really wish I'd seen it. And I think in the group stage, it's those kind of games that I'm a lot more interested in than, you know, I'll get a chance to, you know, I would say he says that after he watched Germany tonight, but I'll get a chance to watch Germany, France, you know, plenty later in the tournament, but I'm not going to see Georgia again, probably, you know, so those are the games I enjoy more. That's great. It's a good tournament, isn't it? But I really felt it today, where it's the first day where we've had just games back to back in the evening. Because I hadn't really paid attention to it. I looked this morning and said, right, OK, what goes your stay? I was like, oh, there's nothing on during the day. I'll have to wait till later, Clark, you know, so yeah, yeah, I mean, you've already mentioned some of the players that caught your eye and say, I agree on Nico Williams and your mile. And I mean, you said about Nico Williams being in a shop window. I'm not so sure, you know, he's, I mean, he's been fantastic. And, you know, I've been banging his drum for a perfect for us for over a year or so now. But, you know, he's at Bilbao and they're kind of the links there to the bass players means that they tend to hold onto players a lot longer. They're very unusual. There's a club like that. So, you know, any kind of new contract in January, I wouldn't be surprised. You know, his brother's there as well. I wouldn't be surprised to be stayed there and carried on, which should be, you know, should be encouraged. That's great. So, yeah. And it's a Miss Yala at Germany has been fantastic as well. And a young player, I'm not sure if you'd spotted him Pierre Emile Heiber. Is it Heiber? I'm not sure. But he kept Declan Rice and Trent Alexander-Arnall completely quiet the other night. And I don't know. That Danish guy. I don't know who's gone in, but they're going to get a fortune for him this summer, I reckon. Danish guy. Yeah. Yeah. Whichever club has got him is definitely he's worth at least 60 million, I would think. Right? It's obviously 60 million. You think so? Yeah. Let's talk him up. Let's talk him up before. I'm happy for him. I'm always happy for him when he, when he, when he, when he, you know, when he shows up like that for his country, because he's an earnest, he is a player and earnest for sure. Yeah. Yeah. Shall we talk about England? Well, let's talk about Radu first for a second. He's had a good tournament so far, isn't he? Well, certainly the first guy in the opening came against Ukraine. He was superb. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He's, yeah, he's looked very good. He's looked very solid. We can, we can talk about England. I mean, I think it's very straightforward. Yeah. And I think I sent this in a group message and I'm going to say it on air. Unfortunately, we have a manager who insists on cutting his state with a, with a soup spoon when he's got a drawer full of, of a world-class steak knives. And I just, you know, he's, he's got to use the utensils properly that he has his disposal. He just cannot deploy the team in the way that it should be deployed. When he has the players, he's just, he's approached to the, he's approached to the game or his meal. I think he's, he's utterly defensive. Yeah. I mean, it's always been like that. I, hasn't it? I mean, I think, you know, he, he's approached to this tournament, isn't any different to how he's approached tournaments previously. I think, you know, it's not pretty, but it's been pretty effective in the past. And I mean, I think there's, there's a lot of issues. I think there are issues with the team. I think the, obviously the balance isn't there. And without any, you know, the left-hand side in particular is an issue. I think our pressing has looked weak and kicking, you know, picked for kicking out long from, from goal is causing us all sorts of problems because balls just come straight back at us. But yeah, I don't know. I mean, I think, yeah, I don't, I, I, like, England fans just, it's, they're like, they're like spurs fans, aren't they? Just love a winch. And I find it all a bit difficult. Wow. Okay. But I mean, honestly, I mean, if you were going, okay. Well, I mean, would you make any changes or are you quite satisfied with the sides he's putting out? Oh, no, no. I mean, I would join us in the winching balcony for a moment and I thought of you and what you would do. Well, I mean, what I would, what I would do, I don't, I'm not sure he'd change mid tournament. I mean, I think the squad is better suited to playing 4-3-3. I think I don't, I think Declan Rice is best as a, as an 8 rather than in a double pivot or at 6 and Trent Alexander Arnold isn't working, is it? So I think the midfield is a problem and there's a problem down the left hand side, which there isn't really a solution to until Luke Shaw is fit. But yeah, I mean, I think, and yeah, the pressing is off. See, I think, I mean, you're right, he's not going to change the 4-3-3 mid tournament and I agree the squad is absolutely tailor made for 4-3-3 right now. You know, you could even make an argument that he would go 3 at the back and be better balanced. But given what he's got, I think the one, I think one of the things he has to do is he has to play Bellingham deeper. He has to allow Bellingham to roam from a deeper position, which will allow Kane a little more space in the areas that he likes to play, which will allow Fode and a little more space in the areas he likes to play and allows you to bring Gordon in on the left, which even though Trippier is compensating on the right footer on the left, he'll at least look up and he'll see a teammate that he understands and he knows the runs he makes, so he might actually be able to find him quicker. I just don't understand playing Phil Fode and, you know, why, and I know we're not going to make this an England and England pod, but I think even within his shape, even within his system, there are things he could do a lot better. Yeah. I mean, I would argue that Fode isn't playing wide. He's starting wide and he's playing in the middle. And the issue with Trippier is that Trippier, because he's right, Fode wants to cut inside, which he's giving teams more time to settle. Massive problem. The thing with tournament football is getting out of the group. Once you get into the knockout rounds, it becomes a bit of a lottery, which is part of the reason why I think he's so conservative, because he wants to play the odds of his favor, which at the moment doesn't look like it's going to happen, but teams can click as the tournament progresses. If England win the group, then there is a kind half of the draw and all tournaments come down to luck at that point, or large chunk of luck and see what you get to. Well, I mean, if it's any comfort for anyone listening, I've stuck solidly and rigidly behind Southgate, Gareth Southgate, that guy, I've stuck rigidly behind him since he was first England manager. This is the first time I felt actually angry at him for his selections, and so you can be rest assured that if anyone is going to be wearing egg on their face at the end of these Euros, it could well be me at this point. But the truth is, if we do anything substantial at this Euros, I don't think it's going to be down to him. It's going to be down to the players themselves. They're going to make it work. There's a whiff of Robson 1990 about this, where the players will rally and sort this out themselves, in spite of the manager, not because of him. And I have to say, I thought Harry Kane's press conference regarding some of the comments from Linnequers and so on and so forth was excellent. I thought it was really, really good. I'm very measured. And it did at least show that the players themselves, they have their acts together. And you're right. If they get out of the group, which they will, of course they will, then this is a unit that you could back to do something, but let's face it, on the pitch, they're not showing it. That's the point. Yeah. And I think your point about saying that if anything happens, it's down to the players. I mean, arguably, large chunk of what's not working at the moment is also down to the players. The players he's putting out are good players. They're not performing. Now, some of the thought that goes to Southgate, obviously, but some of it goes to the players as well. Declan Rice not being able to pass to a man six yards away from him is not Southgate's fault. That's Declan Rice's fault. And giving away the ball so consistently in midfield isn't all Southgate's fault, partially his fault, but not all of his fault. So I think we should have an England pod because I could debate that, but yes, I have the section. I mean, I see the point you're making, but equally, I think, anyway, anyway. I'm not arguing. I'm not arguing. I'm not arguing. He's a good manager. Don't get me wrong, but I think there is, if you look at why he's settled on the start of play, there is logic behind it. You might disagree with it, but there is, you know, it's a decision, it's a calculated decision. Yeah. I'm just hoping that, you know, he believes Trent Alexander Arnold of a role that he's just not really, I mean, he could be ready for it at some point, but it's not. It's not an experiment to get into so late in the season, let alone so early in this tournament. It's too late. Give this poor guy a break, give him a rest, and, you know, maybe he can come back strong playing in his more orthodox position and really do something for us later in the tournament. Who knows? But anyway, all to play for as the cliche goes. Right. Let's get into something which it's of great interest actually is to how we're going to operate this summer in the transfer market, and we're going to get into our new off field setup, which has been titled "Mon's Men" by the man who writes a script around here who happens to be in the studio as well. So we have seen quite a lot of changes to our recruitment and off field setup over the last year, and I have to say that I knew that was a true statement, but when I actually saw these names, wow. Xavier Paratichy, Greta Steinsen, Leonardo Gabbanini, Dean Rastric in Broomfield, Augusto Benito, and Colin Jackson have all left, and Scott Mum obviously came in and he was bringing in some new faces with him. There have been some people switching roles, there's a new structure in place. And look, with the transfer window now open, we're going to look at how this structure is set up and who does what. I'm going to be putting these questions out here, and Milo is going to be filling us in on the info. So we'll start with the head honcho Milo, who is Scott Mundt. Let's define his role for everyone. OK, so there's a new role to the club, so his chief football officer, he's effectively levies number two. He's running the football side of the club, including the first team, women's team and academy's teams, and before he joined us, he joined us from the city football group in China, where he was chief executive and before that he was chief executive of Melbourne City, which is also a city football group club. And then before that, he started his career with the Sydney Organising Committee for the 2000 Olympics, and then he went across to rugby league, and then he had a role with the Australian Football League, so as he rules. Yeah, so basically, levies number two, running the football side, we'd assume that frees up Levy to do kind of financie, Germany stuff, and all of the people under him, or reporting in terms, everyone else will talk about is reporting in to him. So just to clarify for me, actually, essentially his role is as chief communicator between Daniel Levy's office and all the football operations, am I correct? I don't think it's between Levy's office, because I think money's running the show, the football side, largely, I mean, Levy will sign off on transfers, but it's Mundt's gig. Okay, great. Another name that we will be familiar with is Johan Langer. He joined us from Aston Villa last winter. Job description, please. So he's the technical director, basically, Parateeche's replacement. The main difference is that he's reporting in to Mundt, rather than Levy, and his responsibilities, his recruitment, analytics, talent identification across senior and academy teams. And in terms of his career, he started off as a coach in Denmark, where he's assistant manager at Copenhagen, who's there for three years, before he joined Wolves as assistant manager. And then he left Wolves in January, say, well, it's about six months later after they sold back on the manager that was sacked, his coaching team was sacked. And then he did a bit of coaching, more coaching in Denmark. And then he joined Copenhagen as development director, and that role changed as technical director. With them, he became famous for what kind of well-known, built a reputation for signing players up, building them up, setting them all at a profit. Can't imagine what would be appealing to us about that. And then, so after six years in that role at that club, he joined Villa, and we'll come up with kind of what he did at Villa later on. And after a few seasons, his role at Villa changed, and he was moved to global director of football development and international academies, when Monci came in as his replacement at Villa. And I think there's some rumours that he got sidelined a little bit at Villa before that was quite a political club there as well. And yeah, and he joined his last October. So which regime at Villa was he more connected with, managerially, like who was he working with then at that point? Would it have been more the Gerard era or? Sorry, he joined them in 2020, Steph. So in terms of manager, it was Dean Smith at that time. Ah, right. Okay. And then you got Stephen Gerard, and then when Una and Emery came in, that's when Monci came in. Sure. Yeah, that makes sense. What do you expect from him, you know, from what you've seen so far of his work at the club? Well, I mean, if we look at what he did at Villa, so the players that get credited to him are Emmy Martinez, Matty Cash, one of your favourites, Bertrand Troy, Ollie Watkins, Morgan Sanson, and so Ross Barkley are the ones that he gets the credit for there during his time. In terms of kind of with us so far, we've only got the January window, and he only joined a couple of months before that. So there's not a huge, you know, huge amount to go on there. And, you know, we spoke about Dragos and they were on the day, obviously Dragos and it's one of, one of his, you've got Werner coming in, it's one of his, and then Lucas Berkwell as well. And I think apart from Dragos and all of those were not done in the kind of media glare, were they? They were all quite quiet. And the only reason that Dragos and Watson is that his agent was blabbing to everyone all of the time and giving a running commentary, which is something he has to stop since he joined us. His agent is a proper old-school agent, isn't he? Yeah. Well, he's not actually a proper agent either. So on him, he's got another representative, but I think the person who blabs off is someone who's been around him since, you know, since he was young and I'm not quite sure what the arrangement is between the two of them because he's, you know, officially, I think he's got the same, same agent as Fakari, I would believe. So I'm not quite sure what that, you know, what the relationship is. And so the other thing with Lango, so there was some quotes a while ago from the Durgarden sporting director. So that's the club that we bought Lucas Berkwell from. And he was saying, so him and Lango know each other from when Lango was at Copenhagen. And they've got quite a strong relationship. And I think there's some rumours that we might be sending players on loan to Durgarden as well. That would be kind of a growing relationship there. But he was talking about kind of how Lango was very keen on keeping this quiet. We know that Barcelona were also interested and Barcelona's interest was quite public. As wasn't until very, very late. I don't think it was until Bergwell was spotted at our training ground that the news broke, that we had been interested in him. And so Bos Anderson had been saying that we had been negotiating for a good four weeks prior to that. And he kept it very quiet. So I think in terms of how we operate, and I think we're probably seeing this this summer already, aren't we? I mean, there's some speculation. There's always speculation in the press and, you know, on social media. But my suspicion is that probably a lot of those names being linked on actually players that we're interested in. And it's all being kept very quiet. Which again, I think is probably, you know, I mean, it changed a bit when De Paratichi did it. But when he first joined again, he was quite happy talking to the Italian press. It was kind of how he'd worked before. And everything was out in the open, and tell him he told to shut up. Let's get into those mechanics a little later. Let's just carry on going through the people that are at the club because, I mean, there's definitely going to be some angles to how these men work that are going to change how we approach and subsequently mean that all the in the nose right now are coming out of the nose or talking through their noses. But let's look at who Lang has got working with him. We've got Rob McKenzie and Frederick Leath. So come on, a little bit about them, please. Right. OK. So Rob McKenzie is Leonardo Gabonini's replacement. He's head of scouting. So McKenzie manages a team of scouts who look for players, prophosphate, the club's model. So we know all this. He was at the club before. So he was head of a player ID that spurs from February 2015 to August 2016, so he did a year and a half with us. And that was the period when we signed out of Vereld, Kieran Trippia, and Sunny. And I think he's credited quite highly with identifying Sunny and bringing him in. And so after that, he went to work at Darby. He was at OH Lufen in Belgium. And then he joined Villa in August 2020. So he'd been working with Langer there. And again, he's credited there with Watkins, Ollie Watkins, and Martin S at Villa. Frederick Leith is another person who has a background with Langer. And so his title is Head of Football Insight and Strategy. So he's basically a head of data, basically, analytics. And he worked with Langer at Copenhagen and then also joined him at Villa. And he's heading up, say, a new department with a football insight department, which is providing data-driven insights for the club and heading up a data science provision, which previously was pretty limited. You were buying in a lot of that stuff. We're using external consultants for it. So Frederick Leith, he represents sort of almost a unique hire for us in the sense of we've not had someone who's in-house dedicated to data and analytics like this before. Yeah, we have had data people before, but not to this extent and not this comprehensive. We have been outsourcing it for a while. We're buying in a lot of the data in order to do this. So stories about us also getting data in from bookies, from gambling businesses to supplement the stuff that we're using, like the why scout and some of the other kind of well-known analytics packages. That's not surprising. Both Bryton and Brentford use gambling data. So yeah, that's not surprising. I think we're trying to model ourselves on some of their operations. Leith is recruiting quite heavily, so it's quite a lot of adverse health for people to join his department at the moment. Let's just before we get into what this all means in terms of how we operated in the transfer market and indeed player acquisitions and getting rid of as well in all manner of playing stuff. Before we get into that, let's just address Simon Davies and his Scalding and Jack Chapman, where they fit in on what their current roles are. So Simon Davies is Academy director. He was promoted to that role after Dean Rastrix exit in December of last year. He joined us in the summer of 2022 as head of methodology. He previously worked, I mean, we covered this a little while ago, didn't we, because he was on Off the Shelf, the Spurs podcast, which both you and I watch and we were really impressed with him, weren't we, on that? So he previously worked at Man City's Academy for eight years and then under 23 he's assistant under Patrick Vieira and then he became the coach of the under 23s at Man City. He left city to become Vincent Company's assistant at Andalek and so he joined us from Andalek. And then famously he kept in Manchester United's famous 1992 FA Youth Cup winning side which had all of their Fergies, fletchlings, or whatever you want to call them. So Andy Scalding is head of football strategy, so basically he's in charge of loans and contracts with youth team players. So before that he was assistant performance director, but had similar responsibilities, but there's been a little bit of moving around here, Simon Davis. When Alfie Devine went to Portvail last season, Portvail credited Simon Davis saying how instrumental he was in that deal. So I think there's been a little bit of movement between those roles since. Andy Scalding was Chief Scout Rangers before joining us. So yeah, basically he's managing our loans. I think one of the things we've seen is actually we've been a lot more proactive with our loans over the last few years. So yeah, when we ended, Scarlett Sloane at Ipswich and Devine's at Portvail and Centre Fine on to Plymouth, that's all since Scalding's moved into his, yeah, cancelling those since Scalding's been in his new role. So yeah. And then Jack Chapman again, who we spoke about a couple of weeks ago, he's going to be head of Academy recruitment. So yeah, head of signing players for the Academy and he's done a similar role at Southampton before those are similar roles, Swansea. Not yet. Just because the way that I assimilate information like this about so many people and so many different departments, I'm going to ask you to evaluate the map that I've literally drawn in my head. In your head. Imagine it as a piece of paper and tell me if I've got the connections right for how this system actually works. So if you've got the room at the end of the corridor, the big room is Scott Mumm and then you've got another room where Johann Langer, Rob McKenzie and Frederick Leath all kind of operate and then you've got another room where Simon Davies and Andy Scalding and Jack Chapman sit. And so if there's any, if Scott Mumm wants to know what's happening in terms of the assimilation of data and targets and so forth, he goes to Johann Langer's room and he'll consult with McKenzie and Leath and another Langer. If it's to do with what's happening with our youth system, it'll be to Simon Davies and Andy Scalding. Is that roughly, am I getting that right? And then if Angeposter Cogley rocks up one day and says, right, I need to run down on what's happening with the youth, I need to run down on what's happening with our targets like my weekly meeting. Is it then going to be Johann Langer who says, well I've had a word with such and such, or will they all get together in the canteen, the heads of each department and sit down and have coffee and share information? Kind of. So Rob McKenzie heads up, a scouting department, Frederick Leath heads up our analytics department or a data department, they report into Langer who in turn reports into Munn and then the academy side are reporting into Munn, so the other ones who said reporting into Munn. So in terms of how it's operating, it looks like it's kind of scouting first rather than data first, so McKenzie's team will identify players that suit what Angeposter wants and then Leath will, or Leath, sorry, will look at the data and then McKenzie, Leath, Ang, Lang and Munn will make decisions. Got it. And Levy signs the checks. So that's the structure. And then when you're looking to determine whether, you know, a World Langer goes on loan or whether he's ready for maybe an enlarged Europa League squad, so on and so forth, it'll be Davis. Davis will sit with him. Yes, David's scalding an edge basically I think. Is Lang involved in that conversation? He stays out of that, but Munn will be in the room having a coffee and listening in as well, right? Because I mean, it's under general. I doubt he's too interested in what's happening between youth to the team. He's probably looking, taking a higher level for you. I doubt he's involved in those individual decisions. Langer probably is. Gotcha. Okay. So that would be, so Davis and scalding would get to get, they will report to Ang on what players are ready to make those moves and what they would recommend for a loan. Got it. Okay. Yeah. It just helps. I mean, because one of the things when you've got so many people like that, sometimes, you know, their titles, you know, should be descriptive enough, but it quite simply is a case. Well, who has coffee with who? Yeah. And I think Davis scalding and Chapman particularly is probably a little opaque from the outside. Yeah. Yeah. And it's important to suppose this is where the, you know, the whole, the way the football club is directed in terms of style is so important. There's such a, such a vital thing to get right from top to bottom. When we saw that with the youth set up this year, winning trophy is playing in the same style that the first thing playing, but it's so important because if you've got these various departments between scalding and between youth, you know, you at least want to all be on the same page. And I think that brings us actually quite nicely into the whole concept of how it feels like we're changing in a way that, you know, the way that we work. And again, I'm going to put something forward and you tell me if it resonates with what you know to make sense. It would appear to me, looking from the outside that, you know, Levy has finally, you know, probably got what he really wants, which is a system that relies very much on information rather than instinct to make, you know, a choice on what player you buy. I presume that this is to try and negate the soldados and endon bellies of this world, maybe being signed, maybe for reasons beyond, you know, those which make immediate sense. Does that sound somewhat like what we're seeing here? I mean, I think what we're seeing here is us operating like a club of the size we are now. And I think, you know, you can't have a situation where you've got kind of three or four people out scouting and, you know, you're outsourcing your data. And, you know, I think we were, we were operating like a club would have done, you know, 10, 15 years ago, and we've seen a very, very dramatic kind of professionalization of the operation. And we're, we're now acting in a way that all of the, you know, really big, effective clubs are actually, actually quite a lot of the small, effective clubs. You know, I said about Brentford and Brighton and Iran, you know, they've been, you know, operating a very, very kind of similar approach and it's been very, very successful for them. So yeah, I think we've professionalised it. I think, you know, I think you've got a point when you say this is kind of what Levy wants in that, you know, he's always been very keen on having a director of football and having that, that split and, you know, he was one of the first in the English game to embrace that kind of structure. And he's had kind of mixed results with it. What I would say I think is one of the differences we've got here is we don't appear to have eager tests. I mean, Langer seems quite a shy man, he's done, I think one or two interviews since he's taken the role, months done, a couple of interviews mainly in the Australian media. And I quite like that. I quite like the fact that, you know, they don't want to do everything in the glare of publicity. They're, you know, they're not massively visible and, you know, I know we all kind of joked about Para-Teachy being on his phone all the time and being spotted everywhere and doing selfies with the fans and stuff, but it's probably better just doing it a bit quietly and out of everyone's gaze, isn't it? I think so. I mean, I think another thing that I'm drawing a conclusion of, which is never a safe thing to do in front of you, but one conclusion I am coming to is that we may actually be entering an era of the less emotionally minded decisions when it comes to transfers versus the more information-based transfers. I mean, and again, that's not to suggest that there wasn't due diligence done in the past. Obviously, there has been, I mean, there would be absurd to suggest not, but perhaps there have been occasions. We discussed this recently where, you know, the likes of and Don Bellet and so on, maybe were bought at that moment because there was an emotional pendulum that was swinging and it just happened to swing in a way that it was felt while this would be good for the club. I mean, are we, do we think that we should get used to seeing not necessarily the players that we would necessarily rush out to get printed on the back of our shirts if you buy them, which I do, you know, this season, but, you know, perhaps in 18 months are going to be names that you will have on the back of your shirts because the data proved to be correct. I don't think data necessarily means that you're picking players who aren't going to make an immediate impact. I don't think it means that. I mean, obviously, you're trying to look for value in the market, but, I mean, all clubs are trying to do that. Even if you're just using conventional scouts, you're still trying to do that and, you know, you might use a different route to get to the same point, but that's always been our objective. I think what it means is that it's easier to come up with, you know, if Andrew says, "I want a player like this," then it makes it a lot easier for you to come up with four or five who have got a similar profile, have a look at them, you know, trying to work out, you know, whether they offer what Andrew is looking for, and then you can go to him with a range of options and say, "Well, you know, who do you like out of this? What's your preference?" You know, we'll rank these one, two, and three, and if we don't get one, we can move on to two, we can move on to three, we can go down to this list, but at the end of it, we know that we've filled that gap in the side. Yes, again, I'm sure, you know, that happens with traditional scouting, but you can cast the net a lot wider because you can crunch the numbers a lot quicker than you can go around games or watch videos of players. You can narrow that list down a lot quicker that way. So yeah, I don't think it necessarily means that we're looking at players who are going to be hits in two or three seasons rather than the first season, although there will be signings like that as well. There always have been. Yeah. I think there's something that you said that was very, very interesting and is a really good point of discussion to get into for a few minutes, and you said to me that you said this is how a big club operates. When you have the size of club that we have, you don't just have a few people out there here and there. I think the average perception of how big club operates is that they go and fucking throw down $100 billion for Declan Rice because you need a number six, or that they go and you know, it's not a number six, it would be a stupid thing to do. He said, "Williams is $80 billion. Well, we need a player of that dynamics. Let's do it. Let's throw the money down." But I mean, I think it's well worth just redefining what big clubs do. And I mean, I'm sure you'll join me in this and, you know, we talk about Manchester City. I mean, I think probably the most outrageous purchase I've ever made was Jack Greilich for $100 million, but they're actually not known for that sort of thing. Maybe they don't have to be, but they're also a club that have high analytics. Am I correct? I mean, let's break down exactly, you know, it's all behaving responsibly and within a structure, right? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think, you know, if your model, if your model of a big club is Real Madrid, then probably we're, you know, we're not facing it in the right place, are we? Right. Exactly. And, you know, I mean, you know, if you, I think probably Liverpool, I would have said it would probably be a better benchmark for what we're looking to do. And they've had a very, very smart backroom team there for a while and have been pretty astute and actually when kind of their transfers have got a bit worse, I think it's when clubs have more involvement in it rather than less. So yeah, but I mean, you know, in terms of a man's city, you know, I don't know, I mean, they do make big big minds on the best example. Sorry. It might not have been the best example. But I'm saying man's city usually, I mean, probably because they can afford to pay the wages and so thus maybe takes them out of logical conversation in this particular topic. But just because we're here, I mean, they, they rarely spent more than like 50 million on the player. I mean, they, they, they're, they're pretty conservative with their spending overall. I always felt the greenish signing was sort of a, that was about as emotional as signings I ever saw them made. And that was off the back of a fruitless pursuit of Harry Kane, right? So, but yeah, I mean, I think point is, is wonderful. Yeah. I mean, yeah, I mean, I think if you look at, you know, if you compare cities to Man United or a club who look to have virtually no strategy whatsoever and just splash cash, then, you know, Man United are far, you know, massively outspending them. So yeah, I think it's just about trying to take a longer-term view of it, saying these are the gaps in the squad. You know, this is the kind of profile that the manager wants in order to fit it. And you know, these are the players who can fill that. You know, when we saw that last summer where, you know, in a number of positions, the, you know, the player that we were initially pursuing, either the price wasn't right or the player wasn't interested, or, you know, for whatever reason, and we moved on. And you know, we brought in an alternative who was, you know, every bit as good, if not better than, you know, the first target on the list. So, you know, although the structure wasn't, you know, fully in place last summer, and it was a bit more haphazard, you know, we have seen us moving into that direction. Yeah. I mean, it's always a fascinating discussion, isn't it? Because, you know, we, it sort of touches on last week, again, you know, you look at some of our biggest signings, quote, unquote, financially, they really haven't worked out. As a matter of fact, the greatest range of success we've had in signings has been in that sort of low to mid-range, you know, players that were scouted. I mean, you look at Deli Alley, who is obviously, there was plenty of good scouting and information gone into him. And then you, you know, fast forward now, we've got Lucas Bergwald, who, look, I haven't seen enough of to make a comment, but what little I've seen, it's like cranky. There looks to be a fantastic player there, and it feels like that's an area that we've, we sort of have operated in with the best success. And so maybe this setup, which appears designed to, you know, to calibrate that look to a higher level, is absolutely the right one for us. I mean, I, yeah, I mean, I'd ignore the price, the price paid, because, you know, the fee isn't a metric in its own right, and, you know, the fact that we've, you know, we haven't had success there. I don't think, I don't think that's, you know, if the right player came along with the right, you know, a high price, then, you know, we're convinced they're the right player, then, of course, we should sign them. So yeah, I don't think that's necessarily, necessarily relevant. I mean, Bergwald, you know, was being chased by, you know, Barcelona. We'd be Barcelona's signature, so it's not as if he was, he was low profile. And you know, bizarrely, I think this is one that Langer had been, had been watching. So you know, maybe this isn't data, data driven, you know, great example of data driven in that this might be a bit more old school in approach, but yeah, it might be a context one. I don't know. We will see. But ultimately, what we can sort of conclude is that, you know, whatever series of targets we're going after, we can see with the new setup that, you know, the numbers or the data. And it's not just numbers, as you say, there'll be all sorts of things included in that, you know, information, the message on the most target. The most important metric, obviously, is the Ange telephone call. That's the one that's, that's the most important of all. Yeah. Yeah. Of course. Yeah. Before he gets to that telephone call, he will have packets of very, very good data in front of him to work from. And that's essentially what we can say is changed. As you said, just to clarify for people, I think, you know, in the past, I mean, I don't know if Fabio, I'm sure Fabio had data. I mean, I'm sure, but let's face it, he had a book of context, didn't he, really? So. I think he, I think he had a list of players that he's signed for Juventus and was somewhere else now. I mean, that's, yeah, I don't think he was, he was massively kind of driven by data. I think he was a, yeah, he was a contact. He was more of the kind of wheeler dealer type and, you know, that worked very well for us. He bought in a number of really good players and, you know, even players that we were signing last summer. I mean, Dragashan was, is one that he's got links with, you know, and Vic, although I think he was kind of a adrenaline at signing, he's certainly, you know, a player he identified before. So, you know, we've done pretty well out of that. I don't think that there's, there's necessarily issue with, you know, more traditional approach, but you just want to back that up with data and kind of do, do, do due diligence and go through that. And I think, you know, we are, we were doing that, we were doing that last summer as well. Yeah. I mean, as you said, you know, it's, it's how in this era and the modern era, a big club should behave, these are investments and there's, you know, money being spent. And you know, and this is increasingly not just in football, but it's increasing the data driven world. So it would be foolish to ignore it and it would be certainly irresponsible not to try and assimilate it further into your business. So it can only be a positive move that being said, I have to say, I, I chuckle at the thought of how I would operate if I was, it would be, it would be a couple of coffees and a handshake in what's the body language? How do you feel? How do you feel? I like your vibe. You look, you feel like a Tottenham player. That's why I'll never get close to that job. I'm sure, I'm sure you could come up with a range of metrics that measured a Tottenham player. I'm sure you can do it. That's a challenge. I could as well, but I could unfortunately and don't be ticked a lot of those boxes. Yeah. I don't know what, I don't know, X, X, S, is that expected SaaS? There you go. I like that. He's accelerating. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I like, I expected in citizens. In citizens. Yeah. Expected in citizens rating. Oh, that's, that's a great, who would you identify more with? Do you think you, do you think you'd be more of a langer or, well, this is a, this is not a fair question. Nice one. Let's just frame it. I would be, I would definitely be as much as I, I hate to be. Don Fabio. You're of a Don Fabio and you're probably more of a langer, right? Would that be fair to say, do you think? Yeah, I mean, I've, I've run data analytics teams, so, you know, and I, and I've had coffees with famous people all over the world, so, but we work together, you see. Yeah. We, we make it work. But, you know, if you look at, if you look at, you know, this setup, there, you know, there is, there is both there. There is both. Yeah. And it's, you know, you want both, you know, I don't think anyone's suggesting that you just sign players off the numbers. Yeah. And I'm sure that you're going to get both sides of this setup, you know, both left and potential side, you know, identifying players. And I'm sure that, you know, if this, if this setup is functioning properly, then that should be, you know, it should be an operation where anyone can bring a player to the table. And then the other side can say, yeah, we had a look at him, but actually, you know, we're, you know, we're hearing that actually there's a bit of an issue with this or, you know, you know, what have you, you know, you want that intelligence, you know, and my understanding is that we've got quite, you know, there's still quite a big network of, of, of scouts. And you know, we're trying, you know, we, you know, you've read a list at the beginning way. We've got kind of six or seven who've left. So we are trying to backfill that. We are bringing new people in. It's going to grow. Yeah. And I don't think it's a bad idea that you've got new people coming in, new people with new ideas. You know, we've got a lot of people there, you know, that list you read out earlier on this people there have been around since Harry Redneck's time at the club. And you know, you need a bit of freshness. Yeah. And I think this also pertains very much to what you said about lack of ego, you know, for systems like this to work properly that, you know, ego has to be a minimum. Obviously, there'll be a little bit everyone brings a little bit of professional pride to that, to their position you should do, but there is a difference between professional pride and ego. And I think you're right. It's nice to see that we don't have, you know, these raging egos as far as we know. And you're absolutely right that the blend is going, I have to ask this as a final question. It's not on our list. Do you think he's still lurking in the background somewhere, even though he officially shouldn't with his temperature, you know, in one hand and his, and his, and his, and his phone in the other? I'm sure he's at the end of the phone if not nothing else. I don't think he's been spotted recently, has he? But, yeah, I'm sure there's still conversations going on. If he's got someone and they're useful, then, yeah, why not? I mean, throw a name into the mix, but I'd also imagine that Langer is not going to want the last person hanging around and kind of getting in, you know, leave his ear and kind of undermining him. So you'd hope that, you know, it's not too frequent, but yeah, I think if he spotted someone or he was aware that someone was available, then you'd hope it passed it on. We have got a question here, Steph, about the benefits and kind of the drawbacks of this. I think it is worth touching on that briefly, because I think, you know, what we should have with this is also stability, because, you know, previously when you got paratichae there, if he goes, then you start from scratch, you know, that's kind of what we've got. We've gone over it over the last year, you know, and Gabbinini kind of had to step up last summer with Angin and, you know, fill in there. But with this kind of more extensive setup, what you'd hope is that it's less reliant on individuals, and you've got teams behind them. If someone goes, someone else can come in, and that means that the work should be able to continue. So we shouldn't be so susceptible to individuals leaving, and, you know, this work can continue, and that should help us. And I suppose the drawback is that there's quite a lot of links in this chain, and the risk is, is that we're a bit of slow to react sometimes, that that might be a risk with this setup, because, you know, I don't know, Mackenzie spots a player, and he's got to give the name to Leth, and Leth gets these guys to run the data over it, and they come up with a report, and, you know, what have you, and then they sit down with Langer, and those guys, and Angin, to cast the eye over it, and they say, you know, they do that, and then they speak to Mun, and say, well, Mun, you know, Scott, we think he's worth, you know, $25 million, and, you know, that goes backwards and forwards, and then we need Levy to sign it off at the end. The risk is, is that someone else has nipped in in the meantime, and signed it whilst, you know, they may, you know, while they're having coffee stuff and talking about it. Your hope, what you hope is that, you know, maybe Mackenzie and Leth become trusted to play a QT type, you know, 4-D-R diagonal from front to back, from back to front, into the channel, and quickly gets in on goal rather than always, you know, keep possession. I'm sure they'll work assistant to occasionally, you know, jumpstart, right? I mean, that's going to happen. What you'd hope, what you'd hope is that all of this is done before the window opens, and that they've done extensive work on where the gaps are, who are the targets, they've got all that laid out, all of those conversations are quietly going on in the background at the moment, and then once those players, you know, have come back from international tournaments and all the rest of it, we're ready to pull the trigger and get going on all of them. That's what you'd hope. That's perfect. You raise a great point, you know, as many years as we've been watching football, and still, I think some of us naively, while I speak for myself, still think, you know, "Well, why don't they go after that guy?" Well, of course, you know, these targets and discussions will have been had, you know, six months ago. I mean, they've probably been talking about this summer in January, and maybe evaluating not to go for certain plays in January, because they're going to go for others in the summer. So, I mean, to your point, a lot of the work has probably already been done, and, you know, it's one thing to note as well, just because that, you know, you're not seeing, you know, your favorite in the nose or, you know, gossip mongers or whatever, you know, coming up with credible links left and right. We shouldn't assume that no work has been done. There's probably been loads of work done, and so we know. And the reason why they're not coming up with names is, again, because we've said that there's a lot tighter ship now than we've seen in the past, and there's less leaking going on. And it's a more professional, it's a more professional operation. So, yeah. I'll have to. Yeah. Go on. Sorry. No, I was going to say, it's interesting kind of all the way back to when we were talking about the heroes, and you're saying, I spotted this player, I spotted that player, and what have you. And of course, you know, the, the, the, the stake that clubs always used to make was signing players off the back of a good international tournament, they would dog share as soon as the leagues started, because they'd hit a hot streak, and obviously international football isn't as good as, as the top leagues. So, yeah. Yeah. Again, I hope, I hope they're not paying too much attention to the heroes, and I hope they're in. Oh, as well. That's a fans game. That is a fans game. You're absolutely right. That's a fans game. I have to say, by the way, and, and, you know, I'm glad we had this conversation. I think it's, it's, it's helpful to talk it through and to sort of understand, you know, where we're going, what we're doing, and, and, and how it's happening. But if Fabio Peritichia ever writes a tell or book, I'll be there. I have to be honest, and Frederick left less so, I think Frederick left less so, although you never know, you never know, you should never, never judge a book by its cover. Maybe that's a good place to tie off the conversation. Thanks, mate. That was very good. Cheers. We'll be back next week and every week throughout the summer to bring you an hour plus a spurs natter. Here's our tactical shape for you. If you like the pod, we want you to tell your best mates to tell their best mates to each go to their various towns and share us on social media and leave a lovely review. That's how we will grow as a pod, or a club in this case, or a pod, I don't know, my metaphors are getting messy. Just say you love us on social media, please, because you know you do, and it's helping us grow, and we're really grateful. So thanks for joining us, and we will see you next week. Bye. [MUSIC] [MUSIC] [MUSIC] [MUSIC]