Coffee House Shots
The surprises in Starmer's cabinet
If you don't subscribe to The Spectator now is the perfect time to give us a try. We're having an election time offer, three pounds for three months, that's a pretty good deal, magazine, digital access and to top it off you get a free mug with Morten Morland's election artwork. So to get the software go to spectator.co.uk/mug. Hello and welcome to Coffee House Shots, Spectator's Daily Politics podcast. I'm Cindy Yu and I'm joined today by Katie Bors and Times columnist Patrick Maguire, who's currently writing a book about Kia Starmer's rights. Well, that has now happened. Kia Starmer is in his first 24 hours as being Prime Minister, he has appointed his cabinet and held a first meeting with them. Kia tell us about these first 24 hours and the appointments themselves. In some ways, I think it's been, parts of this have been predictable. So for example, I think Kia Starmer giving what he tried to be quite a reassuring speech outside 10 Downing Stream and a speech that yes, Labour have won, you know, a very large majority, potentially, you know, something doesn't happen very often and may not happen again for some time. But of course, lots of voters did not vote for Labour and you had Labour politicians feeling threats to them in some areas. So you had a very positive night for Labour, but also they lost Stang and Devaner to the Greens. They lost Jonathan Ashworth in Independent. They nearly lost their Golden Boy, where Streeting to an Independent. So I think there's lots of positivity and I think they're thrilled at the majority they have to work with for the next five years and the mandate they're going to take from that. But I think there's also a sense that if you look at the rise of reform, if you look at some of the independence, there is, you know, it's not all smooth sailing and there are some lessons and some warnings within those results. And I think his starness speech, which was trying to reach out saying he didn't vote for me, I'll work particularly hard for you. Now, it's not particularly controversial thing to say, but I think just the way he tacked himself as trying to bring back trust to politics and also reach across the divide was, as we expect, and I think words are delivered. Then you get to his first cabinet and we already knew Angela Reyna would be his deputy. She's also elected by the membership we need to remember. Does not happen in the Tory party. And therefore, is in many ways, unsacable. You can move the housing brief from her. You have, if you dare, we know it was quite tricky last time. Keir Starva tried to move her briefs. She ended up more than she started with. But, you know, she is always going to be his deputy unless you went back to the membership. So she has a very powerful position, deputy prime minister, as well as the housing brief. Rachel Reeves, we knew was going to be chancellor if Keir Starva was elected. She is the first female chancellor, of course, for those of you want to know more about Rachel Reeves, please read my interview of her this week, where she talks about smashing urinals. Then we get to David Lammy, Foreign Secretary. Now, there have been repeated rumors. David Lammy might be moved off to make way for someone such as David Miliband. Peter Mandel, some of the latest rumors to go around, and then also Douglas Alexander, who has just been elected in my parents' seat of Uslovian. That has not happened. I think the revamped David Lammy operation whereby his team have tried to smooth past some of the perhaps less diplomatic things he has said over the years before he had the foreign brief, whether on Trump and white supremacy or comments on Brexit. They've done a good job, I think, of trying to build ties and show he wants to be states when then can be serious and he's stayed in his role. And then a vet Cooper, we expect it to be home secretary. So, the most senior positions in this cabinet are expected, and therefore, I think the more intriguing positions are, for example, whether a vacancy is because at Labour, politicians unexpectedly lost their seats, all where Kistama has brought in professionals from outside and made them peers and put them in new briefs. Patrick, tell us about those certainly more surprising ones. Yes, so the two most interesting appointments Kistama made, and there were some interesting ones he didn't make, which I'll get on to in a moment, were Patrick Valance, obviously the former chief scientific adviser who'll be a science minister, he is the first and presumably not the last government appointment from the Tony Blair Institute, as well as his government experience. And then, of course, you have James Timson, the owner of Timson's brother of the former Tory minister, Edward Timson, as prisons minister. Now, why is that interesting? Well, because Shabana Mahmood, the justice secretary and Evette Cooper, the home secretary, tried to neutralise Labour's historic weakness on crime and law and order by talking very tough, but James Timson is a businessman and a social campaigner whose emphasis is always on rehabilitation, his shops hire ex-prisoners, and he talks endlessly about what good employees they make. So that sort of goes to show that this government may communicate one message, but is very conscious of the need to deliver as well. And given that coming down the tracks, as Katie was the first to write in the Times a few months ago, there is a prisons crisis looming, Shabana Mahmood will have to decide who to release some of them quite dangerous criminals. James Timson is an interesting person to have at your right hand. Richard Herner, too, a Casey whose worked with Starmer in the past, advised the Labour Party as attorney general, also very telling that Kia Starmer should appoint a lawyer friend to that cabinet brief. And who did it come at the expense of? It came at the expense of Emily Thornberry, who obviously was at Starmer's side in Jeremy Corbyn's shadow cabinet as they were trying to make the case for a more pro-remain position. Who else wasn't around the top table when Kia Starmer's cabinet met for the first time this morning, Nick Thomas Simmons, one of his first friends in politics, when he was appointed when he was elected as an MP rather in 2015, his first shadow home secretary in 2020. Analyze Dodds, his first Shabana Chancellor, was around the cabinet table, albeit as Minister for development, not a full cabinet post. So it's really interesting how Kia Starmer is dispensing with people he's known for a long time in politics and putting in people he obviously believes can do the jobs, can do important jobs, can deliver reform of public services and key economic briefs in the respect of Patrick Valens at the expense of what you might say were politically or personally, personally wise appointments, right? You don't necessarily want to make enemies of Emily Thornberry or Nick Thomas Simmons if indeed he doesn't get a big job around the top table of this government. But it's very revealing as to the sort of prime minister in the sort of untypical politician that Kia Starmer is. And I think it's interesting on that note that Tangham debonair was lost her seat to the Greens so there was a vacancy for culture secretary. Now there had been a room at Jonathan Ashworth might try and get the vacancy for culture secretary. Of course the attempt or the consideration was killed in the early hours of Friday when Jonathan Ashworth by just a couple of hundred votes lost his seat to independent and related to Israel Palestine you know unhappiness over Kia Starmer's position. And it meant that the very coveted job and I think you know within labor circles and culture sector is a bit like how defense secretary scene of inventory circles is a job so many of them see as their dream job. You had Lisa Nandi come back now Lisa Nandi has been the subject of some quite negative briefing if you think over the years for labor and she was initially shadow foreign secretary and then there was a so dissent really in terms of the jobs of every reshuff of became a bit junior. It was from you know the shadow foreign office to I think shadow leveling up then she's moved aside to make way for Angela Rayner then it was international development department that no longer existed. And now I think to get that brief does suggest that you know there's a way back for some of those labor politicians who perhaps fall out of favor for whatever reason with you know some I was the team and you know if you you know perhaps is overstating it but I think it's just interesting on negative briefing you know that she has now been given quite the coveted job and it's going to be having a central and Kia Starmer's government which it was a bit full circle really to how it started when he became the leader of opposition. Yeah and you'll remember Katie that when Lisa Nandi was demoted in that reshuffle I think he was in September last year her allies brief that she was given the call you know do you want to be shadow development minister it's not a full shadow cabinet post but you'll get to come to meetings and the subtext of that offer was very much you know this is so insulting an appointment that we think you'll reject it and as you say it's quite a remarkable comeback for Lisa Nandi to be given a full cabinet role and one as you say that so many labor MPs covet so it does go to show that you can despite Kia Starmer's reputation for a man who holds grudges and holds his colleagues to very high standards and if they if they don't meet them they are effectively unperson and he's very ruthless but there is actually a way back if you show loyalty and work hard which is what Lisa Nandi has done in countless interviews and over the course of the over the course of the the war in Gaza. And Patrick what do you think is going to happen to these fallen labor soldiers who thought they were about to get wrong cabinet jobs. There's lots of rumors of potential peerages with anger and debonair, Jonathan Ashworth. Do you think that Kia Starmer will just be too busy now moving on with his government because in terms of whipping operation I suspect that if your parliamentary party is as large as this labor parliamentary party is you can't give that many job to you know members of the second house in terms of parliamentary management and he clearly is making a choice to bring in where you are going to have Lord's ministers. Those with a lot of experience coming from outside. Yeah it's interesting so I was at Kia Starmer's count overnight on Thursday and I was on a balcony at Camden Council's HQ looking behind the stage as we were awaiting the result and who did I see behind there but Baroness Casey, Louise Casey, the former Whitehall troubleshooter crossbench peer. Now obviously she has said a few times actually over the past year or so that she wants to work with the Labor Government but there she was wearing a labor rosette and I thought you know that is a classic Kia Starmer appointment. Someone who has a track record of getting things done and I think he'll put a premium on that over of this person is an influential person in this faction of the PLP so I have to give them a job so you're right it does make it quite difficult. As for people like Nick Thomas Simmons and Emily Thornberry look I'm sure they will get important ministerial jobs even if they don't end up attending cabinet so I think as disappointing person is it will be for those people it will be fine but it's an interesting political tension as you say and this is something whips have been aware of for some time this idea that look you know we are going to have to disappoint people we are going to only be able to appoint I think it's 80 something ministers in the Commons that's not very many people at all and it does mean as we've already seen from the cabinet appointments some people who have been working and waiting expectantly for the day that labor finally get into government will find that not that they're just not in the cabinet that they don't have ministerial jobs at all you know maybe they'll bite a few people off with the chairmanship of select committees and whip labor MPs to support them in those elections but again there's not that many of those sides so it's going to be really really tricky and finally Patrick in the last years of the Tory government we were all obsessed with the cabinet drama of between the different personalities of big beasts as it were who do you think could be the troublemakers in this cabinet oh that's a really good question look I think that for the time being you will see impeccable loyalty a message discipline from Kia Starba's cabinet and for one point attention and I'm not necessarily sure I would call this person a troublemaker because they've been very loyal they've been there since day one but an interesting point of tension given how many Scottish labor MPs there are and there are there are obviously holly re-election 2026s how does Ian Murray manage the politics of 37 Scottish labor MPs a Scottish labor leader who again very loyal to the project very close to Kia Starba but is going to have to try and put a positive gloss on whatever a labor government what might very quickly become a very unpopular labor government that isn't able to do conventionally social democratic things does in the coming days and weeks you know how do they manage the politics of the big Scottish block of MPs that is going to be that is going to be very very tricky indeed I think so I think that's one to watch Katie I think Edmond the Ben will be interesting just in the sense that he is clearly one of the shadow cabinet members with their own mind he has the authority of being a former leader he has his own personal relationship with Kia Starba much of the upset of some of the former blur rights and he has huge agenda one that one could argue is perhaps near impossible or more politely very challenging to get done in the time allowed when it comes to the 2030 power grid and we already saw you know with the 28 billion you'd talk behind the scene what would happen in the end it went but I think having a personal relationship with the premier combined with the department and having your own worldview does just mean that you know I think there's some allies of Edmond the Ben eyes I spoke into who think that he could be a bit of a Michael Gove in the equivalent in this government in terms of a reforming minister who has their own agenda but everything back to the early days of David Cameron's government when he had Michael Gove to be fair Michael Gove had Dominic Cummings I don't think the em of the venture yet has his own Dominic Cummings but you know you have to smash a few eggs to make an omelette Katie and Patrick thanks very much and thank you very much for listening to this podcast and if you enjoy coffeehouse shots you can come watch us talk live next week it's Thursday at the Emmanuel Center in London you can get ticket at spectator.co.uk/live that's July 11th Thursday [Music]